Legendary Fractal Armour

[Asum.4960]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > When less than 1% of the entire population of the game ever even completed 100CM once, then surely we can agree that there is a lack of incentives there?

> I don't agree. First the numbers aren't supported by the stats on GW2 Efficiency (see below); just over 10% have done L100 normal and 8.7% have credit for L100 in challenge mode. (If you have some source for "less than 1%", please share.) Besides which, 100 CM was designed to appeal to the minority of the minority: the hardest-core group of those who embrace this game's 5-person challenging content.

>

> So it seems to me that the incentives are just enough, at least for now.

>

> ##### GW2 Efficiency Stats

> >! * [10.3%](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shattered_Observatory_Fractal_(achievements)) have completed _Closing the Loop_, i.e. FL100/normal

> >! * 8.7% have completed _Mind out of Time_, i.e. 100/CM

> >!

> >! In comparison, the following are [the stats for completing the various complete tiers](https://gw2efficiency.com/account/unlock-statistics?filter.search=fractal&filter.category=30):

> >! * Initiate (1-25): 23.7%

> >! * Adept (26-50): 11.7%

> >! * Expert (51-75): 9.8%

> >! * Master (76-100): 17.7%

> >!

> >! And as another comparison:

> >! * ~20% have killed Sabetha

> >! * 4.2% have killed Qadim

> >! * 27.5% have successfully Escorted Glenna (less than half, only 11.7%, have brought the bunny)

>

>

 

It's mostly assumption I give you that, but I'm pretty sure the majority of GW2 players don't even know what GW2efficiency is.

If less than 9% of the highly invested part of the players base who is tracking their account with tools like efficiency have done 100CM just once, with only 0.5% of the GW2efficiency using player base having 200+ KP, aka doing it regularly, then those aren't good numbers imo, especially for daily content.

[Cyninja.2954]

Well the thread has run its course.

 

There are good points for and against both fractal legendary armor (a non legendary fractal armor skin would be very cool though) or a pve general legendary armor.

 

**My only concern is the economic impact such a change has.**

 

I'm not against more ways for players to get the gear they want. I usually am all for choice. I am against any change or implementation which will or might force Arnenat to make adjustments to the games economy down the road as a result of said change.

 

The easiest way to offer an alternative legendary armor (while keeping some restrictions in place) is currently fractals. I'm very skeptical a general pve legendary armor can work unless it is made obscenely expensive (which would cause new issues).

 

I'm less concerned about the impact on raids to be honest (as an avid raider myself). If the game mode doesn't manage to hold enough players, then it will die out eventually. I do believe though that raids currently give enough incentives to play them, the problems start at x-months in and hundreds of boss kills. Then again it is hard to keep people motivated in a game mode this long, especially with horizontal progression.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > Last i remember they said they didn't want to do that, because they believed it would splinter the already small raid community. I might be remembering it wrong, though.

>

>

>

> tl;dr:

> > All that to say: we hear you on the Raid CM front, and we're exploring options.

Notice though, that they also say what i remembered: that they don't want to incentivize repeating CMs because they don't want to splinter the player base. Thus, probably even if they'll do make them repeatable, the rewards for doing so won't be great enough to push people towards it. Merely good enough so you wouldn't think it's completely pointless.

 

[Laila Lightness.8742]

Just make an buyable leggy amor for pristine relics maybe 10k of them for set and all be happy(with envoy skin no point locking the skin behind a mode few are able to do)

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Cyninja.2954" said:

> The easiest way to offer an alternative legendary armor (while keeping some restrictions in place) is currently fractals. I'm very skeptical a general pve legendary armor can work unless it is made obscenely expensive (which would cause new issues).

