Inventories still full of runes/sigils, accessibility of different builds and rift between players

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"zencow.3651" said:

> > @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> > The question now is: should Arenanet spend ressources on addressing a problem which is an issue to you and some very very few dedicated players, or should they spend those ressources on something else?

>

> Could they explore the issue and solve it by implementing a different way as horizontal progression to give dedicated players more stuff to do that's also beneficial for their game economy? That's their job to worry about.

>

> Our role as forum debaters is to help them to see the problem from different perspectives.

 

That is true actually.

 

As I said, I agree this is an issue which could be handled more elegantly. I doubt it is a high priority issue at the moment though.

 

In the end, this is something which likely will or should be addressed when/if build templates get added to the game. Makes no real sense to approach this issue earlier.

[Turkeyspit.3965]

The drop down menu is what needs to happen, speaking as someone who has no legendary items.

 

Once you insert a rune or sigil into a legendary it is consumed, and then unlocks it in a drop down menu. After that whenever you change the stats you can change the rune/sigil at the same time. There is no logical reason to not do this, outside of technical limitations on ANET's part.

 

[CeNedro.7560]

By making exotic sigills/runes being consumeable by legendary weapons/armour they would take away the option to make legendary runes/sigills. So this most likely will never happen untill there is a legendary sigill/rune.

[Etterwyn.5263]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> At this point I'm thinking a better solution would be to remove sigils which are so niche they're more hassle to carry around than they're worth.

 

Or just have a Superior Sigil of Dungeoneering and get rid of all the creature-specific ones.

[phs.6089]

> @"Etterwyn.5263" said:

> > @"Danikat.8537" said:

> > At this point I'm thinking a better solution would be to remove sigils which are so niche they're more hassle to carry around than they're worth.

>

> Or just have a Superior Sigil of Dungeoneering and get rid of all the creature-specific ones.

 

Daytime Dungeoneer Slayer and Nighttime Dungeoneer Slayer, Gah :)

[trixantea.1230]

I like OP's idea. It will make legendary weapons more appealing to craft.

[Reverielle.3972]

It's just not needed.

Just because we can do something, does not mean we should. In this particular case it leads to the creation of a problem that in reality isn't really one.

As is said: prevention is better than cure, and such very much applies here I think.

 

[zencow.3651]

> @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> It's just not needed.

> Just because we can do something, does not mean we should. In this particular case it leads to the creation of a problem that in reality isn't really one.

> As is said: prevention is better than cure, and such very much applies here I think.

>

 

The redundancy of legendary WvW/PvP legendary armor is actually a very valid problem that can be helped somewhat by this change. They literally exist as resource sinks to buy convenience since they give no added aesthetic value. However, what ends up happening is:

1) people don't want to clog their inventory/storage with runes anyway.

2) it's still much faster to change characters to change builds than swap out every trait and piece of armor (build templates please).

 

So they end up cashing WvW tickets and Ascended Shards of Glory on ascended gear for multiple characters of the same profession instead.

[Mithos.9023]

Or arenanet could introduce build templates, creating a way to manage runes, sigils, stats and gear in general in a complete package for each character or the whole account instead of creating upgradeabel weapons or some legendary upgrade components who again would only solve a marginal small part of the gw2 build managing problem.

So in my opinion this would be a waste of resources. Better tackle the problem as a whole.

[Danikat.8537]

> @"Mithos.9023" said:

> Or arenanet could introduce build templates, creating a way to manage runes, sigils, stats and gear in general in a complete package for each character or the whole account instead of creating upgradeabel weapons or some legendary upgrade components who again would only solve a marginal small part of the gw2 build managing problem.

> So in my opinion this would be a waste of resources. Better tackle the problem as a whole.

 

Build templates wouldn't solve the storage issue though - you'd still have to have the weapons, armour, upgrades etc. you want to use. It would just make it quicker to switch from one set to another.

[zencow.3651]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> As I said, I agree this is an issue which could be handled more elegantly. I doubt it is a high priority issue at the moment though.

