Healing output comparison after the new patch

[messiah.1908]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> Comparing healing output without context isn't a good idea. Fights usually have an ebb and flow to them so having spikes of healing available and sustain is very important. However there's more to it, application and reapplication of boons needs to be taken into account as well as damage mitigation for the group. There's a reason guardians and now firebrands are so prominent, they can not only heal and cleanse but apply and reapply important boons like stability and stunbreak for allies.

>

> Then there's the elephant in the room, when you're fighting vs 20+ you're either taking a boat load of damage (too much to really outheal) or you're taking very little damage because you're properly dodging the bombs.

>

> Also one of the best heals for you is actually winning the rally war, for this I find having a few weavers/rev properly making sure the downs die quickly can be invaluable but that won't show in any combat log.

 

i agree. FB are good for stability and stun break and not for their main heal abilities which is low compare to other classes. boons application as regen and protection department belong to herald along side with sustain and burst heal. but again the context here is the easiness to pull the heal off (as tablet needs to move)

while scrapper has great abilities to cleanse but boons comes from cleanse and cannot be controlled while have super speed. and ele is doing comeback with aura share and sustain healing.

if your team is weak your FB wont be able to outheal the group. than you'll need rev or scrapper with you to sustain the group.

if your team is small compare to enemies again you will need better sustain and burst heal. so taking another FB or REV . the answer is rev as fb wont add much to the group if already you have 1 in each team.

 

 

but again looking the support class without context can make an easy job to identify the easy class to play (rev) , the best class which heal, cleanse, support etc..

 

[Dediggefedde.4961]

> @"messiah.1908" said:

> how you manage to cleanse them every second?

altruism rune will draw 1 condition of 5 people in a 600 radius around you to yourself when using your elite skill.

packing and stowing the mortar kit each triggers this rune. and That is on a 1s CD. Furthermore the rune also triggers comeback cure for regeneration on those 5 and purity of purpose for applying boons. By keeping the elite button pressed you can indefinitely trigger the rune every 5s, but also basically get 5 times the conditions as usually.

I'm still a fan of this since it improves the boon output, works nicely against zerg-wide soft-CC and reduces the cleanses needed in the zerg.

[messiah.1908]

> @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> > @"messiah.1908" said:

> > how you manage to cleanse them every second?

> altruism rune will draw 1 condition of 5 people in a 600 radius around you to yourself when using your elite skill.

> packing and stowing the mortar kit each triggers this rune. and That is on a 1s CD. Furthermore the rune also triggers comeback cure for regeneration on those 5 and purity of purpose for applying boons. By keeping the elite button pressed you can indefinitely trigger the rune every 5s, but also basically get 5 times the conditions as usually.

> I'm still a fan of this since it improves the boon output, works nicely against zerg-wide soft-CC and reduces the cleanses needed in the zerg.

 

i mean how do you manage to cleanse the condition off you once draw them from allies...

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"messiah.1908" said:

> > @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> > > @"messiah.1908" said:

> > > how you manage to cleanse them every second?

> > altruism rune will draw 1 condition of 5 people in a 600 radius around you to yourself when using your elite skill.

> > packing and stowing the mortar kit each triggers this rune. and That is on a 1s CD. Furthermore the rune also triggers comeback cure for regeneration on those 5 and purity of purpose for applying boons. By keeping the elite button pressed you can indefinitely trigger the rune every 5s, but also basically get 5 times the conditions as usually.

> > I'm still a fan of this since it improves the boon output, works nicely against zerg-wide soft-CC and reduces the cleanses needed in the zerg.

>

> i mean how do you manage to cleanse the condition off you once draw them from allies...

... All your condi cleanse which you have a ton of? Plus you got enough heals to sustain it until time out most of the time.

 

[Dediggefedde.4961]

> @"messiah.1908" said:

> i mean how do you manage to cleanse the condition off you once draw them from allies...

 

Depends on the amount of conditions.

Since you get a sample of whats floating around, you can differentiate between someone getting sniped (few conditions, high stacks), the zerg receiving a condi bomb (high stacks many conditions) and just some stray conditions (chilling fog, cripple from ac/hunter-bow).