 

I can think offhand of several ways to do that, depending on what the goal would be. One would be to use radiant/hellfire set as precursors - it would make it so the first elements would be quite easy to obtain, but a full set would end up way more exclusive than raid one (resulting in a path that's very easy to put your firsts steps on, but one not many would finish). Another would be to timegate the kitten out of it. Third would be to follow the Aurora path, and make it tied to LS. And there's always the collection itself, which definitely shouldn't primarily be mat based.

 

In general, since the open world set would be of lower skill difficulty, it should require a much greater amount of active play compared to the current sets. As long as that requirement is taken care of, there's no need for a much greater cost (personally i think that the final step should cost about the same, and any increases in the overall cost should be left to the collection and to precursor crafting, and should no more than double the overall price, and likely not even that).

[Tails.9372]

> @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> One would be to use radiant/hellfire set as precursors

Only if the final version of the suit gets a variant with ley-line tentacles (unless we get a legendary ley-line tentacle backpack for OW which would be even better).

 

> In general, since the open world set would be of lower skill difficulty

How? Like seriously: how? Both the sPvP and the WvW set don't require any skill (at all). It's only for non raid PvE where people try to artificially infuse "difficulty" into the process when all of the already existing sets are nothing but participation rewards for their respective content.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > One would be to use radiant/hellfire set as precursors

> Only if the final version of the suit gets a variant with ley-line tentacles (unless we get a legendary ley-line tentacle backpack for OW which would be even better).

>

 

How about no? Tentacles don't really fit with the radiant/hellfire skins. They need an update to use higher quality shaders and materials, better lights (for Radiant) and better particles (for Hellfire) to bring them up-to-date with more current gem store sets.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> It's mostly assumption I give you that,

So you based your conclusion on no evidence whatsoever?

 

> but I'm pretty sure the majority of GW2 players don't even know what GW2efficiency is.

That isn't at all relevant, unless the numbers on GW2/E are skewed wildly different from the total player base. We know that they will be different: people who care about AP are more likely to look for and use a site like GW2/E than those who don't care. The question is: by how much?

 

We can't know, of course, although we can make reasonable guesses (based on how this sort of thing plays out in other situations) that the rations won't be orders of magnitude different. But even that is moot because _ANet_ has the actual data. They don't have to make any simplifying assumptions about how many people are running 100/CM

 

> If less than 9% of the highly invested part of the players base who is tracking their account with tools like efficiency have done 100CM just once, with only 0.5% of the GW2efficiency using player base having 200+ KP, aka doing it regularly, then those aren't good numbers imo, especially for daily content.

 

You're selectively regarding the data to support your original point. According to the same site (and thus skewed up or down in the same way), 84% of the people who have done 100 normal mode have also done 100/CM. That suggests that, contrary to your assertion, 100/CM is already well-incentivized.

[Tails.9372]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > One would be to use radiant/hellfire set as precursors

> > Only if the final version of the suit gets a variant with ley-line tentacles (unless we get a legendary ley-line tentacle backpack for OW which would be even better).

> >

>

> How about no? Tentacles don't really fit with the radiant/hellfire skins. They need an update to use higher quality shaders and materials, better lights (for Radiant) and better particles (for Hellfire) to bring them up-to-date with more current gem store sets.

Beams of light coming out of your back actually fits perfectly with the radiant set (although like I said I would prefer this to be a legndary backpack) and if you don't like them just use the "non tentacle" variant.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > > One would be to use radiant/hellfire set as precursors

> > Only if the final version of the suit gets a variant with ley-line tentacles (unless we get a legendary ley-line tentacle backpack for OW which would be even better).

> >

>

> How about no? Tentacles don't really fit with the radiant/hellfire skins. They need an update to use higher quality shaders and materials, better lights (for Radiant) and better particles (for Hellfire) to bring them up-to-date with more current gem store sets.

Pretty much my take on this as well (on the other hand i don't really like the tentacle visuals on WvW/SPvP sets, so i may be biased). Though i wouldn't really mind if it was just a separate variant you didn't have to use.

