thank god we have player that allow necromancer in end game content

[Dace.8173]

> @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > @"Farkon.2170" said:

> > > It's really hard to play my favorite class (reaper) in all forms of the game. They suck at pvp, they suck at raiding, they suck at fractals. I always get called out for being a Reaper if I manage to get into a raid or fractal and something goes wrong. It's like playing Shaman all over again in WoW.

> >

> > Really? They suck at PvP. Really?

>

> Play 1 with out a pocket healer and watch it drop like a rock

 

That doesn't mean it sucks at PvP. PvP is a **TEAM** game. Now, Reaper and Scourge can actually win matches without a pocket healer. They just do better with one. However, even having a pocket healer it doesn't remove that they are actually a strong profession in PvP for folks who know what they are doing. In a team game some the high DPS Mirage or Holosmith isn't going to win the game alone and through pure DPS power. Games are won by maintaining control of nodes. People tend to focus on the DPS aspect, the ability to kill other people, but don't spend enough time recognizing the support aspects, the ability to keep people away from a node or to make them holding a node painful so that other people can swoop in for the kill. A Firebrand healing a Scourge makes for a powerful combo and allows for the **TEAM** to win the match. I've won matches without gaining a single kill but still get top score in offense or defense.

 

> @"Farkon.2170" said:

> > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > buff the sustain and you have a class that's more op than mesmer

>

> I disagree.

>

>

 

You're free to disagree but several individuals have already outlined how you are wrong on the matter. I've even given you a build that has been demonstrated to work. So there is proof that it can be done since there is video footage of it being done.

 

[Obtena.7952]

Just another thought ... Let's assume Anet is targeting meta DPS balance ... what would anyone's advice be to the OP if that was the case? Sit around and make complain threads until it happens? How long does anyone here think that's going to be? Considering the slow/semi-random approach, I would say it could either happen tomorrow, or it could be years. Either way, the advice given to the OP, for everyone for that matter, remains the same, for any class they play

 

_Figure out how to team with the class you play, because at any time, it could become or stop being meta._

 

He claims I'm making the thread about him; I'm not. I'm making about what is REAL about the game. He just happens to fall into the real part of ignoring the game development history; for what reason I can't say.

 

 

[Farkon.2170]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > > @"Farkon.2170" said:

> > > > It's really hard to play my favorite class (reaper) in all forms of the game. They suck at pvp, they suck at raiding, they suck at fractals. I always get called out for being a Reaper if I manage to get into a raid or fractal and something goes wrong. It's like playing Shaman all over again in WoW.

> > >

> > > Really? They suck at PvP. Really?

> >

> > Play 1 with out a pocket healer and watch it drop like a rock

>

> That doesn't mean it sucks at PvP. PvP is a **TEAM** game. Now, Reaper and Scourge can actually win matches without a pocket healer. They just do better with one. However, even having a pocket healer it doesn't remove that they are actually a strong profession in PvP for folks who know what they are doing. In a team game some the high DPS Mirage or Holosmith isn't going to win the game alone and through pure DPS power. Games are won by maintaining control of nodes. People tend to focus on the DPS aspect, the ability to kill other people, but don't spend enough time recognizing the support aspects, the ability to keep people away from a node or to make them holding a node painful so that other people can swoop in for the kill. A Firebrand healing a Scourge makes for a powerful combo and allows for the **TEAM** to win the match. I've won matches without gaining a single kill but still get top score in offense or defense.

>

> > @"Farkon.2170" said:

> > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > buff the sustain and you have a class that's more op than mesmer

> >

> > I disagree.

> >

> >

>

> You're free to disagree but several individuals have already outlined how you are wrong on the matter. I've even given you a build that has been demonstrated to work. So there is proof that it can be done since there is video footage of it being done.

>

 

What are you talking about? My 0-16 topic? I've gone much further with Mirage almost effortlessly.

 

I play Reaper more then Mirage, and I can't even get to plat with Reaper, why? Because the class is weak, the spec is weak, and everything counters the class.

I'm disagreeing to the point that buffing the sustain of a Reaper would make it more powerful then a Mirage sine it doesn't fix the major problems of Necro at it's core.

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"Farkon.2170" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > @"Sephylon.4938" said:

> > > > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > > > > @"Farkon.2170" said:

> > > > > It's really hard to play my favorite class (reaper) in all forms of the game. They suck at pvp, they suck at raiding, they suck at fractals. I always get called out for being a Reaper if I manage to get into a raid or fractal and something goes wrong. It's like playing Shaman all over again in WoW.

> > > >

> > > > Really? They suck at PvP. Really?

> > >

> > > Play 1 with out a pocket healer and watch it drop like a rock

> >

> > That doesn't mean it sucks at PvP. PvP is a **TEAM** game. Now, Reaper and Scourge can actually win matches without a pocket healer. They just do better with one. However, even having a pocket healer it doesn't remove that they are actually a strong profession in PvP for folks who know what they are doing. In a team game some the high DPS Mirage or Holosmith isn't going to win the game alone and through pure DPS power. Games are won by maintaining control of nodes. People tend to focus on the DPS aspect, the ability to kill other people, but don't spend enough time recognizing the support aspects, the ability to keep people away from a node or to make them holding a node painful so that other people can swoop in for the kill. A Firebrand healing a Scourge makes for a powerful combo and allows for the **TEAM** to win the match. I've won matches without gaining a single kill but still get top score in offense or defense.

> >

> > > @"Farkon.2170" said:

> > > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > buff the sustain and you have a class that's more op than mesmer

> > >

> > > I disagree.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > You're free to disagree but several individuals have already outlined how you are wrong on the matter. I've even given you a build that has been demonstrated to work. So there is proof that it can be done since there is video footage of it being done.

> >

>

> What are you talking about? My 0-16 topic? I've gone much further with Mirage almost effortlessly.

>

> I play Reaper more then Mirage, and I can't even get to plat with Reaper, why?

Because you are bad and that been pointed so many times... ?

[Axl.8924]

>> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > > **words mean nothing without actions i hope you learn this at least**

> > > > >

> > > > > So true ... you should take your own advice: What actions has Anet done in the history of this game that makes you think what I've said is incorrect? My observations are based on the game history and Anet's approach to developing it; yours are not. I don't have these problems you do ... I understand how the game works and taken that into account when doing content with Necro. It's not the game that should accommodate you, it's that you need to adjust to the game.

> > > > >

> > > > > The fact is that you experience this because of the way the game is designed and you have little appreciation for it. You want to play how you want while ignoring how others want to play. It's not something that missing or forgotten in the game that causes this; the design of the game results in favoured classes for people that want to play optimally.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bottomline is that you need to learn how to team as a Necro. yes, it's an extra step other classes don't frequently encounter; that's just the nature of the class. Once you figure it out (and its the same for ALL classes), you don't have these problems. IIRC, this isn't the first time you've been told what you need to do to either so honestly, if you aren't willing to take people's advice that know what they are doing and just complain the game doesn't cater to your exacting whim, that's your fault.

> > > >

> > > > again you make this about me and that is pathetic

> > >

> > > No, what's pathetic is that you think you should simply be able to join whatever team you want, irregardless of how the people in that team want to play. For some reason, you think play how you want ideal should only apply to you when it suits you and screw everyone else. How come I don't have the same problems you do? We play the same class, yet I can raid and you claim you can't. That **IS** a you problem. You see, some people have this figured out; you are part of the group that doesn't. Yes, Anet will make changes and meta will shift, but that's not going to change how people who play optimal teams think; they are still going to want to have optimal classes. Choose well.