>

> In the end, this is something which likely will or should be addressed when/if build templates get added to the game. Makes no real sense to approach this issue earlier.

 

> @"Mithos.9023" said:

> Or arenanet could introduce build templates, creating a way to manage runes, sigils, stats and gear in general in a complete package for each character or the whole account instead of creating upgradeabel weapons or some legendary upgrade components who again would only solve a marginal small part of the gw2 build managing problem.

> So in my opinion this would be a waste of resources. Better tackle the problem as a whole.

 

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

> Build templates wouldn't solve the storage issue though - you'd still have to have the weapons, armour, upgrades etc. you want to use. It would just make it quicker to switch from one set to another.

 

Thank you for your contributions, I think we're digging deeper and getting a bigger picture of the problem now.

There's two facts in contention here:

1) The MAJORITY of people DON'T like to carry/clog up their storage with extra weapons/armor, sigils and runes.

Yet

2) A LOT of people want build templates to make things more convenient but that would only be useful if they had access to/were carrying enough different builds on them in the first place for the build templates pull out to be relevant.

 

So we have quite a convoluted situation going on here as 1) is such a major inconvenience we have a rift between the more chill players who don't bother with carrying the extra stuff and the population of fanatics like myself who do. If that's the case then if we were to only consider the majority of people who DON'T care, 2) would NEVER be satisfied because by those standards it's not relevant enough to the majority who can't use it anyway.

 

Would it then be more realistic to implement incremental solutions or restructure the whole gear system?

 

And to the people who DON'T think any of this matters, another point of design to consider:

Maybe I am looking at this wrong but wouldn't greater accessibility to different builds facilitate player exploration and create better quality players to close the 'rift' between the so-called casuals and elitists?

 

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Is there really a rift? I've rarely seen any contention about this issue, as this issue rarely is discussed.

[Elspereth.1280]

> @"zencow.3651" said:

> And to the people who DON'T think any of this matters, another point of design to consider:

> Maybe I am looking at this wrong but wouldn't greater accessibility to different builds facilitate player exploration and create better quality players to close the 'rift' between the so-called casuals and elitists?

>

Speaking only for myself, I don't think so. I am a casual player in attitude (timewise I play 4-5 hours everyday so that isn't really casual and I have 11 level 80s of 7 different professions) and I have no interest in meta builds, good rotations, best equipment, high DPS (in other words, I don't care if I don't "git gud"). I just like playing the game. Admittedly I am strictly an open world player with no interest in pvp, raids, fractals or wvw so I can get by with a mix of exotics and ascended equipment (working on crafting so I can make my own stuff).

 

It would be my guess that there are a lot of players like me.

[zencow.3651]

> @"Inculpatus cedo.9234" said:

> Is there really a rift? I've rarely seen any contention about this issue, as this issue rarely is discussed.

 

Depends on how you look at it really. There's no contention really but the separation is there like players in their own worlds (except when they do meet and the pedantic side turns off the other side from the format forever and ever).

 

For what's relevant to this thread, at this point, we have dying interests in fractals/raids/WvW and filthy rich SW/Istan farmers and PvPers/Wvers who are sitting on billions of tickets who caaaan be facilitated into stepping foot into different modes of play/teamplay to wield their legendaries in different ways but it's really just a small part of it.

 

All I know is build templates made end-game content in GW1 much easier to access BUT it never had the intricacies of gear like GW2 to confound the issue further rather than just a simple matter of traits and utilities.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Elspereth.1280" said:

> > @"zencow.3651" said:

> > And to the people who DON'T think any of this matters, another point of design to consider:

> > Maybe I am looking at this wrong but wouldn't greater accessibility to different builds facilitate player exploration and create better quality players to close the 'rift' between the so-called casuals and elitists?