 

Still, that's an aestethics discussion, and those aren't winnable so i'm not going to go into it any deeper than that.

 

(after reading the next post)

...oh wait, who am i kidding.

 

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> Beams of light coming out of your back actually fits perfectly with the radiant set

They'd have to be quite different from those used in SpvP/WvW sets, or they wouldn't fit. Tyrael's wings might, though (and there's still the case of Hellfire, that would require something quite different).

 

 

[phs.6089]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> Just make an buyable leggy amor for pristine relics maybe 10k of them for set and all be happy(with envoy skin no point locking the skin behind a mode few are able to do)

 

10k pristines... Why you hate fractal locals? Just why? 10k is about 2 years of dailies :)

 

Lets start small. Dear Arena.NET can fractal ascended gear get own unique skin themed as fractal weapons please?

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > Just make an buyable leggy amor for pristine relics maybe 10k of them for set and all be happy(with envoy skin no point locking the skin behind a mode few are able to do)

>

> 10k pristines... Why you hate fractal locals? Just why? 10k is about 2 years of dailies :)

>

> Lets start small. Dear Arena.NET can fractal ascended gear get own unique skin themed as fractal weapons please?

 

Or maybe 200 pristine and 1k relics? For envoy set

[phs.6089]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > Just make an buyable leggy amor for pristine relics maybe 10k of them for set and all be happy(with envoy skin no point locking the skin behind a mode few are able to do)

> >

> > 10k pristines... Why you hate fractal locals? Just why? 10k is about 2 years of dailies :)

> >

> > Lets start small. Dear Arena.NET can fractal ascended gear get own unique skin themed as fractal weapons please?

>

> Or maybe 200 pristine and 1k relics? For envoy set

 

Thing is fractal runners kinda need those a large number for Atunments. There should be something else.

I understand you maybe looking at pvp gear (ascended shards and shards of glory) but shards of glory are tradable and HotM locals don't really need to spend ascended shards on atunments.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > Just make an buyable leggy amor for pristine relics maybe 10k of them for set and all be happy(with envoy skin no point locking the skin behind a mode few are able to do)

> > >

> > > 10k pristines... Why you hate fractal locals? Just why? 10k is about 2 years of dailies :)

> > >

> > > Lets start small. Dear Arena.NET can fractal ascended gear get own unique skin themed as fractal weapons please?

> >

> > Or maybe 200 pristine and 1k relics? For envoy set

>

> Thing is fractal runners kinda need those a large number for Atunments. There should be something else.

> I understand you maybe looking at pvp gear (ascended shards and shards of glory) but shards of glory are tradable and HotM locals don't really need to spend ascended shards on atunments.

 

Then just 100relics and 10 pristine for full envoy

[phs.6089]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > Just make an buyable leggy amor for pristine relics maybe 10k of them for set and all be happy(with envoy skin no point locking the skin behind a mode few are able to do)

> > > >

> > > > 10k pristines... Why you hate fractal locals? Just why? 10k is about 2 years of dailies :)

> > > >

> > > > Lets start small. Dear Arena.NET can fractal ascended gear get own unique skin themed as fractal weapons please?

> > >

> > > Or maybe 200 pristine and 1k relics? For envoy set

> >

> > Thing is fractal runners kinda need those a large number for Atunments. There should be something else.

> > I understand you maybe looking at pvp gear (ascended shards and shards of glory) but shards of glory are tradable and HotM locals don't really need to spend ascended shards on atunments.

>

> Then just 100relics and 10 pristine for full envoy

 

What Envoy? Dear gosh. Here I disagree, no Envoy should be available in Fractals.

There are many good reasons to keep Envoy for raiders.

 

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > > Just make an buyable leggy amor for pristine relics maybe 10k of them for set and all be happy(with envoy skin no point locking the skin behind a mode few are able to do)

> > > > >

> > > > > 10k pristines... Why you hate fractal locals? Just why? 10k is about 2 years of dailies :)

> > > > >

> > > > > Lets start small. Dear Arena.NET can fractal ascended gear get own unique skin themed as fractal weapons please?

