Mirage: a summary

[Alveen.7239]

You **can** make it work, that being said chrono does almost everything better with less effort so there is a definite room for improvement.

 

In my opinion it requires:

- Baseline IH

- Adjustments to power coefficients regarding utility skills and Axe

- Jaunt with a slightly longer range, a 450 range tele isn’t really any competition to the other elites mesmer offers

- Axe 2 having an evade frame and becoming smoother to use

 

Let me know your thoughts

 

[takatsu.9416]

I agree with your suggestions, I want those too. We've already discussed the topic to death but Mirrors lasting longer. jaunt provide a brief evade to follow the theme even if no range added. And we need a new F5 skill that synergizes with mirage mirrors or mirage cloak and providing a controllable long duration cloak evade or something. Then I would be quite happy to use mirage even with no damage buffs

[Esplen.3940]

IH becoming baseline doesn't address any issues and instead slaps a band-aid on them. Ambushes are, for the most part, weak without clones using them. However, allowing clones to use them doesn't address the issue that they're weak, it simply says: "You can make these strong if you decide to use clones instead of phantasms" but what happens when they're not using ambushes? For the most part, every clone (bar Axe) is really, really bad. So what you're doing by making IH baseline is saying that now a Mesmer needs to balance using clones and phantasms, while simultaneously getting rid of said clones because they don't do anything when not ambushing (bar Axe). The ambushes are still weak by themselves (and ambushes don't hit very hard, they simply mask it by applying conditions or dazing), so all you've done is convolute the Mirage even further (because it's not already a confusing enough spec as is).

 

Axe doesn't need power coefficients, and the only utilities that do damage are Jaunt and Crystal Sands (I don't consider Mirage Advance a damage skill and it shouldn't be used as one).

 

Axe2 feels like it would need an evade, but that "minor change" involves redesigning the entire weapon as the utility of the weapon is balanced across all the abilities. Making Axe2 have an evade forces Axe3 to lose the evade, but makes Axe3 a really, really bad ability because it puts you in more danger than Axe2 (as well as also not hitting because it can put you over walls and even across gaps, and yes, I have fallen off a cliff due to getting ported across a gap and attempting to leap over it with a single Axe3 usage).

 

So while I appreciate you and everyone else having a reason as to why Mirage is bad, I disagree with how it can get fixed. Do note that most abilities are not going to get overhauled, and our class mechanics are not going to get redone.

 

With that said, I think we'll have to wait quite a while for our current issues to be addressed as I think they're waiting on PvP results to see what can be changed.

However, healthy changes for Mirage would be to make Sword Ambush and Axe2 not spawn clones at full illusions (possibly have a strong/er effect instead). Making clone ambushes actually hit for the same amount as the Mesmer (on non Condition ambushes), and for Renewing Oasis and Mirage Mantle to get re-looked at since they're both very bland and don't offer substance. Preventing Sand Shards from being cast while out of combat (please). Self-Deception at this point may as well just be "Deception skills spawn a Clone on use".

 

Then there's bug fixes, such as:

Axe3 porting you over gaps (and subsequently having you fall down them).

Mirage Advance putting you a lot further than clones, as well as not facing your target.

Axe clone ambushes not spawning Mirrored Axe's.

Crystal Sands spawning projectiles in walls/hitting walls and breaking.

Jaunt and Crystal Sands not having target caps.

Imaginary Axes being able to hit twice (once coming out, once going in). 4 hits possible from a 2 hit ability.

 

Some of the bug fixes are nerfs, but by fixing and streamlining the abilities, it allows for buffing and nerfing to be done appropriately.

[takatsu.9416]

I also agree with the complication of the whole clone imitation and clone focus idea while it doesn't do damage. But I never had a problem with clone generation because I'm built around shatters, as is Chrono. Unless for high level pve is the only place where you want to keep phantasms around for a long time.

 

The more clone production for me the better. Ambush shatter ambush shatter constantly. Ambush doesn't really add anything though I agree. But it's never been about choosing clone vs phantasm imho. With chronophantasma for example I'm shattering phantasms after the first time they hit to get the second phantasm hit and then recast the phantasm for the third hit bc my CD with alacrity would already be ready. Of course I'm also casting multiple phantasms via diff weapon skills. Mirage has alot of shatter fodder but does lack on phantasm generation and therefore loses DPS indeed.