> > >

> > > > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952"

> > > > "Play how you want" really means "Play according to the game's rules," not total anarchy.

> > >

> > > Sure, but we don't have total anarchy. There is a system in place and it allows players to play exactly how they want. If it wasn't according to the games rules, it wouldn't work like it does; it would be hard coded to team people through the game's rules, not the people's. Maybe it should have been, but then again, I wan't to play with my friends, not randomly selected players from a pool the game decides. Allowing players choice has and still is a major selling point of this game. I doubt that's going to change because some people can't figure out how to get teams with classes they want to play.

> >

> > Personally and this is my 2 cents: If a person who can really play their class and knows how to do the raid cannot get into a raid because the class is too situational that in most cases its not desired, its the class not the person who plays said class. It is one thing to say the person dies repeatedly and doesn't understand the raid, and its another to say they play optimally and still the class is too situational, and too limited with the tools that its more likely to be rejected over any other class which performs better on any raid.

>

> So what would you suggest Anet do to fix that? Aside from making Necro #1 on the meta DPS list (which we have little reason to believe they balance against in the first place), it would be interesting to see what people think about that instead of making no-value threads like this one.

>

> Here is my problem with this; the fix isn't just related to changing Necro; the concept of the class simply doesn't lend it to being popular for meta-raiding. If the OP continues to think that's not a 'him' problem, he's lowering his chances to get teams for raids. /shrug.

 

Here is a question: How come scourge cannot be competitive in support? Why cant the rune which is so troublesome be nerfed and abrasive grit kept the same?

 

Why cant abrasive grit in pve and pvp be separated so that scourge is improved?

 

Why cant more reaper stuff be split between pve and pvp so that reaper can finally be competitive, and not a few paces behind still, and that is if you can maintain the dps with the small duration reaper shroud?

 

Why cant they add boons and conditions to raid bosses for corrupting? Necromancers are more about offensive support than defensive anyways, so why not make their offensives useful? and if its so problematic, will it be removed in the future for balance reasons? because im pretty sure most folks are sick and tired of the nerfs and excuses and being pushed back a few feet to be kept behind everyone.

 

 

 

Just another thought ... Let's assume Anet is targeting meta DPS balance ... what would anyone's advice be to the OP if that was the case? Sit around and make complain threads until it happens? How long does anyone here think that's going to be? Considering the slow/semi-random approach, I would say it could either happen tomorrow, or it could be years. Either way, the advice given to the OP, for everyone for that matter, remains the same, for any class they play.

 

If there is a problem with something that is unbalanced as in underpowered or something of the like, then the only way to get that across, is to post on a forum while playing the game and giving out ideas about what to change, with others like that.(As long as we are respectful) So as long as we enact in civil discourse, then we are fine.

 

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"Farkon.2170" said:

> > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > buff the sustain and you have a class that's more op than mesmer

> >

> > I disagree.

> >

> >

>

> Well no, actually whatever you buff on the necromancer he become OP in PvP. The issue is that what work in PvP don't necessarily work in every game mode and necromancer's tools are heavy in PvP while they tend to be very light in PvE.

>

> If we talk about more sustain to the necromancer it will be either some life siphon or some shroud related stuff. Both would end up overperforming in PvP while staying meh in PvE.

 

Easy fix: use skill split

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> >> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > > > **words mean nothing without actions i hope you learn this at least**

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So true ... you should take your own advice: What actions has Anet done in the history of this game that makes you think what I've said is incorrect? My observations are based on the game history and Anet's approach to developing it; yours are not. I don't have these problems you do ... I understand how the game works and taken that into account when doing content with Necro. It's not the game that should accommodate you, it's that you need to adjust to the game.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The fact is that you experience this because of the way the game is designed and you have little appreciation for it. You want to play how you want while ignoring how others want to play. It's not something that missing or forgotten in the game that causes this; the design of the game results in favoured classes for people that want to play optimally.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bottomline is that you need to learn how to team as a Necro. yes, it's an extra step other classes don't frequently encounter; that's just the nature of the class. Once you figure it out (and its the same for ALL classes), you don't have these problems. IIRC, this isn't the first time you've been told what you need to do to either so honestly, if you aren't willing to take people's advice that know what they are doing and just complain the game doesn't cater to your exacting whim, that's your fault.

> > > > >

> > > > > again you make this about me and that is pathetic

> > > >

> > > > No, what's pathetic is that you think you should simply be able to join whatever team you want, irregardless of how the people in that team want to play. For some reason, you think play how you want ideal should only apply to you when it suits you and screw everyone else. How come I don't have the same problems you do? We play the same class, yet I can raid and you claim you can't. That **IS** a you problem. You see, some people have this figured out; you are part of the group that doesn't. Yes, Anet will make changes and meta will shift, but that's not going to change how people who play optimal teams think; they are still going to want to have optimal classes. Choose well.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952"

> > > > > "Play how you want" really means "Play according to the game's rules," not total anarchy.

> > > >

> > > > Sure, but we don't have total anarchy. There is a system in place and it allows players to play exactly how they want. If it wasn't according to the games rules, it wouldn't work like it does; it would be hard coded to team people through the game's rules, not the people's. Maybe it should have been, but then again, I wan't to play with my friends, not randomly selected players from a pool the game decides. Allowing players choice has and still is a major selling point of this game. I doubt that's going to change because some people can't figure out how to get teams with classes they want to play.

> > >

> > > Personally and this is my 2 cents: If a person who can really play their class and knows how to do the raid cannot get into a raid because the class is too situational that in most cases its not desired, its the class not the person who plays said class. It is one thing to say the person dies repeatedly and doesn't understand the raid, and its another to say they play optimally and still the class is too situational, and too limited with the tools that its more likely to be rejected over any other class which performs better on any raid.

> >

> > So what would you suggest Anet do to fix that? Aside from making Necro #1 on the meta DPS list (which we have little reason to believe they balance against in the first place), it would be interesting to see what people think about that instead of making no-value threads like this one.

> >

> > Here is my problem with this; the fix isn't just related to changing Necro; the concept of the class simply doesn't lend it to being popular for meta-raiding. If the OP continues to think that's not a 'him' problem, he's lowering his chances to get teams for raids. /shrug.

>

> Here is a question: How come scourge cannot be competitive in support? Why cant the rune which is so troublesome be nerfed and abrasive grit kept the same?

>

> Why cant abrasive grit in pve and pvp be separated so that scourge is improved?

>

> Why cant more reaper stuff be split between pve and pvp so that reaper can finally be competitive, and not a few paces behind still, and that is if you can maintain the dps with the small duration reaper shroud?

>

> Why cant they add boons and conditions to raid bosses for corrupting? Necromancers are more about offensive support than defensive anyways, so why not make their offensives useful? and if its so problematic, will it be removed in the future for balance reasons? because im pretty sure most folks are sick and tired of the nerfs and excuses and being pushed back a few feet to be kept behind everyone.

 

The problem is, that bosses would have to constantly reapply a decent amount of boons to make necro good.

Else you will just wait for your chronos to remove the buffs with autoattacks

[Dadnir.5038]

As much as I don't agree with ANet's way to handle things with the necromancer, I can think of logical answers to some of your questions if I put myself into the shoes of the developpers.

