its time for thieves to gain the medium health pool

[Casiano.2705]

due to continuous nerf to our mechanics its time for us thieves to be at the same level of our other medium health pool counter parts, namely rangers and engineers.

 

we dont have any special tools any more, most specs can stealth and outrun us on the battlefield.

 

base health pool increase may NOT be a good option, but its a start that may spark a change in our community

 

thank you.

 

PS. i still believe that thieves should have no cool down on weapon swap

 

[Blocki.4931]

That's not necessary. Thank you.

 

[Jack Redline.5379]

i mean i saw some seriously disturbing stuff

Warior is atm able to have 37,185 health pool

+ 2,5 k basic power

if you add 25 might to it that is freaking 3,2k power and 37k health

not to mention if they have rampage they can go to full freaking 57k health bar

i saw it

i played it

and it is freaking insane

[KrHome.1920]

> @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> i mean i saw some seriously disturbing stuff

> Warior is atm able to have 37,185 health pool

> + 2,5 k basic power

> if you add 25 might to it that is freaking 3,2k power and 37k health

> not to mention if they have rampage they can go to full freaking 57k health bar

> i saw it

> i played it

> and it is freaking insane

Your warrior example is a damage soaking sponge that can't critical hit! Everyone can facetank your damage. Great!

 

I give you a short lesson in game basics:

Power alone means nothing.

 

If it would, everyone would go full soldier or valkyre. So why do you think no one except 2 builds (radiance guardian and hidden killer deadeye) runs this gear? And these two classes are only allowed to do so by ANet, because they have the lowest base health pool in the game... which bings me to the OP:

 

> @"Oldgrimm.8521" said:

> due to continuous nerf to our mechanics its time for us thieves to be at the same level of our other medium health pool counter parts, namely rangers and engineers.

The game does not know such things like counterparts. The game is about different mechanics and thief is about squishy but highly mobile

 

> we dont have any special tools any more, most specs can stealth and outrun us on the battlefield.

That's a lie.

 

> base health pool increase may NOT be a good option, but its a start that may spark a change in our community

It would make you OP instantly as every thief would go full berserk being able to oneshot his encounter 24/7 while having a comfortable amount of misplay potential.

 

> PS. i still believe that thieves should have no cool down on weapon swap

Okay nevermind, you are just trolling.

 

Bye!

 

 

[Jack Redline.5379]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

 

> Your warrior example is a damage soaking sponge that can't critical hit! Everyone can facetank your damage. Great!

>

> I give you a short lesson in game basics:

> Power alone means nothing.

 

Wow so much [Vial of Salt] i will just say thank you for your game basics but clearly that is where you remained since you clerly dont see beyond these basics. Let me introduce you to mace shield + hammer build on warior. It is not just a dmg soaking sponge. It is actually very powerful build with a lots of CC and a skill warior can be a nightmare for many players that are trying to fight on point such as thief. Yes it has counter plays obviously everything does. But only dued to fact it wont crit it doesnt mater it wont deal tons of dmg. Critical hits are important for clases that gain bonuses from them not for a full time 25 might tank Bull Charging at you.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

In WvW I have valk rings, cele backpiece and the rest marauder, and with vampirism runes that gives me 21k health with decent damage. Even with scholar I've got close to 19k health. I'd say that the issue thief has in fights is a lack of real sustain outside of camping stealth which just got way less appealing due to marked, forcing hit and run gameplay. That's by design tho, and I'm fine with that.

[InsaneQR.7412]

Its time to remove the whole healthpool thing and give all medium health.

Its an old remnant of 2012.

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

Rifle : 1500, unblockable DJ, snipers' cover

Critical strikes : invigorating precision (heal for 20% ofcritical dmg) in a Blieztkrig it's like full life in 1sec. This trait is just ... wow.

Daredevil : dodges ... bandit's shield

Shadowstep, roll for initiative, Signet of agility

 

Won't say you're as tough as a a war, a rev etc, but staff daredevil is viable in zerg, Deadeye can't stay in the melee but you stil can focus some elems and scourges from a safe spot, and tp.

We don't need power(or vitality)creep and get a 20kHP thief with 20K backstab.