 

What bothers me most though is the mirage cloak and mirrors being too limited. For example in a sea of effects your survivability drops because you just don't know when to evade when you can't see what's going on. Or dealing with a lot of mobs hitting at different times. For single target duels i feel it's very powerful but it just doesn't seem like a versatile spec right now like Chrono is

[Ohoni.6057]

I think Jaunt is fine because it's short range but you can use it fairly often, so it's more like a Vault or something than a Blink. The changes I would like to see are:

 

* A direct boost to Clone damage, at least as an optional trait. Make them either do enough normal damage that it's actually preferable having three clones active than it is Shatter spamming or Phantasm stacking, OR at least make it so that Clone ambushes deal several times as much damage so that they can hit like a truck, but need to be manually triggered to do so. Either way, there needs to be a Mirage "keep clones out for DPS" option.

 

* Mirrors, instead of proccing an instant Evade, they just restore Endurance when triggered. This gives you better endurance regeneration, allowing for more Ambush use, but without being based on the moment when a Mirror is triggered.

 

* This is more of a "Mesmer vs. PoF" issue than Mirage-specific, but Deceptive Evasion procing clones, they need to figure out a way to NOT have this keep you in combat, because I really like this trait while in combat, but when roaming this is a MASSIVE hassle because when you try to avoid an enemy's attack it will cause a clone to chase after them, taking much longer to exit combat (particularly after taking fall damage), which is an even bigger issue in PoF because it means that you can't mount up. Maybe have it so that rando clone agro doesn't put you into combat, similar to Ranger pets.

[Curunen.8729]

> @Esplen.3940 said:

> IH becoming baseline doesn't address any issues and instead slaps a band-aid on them. Ambushes are, for the most part, weak without clones using them. However, allowing clones to use them doesn't address the issue that they're weak, it simply says: "You can make these strong if you decide to use clones instead of phantasms" but what happens when they're not using ambushes? For the most part, every clone (bar Axe) is really, really bad. So what you're doing by making IH baseline is saying that now a Mesmer needs to balance using clones and phantasms, while simultaneously getting rid of said clones because they don't do anything when not ambushing (bar Axe). The ambushes are still weak by themselves (and ambushes don't hit very hard, they simply mask it by applying conditions or dazing), so all you've done is convolute the Mirage even further (because it's not already a confusing enough spec as is).

>

> Axe doesn't need power coefficients, and the only utilities that do damage are Jaunt and Crystal Sands (I don't consider Mirage Advance a damage skill and it shouldn't be used as one).

>

> Axe2 feels like it would need an evade, but that "minor change" involves redesigning the entire weapon as the utility of the weapon is balanced across all the abilities. Making Axe2 have an evade forces Axe3 to lose the evade, but makes Axe3 a really, really bad ability because it puts you in more danger than Axe2 (as well as also not hitting because it can put you over walls and even across gaps, and yes, I have fallen off a cliff due to getting ported across a gap and attempting to leap over it with a single Axe3 usage).

>

> So while I appreciate you and everyone else having a reason as to why Mirage is bad, I disagree with how it can get fixed. Do note that most abilities are not going to get overhauled, and our class mechanics are not going to get redone.

>

> With that said, I think we'll have to wait quite a while for our current issues to be addressed as I think they're waiting on PvP results to see what can be changed.

> However, healthy changes for Mirage would be to make Sword Ambush and Axe2 not spawn clones at full illusions (possibly have a strong/er effect instead). Making clone ambushes actually hit for the same amount as the Mesmer (on non Condition ambushes), and for Renewing Oasis and Mirage Mantle to get re-looked at since they're both very bland and don't offer substance. Preventing Sand Shards from being cast while out of combat (please). Self-Deception at this point may as well just be "Deception skills spawn a Clone on use".

>

> Then there's bug fixes, such as:

> Axe3 porting you over gaps (and subsequently having you fall down them).

> Mirage Advance putting you a lot further than clones, as well as not facing your target.

> Axe clone ambushes not spawning Mirrored Axe's.

> Crystal Sands spawning projectiles in walls/hitting walls and breaking.