 

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> Here is a question: How come scourge cannot be competitive in support?

 

Scourge is already a competitive support in both WvW and PvE raids, it's just that he isn't "main support" material.

 

> Why cant the rune which is so troublesome be nerfed and abrasive grit kept the same?

 

I hate me to the core for what I'll say because I feel it's unfair but I can understand why they nerfed AG instead of the rune. Simply put the already lackluster rune wouldn't be worth anything for most of the profession if it was nerfed. They acted in a hurry for arguable reason and chose to nerf the trait instead of the rune because they would have had to totally rework the rune effect mechanism to make it viable while putting an ICD on the trait was possible without rework of the mechanism.

 

> Why cant abrasive grit in pve and pvp be separated so that scourge is improved?

>

 

They don't want exploit like this in both gamemodes and like I said previously, they were in a hurry and chose the solution that didn't involve a mechanism rework.

 

> Why cant more reaper stuff be split between pve and pvp so that reaper can finally be competitive, and not a few paces behind still, and that is if you can maintain the dps with the small duration reaper shroud?

>

 

The shroud with it's defensive aspect make any buff to it's offensive aspect difficult. Simply put, if the reaper had average damage in PvE with it's above average survivability due to the shroud defensive aspect, it might become the overperforming "newby" profession that you have to take if you want to be taken into raids because nobody expect a stranger you to perform at 100% with a profession with lower survivability.

 

The necromancer is in this tight spot where having the same average damage than other professions can potentially make him the mandatory dps. It's kept below average to show that ANet value it's survivability.

 

> Why cant they add boons and conditions to raid bosses for corrupting?

 

They do. But there is 2 issues that prevent the necromancer from exploiting boon corruption:

- The necromancers are in direct contest for the boon removal with the mesmer. You'd think that removing the boon ripping effect from the mesmer would be a good solution but the mesmer's balance in PvP prevent such a move. And since they don't want to split mechanism, this is not possible.

- The necromancer would only gain something if the boss had regen, vigor, (alacrity and resistance for reaper) or aegis to corrupt. Most of those boons make no sense on bosses while some are outright impossible to exploit.

 

As for conditions, I'm sure most of us don't like these burst of conditions that anet seem to enjoy putting on PvE and those burst of condition are unexploitable. That said, it's also understandable that constant condition application might make the necromancer condition output impossible to keep in check either.

 

> Necromancers are more about offensive support than defensive anyways, so why not make their offensives useful? and if its so problematic, will it be removed in the future for balance reasons? because im pretty sure most folks are sick and tired of the nerfs and excuses and being pushed back a few feet to be kept behind everyone.

>

 

Still the same logic as what I answered previously. ANet is in a deadlock where they can't buff necromancer's offensive unless they break things for other professions and make the game unfair for everything else than a necromancer. It's the necromancer's uniqueness that hold him back.

 

>

> Just another thought ... Let's assume Anet is targeting meta DPS balance ... what would anyone's advice be to the OP if that was the case? Sit around and make complain threads until it happens? How long does anyone here think that's going to be? Considering the slow/semi-random approach, I would say it could either happen tomorrow, or it could be years. Either way, the advice given to the OP, for everyone for that matter, remains the same, for any class they play.

>

 

Objectively it might never happen no matter how many complains there is. The only hopes can be found into the future e-spec which need to push the necromancer closer to what other professions do. Which mean e-spec without 2nd life bar and no focus on tools like boon corruption.

 

> If there is a problem with something that is unbalanced as in underpowered or something of the like, then the only way to get that across, is to post on a forum while playing the game and giving out ideas about what to change, with others like that.(As long as we are respectful) So as long as we enact in civil discourse, then we are fine.

>

 

 

[Axl.8924]

But reaper sacrificed its survivability for more dps, and even though obtenna keeps arguing that you can bring necro even though its dps is still behind everyone else.

 

Sure but why bother? why not just bring classes with better dps condi and such? It seems rather unbalanced that some classes can do all those things, and do them well.

 

Mesmers are gods of dps both condi and power and support.

 

And our best spec is still niche, I mean others have argued that rezzing is only good if people die a lot.

Firebrands have amazing support for instance that people want in raids

 

You could argue that we are desired in fractals, but we are still far from best when in solo mode, since everything can melt us if they have a brain to know how to counter us.

 

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> But reaper sacrificed its survivability for more dps, and even though obtenna keeps arguing that you can bring necro even though its dps is still behind everyone else.

I'm playing engi t4 cms everyday and I seen 1 reaper doing more damage than me ,a bit. Even tho I outdps ppl with 'fractal god' title all the time(they arent tryhard or something?:D). Behind everyone else, lol..

> Sure but why bother? why not just bring classes with better dps condi and such? It seems rather unbalanced that some classes can do all those things, and do them well.

For fractals ppl want burst skip all mechanics ,reaper is not about doing 100k explosive burst damage

> Mesmers are gods of dps both condi and power and support.

Thats why raids have meta of 10 mesmes ! :D

> Firebrands have amazing support for instance that people want in raids

Yes , FB need to be hammernerfed from being ultimate support class in all game modes :+1:

> You could argue that we are desired in fractals, but we are still far from best when in solo mode, since everything can melt us if they have a brain to know how to counter us.

So beside being monster in group fights ... you want to be godlike roamer and duelist ? You want too much may be?

 

Actually I have a question ... About what this thread ? Necro not so wanted in PVE? Because on wvw/pvp necro is doing more than fine

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"Mini Crinny.6190" said:

> > > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > >

> > > > But you are describing scourge, which is 6k DPS behind engineer.

> > >

> > > Scourge is a Support spec technically so being 6k being a full dps build isnt really that bad

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Any spec that fart boons could be described as support as well, it doesn't mean that despite their support they are limited in their dps, I'd even say that they would riot if it was the case. Look, DE have great options to give a lot of boons would you imagine them being 6k behind an average "dps" build when using their dps traits like the scourge do?

> >

> > The reality is that the dps output of the scourge is tied to it's ability to corrupt boons and transfert condition and that just doesn't work in PvE end game content because mobs with large amount of vigor, aegis or even regen that are corrupted into damaging conditions don't exist in game. Now, even if bosses ended up having those boons, the mesmer would still remove them faster than the necromancer could due to their boon hate on sword auto. As for transfering condition, the rare burst of condition that the characters receive in end game content don't really help this aspect to shine as well.

> >

> > The condi scourge is designed to be strong in boon heavy area, just like the core condi necromancer or the reaper. If PvE was an ideal environment for the necromancer, it would be hell for other professions and ANet couldn't begin to end the complaints about how unfair the game is and how necromancer is way to strong in PvE. The right choice should obviously be to developpe other mean of offense for the necromancer but, the boon meta is so rampant is sPvP/WvW that ANet just can't help trying to focus more and more on the counters to this meta, pushing the necromancer always on the edge of PvE while making it "to" strong against players.

> >

> > Boons are overflowing in game and nobody care about them, there are even player that think those boons are "weak". However, as soon as conditions are overflowing (the main consequences of boon corruption) people cry about how cancerous they are.

> >

> > With the current system, if you disregard boon corruption and give the scourge enough damage to be competitive in PvE, he become way to strong in PvP, while the opposite is right if you take boon corruption into account. It's not difficult to understand that there is an issue with the necromancers tools that create a gap in performance based on the gamemode. The best solution would probably be to remove boon corruption (replace it by simple boon ripping) from the game and give the necromancer normalized way to deal damage. That said, neither a large part of the necromancer community nor ANet would be willing to do so.