[Dawdler.8521]

Just like the low hp ele can build for *insane* sustain that can fight 3+ people, so can the thief. Just because people pick a meta zerker build and die to the first player that looks at them wrong doesnt mean its weak. Skilled thieves are almost immortal already because they can work in hp regen with stealth and they know how to fight.

 

**However** I would accept a fair trade - remove all stealth and bump base hp to 16k. Agreed?

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> Just like the low hp ele can build for *insane* sustain that can fight 3+ people, so can the thief. Just because people pick a meta zerker build and die to the first player that looks at them wrong doesnt mean its weak. Skilled thieves are almost immortal already because they can work in hp regen with stealth and they know how to fight.

>

> **However** I would accept a fair trade - remove all stealth and bump base hp to 16k. Agreed?

 

thats not a fair trade as it would render many traits and skills unusable.

you can may get another condi cleanse if you trade in all your phantasm/clone skills.

[Riko.9214]

Don't think health is the best option, stab/def/res access would be better IMO.

 

But do not expect any buffs though, none of the devs uses thief almost since launch so none of them cares for the state of the class. All they care that it is enough people with no clue spreading nonsense on forums that thiefs are OK and blah blah.

[Razi.6031]

Our health pool is fine. Thiefs aren't made to take hits, they're made to avoid them. Dodges, ports, stealth, blinds. A good thief won't get hit in most of a fight and knows when to time steals as not to waste the heal on mug etc. I run core s/d full marauders with speed runes atm.. and I can dance around enemies all day.. Some people I can't kill due to lack of burst, but it just becomes a stalemate as they are almost incapable of touching me..

 

I fought 2 spellbreakers at once yday.. I danced around them for over 8 min and got one of them to 5% health before I officially was on too many cooldowns and unlucky with improv and got downed on a stun.

 

 

 

[Dadnir.5038]

That's the kind of thread that lead to an e-spec with an option to increase your vitality that nobody's gonna take because "there is better options".

[phs.6089]

+20% HP, can't use stealth- trait.

[NuhDah.9812]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> +20% HP, can't use stealth- trait.

 

How about +20hp and no one besides thieves who dint trait for it in a 1800 units area around you can use stelth - trait? Sounds a bit more like a relevant trait.

[TorQ.7041]

> @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> Rifle : 1500, unblockable DJ, snipers' cover

> Critical strikes : invigorating precision (heal for 20% ofcritical dmg) in a Blieztkrig it's like full life in 1sec. This trait is just ... wow.

> Daredevil : dodges ... bandit's shield

> Shadowstep, roll for initiative, Signet of agility

>

> Won't say you're as tough as a a war, a rev etc, but staff daredevil is viable in zerg, Deadeye can't stay in the melee but you stil can focus some elems and scourges from a safe spot, and tp.

> We don't need power(or vitality)creep and get a 20kHP thief with 20K backstab.

 

Regardless of other stuff aside. I can never understand the DJ unblockable arguement. It's the most telegraphed attack in the game. It literally has a laser on you. It shoots a second after the beam, it's literally more telegraphed then every other attack. That's all the time in the world to dodge it. If you cant dodge a laser beam on you with a beam sound that places. You should really quick the game.

 

U can no longer 1 hit after October nerf. The one hit build was based off of 3x 3 round burst and death's judgement with quickness. Which was op. Ever since 3 round burst got increase to 6 int. It's no longer possible to spam kill with it because you don't have the int to make the last shot.

 

At most it would take 2-3 seconds. Assuming your opponent is stuipd and can't block or dodge 3 round bursts.

 

Most of the time the moment u feels hit u can press a reflect button and charge the DE. A DE simply can't repeat the same burst instantly cos no int.

 

U really have to have to be bronze lvl to die to DE all the time.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

No weaponswap cd. Suuuuuure.

[Clyan.1593]

Isn't thief that one class that will annoy you to death in PVP?

That one class that can endlessly stealth and down you with a little burst dmg and then go back into stealth?

 

How about we first fix this mess and THEN adjust your healthpool?

[Turk.5460]

> @"KrHome.1920" said:

> It would make you OP instantly as every thief would go full berserk being able to oneshot his encounter 24/7 while having a comfortable amount of misplay potential.