> Jaunt and Crystal Sands not having target caps.

> Imaginary Axes being able to hit twice (once coming out, once going in). 4 hits possible from a 2 hit ability.

>

> Some of the bug fixes are nerfs, but by fixing and streamlining the abilities, it allows for buffing and nerfing to be done appropriately.

 

This depends entirely on game mode and build playstyle and is no more of a "correct" solution than what is proposed in the OP.

 

If phantasms were reworked to have a separate (fourth) illusion counter, or function like renegade spirits then the whole clone summoning overwriting the third phantasm wouldn't be an issue.

 

I don't want the clone removed from axe 2 because it synergises extremely well with simultaneous dodge shatter for pvp and wvw purposes. Likewise I don't care about it overwriting phantasms because again in pvp/wvw I'm not interested in maintaining them - better to shatter for damage spike or utility after they fire off an attack.

 

In contrast maintaining 3 clones is extremely easy with DE and self deception, so it's not difficult to execute 3 clone ambushes regularly - therefore baseline IH is only an issue in high end instanced pve due to phantasm preference, and large scale wvw due to all illusions getting crushed - and in the case of the latter, it makes no difference clones or phantasms - they all die too fast.

 

So personally it's a matter of perspective and I prefer baseline IH, keeping and keeping clone on axe 2 among other things.

[Esplen.3940]

That still doesn't address the issue that Ambushes are weak. Embracing IH as baseline means that Ambushes have to get balanced around both 0 and 3 clone usages.

 

Nor does it address the issue of illusion overlap. Out of all (attack) skills that can spawn clones, only Greatsword2, Axe2, and Mirage Thrust will spawn a clone when used as an attack.

Trident3, Staff2, Sword4, Scepter2, Spear2, Scepter Auto, and Downed2 can all ignore their Clone summon component.

A notable exception is with Sword3 which is a utility ability that requires the clone to be alive.

 

While some of the clone spawning abilities lose their attack component when not spawning a clone (Sword4/Scepter2), they retain their base functionality. To not spawn a clone, it takes either a jump (Sword4/Scepter2), or a detarget (Staff2, Trident3, Spear2, Downed2).

You cannot do this with GS2, Axe2, or even Mirage Thrust. With GS2 it's not as big a problem as the weaponset is either used for cheese (PvP) or for awkward tagging (PvE). With Axe2, it's annoying because your highest damage ability (thanks whirls and actually hitting unlike Axe3) will lower your overall damage output (sure, it's not an issue for PvP, but illusion overlap does and means nothing, so removing the clone gen while at 3 illusions wouldn't hurt PvP in any way). With Mirage Thrust, it's huge, because as a Phantasm spec, you avoid dodging on Sword because it hurts your DPS. That's really bad design to avoid a mechanic to prevent yourself from using an ability that hurts your damage output.

 

I'm not saying that these abilities are bad, I'm just saying that there's no need for them (notably Axe2 and MT) to spawn a clone while you're at max illusions.

[Curunen.8729]

Regarding IH, if phantasms were on a separate counter to clones then I don't see the harm in balancing the ambushes to scale from 0-3 illusions, incentivising building up to 3 clone ambushes during combat. Yes it means a drastic rework for phantasms but I'd prefer that over gutting IH. As it stands, staff, scepter and axe ambush are all improved by having 3 clones also casting them and I would rather this playstyle would be further supported.

 

Regarding axe2 and MT, sure MT I could live with them not spawning a clone if at max illusions, although the melee clone of axe2 synergises extremely well with dodge DE ambush into shatter as it guarantees all the axes of the follow up ambush before shatter will hit the target, so in some ways I still prefer axe 2 to summon a clone.

[Esplen.3940]

Again, nothing changes if you remove the clone spawn at max illusions. Your playstyle is still the same with your dodge de ambush shatter. I'm not saying Axe2 shouldn't spawn a clone. I'm saying it shouldn't spawn if you're at 3 illusions.

[bart.3687]

> @Esplen.3940 said:

> Again, nothing changes if you remove the clone spawn at max illusions. Your playstyle is still the same with your dodge de ambush shatter. I'm not saying Axe2 shouldn't spawn a clone. I'm saying it shouldn't spawn if you're at 3 illusions.