>

> Deadeye at the minute is better at DPS, why would it go support when Chrono/Druid/Bannerslave are better, the issue with scourge is its dps isn't amazing in PvE but it's support is actually really good (We use a support scourge over a druid for T4s and CM) now most pugs don't see Scourge as a support and only as a Dps and that's a community problem where they only look at benchmarks and take whatever is top, Scourge support should be buffed a little by giving a party wide buff through a traitline imo, To me, Reaper is the necro's version of power damage, and thus it should be a viable option so elitist pugs allow necros into a group, Balancing the game with 3 different game modes is literally impossible to do and when they announced (some time ago) that they would do more skill splits I was kinda hopeful, but they have still nerfed a class in all game modes although the problem was in a different game mode, being the Lava font nerf a good example of it

 

Its not hard to beat druid at healing even theifs do what scourge need added is buffs wich beats the spirit one and then we would have scourge support meta

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> But reaper sacrificed its survivability for more dps, and even though obtenna keeps arguing that you can bring necro even though its dps is still behind everyone else.

>

 

Not all it's survivability, a fourth at best. Which doesn't change that technically it's more sturdy than other professions without having to invest in it's build for it's survivability. This is where the issue lie.

 

@"tinyreborn.1938"

What you prefer to turn a blind eye on is that the necromancer have a lower ceiling on it's maximum damage output even if he can reach this ceiling with more ease than other professions. In PvE end game content players group favor professions with high ceiling on their maximum damage output and usually don't really care about whether it's easy or not to reach this ceiling. A reaper outdpsing you just meant that you were struggling in bringing out your profession's potential while he was infinitely close to it's dps limit.

 

> Sure but why bother? why not just bring classes with better dps condi and such? It seems rather unbalanced that some classes can do all those things, and do them well.

>

 

The unbalance is only a perceived unbalance based on the player's community priority. The community priority is dps and support is secondary, if the priority was survivability and dps was secondary then the necromancer would be favored by the meta as a dps.

 

> Mesmers are gods of dps both condi and power and support.

>

 

Mesmers are a terrible balance example and used to be bottom of the barrel in regard of dps.

 

> And our best spec is still niche, I mean others have argued that rezzing is only good if people die a lot.

 

Niche but very usefull for groups that still learn the encounters' mechanisms. But, yeah, I agree that taking on the rezzing job is like having a very poor opinion of the teammates your gonna partied with in mastered content.

 

> Firebrands have amazing support for instance that people want in raids

>

 

Guardian is light and necromancer is dark. Guardian is boons and necromancer is conditions. Guardian suck at sending variety of conditions while the necromancer excel at it. Conditions are just a lot less effective in PvE than boons. You can't be jealous of a profession that excel in it's own area because you suck in this area. The guardian suck in the necromancer's own area should we expect them to cry over the fact that when boon hate is needed nobody seek a guardian?

 

> You could argue that we are desired in fractals, but we are still far from best when in solo mode, since everything can melt us if they have a brain to know how to counter us.

>

 

Like I said the necromancer can only hope to end up with an e-spec that bring him closer to other roaming professions and favor tools that aren't so much different from what other professions does. We will probably never have access to block or invuln but I don't think that a "dodge/mobility" spec is out of the picture. With it's design/thematic, the necromancer could very well have tools that drain endurance from it's foes and exploit it to dodge on it's own. That would surely be worthless in PvE but I don't doubt even a single instant that "anything with a brain" would hate such a spec deep down to the core.

[apharma.3741]

Stupid people being stupid. It's why I wasn't surprised by the necro flood on W1 of the ARP by WE as while the DPS is a little lower on boss the reality is you can speed up the in between phases by using epidemic to essentially DPS 3 targets at the same time.

 

Anyone that doesn't understand the power of necro and epidemic isn't worth playing with so that group technically did you a favour by not inflicting their idiocy and poor understanding of game mechanics.

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > > **words mean nothing without actions i hope you learn this at least**

> > > > >

> > > > > So true ... you should take your own advice: What actions has Anet done in the history of this game that makes you think what I've said is incorrect? My observations are based on the game history and Anet's approach to developing it; yours are not. I don't have these problems you do ... I understand how the game works and taken that into account when doing content with Necro. It's not the game that should accommodate you, it's that you need to adjust to the game.

> > > > >

> > > > > The fact is that you experience this because of the way the game is designed and you have little appreciation for it. You want to play how you want while ignoring how others want to play. It's not something that missing or forgotten in the game that causes this; the design of the game results in favoured classes for people that want to play optimally.

> > > > >

> > > > > Bottomline is that you need to learn how to team as a Necro. yes, it's an extra step other classes don't frequently encounter; that's just the nature of the class. Once you figure it out (and its the same for ALL classes), you don't have these problems. IIRC, this isn't the first time you've been told what you need to do to either so honestly, if you aren't willing to take people's advice that know what they are doing and just complain the game doesn't cater to your exacting whim, that's your fault.

> > > >

> > > > again you make this about me and that is pathetic

> > >

> > > No, what's pathetic is that you think you should simply be able to join whatever team you want, irregardless of how the people in that team want to play. For some reason, you think play how you want ideal should only apply to you when it suits you and screw everyone else. How come I don't have the same problems you do? We play the same class, yet I can raid and you claim you can't. That **IS** a you problem. You see, some people have this figured out; you are part of the group that doesn't. Yes, Anet will make changes and meta will shift, but that's not going to change how people who play optimal teams think; they are still going to want to have optimal classes. Choose well.

> > >

> > > > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952"

> > > > "Play how you want" really means "Play according to the game's rules," not total anarchy.

> > >

> > > Sure, but we don't have total anarchy. There is a system in place and it allows players to play exactly how they want. If it wasn't according to the games rules, it wouldn't work like it does; it would be hard coded to team people through the game's rules, not the people's. Maybe it should have been, but then again, I wan't to play with my friends, not randomly selected players from a pool the game decides. Allowing players choice has and still is a major selling point of this game. I doubt that's going to change because some people can't figure out how to get teams with classes they want to play.

> >

> > Personally and this is my 2 cents: If a person who can really play their class and knows how to do the raid cannot get into a raid because the class is too situational that in most cases its not desired, its the class not the person who plays said class. It is one thing to say the person dies repeatedly and doesn't understand the raid, and its another to say they play optimally and still the class is too situational, and too limited with the tools that its more likely to be rejected over any other class which performs better on any raid.

>

> So what would you suggest Anet do to fix that? Aside from making Necro #1 on the meta DPS list (which we have little reason to believe they balance against in the first place), it would be interesting to see what people think about that instead of making no-value threads like this one.

>

> Here is my problem with this; the fix isn't just related to changing Necro; the concept of the class simply doesn't lend it to being popular for meta-raiding. If the OP continues to think that's not a 'him' problem, he's lowering his chances to get teams for raids. /shrug.

 

Obtena you keep assume that i am the problem here i did told you that over and over i am not but again that is pathetic

FYI immediately after the conversation between me and that toxic commander i did find a group and full clear W6

 

> So what would you suggest Anet do to fix that? Aside from making Necro #1 on the meta DPS list (which we have little reason to believe they balance against in the first place)

i see you have bird memory because i did educated you about how ANET do their balance not long time ago

> @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> Thanks for the questions. I'll try to answer what I can:

>

> 1. We like reworking old, underused, or just stale aspects of the combat system. It tends to breathe life into something that's fallen flat over a period of time, or whose original design just doesn't fit the game we play today. The team usually has a few reworks in-progress and we're trying to keep on pace to have something going out every update. Often times these reworks require things like visual effects, animation, icons, editing (text), so we need to coordinate with other teams and work with them in order to be able to release what we've changed.