> >

> Speaking only for myself, I don't think so. I am a casual player in attitude (timewise I play 4-5 hours everyday so that isn't really casual and I have 11 level 80s of 7 different professions) and I have no interest in meta builds, good rotations, best equipment, high DPS (in other words, I don't care if I don't "git gud"). I just like playing the game. Admittedly I am strictly an open world player with no interest in pvp, raids, fractals or wvw so I can get by with a mix of exotics and ascended equipment (working on crafting so I can make my own stuff).

>

> It would be my guess that there are a lot of players like me.

 

the vast majority of players are just like you i would hazard to say, which isnt a bad thing as you honestly *arent* as bad as you think.

[Elspereth.1280]

> @"Dante.1763" said:

> > @"Elspereth.1280" said:

> > > @"zencow.3651" said:

> > > And to the people who DON'T think any of this matters, another point of design to consider:

> > > Maybe I am looking at this wrong but wouldn't greater accessibility to different builds facilitate player exploration and create better quality players to close the 'rift' between the so-called casuals and elitists?

> > >

> > Speaking only for myself, I don't think so. I am a casual player in attitude (timewise I play 4-5 hours everyday so that isn't really casual and I have 11 level 80s of 7 different professions) and I have no interest in meta builds, good rotations, best equipment, high DPS (in other words, I don't care if I don't "git gud"). I just like playing the game. Admittedly I am strictly an open world player with no interest in pvp, raids, fractals or wvw so I can get by with a mix of exotics and ascended equipment (working on crafting so I can make my own stuff).

> >

> > It would be my guess that there are a lot of players like me.

>

> the vast majority of players are just like you i would hazard to say, which isnt a bad thing as you honestly *arent* as bad as you think.

 

Actually I am hoping I am more or less an average player. Currently putting my characters through HOT and finding that challenging but not frustrating.

[Shagaliscious.6281]

> @"zencow.3651" said:

> Don't WvW servers die out because players insist on using their own because it's more convenient so the more 'hard-core' fight guilds leave?

>

 

Nope, if that was the case every WVW server would have died out a long time ago, because the vast majority of players do not run meta builds.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"zencow.3651" said:

> Isn't this a major hurdle for players who want to play in groups that demand certain builds?

 

maybe ... but then again, this is just more evidence that there is no expectation from the game development side that demands certain builds ... that's a player driven requirement.

 

maybe that's part of the reason why we haven't seen build templates implemented; it encourages demand for certain builds be met, which is not inline with how the game is designed in the first place. /shrug

 

[Reverielle.3972]

> @"zencow.3651" said:

> > @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > It's just not needed.

> > Just because we can do something, does not mean we should. In this particular case it leads to the creation of a problem that in reality isn't really one.

> > As is said: prevention is better than cure, and such very much applies here I think.

> >

>

> The redundancy of legendary WvW/PvP legendary armor is actually a very valid problem that can be helped somewhat by this change. They literally exist as resource sinks to buy convenience since they give no added aesthetic value. However, what ends up happening is:

> 1) people don't want to clog their inventory/storage with runes anyway.

> 2) it's still much faster to change characters to change builds than swap out every trait and piece of armor (build templates please).

>

> So they end up cashing WvW tickets and Ascended Shards of Glory on ascended gear for multiple characters of the same profession instead.

 

As someone that has legendary PvP armour, I disagree. The only thing I'd really like to see is to be able to change stats on legendary armour/weapons, without having to unequip them first.

[LaGranse.8652]

> @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> As someone that has legendary PvP armour, I disagree. The only thing I'd really like to see is to be able to change stats on legendary armour/weapons, without having to unequip them first.

 

Double-click the armor piece, works for me.

 

 

[Reverielle.3972]

> @"LaGranse.8652" said:

> > @"Reverielle.3972" said:

> > As someone that has legendary PvP armour, I disagree. The only thing I'd really like to see is to be able to change stats on legendary armour/weapons, without having to unequip them first.

>

> Double-click the armor piece, works for me.

>

>

Oh great, thank you.