For few conditions I try to bear with them, since I can catch up with superspeed. If it becomes too much, I use Elixir-Gun-5 or a light-blast-finisher. If someone get's sniped, I identify the ally via squad-monitor, take a second to see if the damage is done by conditions or direct hits, use Elixir-Gun-3 in the former or Medikit-2 in the latter case. If we are bombed, I ready myself to distribute all condi clears at the critical positions and don't bother too much about my own condition removal, since it's taken care of by the way. If you go low, F1 will also remove a condition. With F5, EG-4 and Medikit-5 you should also have enough blast finisher to utilize light-fields.

And if you manage to get all of your cleanse and blast skills are on cooldown while being at middle HP just before the enemy bombs you, you should simply stop using this skill for some seconds. It's not like you are forced to draw conditions to yourself.

 

And if all fails, there is usually a guard in my group, so I can save a bit of cleanses with resistance or their cleanses.

By the way: since you draw the conditions to yourself, your and other groups requires less cleanses overall, which will make it more likely for you to get hit by their cleanses.

 

However, I guess one also needs to stay pretty calm using this rune. It's amazing how little damage 40 stacks of bleeding or 20 stacks of agony can do, if your healing is running and the source is not condi-specced. So, take a moment (1-2s) to analyze the effect of the conditions and only react immediately to poison (you're the healer), and movement impeding conditions (to increase group movement).

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"Dediggefedde.4961" said:

> > @"messiah.1908" said:

> > how you manage to cleanse them every second?

> altruism rune will draw 1 condition of 5 people in a 600 radius around you to yourself when using your elite skill.

> packing and stowing the mortar kit each triggers this rune. and That is on a 1s CD. Furthermore the rune also triggers comeback cure for regeneration on those 5 and purity of purpose for applying boons. By keeping the elite button pressed you can indefinitely trigger the rune every 5s, but also basically get 5 times the conditions as usually.

> I'm still a fan of this since it improves the boon output, works nicely against zerg-wide soft-CC and reduces the cleanses needed in the zerg.

 

wow lol pretty cool man.

[messiah.1908]

i try out the aura share ele . came with nice moments of 4-6k hps in average. dmg reduction of 10% with frost aura, protection another 10% dmg reduction, reflect and daze with auras. nice utilities which can be good from small to medium group.

[messiah.1908]

so new patch makes chrono obsolete and FB with higher cd and herald buff with more healing output.

 

rev regen is 1200 tick with monk rune full buff (mine is 2060 healing ouput)

perma protection and regen, burst heal and nice cleanse abilities

 

passive heal with true nature passive centaur and regen itself are 2k hps per ally.

 

i think 1 support rev is needed in wvw in 20 man group

 

your thoughts?

[RisenHowl.2419]

> @"messiah.1908" said:

> so new patch makes chrono obsolete and FB with higher cd and herald buff with more healing output.

>

> rev regen is 1200 tick with monk rune full buff (mine is 2060 healing ouput)

> perma protection and regen, burst heal and nice cleanse abilities

>

> passive heal with true nature passive centaur and regen itself are 2k hps per ally.

>

> i think 1 support rev is needed in wvw in 20 man group

>

> your thoughts?

 

It's over 10k hps with ventari f2 + elevated compassion + moving the tablet every 3s

[messiah.1908]

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > @"messiah.1908" said:

> > so new patch makes chrono obsolete and FB with higher cd and herald buff with more healing output.

> >

> > rev regen is 1200 tick with monk rune full buff (mine is 2060 healing ouput)

> > perma protection and regen, burst heal and nice cleanse abilities

> >

> > passive heal with true nature passive centaur and regen itself are 2k hps per ally.

> >

> > i think 1 support rev is needed in wvw in 20 man group

> >

> > your thoughts?

>

> It's over 10k hps with ventari f2 + elevated compassion + moving the tablet every 3s

 

on 5 man yes . on each ally its 2k with regen and true nature itself

true nature is 2700 every 3 sec (900 hps), elevated compassion is 1800 every 3 sec (600 hps) moving the tablet is 3300 every 3 sec (1100 hps) , regen 1100 hps, passive tablet is 900 every 3 sec ( 300 hps)

 

so total hps is 4000 !!! on one ally in theory.