>

>

> 2. Our process for deciding what is priority tends to be a mixture and we check all sorts of different areas. Analytics (per game mode), build sites, benchmarks, and incoming communication from players from all sources are some of the information points we gather. It becomes a little harder deciding what to change, with "what is used the least" being difficult to gauge. In general, a question we ask is: Does this have purpose in the current game (any mode) today? If the answer is "No, and it won't change with just number modifications" then it tends to be higher on the list. That's not to say we choose to rework things based on this assessment alone. Sometimes things don't match up with our vision of how they are expected to be used, sometimes they're too strong and we have limited knobs to turn for the sake of balance. An example of this right now would be Traps for the Thief, where the enemy-activated strike (that we needed to put in so they couldn't perma-stealth kill enemies) fights with the thief's stealth application and ruins the 'ambush' nature of Stealth and Traps together.

>

> 3. Feedback that's currently provided (here on the forums and other platforms) is pretty useful already. We get information from someone's full-length rework proposal, but also from someone just naturally mentioning a certain skill in their two sentence post. It's helpful to see conversation happening on topics that you hold important and try to understand the logic behind it. Additionally, feedback without personally attacking people always has more impact in the long run. Irenio's got more coming in this post about feedback.

>

> -Karl

can you read that again and concentrate on No.2 and you ll see he mentioned **build sites, benchmarks, and incoming communication from players **

[see this if you dont believe me and this is from the system team ](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/651868#Comment_651868 "see this if you dont believe me and this is from the system team ")

and from your response here on the forum i assume you only use necromancer all minion and a soldier stat and have no clue about necro stat in raid

[phs.6089]

> @"Jeknar.6184" said:

> I don't know why your images have a huge blank part, but w/e...

>

> I might be outdated, but don't people used to run certain bosses with multiple scourge for epidemic cleave? Pretty sure I did it on Vale Guardian, Sabetha, Slothasor, Trio, Xera, Mursaat Overseer and Soulless Horror (Never did anything past River of Souls or Wing 6)

 

Not anymore,[ people](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/36834/epidemic-in-raids-needs-to-be-nerfed/p1 " people(plural)") asked on forums to nerf epidemic in raids(!!!). Necro got nerfed like 4 patches ago. lol

[Axl.8924]

Guardian is light and necromancer is dark. Guardian is boons and necromancer is conditions. Guardian suck at sending variety of conditions while the necromancer excel at it. Conditions are just a lot less effective in PvE than boons. You can't be jealous of a profession that excel in it's own area because you suck in this area. The guardian suck in the necromancer's own area should we expect them to cry over the fact that when boon hate is needed nobody seek a guardian?

 

The problem is while yes we are different, our type of support is not really desired as much in pve.I don't really care much about spvp. I am more interested in fractals, raids and WVW. Thing is though, is that while yes necros are super strong in WVW, like others have pointed out, besides Fractals high tiers where boon corrupts are very useful, in raids it has no place.

 

 

 

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> What you prefer to turn a blind eye on is that the necromancer have a lower ceiling on it's maximum damage output even if he can reach this ceiling with more ease than other professions. In PvE end game content players group favor professions with high ceiling on their maximum damage output and usually don't really care about whether it's easy or not to reach this ceiling. A reaper outdpsing you just meant that you were struggling in bringing out your profession's potential while he was infinitely close to it's dps limit.

You missed part where I said I outdps ppl that have 7% damage bonus buff and only part where I struggle its lack of boons from chrono (especially alacrity) ;)

Thats feelsbadman for you I guess? I'd prefer someone who always do stable high dps rather than some1 who does average with 'high damage ceiling' xD

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > What you prefer to turn a blind eye on is that the necromancer have a lower ceiling on it's maximum damage output even if he can reach this ceiling with more ease than other professions. In PvE end game content players group favor professions with high ceiling on their maximum damage output and usually don't really care about whether it's easy or not to reach this ceiling. A reaper outdpsing you just meant that you were struggling in bringing out your profession's potential while he was infinitely close to it's dps limit.

> You missed part where I said I outdps ppl that have 7% damage bonus buff and only part where I struggle its lack of boons from chrono (especially alacrity) ;)

> Thats feelsbadman for you I guess? I'd prefer someone who always do stable high dps rather than some1 who does average with 'high damage ceiling' xD

 

Nope I don't feel bad. What's important is that the majority discriminate over what you as a minority prefer and that's the daily issue of the necromancer.

[Mini Crinny.6190]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > > > **words mean nothing without actions i hope you learn this at least**

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So true ... you should take your own advice: What actions has Anet done in the history of this game that makes you think what I've said is incorrect? My observations are based on the game history and Anet's approach to developing it; yours are not. I don't have these problems you do ... I understand how the game works and taken that into account when doing content with Necro. It's not the game that should accommodate you, it's that you need to adjust to the game.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The fact is that you experience this because of the way the game is designed and you have little appreciation for it. You want to play how you want while ignoring how others want to play. It's not something that missing or forgotten in the game that causes this; the design of the game results in favoured classes for people that want to play optimally.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bottomline is that you need to learn how to team as a Necro. yes, it's an extra step other classes don't frequently encounter; that's just the nature of the class. Once you figure it out (and its the same for ALL classes), you don't have these problems. IIRC, this isn't the first time you've been told what you need to do to either so honestly, if you aren't willing to take people's advice that know what they are doing and just complain the game doesn't cater to your exacting whim, that's your fault.

> > > > >

> > > > > again you make this about me and that is pathetic

> > > >

> > > > No, what's pathetic is that you think you should simply be able to join whatever team you want, irregardless of how the people in that team want to play. For some reason, you think play how you want ideal should only apply to you when it suits you and screw everyone else. How come I don't have the same problems you do? We play the same class, yet I can raid and you claim you can't. That **IS** a you problem. You see, some people have this figured out; you are part of the group that doesn't. Yes, Anet will make changes and meta will shift, but that's not going to change how people who play optimal teams think; they are still going to want to have optimal classes. Choose well.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952"

> > > > > "Play how you want" really means "Play according to the game's rules," not total anarchy.

> > > >

> > > > Sure, but we don't have total anarchy. There is a system in place and it allows players to play exactly how they want. If it wasn't according to the games rules, it wouldn't work like it does; it would be hard coded to team people through the game's rules, not the people's. Maybe it should have been, but then again, I wan't to play with my friends, not randomly selected players from a pool the game decides. Allowing players choice has and still is a major selling point of this game. I doubt that's going to change because some people can't figure out how to get teams with classes they want to play.

> > >

> > > Personally and this is my 2 cents: If a person who can really play their class and knows how to do the raid cannot get into a raid because the class is too situational that in most cases its not desired, its the class not the person who plays said class. It is one thing to say the person dies repeatedly and doesn't understand the raid, and its another to say they play optimally and still the class is too situational, and too limited with the tools that its more likely to be rejected over any other class which performs better on any raid.