 

Yeah, give it scepter auto treatment: when you have 3 illusions up, the skill has additional effect instead of summoning a clone (maybe inflict short duration confusion on each hit while having 3 illusions up?)

I play clone maintaining build in open world pve and I don't like it that this skill overwrites existing clones as it interrupts their rotation and therefore reduces damage output. I think it would be a nice change.

[Curunen.8729]

> @Esplen.3940 said:

> Again, nothing changes if you remove the clone spawn at max illusions. Your playstyle is still the same with your dodge de ambush shatter. I'm not saying Axe2 shouldn't spawn a clone. I'm saying it shouldn't spawn if you're at 3 illusions.

 

Yeah sure I can accept this change for axe 2.

 

IH however should be supported and be baseline with a rework to phantasms separating them from the illusion counter and shatters if possible.

[Esplen.3940]

> @Curunen.8729 said:

> IH however should be supported and be baseline with a rework to phantasms separating them from the illusion counter and shatters if possible.

 

Again, I disagree. Do you think all Ambush skills (with and without IH) are in a good spot? If you agree, then IH can be made baseline. If you think that any of them need to be updated or have their numbers looked at, making IH baseline significantly hurts the chance that they will be balanced properly as well as making the line go from (mostly) shatter oriented to a hybrid of clone and shatter focused. The spec is already stretched pretty thin with all the mechanics we have (to deal with). Adding a choice option as baseline doesn't help that, and it doesn't address the issue that Ambushes are weak.

 

Ambushes will still be weak if you make IH baseline. Yes, now you get to pick that sweet stunbreak or condi duration trait as well, but that doesn't change or help Ambushes.

 

If you want Ambushes to get properly addressed, you need to first remove IH from the equation, and balance them. Once they're successfully out of the equation and the skills are properly tuned, then you look at how IH interacts and re-balance appropriately. The problem we've had is that Ambushes were balanced (out of the gate) with IH in mind. This leads us to having lots of our damage tied to a trait, making Ambushing worth less (not worthless) when not taking IH.

 

**If we ignore (and remove) IH entirely from the equation, look at Ambushes and tell me that they're in a balanced position.**

 

If you can honestly say that, then we know that you care more about doing cool things without being held back than game balance (nothing wrong with that, but it's not healthy long-term).

If you add IH and see that Ambushes are now in a good position, that means that the mechanic is **not in a good place** because it relies on a trait to function. That's not how mechanics are supposed to function. They're supposed to work, and then be improved by traits. If they don't work until you trait for them, then why have them in the first place?

[Zenith.7301]

Ambushes are horrendously weak. But so are our weapons outside axe as well. Scepter condi application in PvE is just terrible, and so is staff.

 

The vast majority of condi mesmer damage comes from phantasmal duelist stacking bleeds. Period.

 

Why do we have so little confusion? Mesmer is the master of confusion, this spec should have considerably higher amounts of it.

 

They should ramp up the confusion amplication of all our condi weapons, and make either a trait in illusions or mirage traitline increase confusion damage by 33%.

 

Rangers have bleeding damage increase as do thieves. Revenants have torment damage increase.

 

Why is mesmer stuck with anemic conditions?

 

A single bounding dodge or lotus dodge for a thief does far more than any of our ambushes do, and daredevil can dodge many times more and replenish that endurance bar quicker to boot.

 

I won't even discuss mirrors, because not only are they incredibly ill designed with little practicality and marginal utility for PvE, but our access to them is limited to using an inferior heal skill or using the spectacularly bad deception utilities that are of no actual utility in PvE.

 

Jaunt is a crappy version of vault taking up our elite slot. The very least it could use is triggering mirage cloak with each usage.

[OriOri.8724]

Remove IH entirely, balance ambush attacks around where they should have been balanced (ie only you casting them).

[Curunen.8729]

> @Esplen.3940 said:

> > @Curunen.8729 said:

> > IH however should be supported and be baseline with a rework to phantasms separating them from the illusion counter and shatters if possible.