 

during fights i get some where between 5k-9k hps. during the short burst push i get 17k-40k (for 3 sec)

[messiah.1908]

just finish a game with a fellow scrapper and fb with 50 man squad.

i play power rev/jalis - so front line with commander. the healing i got was about 920hps. scrapper heals is low... regen 680, mdf 340, and medblaster 440. other skills not so often. with FB also low hps as most heal used for the spikes.

[Dawdler.8521]

> @"messiah.1908" said:

> just finish a game with a fellow scrapper and fb with 50 man squad.

> i play power rev/jalis - so front line with commander. the healing i got was about 920hps. scrapper heals is low... regen 680, mdf 340, and medblaster 440. other skills not so often. with FB also low hps as most heal used for the spikes.

Of course. The numbers people state is theoretical maxes that wouldnt work outside of a min/maxed stationary PvE raid boss encounter - and I question if they would even reach it there. Healing is as hard to quantify in WvW as dps, especially for classes like the scrapper which focuses on AoE condi cleanse and boon conversion instead of big numbers.

 

[RisenHowl.2419]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"messiah.1908" said:

> > just finish a game with a fellow scrapper and fb with 50 man squad.

> > i play power rev/jalis - so front line with commander. the healing i got was about 920hps. scrapper heals is low... regen 680, mdf 340, and medblaster 440. other skills not so often. with FB also low hps as most heal used for the spikes.

> Of course. The numbers people state is theoretical maxes that wouldnt work outside of a min/maxed stationary PvE raid boss encounter - and I question if they would even reach it there. Healing is as hard to quantify in WvW as dps, especially for classes like the scrapper which focuses on AoE condi cleanse and boon conversion instead of big numbers.

>

 

Run arcdps, you can record your healing output in realime to see the actual output. Scrapper and Herald are both consistently over 10k hps

[messiah.1908]

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > @"messiah.1908" said:

> > > just finish a game with a fellow scrapper and fb with 50 man squad.

> > > i play power rev/jalis - so front line with commander. the healing i got was about 920hps. scrapper heals is low... regen 680, mdf 340, and medblaster 440. other skills not so often. with FB also low hps as most heal used for the spikes.

> > Of course. The numbers people state is theoretical maxes that wouldnt work outside of a min/maxed stationary PvE raid boss encounter - and I question if they would even reach it there. Healing is as hard to quantify in WvW as dps, especially for classes like the scrapper which focuses on AoE condi cleanse and boon conversion instead of big numbers.

> >

>

> Run arcdps, you can record your healing output in realime to see the actual output. Scrapper and Herald are both consistently over 10k hps

 

lately my scrapper much below than it used to be . less super speed procs due to the change in the trait. while herald easily 10k hps just with regen itself

[messiah.1908]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > @"messiah.1908" said:

> > just finish a game with a fellow scrapper and fb with 50 man squad.

> > i play power rev/jalis - so front line with commander. the healing i got was about 920hps. scrapper heals is low... regen 680, mdf 340, and medblaster 440. other skills not so often. with FB also low hps as most heal used for the spikes.

> Of course. The numbers people state is theoretical maxes that wouldnt work outside of a min/maxed stationary PvE raid boss encounter - and I question if they would even reach it there. Healing is as hard to quantify in WvW as dps, especially for classes like the scrapper which focuses on AoE condi cleanse and boon conversion instead of big numbers.