> >

> > So what would you suggest Anet do to fix that? Aside from making Necro #1 on the meta DPS list (which we have little reason to believe they balance against in the first place), it would be interesting to see what people think about that instead of making no-value threads like this one.

> >

> > Here is my problem with this; the fix isn't just related to changing Necro; the concept of the class simply doesn't lend it to being popular for meta-raiding. If the OP continues to think that's not a 'him' problem, he's lowering his chances to get teams for raids. /shrug.

>

> Obtena you keep assume that i am the problem here i did told you that over and over i am not but again that is pathetic

> FYI immediately after the conversation between me and that toxic commander i did find a group and full clear W6

>

> > So what would you suggest Anet do to fix that? Aside from making Necro #1 on the meta DPS list (which we have little reason to believe they balance against in the first place)

> i see you have bird memory because i did educated you about how ANET do their balance not long time ago

> > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > Thanks for the questions. I'll try to answer what I can:

> >

> > 1. We like reworking old, underused, or just stale aspects of the combat system. It tends to breathe life into something that's fallen flat over a period of time, or whose original design just doesn't fit the game we play today. The team usually has a few reworks in-progress and we're trying to keep on pace to have something going out every update. Often times these reworks require things like visual effects, animation, icons, editing (text), so we need to coordinate with other teams and work with them in order to be able to release what we've changed.

> >

> >

> > 2. Our process for deciding what is priority tends to be a mixture and we check all sorts of different areas. Analytics (per game mode), build sites, benchmarks, and incoming communication from players from all sources are some of the information points we gather. It becomes a little harder deciding what to change, with "what is used the least" being difficult to gauge. In general, a question we ask is: Does this have purpose in the current game (any mode) today? If the answer is "No, and it won't change with just number modifications" then it tends to be higher on the list. That's not to say we choose to rework things based on this assessment alone. Sometimes things don't match up with our vision of how they are expected to be used, sometimes they're too strong and we have limited knobs to turn for the sake of balance. An example of this right now would be Traps for the Thief, where the enemy-activated strike (that we needed to put in so they couldn't perma-stealth kill enemies) fights with the thief's stealth application and ruins the 'ambush' nature of Stealth and Traps together.

> >

> > 3. Feedback that's currently provided (here on the forums and other platforms) is pretty useful already. We get information from someone's full-length rework proposal, but also from someone just naturally mentioning a certain skill in their two sentence post. It's helpful to see conversation happening on topics that you hold important and try to understand the logic behind it. Additionally, feedback without personally attacking people always has more impact in the long run. Irenio's got more coming in this post about feedback.

> >

> > -Karl

> can you read that again and concentrate on No.2 and you ll see he mentioned **build sites, benchmarks, and incoming communication from players **

> [see this if you dont believe me and this is from the system team ](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/651868#Comment_651868 "see this if you dont believe me and this is from the system team ")

> and from your response here on the forum i assume you only use necromancer all minion and a soldier stat and have no clue about necro stat in raid

 

So Tempest?

[Obtena.7952]

> @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > > > **words mean nothing without actions i hope you learn this at least**

> > > > > >

> > > > > > So true ... you should take your own advice: What actions has Anet done in the history of this game that makes you think what I've said is incorrect? My observations are based on the game history and Anet's approach to developing it; yours are not. I don't have these problems you do ... I understand how the game works and taken that into account when doing content with Necro. It's not the game that should accommodate you, it's that you need to adjust to the game.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The fact is that you experience this because of the way the game is designed and you have little appreciation for it. You want to play how you want while ignoring how others want to play. It's not something that missing or forgotten in the game that causes this; the design of the game results in favoured classes for people that want to play optimally.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Bottomline is that you need to learn how to team as a Necro. yes, it's an extra step other classes don't frequently encounter; that's just the nature of the class. Once you figure it out (and its the same for ALL classes), you don't have these problems. IIRC, this isn't the first time you've been told what you need to do to either so honestly, if you aren't willing to take people's advice that know what they are doing and just complain the game doesn't cater to your exacting whim, that's your fault.

> > > > >

> > > > > again you make this about me and that is pathetic

> > > >

> > > > No, what's pathetic is that you think you should simply be able to join whatever team you want, irregardless of how the people in that team want to play. For some reason, you think play how you want ideal should only apply to you when it suits you and screw everyone else. How come I don't have the same problems you do? We play the same class, yet I can raid and you claim you can't. That **IS** a you problem. You see, some people have this figured out; you are part of the group that doesn't. Yes, Anet will make changes and meta will shift, but that's not going to change how people who play optimal teams think; they are still going to want to have optimal classes. Choose well.

> > > >

> > > > > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952"

> > > > > "Play how you want" really means "Play according to the game's rules," not total anarchy.

> > > >

> > > > Sure, but we don't have total anarchy. There is a system in place and it allows players to play exactly how they want. If it wasn't according to the games rules, it wouldn't work like it does; it would be hard coded to team people through the game's rules, not the people's. Maybe it should have been, but then again, I wan't to play with my friends, not randomly selected players from a pool the game decides. Allowing players choice has and still is a major selling point of this game. I doubt that's going to change because some people can't figure out how to get teams with classes they want to play.

> > >

> > > Personally and this is my 2 cents: If a person who can really play their class and knows how to do the raid cannot get into a raid because the class is too situational that in most cases its not desired, its the class not the person who plays said class. It is one thing to say the person dies repeatedly and doesn't understand the raid, and its another to say they play optimally and still the class is too situational, and too limited with the tools that its more likely to be rejected over any other class which performs better on any raid.

> >

> > So what would you suggest Anet do to fix that? Aside from making Necro #1 on the meta DPS list (which we have little reason to believe they balance against in the first place), it would be interesting to see what people think about that instead of making no-value threads like this one.

> >

> > Here is my problem with this; the fix isn't just related to changing Necro; the concept of the class simply doesn't lend it to being popular for meta-raiding. If the OP continues to think that's not a 'him' problem, he's lowering his chances to get teams for raids. /shrug.

>

> Obtena you keep assume that i am the problem here i did told you that over and over i am not but again that is pathetic

> FYI immediately after the conversation between me and that toxic commander i did find a group and full clear W6

>

> > So what would you suggest Anet do to fix that? Aside from making Necro #1 on the meta DPS list (which we have little reason to believe they balance against in the first place)

> i see you have bird memory because i did educated you about how ANET do their balance not long time ago

> > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > Thanks for the questions. I'll try to answer what I can:

> >

> > 1. We like reworking old, underused, or just stale aspects of the combat system. It tends to breathe life into something that's fallen flat over a period of time, or whose original design just doesn't fit the game we play today. The team usually has a few reworks in-progress and we're trying to keep on pace to have something going out every update. Often times these reworks require things like visual effects, animation, icons, editing (text), so we need to coordinate with other teams and work with them in order to be able to release what we've changed.

> >

> >

> > 2. Our process for deciding what is priority tends to be a mixture and we check all sorts of different areas. Analytics (per game mode), build sites, benchmarks, and incoming communication from players from all sources are some of the information points we gather. It becomes a little harder deciding what to change, with "what is used the least" being difficult to gauge. In general, a question we ask is: Does this have purpose in the current game (any mode) today? If the answer is "No, and it won't change with just number modifications" then it tends to be higher on the list. That's not to say we choose to rework things based on this assessment alone. Sometimes things don't match up with our vision of how they are expected to be used, sometimes they're too strong and we have limited knobs to turn for the sake of balance. An example of this right now would be Traps for the Thief, where the enemy-activated strike (that we needed to put in so they couldn't perma-stealth kill enemies) fights with the thief's stealth application and ruins the 'ambush' nature of Stealth and Traps together.