> > > >

> > > > Or maybe 200 pristine and 1k relics? For envoy set

> > >

> > > Thing is fractal runners kinda need those a large number for Atunments. There should be something else.

> > > I understand you maybe looking at pvp gear (ascended shards and shards of glory) but shards of glory are tradable and HotM locals don't really need to spend ascended shards on atunments.

> >

> > Then just 100relics and 10 pristine for full envoy

>

> What Envoy? Dear gosh. Here I disagree, no Envoy should be available in Fractals.

>

 

But itshould be available for all

[phs.6089]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > > > Just make an buyable leggy amor for pristine relics maybe 10k of them for set and all be happy(with envoy skin no point locking the skin behind a mode few are able to do)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > 10k pristines... Why you hate fractal locals? Just why? 10k is about 2 years of dailies :)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Lets start small. Dear Arena.NET can fractal ascended gear get own unique skin themed as fractal weapons please?

> > > > >

> > > > > Or maybe 200 pristine and 1k relics? For envoy set

> > > >

> > > > Thing is fractal runners kinda need those a large number for Atunments. There should be something else.

> > > > I understand you maybe looking at pvp gear (ascended shards and shards of glory) but shards of glory are tradable and HotM locals don't really need to spend ascended shards on atunments.

> > >

> > > Then just 100relics and 10 pristine for full envoy

> >

> > What Envoy? Dear gosh. Here I disagree, no Envoy should be available in Fractals.

> >

>

> But itshould be available for all

 

We were talking of Fractals Legendary armor, with unique to Fractals skin. Not Envoy. I dunno where you get the idea of Envoy being available to for all.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

> @"phs.6089" said:

> > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > > > > Just make an buyable leggy amor for pristine relics maybe 10k of them for set and all be happy(with envoy skin no point locking the skin behind a mode few are able to do)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > 10k pristines... Why you hate fractal locals? Just why? 10k is about 2 years of dailies :)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Lets start small. Dear Arena.NET can fractal ascended gear get own unique skin themed as fractal weapons please?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Or maybe 200 pristine and 1k relics? For envoy set

> > > > >

> > > > > Thing is fractal runners kinda need those a large number for Atunments. There should be something else.

> > > > > I understand you maybe looking at pvp gear (ascended shards and shards of glory) but shards of glory are tradable and HotM locals don't really need to spend ascended shards on atunments.

> > > >

> > > > Then just 100relics and 10 pristine for full envoy

> > >

> > > What Envoy? Dear gosh. Here I disagree, no Envoy should be available in Fractals.

> > >

> >

> > But itshould be available for all

>

> We were talking of Fractals Legendary armor, with unique to Fractals skin. Not Envoy. I dunno where you get the idea of Envoy being available to for all.

 

Its pve legendery skin it should be in fractals

[zealex.9410]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Astralporing.1957" said:

> > Last i remember they said they didn't want to do that, because they believed it would splinter the already small raid community. I might be remembering it wrong, though.

>

>

>

> tl;dr:

> > All that to say: we hear you on the Raid CM front, and we're exploring options.

 

That reddit thread is so true its sad.

 

Its good content, its just old/overplayed

 

About the cms is also so true.

[phs.6089]

> @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > > > > @"phs.6089" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Laila Lightness.8742" said:

> > > > > > > > > Just make an buyable leggy amor for pristine relics maybe 10k of them for set and all be happy(with envoy skin no point locking the skin behind a mode few are able to do)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > 10k pristines... Why you hate fractal locals? Just why? 10k is about 2 years of dailies :)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Lets start small. Dear Arena.NET can fractal ascended gear get own unique skin themed as fractal weapons please?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Or maybe 200 pristine and 1k relics? For envoy set

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Thing is fractal runners kinda need those a large number for Atunments. There should be something else.