>

 

for me nothing is theory- i use acrdps and check my skills heal output and hps on real fights. my regen proc the above states.

sure some fight i get 3k hps which my team is winning due to larger numbers or good tactics. but when the squad get outnumbered i get the results i aim for

[RisenHowl.2419]

You can also use arcdps to check how many cleanses you do over a fight

[messiah.1908]

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> You can also use arcdps to check how many cleanses you do over a fight

 

unforchenatly not that many as the scrapper or FB as the cleanse abilities consuming nrg while the FB is a bit sufficient for a 2 min fight. also the meta shifted to power

[RisenHowl.2419]

> @"messiah.1908" said:

> > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > You can also use arcdps to check how many cleanses you do over a fight

>

> unforchenatly not that many as the scrapper or FB as the cleanse abilities consuming nrg while the FB is a bit sufficient for a 2 min fight. also the meta shifted to power

 

Removing weakness, vuln, chill etc is a big boost to group damage. Cleansing remains a big part of the meta

[messiah.1908]

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > @"messiah.1908" said:

> > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > You can also use arcdps to check how many cleanses you do over a fight

> >

> > unforchenatly not that many as the scrapper or FB as the cleanse abilities consuming nrg while the FB is a bit sufficient for a 2 min fight. also the meta shifted to power

>

> Removing weakness, vuln, chill etc is a big boost to group damage. Cleansing remains a big part of the meta

 

its a soft cleanse . usually my team and me see low stacks of vulnerability so 2% more dmg. , weakness is nice but cant be control with all the easy application of it. and chill is just for movement

the main boost come from boons and dmg reduction and reflect.

[RisenHowl.2419]

> @"messiah.1908" said:

> > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > @"messiah.1908" said:

> > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > You can also use arcdps to check how many cleanses you do over a fight

> > >

> > > unforchenatly not that many as the scrapper or FB as the cleanse abilities consuming nrg while the FB is a bit sufficient for a 2 min fight. also the meta shifted to power

> >

> > Removing weakness, vuln, chill etc is a big boost to group damage. Cleansing remains a big part of the meta

>

> its a soft cleanse . usually my team and me see low stacks of vulnerability so 2% more dmg. , weakness is nice but cant be control with all the easy application of it. and chill is just for movement

> the main boost come from boons and dmg reduction and reflect.

 

Scrapper converts back into boons to boot, so cleansing soft conditions grants might, prot, and alacrity etc. Which is a big gain to damage.

 

Are we arguing or agreeing?

[messiah.1908]

> @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > @"messiah.1908" said:

> > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > @"messiah.1908" said:

> > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said:

> > > > > You can also use arcdps to check how many cleanses you do over a fight

> > > >

> > > > unforchenatly not that many as the scrapper or FB as the cleanse abilities consuming nrg while the FB is a bit sufficient for a 2 min fight. also the meta shifted to power

> > >

> > > Removing weakness, vuln, chill etc is a big boost to group damage. Cleansing remains a big part of the meta

> >

> > its a soft cleanse . usually my team and me see low stacks of vulnerability so 2% more dmg. , weakness is nice but cant be control with all the easy application of it. and chill is just for movement

> > the main boost come from boons and dmg reduction and reflect.

>

> Scrapper converts back into boons to boot, so cleansing soft conditions grants might, prot, and alacrity etc. Which is a big gain to damage.

>

> Are we arguing or agreeing?

 

i am not argue nor agree. just clarify. scrapper cant control which boon he gives or when to give it. lets say the group need protection for the push . he cant control it rather cleanse and some will get it also for short duration.

 

so yes scrapper is master of cleanse but has less burst healing and has amazing small sustain healing ability. he cant control which boon to give. his regen ticks for 600 which is low compare to rev (1000-1200) but he has reflect and stability and super speed (which got shorten)

for gvg he is a must for its unrevealing ability. but for wvw i dont think he has a place atm and only nice to have.

[messiah.1908]

here is short video from last night reset (1-3 sec lag but the passive heal ticks)

 

hope you like it

 

[Xterra.6172]

chill also makes your cooldowns 40% slower.

[messiah.1908]

> @"Xterra.6172" said:

> chill also makes your cooldowns 40% slower.

 

and alacrity higher.... didnt get your point :D

[shortcake.8659]

pretty poor hps output in comparison to scrapper there unless your arcdps is bugged or very outdated, but it's definitely a MUCH easier build to play. You don't swap legends nearly enough though and I'd adjust a couple traits, could bump it up a good bit. My rev had pretty terrible healing gear but it was still pretty amusing to try.