> >

> > 3. Feedback that's currently provided (here on the forums and other platforms) is pretty useful already. We get information from someone's full-length rework proposal, but also from someone just naturally mentioning a certain skill in their two sentence post. It's helpful to see conversation happening on topics that you hold important and try to understand the logic behind it. Additionally, feedback without personally attacking people always has more impact in the long run. Irenio's got more coming in this post about feedback.

> >

> > -Karl

> can you read that again and concentrate on No.2 and you ll see he mentioned **build sites, benchmarks, and incoming communication from players **

> [see this if you dont believe me and this is from the system team ](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/651868#Comment_651868 "see this if you dont believe me and this is from the system team ")

> and from your response here on the forum i assume you only use necromancer all minion and a soldier stat and have no clue about necro stat in raid

 

You're reply doesn't make any sense to my post; no one here is debating if or how Anet balances the game. Maybe that reply makes sense to you, but to me, your just making random replies to very factual, sound advice. Regardless, what I have said is true and relevant to your situation and the thread.

 

_If you want to play with a specific class, you need to learn how to do so._

 

This is a universal truth, for any game, any class, any game mode; complaining about how people perceive it will get you no further to getting the teams you are after. If you **are** getting teams and still complaining on the forums, then I can only assume you are somehow confused about your own situation.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> If there is a problem with something that is unbalanced as in underpowered or something of the like, then the only way to get that across, is to post on a forum while playing the game and giving out ideas about what to change, with others like that.(As long as we are respectful) So as long as we enact in civil discourse, then we are fine.

>

... and how well do you think that works? I mean, express opinions but if anyone thinks that Anet hasn't already got the message, there is something wrong with how that person thinks.

 

Again, the balancing is either so slow or semi-random, that the idea people take the extra care to team with classes they want to play is not an unreasonable response to the thread. Hundreds of compounding complaint threads do not get people what they want (this much should be obvious to ever single person by now); learning to team with their chosen class does.

 

The worst part is that the OP admits he went and found a team ... so what's the problem here? What is the thread about? Are we supposed to make a thread everytime we team with necro? Not sure what that accomplishes ...

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > > > > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > > > > > > **words mean nothing without actions i hope you learn this at least**

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > So true ... you should take your own advice: What actions has Anet done in the history of this game that makes you think what I've said is incorrect? My observations are based on the game history and Anet's approach to developing it; yours are not. I don't have these problems you do ... I understand how the game works and taken that into account when doing content with Necro. It's not the game that should accommodate you, it's that you need to adjust to the game.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The fact is that you experience this because of the way the game is designed and you have little appreciation for it. You want to play how you want while ignoring how others want to play. It's not something that missing or forgotten in the game that causes this; the design of the game results in favoured classes for people that want to play optimally.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Bottomline is that you need to learn how to team as a Necro. yes, it's an extra step other classes don't frequently encounter; that's just the nature of the class. Once you figure it out (and its the same for ALL classes), you don't have these problems. IIRC, this isn't the first time you've been told what you need to do to either so honestly, if you aren't willing to take people's advice that know what they are doing and just complain the game doesn't cater to your exacting whim, that's your fault.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > again you make this about me and that is pathetic

> > > > >

> > > > > No, what's pathetic is that you think you should simply be able to join whatever team you want, irregardless of how the people in that team want to play. For some reason, you think play how you want ideal should only apply to you when it suits you and screw everyone else. How come I don't have the same problems you do? We play the same class, yet I can raid and you claim you can't. That **IS** a you problem. You see, some people have this figured out; you are part of the group that doesn't. Yes, Anet will make changes and meta will shift, but that's not going to change how people who play optimal teams think; they are still going to want to have optimal classes. Choose well.

> > > > >

> > > > > > @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> > > > > > @"Obtena.7952"

> > > > > > "Play how you want" really means "Play according to the game's rules," not total anarchy.

> > > > >

> > > > > Sure, but we don't have total anarchy. There is a system in place and it allows players to play exactly how they want. If it wasn't according to the games rules, it wouldn't work like it does; it would be hard coded to team people through the game's rules, not the people's. Maybe it should have been, but then again, I wan't to play with my friends, not randomly selected players from a pool the game decides. Allowing players choice has and still is a major selling point of this game. I doubt that's going to change because some people can't figure out how to get teams with classes they want to play.

> > > >

> > > > Personally and this is my 2 cents: If a person who can really play their class and knows how to do the raid cannot get into a raid because the class is too situational that in most cases its not desired, its the class not the person who plays said class. It is one thing to say the person dies repeatedly and doesn't understand the raid, and its another to say they play optimally and still the class is too situational, and too limited with the tools that its more likely to be rejected over any other class which performs better on any raid.

> > >

> > > So what would you suggest Anet do to fix that? Aside from making Necro #1 on the meta DPS list (which we have little reason to believe they balance against in the first place), it would be interesting to see what people think about that instead of making no-value threads like this one.

> > >

> > > Here is my problem with this; the fix isn't just related to changing Necro; the concept of the class simply doesn't lend it to being popular for meta-raiding. If the OP continues to think that's not a 'him' problem, he's lowering his chances to get teams for raids. /shrug.

> >

> > Obtena you keep assume that i am the problem here i did told you that over and over i am not but again that is pathetic

> > FYI immediately after the conversation between me and that toxic commander i did find a group and full clear W6

> >

> > > So what would you suggest Anet do to fix that? Aside from making Necro #1 on the meta DPS list (which we have little reason to believe they balance against in the first place)

> > i see you have bird memory because i did educated you about how ANET do their balance not long time ago

> > > @"Karl McLain.5604" said:

> > > Thanks for the questions. I'll try to answer what I can:

> > >

> > > 1. We like reworking old, underused, or just stale aspects of the combat system. It tends to breathe life into something that's fallen flat over a period of time, or whose original design just doesn't fit the game we play today. The team usually has a few reworks in-progress and we're trying to keep on pace to have something going out every update. Often times these reworks require things like visual effects, animation, icons, editing (text), so we need to coordinate with other teams and work with them in order to be able to release what we've changed.

> > >

> > >

> > > 2. Our process for deciding what is priority tends to be a mixture and we check all sorts of different areas. Analytics (per game mode), build sites, benchmarks, and incoming communication from players from all sources are some of the information points we gather. It becomes a little harder deciding what to change, with "what is used the least" being difficult to gauge. In general, a question we ask is: Does this have purpose in the current game (any mode) today? If the answer is "No, and it won't change with just number modifications" then it tends to be higher on the list. That's not to say we choose to rework things based on this assessment alone. Sometimes things don't match up with our vision of how they are expected to be used, sometimes they're too strong and we have limited knobs to turn for the sake of balance. An example of this right now would be Traps for the Thief, where the enemy-activated strike (that we needed to put in so they couldn't perma-stealth kill enemies) fights with the thief's stealth application and ruins the 'ambush' nature of Stealth and Traps together.

> > >

> > > 3. Feedback that's currently provided (here on the forums and other platforms) is pretty useful already. We get information from someone's full-length rework proposal, but also from someone just naturally mentioning a certain skill in their two sentence post. It's helpful to see conversation happening on topics that you hold important and try to understand the logic behind it. Additionally, feedback without personally attacking people always has more impact in the long run. Irenio's got more coming in this post about feedback.