> > > > > > I understand you maybe looking at pvp gear (ascended shards and shards of glory) but shards of glory are tradable and HotM locals don't really need to spend ascended shards on atunments.

> > > > >

> > > > > Then just 100relics and 10 pristine for full envoy

> > > >

> > > > What Envoy? Dear gosh. Here I disagree, no Envoy should be available in Fractals.

> > > >

> > >

> > > But itshould be available for all

> >

> > We were talking of Fractals Legendary armor, with unique to Fractals skin. Not Envoy. I dunno where you get the idea of Envoy being available to for all.

>

> Its pve legendery skin it should be in fractals

 

Let me mumble a bit, bare with me please.

In any RPG, player does things to make own character stronger. Whatever it is, abilities, gear etc.

Now here in WvW a player gets masteries that make character bit stronger in WvW, then longer they play, then more masteries they can unlock, it's capped at some point but anyway it a long way.

Fractals-Atunments make your character a bit stronger in Fractals, it is again a long way.

 

Those poor raiders got nothing(!) masteries they unlock are artificial inconveniences (just like in HoT maps). The only thing they have is that Envoy

which is a debatable convenient items and bragging rights. You want to take that bragging rights from those people?

I don't think so.

And it's not a PVE legendary. It's raids specific legendary armor sets.

[Asum.4960]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > It's mostly assumption I give you that,

> So you based your conclusion on no evidence whatsoever?

>

> > but I'm pretty sure the majority of GW2 players don't even know what GW2efficiency is.

> That isn't at all relevant, unless the numbers on GW2/E are skewed wildly different from the total player base. We know that they will be different: people who care about AP are more likely to look for and use a site like GW2/E than those who don't care. The question is: by how much?

>

> We can't know, of course, although we can make reasonable guesses (based on how this sort of thing plays out in other situations) that the rations won't be orders of magnitude different. But even that is moot because _ANet_ has the actual data. They don't have to make any simplifying assumptions about how many people are running 100/CM

>

> > If less than 9% of the highly invested part of the players base who is tracking their account with tools like efficiency have done 100CM just once, with only 0.5% of the GW2efficiency using player base having 200+ KP, aka doing it regularly, then those aren't good numbers imo, especially for daily content.

>

> You're selectively regarding the data to support your original point. According to the same site (and thus skewed up or down in the same way), 84% of the people who have done 100 normal mode have also done 100/CM. That suggests that, contrary to your assertion, 100/CM is already well-incentivized.

 

The average group on LFG asks for somewhere between 100 and 250KP for 100CM, so that is a useful selection to make in order to determine the active player base.

Only 0.5% of the playerbase using efficiency have those, so that is the community daily CM runners are working with.

 

I'm not sure if you run CM's regularly, but even at times like 6-8pm on a Saturday, it's not completely unusual to wait for 30+ minutes to fill a group at times.

 

Doing daily content once out of curiosity and then never touching it again, as the Unstable Cosmic Essences suggest, doesn't reflect highly incentivised content, at least to me. Neither is checking only if people have done it just once useful information relating to the population health of daily content.

ArenaNet choosing not to develop a CM for one and a half years seems to reflect a severely lacking playerbase as well, according to their data.

 

I feel like someone has to be quite disconnected from that content and it's dwindling community to think that it's highly attractive content for new players, and even most established daily normal Fractals runners, to get into.

[Vinceman.4572]

Easy to answer why CMs, especially 100 CM, are very rarely visited and the restriction to get into decent to good groups is so high: It's too hard for the average GW2 player. Even most of the raid bosses are lower in terms of difficulty. And fractals are significantly harder if you have to carry a player because then it would be a ratio of 4:1. Although fracs are balanced for 5 players, 1 bad apple is making a bigger impact here than 9:1 in raids where you don't even need 9 people in decent groups on several bosses.