What. You really think that adding 3k hp (A single auto attack for many adversaries) would make Thieves "OP instantly"? That's the only thing holding us back? A little HP? ::BIG THINK::

[Zhaid Zhem.6508]

> @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > @"Zhaid Zhem.6508" said:

> > Rifle : 1500, unblockable DJ, snipers' cover

> > Critical strikes : invigorating precision (heal for 20% ofcritical dmg) in a Blieztkrig it's like full life in 1sec. This trait is just ... wow.

> > Daredevil : dodges ... bandit's shield

> > Shadowstep, roll for initiative, Signet of agility

> >

> > Won't say you're as tough as a a war, a rev etc, but staff daredevil is viable in zerg, Deadeye can't stay in the melee but you stil can focus some elems and scourges from a safe spot, and tp.

> > We don't need power(or vitality)creep and get a 20kHP thief with 20K backstab.

>

> Regardless of other stuff aside. I can never understand the DJ unblockable arguement. It's the most telegraphed attack in the game. It literally has a laser on you. It shoots a second after the beam, it's literally more telegraphed then every other attack. That's all the time in the world to dodge it. If you cant dodge a laser beam on you with a beam sound that places. You should really quick the game.

>

> U can no longer 1 hit after October nerf. The one hit build was based off of 3x 3 round burst and death's judgement with quickness. Which was op. Ever since 3 round burst got increase to 6 int. It's no longer possible to spam kill with it because you don't have the int to make the last shot.

>

> At most it would take 2-3 seconds. Assuming your opponent is stuipd and can't block or dodge 3 round bursts.

>

> Most of the time the moment u feels hit u can press a reflect button and charge the DE. A DE simply can't repeat the same burst instantly cos no int.

>

> U really have to have to be bronze lvl to die to DE all the time.

 

 

 

Because we're not all the same doing the same rotation (stealth 3sec, Dj, kite, stealth during 3sec) regardless enemy stamina, buff, class specifities : evades, tp, etc. Some guys count the dodges, the enemy's cd, trigger passve effect, put pressure at melee to oblige weapon swap or some skills then back to range etc; I know it's stupid; some newbies certainly who don't know how OP is thief; just spam #2 rifle and stealth attack.

Because in group you can't pay that much attention to everything arround you, specially what you don't see. Because you can OS downed people, because Elem and others have cast times, because it taunts people who blocks.

[pureskullz.7536]

Most I notice we might possibly need as a step in the right direction is possibly a rework on some traits and a burst increase that's minor on our core weapon sets.

[eldrjth.7384]

Thief also has decent HP sustain if traited with Invigorating precision+Signet of malice, so that somewhat balances its low HP pool. It also has more dodge/evades than other classes too. I can typically stay alive in situations that would kill other guys in fractals when I play DD since I use a lot of vaults+dodges which can avoid getting one shotted.

 

As for the guy who suggested that stealth be removed in order to bring HP up, maybe start by taking access to stealth away from higher HP base medium classes like ranger and engineer first. So things like smoke field and blast finishers can be removed from engineer kit. Stealth is more an integral part of thief and it would require a redesign to balance out. Though I wouldnt mind a redesign.

[Isle of Stars.3049]

I'm fine with the current setup of having a low health pool with access to mobility and the ability to engage-disengage on demand. The challenges of playing this class never bore me.

[Turk.5460]

> @"eldrjth.7384" said:

> Thief also has decent HP sustain if traited with Invigorating precision+Signet of malice, so that somewhat balances its low HP pool. It also has more dodge/evades than other classes too. I can typically stay alive in situations that would kill other guys in fractals when I play DD since I use a lot of vaults+dodges which can avoid getting one shotted.

>

> As for the guy who suggested that stealth be removed in order to bring HP up, maybe start by taking access to stealth away from higher HP base medium classes like ranger and engineer first. So things like smoke field and blast finishers can be removed from engineer kit. Stealth is more an integral part of thief and it would require a redesign to balance out. Though I wouldnt mind a redesign.

 

Those are strictly PvE traits. Health pool balancing shouldn't revolve around what may see use in PvE