> > >

> > > -Karl

> > can you read that again and concentrate on No.2 and you ll see he mentioned **build sites, benchmarks, and incoming communication from players **

> > [see this if you dont believe me and this is from the system team ](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/651868#Comment_651868 "see this if you dont believe me and this is from the system team ")

> > and from your response here on the forum i assume you only use necromancer all minion and a soldier stat and have no clue about necro stat in raid

>

 

> _If you want to play with a specific class, you need to learn how to do so._

 

what make you think that i dont know how to play my main necro who i spent months practice and gear up for many roles

please read that they didnt say we dont need you they said we dont need a necro

so who need necro

but if i learned anything from this is that for sure you dont know how to play necro i dare you to prove me wrong and post a video of you clearing W5 and W6

as i did told you. word mean nothing without actions

as i did told you. word mean nothing without actions

as i did told you. word mean nothing without actions

 

[Axl.8924]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > If there is a problem with something that is unbalanced as in underpowered or something of the like, then the only way to get that across, is to post on a forum while playing the game and giving out ideas about what to change, with others like that.(As long as we are respectful) So as long as we enact in civil discourse, then we are fine.

> >

> ... and how well do you think that works? I mean, express opinions but if anyone thinks that Anet hasn't already got the message, there is something wrong with how that person thinks.

>

> Again, the balancing is either so slow or semi-random, that the idea people take the extra care to team with classes they want to play is not an unreasonable response to the thread. Hundreds of compounding complaint threads do not get people what they want (this much should be obvious to ever single person by now); learning to team with their chosen class does.

>

> The worst part is that the OP admits he went and found a team ... so what's the problem here? What is the thread about? Are we supposed to make a thread everytime we team with necro? Not sure what that accomplishes.

 

In other games, when people complain, there is definitely some reaction from the staff of said MMO, especially if its a lot of angry people.

 

Anytime necro is felt to be too strong, there are plenty of voices, and anytime necro players feel like they are at too much a severe advantage, they complain on the forum, and there are quite a lot of angry necros about the scourge thing.

 

Lastly: What I am asking for, is to make necros fun.I am not asking to nerf every class so that necro stands out, and I don't want them to be overpowered, just powerful enough that in regular fractals, cms and raids I can be taken, not ignored and insulted because I am a necro.

 

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > If there is a problem with something that is unbalanced as in underpowered or something of the like, then the only way to get that across, is to post on a forum while playing the game and giving out ideas about what to change, with others like that.(As long as we are respectful) So as long as we enact in civil discourse, then we are fine.

> > >

> > ... and how well do you think that works? I mean, express opinions but if anyone thinks that Anet hasn't already got the message, there is something wrong with how that person thinks.

> >

> > Again, the balancing is either so slow or semi-random, that the idea people take the extra care to team with classes they want to play is not an unreasonable response to the thread. Hundreds of compounding complaint threads do not get people what they want (this much should be obvious to ever single person by now); learning to team with their chosen class does.

> >

> > The worst part is that the OP admits he went and found a team ... so what's the problem here? What is the thread about? Are we supposed to make a thread everytime we team with necro? Not sure what that accomplishes.

>

> In other games, when people complain, there is definitely some reaction from the staff of said MMO, especially if its a lot of angry people.

>

> Anytime necro is felt to be too strong, there are plenty of voices, and anytime necro players feel like they are at too much a severe advantage, they complain on the forum, and there are quite a lot of angry necros about the scourge thing.

>

> Lastly: What I am asking for, is to make necros fun.I am not asking to nerf every class so that necro stands out, and I don't want them to be overpowered, just powerful enough that in regular fractals, cms and raids I can be taken, not ignored and insulted because I am a necro.

>

 

So what makes you think Anet isn't responding? If you think they don't, then what makes you think adding another complaint thread is an effective method to get what you want? Again, how well do you think this is working? I've played other games ... they aren't any different than this one in how they develop the game. Anet is not exceptional. Lastly, what is fun doesn't necessarily mean balanced, and is subjective anyways. If it's not fun for you, that's not an Anet problem; they can't make every part of the game fun for every player.

 

The OP was given advice to address his problem,and even admits he got a team and completed the content anyways. Still can't figure out what this thread exists, other than exhibiting that he wants to play how he wants while completely disregarding other people that want to play how they want. What this thread illustrates is basically nothing; we know how necro's are treated and know some teams will kick on sight. If you don't like being treated that way, you have to learn how to team with the class; that's not exceptional to necro either. You have to learn to team with EVERY class in this game; meta changes all the time. If you want to just join PUG groups that want optimal classes, they can picky about how they want to play and you have to respect that's OK for them to be that way, unlike the OP.

[DragonFury.6243]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > If there is a problem with something that is unbalanced as in underpowered or something of the like, then the only way to get that across, is to post on a forum while playing the game and giving out ideas about what to change, with others like that.(As long as we are respectful) So as long as we enact in civil discourse, then we are fine.

> > > >

> > > ... and how well do you think that works? I mean, express opinions but if anyone thinks that Anet hasn't already got the message, there is something wrong with how that person thinks.

> > >

> > > Again, the balancing is either so slow or semi-random, that the idea people take the extra care to team with classes they want to play is not an unreasonable response to the thread. Hundreds of compounding complaint threads do not get people what they want (this much should be obvious to ever single person by now); learning to team with their chosen class does.

> > >

> > > The worst part is that the OP admits he went and found a team ... so what's the problem here? What is the thread about? Are we supposed to make a thread everytime we team with necro? Not sure what that accomplishes.

> >

> > In other games, when people complain, there is definitely some reaction from the staff of said MMO, especially if its a lot of angry people.

> >

> > Anytime necro is felt to be too strong, there are plenty of voices, and anytime necro players feel like they are at too much a severe advantage, they complain on the forum, and there are quite a lot of angry necros about the scourge thing.

> >

> > Lastly: What I am asking for, is to make necros fun.I am not asking to nerf every class so that necro stands out, and I don't want them to be overpowered, just powerful enough that in regular fractals, cms and raids I can be taken, not ignored and insulted because I am a necro.

> >

>

> So what makes you think Anet isn't responding? If you think they don't, then what makes you think adding another complaint thread is an effective method to get what you want? Again, how well do you think this is working? I've played other games ... they aren't any different than this one in how they develop the game. Anet is not exceptional. Lastly, what is fun doesn't necessarily mean balanced, and is subjective anyways. If it's not fun for you, that's not an Anet problem; they can't make every part of the game fun for every player.

>

> The OP was given advice to address his problem,and even admits he got a team and completed the content anyways. Still can't figure out what this thread exists, other than exhibiting that he wants to play how he wants while completely disregarding other people that want to play how they want. What this thread illustrates is basically nothing; we know how necro's are treated and know some teams will kick on sight. If you don't like being treated that way, you have to learn how to team with the class; that's not exceptional to necro either. You have to learn to team with EVERY class in this game; meta changes all the time. If you want to just join PUG groups that want optimal classes, they can picky about how they want to play and you have to respect that's OK for them to be that way, unlike the OP.

 

player want to play how they want which mean no necro then why we have necro in pve

you keep ignore the fact that their is a profession in the game that have no role in end game content

and you think that i completed the content with the necro 2nd time no i did not i had to change to my holo as the toxic comander said necro is no way good as any profession in the game


the word you cant see is any profession