>

> Again, I disagree. Do you think all Ambush skills (with and without IH) are in a good spot? If you agree, then IH can be made baseline. If you think that any of them need to be updated or have their numbers looked at, making IH baseline significantly hurts the chance that they will be balanced properly as well as making the line go from (mostly) shatter oriented to a hybrid of clone and shatter focused. The spec is already stretched pretty thin with all the mechanics we have (to deal with). Adding a choice option as baseline doesn't help that, and it doesn't address the issue that Ambushes are weak.

 

So? I don't get what the problem is with tweaking/buffing ambushes with baseline IH in mind - even if some require minor reworks.

 

Having the option for dedicated clone focused builds is one of the few things that makes mirage unique - and fun to play compared with chrono pure shatter spam and core mesmer. In addition mirrors synergise fully with IH because it procs mirage cloak and ambush on all your clones every time you walk through one - that's not "stretched pretty thin", that's good synergy that's currently overlooked because IH is a major trait and ambushes aren't properly balanced, as well as the eternal phantasm/clone/shatter problem...

 

> Ambushes will still be weak if you make IH baseline. Yes, now you get to pick that sweet stunbreak or condi duration trait as well, but that doesn't change or help Ambushes.

 

No, staff, scepter and traited axe with IH ambushes aren't weak when used in appropriate sequences together with shatter for applying burst. And even if they are weak or clunky in any way, they can be fixed/balanced with IH in mind.

 

> If you want Ambushes to get properly addressed, you need to first remove IH from the equation, and balance them. Once they're successfully out of the equation and the skills are properly tuned, then you look at how IH interacts and re-balance appropriately. The problem we've had is that Ambushes were balanced (out of the gate) with IH in mind. This leads us to having lots of our damage tied to a trait, making Ambushing worth less (not worthless) when not taking IH.

 

What's the difference between removing IH and balancing ambushes (and keeping IH as a major trait), and making IH a minor trait balancing ambushes around that? Oh I know, phantasms... and that issue can be fixed separately as is being discussed in the other phantasm mechanic thread.

 

> **If we ignore (and remove) IH entirely from the equation, look at Ambushes and tell me that they're in a balanced position.**

> If you can honestly say that, then we know that you care more about doing cool things without being held back than game balance (nothing wrong with that, but it's not healthy long-term).

 

I care about gameplay I find fun, yes - and having 3 clones ambushing and evading when I do is more fun than the boring summon 3 phantasms and use one or two skills for dps and evade as is pushed in pve (which is the reason I refuse to play high end pve). It actually feels unique to play IH clone ambush compared with core mesmer or chrono, which is why I'm so adamant about maintaining, developing and pushing the playstyle. It also synergises well with the mirror mechanic (one of the few playstyles that does synergise well with mirrors), because every time you walk through a mirror all 3 clones will ambush. If we had more access to mirrors this would be further improved.

 

> If you add IH and see that Ambushes are now in a good position, that means that the mechanic is **not in a good place** because it relies on a trait to function. That's not how mechanics are supposed to function. They're supposed to work, and then be improved by traits. If they don't work until you trait for them, then why have them in the first place?

 

If the trait was minor then how is this an issue that they rely on it to function? They'd all have access to it so it would be a non issue.

 

[Zenith.7301]

That's why phantasms should be a one hit strike skill not taking up illusion slots. Rebalance the one hit strike phantasm damage and reduce cd to 8 seconds. Then we can use shatters in PvE (which still need buffs, especially cry of frustration which is so bad right now).

 

However @Curunen.8729, this would not fix the fact that you want more damage revolving around clones, and currently in WvW and spvp clones simply are way too fragile. They need the aoe reduction treatment of pve. In WvW my clones can't even stay up as soon as I spawn them because a warrior's basic autoattacks at me that cleave also dispel my clones immediately, and if it's not the autoattacks then the clones explode with full counter aoe as well.

 

We can't balance mesmer output around incredibly fragile AI with no aoe protection because pvp will greatly suffer, which is why most mesmer builds in pvp are quick shatter dump builds since clones simply cannot stay alive.

[Curunen.8729]

> @Zenith.7301 said:

> That's why phantasms should be a one hit strike skill not taking up illusion slots. Rebalance the one hit strike phantasm damage and reduce cd to 8 seconds. Then we can use shatters in PvE (which still need buffs, especially cry of frustration which is so bad right now).