 

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Adding more info to items is often a bad solution. Then you have to worry about who has what, and items themselves become inflated with data.

 

Also, Legendary gear should not be needed for anything at all. While legendary gear should keep unique abilities, a QoL feature like switching between stats and upgrades should not be unique to it.

Having access to all stats and switching for free should stay free for legendary gear, but the switching itself should not be unique to legendary gear.

And ascended reforging in the mystic forge isn't switching, and it's too much of a hassle too.

 

Account-wide or character-based unlocks are better.

 

Before we can have proper build templates, we need stats and upgrades to become unlockable with a system that coexists with the current systems, that guaranteed continuous costs and item sinks, and that won't force anyone to have full legendary sets, or even full ascended.

 

Making upgrades salvageable was a great first step towards this.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"zencow.3651" said:

> Maybe I am looking at this wrong but wouldn't greater accessibility to different builds facilitate player exploration and create better quality players to close the 'rift' between the so-called casuals and elitists?

It would help with the first one, definitely. The second one, however... i doubt that. For the most part that rift is caused by differences of opinion and playing style, not by skill and access to meta gear.

 

 

[Mithos.9023]

> @"Danikat.8537" said:

>

> Build templates wouldn't solve the storage issue though - you'd still have to have the weapons, armour, upgrades etc. you want to use. It would just make it quicker to switch from one set to another.

 

Not necessarily. Have a look at MithranArkanere.8957 last comment. He described, what I had in mind. With upgrades becoming unlocks one way or another the storage issue would be solved.

Yes next time I have to write my thoughts out, but when ever I see someone suggesting the legendary upgrades, or upgrade able weapons it makes me so angry, as these in general are such a bad attempt to fix this problem.

 

 

[Cristalyan.5728]

> @"zencow.3651" said:

> Even with legendary sigil swap update and the rune/sigil rework, just carrying around the following set for maximal power DPS performance in fractals/dungeons etc takes a significant amount if inventory slot, then you also have condi/support and roaming builds for WvW that benefits from runes and sigils. A non-comprehensive list of common gear for PvE that can help reach DPS benchmarks and others that are advised or REQUESTED FOR by between different WvW guilds as 'Guild Builds' include:

>

> PVE:

> Main Damage Sigils:

> Superior Sigil of the Night, Impact, Force, Air

>

> Niche Slaying Sigils (most relevant to least):

> Superior Sigil of Serpent Slaying (CM 99), Mad Scientists (CM 100)

>

> Superior Sigil of Demon Slaying (Volcanic), Sorrow (Underground), Elemental Slaying (Underground), Grawl Slaying (Volcanic), Icebrood Slaying (Snowblind)

> ... the other 7 dungeon slaying sigils

>

> WVW:

> Support/Roaming:

> Superior Sigil of Concentration, Water, Transferrence

> Superior Rune of Durability, Leadership, Monk, Antitoxin

>

> Roaming:

> Superior Sigil of Energy, Cleansing, Malice, Doom, Nullification, Absorption, Severance

> Superior Rune of the Adventurer, Exuberance

>

> Zerg DPS:

> Superior Sigil of Frenzy, Bloodlust, Corruption

> Superior Rune of Strength,Wurm

>

> Your favorite personal/profession niches:

> , for me as an Ele main it's Superior Rune of Evasion, Balthazar

>

>

Sorry, but if you need the corresponding sigil for one dungeon in order to clear that dungeon, or if you need a certain anti-monster sigil to clear a fractal, then either you have a problem with the play or you are an absolute mix-maxer.

 

You say you play Ele? In this case a much simpler solution can be to ask Anet to nerf the Ele in such a way it cannot play more than one role (support or DPS dealer). In this way you will have only one set of runes - in the armor and one set of sigils - in the weapons. The space problem is solved.

 

You can store the siglls in your bank - at least for WvW. I cannot imagine you want to change your role every 1-2 minutes and you cannot go to the spawn-point (or to the keep) to access your bank and to change the runes/sigils.