>

> However @Curunen.8729, this would not fix the fact that you want more damage revolving around clones, and currently in WvW and spvp clones simply are way too fragile. They need the aoe reduction treatment of pve. In WvW my clones can't even stay up as soon as I spawn them because a warrior's basic autoattacks at me that cleave also dispel my clones immediately, and if it's not the autoattacks then the clones explode with full counter aoe as well.

>

> We can't balance mesmer output around incredibly fragile AI with no aoe protection because pvp will greatly suffer, which is why most mesmer builds in pvp are quick shatter dump builds since clones simply cannot stay alive.

 

Oh I agree when it comes to medium/large scale wvw - and in that situation both phantasms and clones die equally fast and that situation really ought to be looked at - maybe giving some kind of scaling damage reduction for illusions depending on the number of player enemies (not including npcs) in say a radius of 2000 units around them or something (ie 1 enemy, no damage reduction, 2 enemies, 10% and so on - bit of an "off the top of my head" solution and I'm sure there must be better solutions).

 

On a separate note I also think we should only have 3 core shatters - essentially merging mind wrack and cry of frustration into one single damage application shatter.

 

In pvp though, between deceptive evasion and self deception with a good number of deception skills (ie jaunt, heal and couple of utilities) you can have a good number of clones out very often. In small scale wvw or roaming likewise, it's not difficult to keep clones out regularly. Currently on the [iH/mirror build](http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vhAQNAnfWnELDlLjFpBGMDMMjlZjyf+3//3MEWhWqMAutkB-jJxHABA8EAOqMQL7Po8pAAA "IH/mirror build") I'm playing I'm not struggling with getting clones out and using them for ambush. Rather the only things I'm struggling with (taken in isolation from obvious game balance problems on other classes such as scourge) are mobility due to not taking Blink and disengage due to not taking a stealth utility such as SoM or Decoy. If IH was a minor trait, I could take Elusive Mind, drop Mantra of Resolve and take Blink or SoM, and therefore drop IA (the cloak sharing is redundant with IH) to take mirage advance (excellent clone summoning synergy) to properly round out the build. The only reason I take IA right now is due to being instant cast and acting as a pseudo-stunbreak plus evade, whereas mirage advance has a cast time...

But this is all an issue due to lack of sufficient access to mirrors and proccing mirage cloak on illusions.

 

I think that if we had more access to mirrors, not only would it provide more evade uptime for illusions, it would also increase the efficacy of IH ambushes. Mirrors and IH, while looked at separately are two clunky mechanics, function beautifully when combined together and make for a unique, coherent and refreshing experience playing mesmer.

 

For example if Sand through Glass was a 10 second cooldown skill (similar to Bandit's Defence), it could not only be used as a regular mirror generator, it would also allow easier usage for evading out of aoes and make up somewhat for lack of mobility on rear dodge.

 

In any case the playstyle of using clones for damage through ambush is like a revisiting of old phantasm mesmer, but with a lot smoother gameplay due to how easy it is to spawn clones. It also thematically looks and feels cooler because clones at least are an attempt to mimic you as the player, as well as all of them evading together - whereas phantasms are blatantly unique summons and I agree they should be single cast and disappear.

[bart.3687]

> @Zenith.7301 said:

> Ambushes are horrendously weak. But so are our weapons outside axe as well. Scepter condi application in PvE is just terrible, and so is staff.

>

 

Agree 100%. Scepter's ambush is terrible (I wish I could disable it). Staff's one is pleasing visually but never hits and is somewhat difficult to cast.

 

> They should ramp up the confusion amplication of all our condi weapons, and make either a trait in illusions or mirage traitline increase confusion damage by 33%.

>

> Rangers have bleeding damage increase as do thieves. Revenants have torment damage increase.

>

> Why is mesmer stuck with anemic conditions?

>

 

Also, scourge's GM which increases torment damage and makes it apply burning.

Please, improve our confusion damage or give us more ways to inflict it. Or both.

 

> A single bounding dodge or lotus dodge for a thief does far more than any of our ambushes do, and daredevil can dodge many times more and replenish that endurance bar quicker to boot.

>

 

Not to mention that DD does it automatically on its dodge, and we still have to face our target and cast the ambush.

 

> I won't even discuss mirrors, because not only are they incredibly ill designed with little practicality and marginal utility for PvE, but our access to them is limited to using an inferior heal skill or using the spectacularly bad deception utilities that are of no actual utility in PvE.

>

 

Mirrors are horrible and should be removed/replaced with something more interesting.

 

 

 

[zealex.9410]

> @Alveen.7239 said:

> You **can** make it work, that being said chrono does almost everything better with less effort so there is a definite room for improvement.

>

> In my opinion it requires:

> - Baseline IH

> - Adjustments to power coefficients regarding utility skills and Axe

> - Jaunt with a slightly longer range, a 450 range tele isn’t really any competition to the other elites mesmer offers

> - Axe 2 having an evade frame and becoming smoother to use

>

> Let me know your thoughts

>

 

I dought chrono does condi beter or movement (other than specing for it which will hurt you elsewhere)

[Ithilwen.1529]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> Remove IH entirely, balance ambush attacks around where they should have been balanced (ie only you casting them).

 

That counters the point of IH and Mirage to a lesser extent. We were allegedly going to be able to fool enemies by swapping with clones. Using an ambush without IH immediately reveals you.

 

Yes, I realize that the "deceptions" are too weak and too seldom to fool most players anyway... but that is a different issue.

[Coulter.2315]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> Remove IH entirely, balance ambush attacks around where they should have been balanced (ie only you casting them).

 

I really don't like this line of thinking. Mirage is gong to be the ONLY elite spec Mesmer ever gets where clones can be a major part of its DPS, this is a good thing and should be supported. Ambushes and clone damage for Mirage needs to be brought to a point where top DPS is not 3 Duelists because if it isn't here it will never be anywhere. We do not need another spec which pops out 3 phants and autoattacks.

 

I understand your point that, at the moment, buffing the ambushes and making them mesmer only will provide higher DPS for a phantasm based build but this is not what our goal should be for Mirage.

[zealex.9410]

> @Coulter.2315 said:

> > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > Remove IH entirely, balance ambush attacks around where they should have been balanced (ie only you casting them).

>

> I really don't like this line of thinking. Mirage is gong to be the ONLY elite spec Mesmer ever gets where clones can be a major part of its DPS, this is a good thing and should be supported. Ambushes and clone damage for Mirage needs to be brought to a point where top DPS is not 3 Duelists because if it isn't here it will never be anywhere. We do not need another spec which pops out 3 phants and autoattacks.

>

> I understand your point that, at the moment, buffing the ambushes and making them mesmer only will provide higher DPS for a phantasm based build but this is not what our goal should be for Mirage.

 

Clones are only gonna be a major part if you only take that talent if you dont u are left with a mediocre mesmer.

[Coulter.2315]

> @zealex.9410 said:

> > @Coulter.2315 said:

> > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > Remove IH entirely, balance ambush attacks around where they should have been balanced (ie only you casting them).

> >

> > I really don't like this line of thinking. Mirage is gong to be the ONLY elite spec Mesmer ever gets where clones can be a major part of its DPS, this is a good thing and should be supported. Ambushes and clone damage for Mirage needs to be brought to a point where top DPS is not 3 Duelists because if it isn't here it will never be anywhere. We do not need another spec which pops out 3 phants and autoattacks.

> >

> > I understand your point that, at the moment, buffing the ambushes and making them mesmer only will provide higher DPS for a phantasm based build but this is not what our goal should be for Mirage.

>

> Clones are only gonna be a major part if you only take that talent if you dont u are left with a mediocre mesmer.

 

I'm not saying Mirage is perfect as it is, I am saying any proposed change should desparately try to not end up with 3 phants and autoattack gameplay.

[Cantatus.4065]

I'm hopeful that when they start doing balance tweaks to the MIrage they do so with the mindset that Mirage should be a fast-paced class, and that means more reliance on shatters and clone utilization than phantasms. That's a large part of what will set it apart from our other specs.

[Exciton.8942]

I am hoping for this:

 

Make IH baseline. Remove clones ability to cast ambush attacks.

 

Improve ambush attacks.

 

Let's be honest. Clone casting ambush attacks is not and will not be a viable playstyle in PvP, WvW or fractal/raids. Such mechancis serves no purpose other than limiting the capability of ambush attacks.