Greatsword would be too OP for Revenant class

[meri.9187]

I don't think it's fair to immediately label greatsword as OP when the class utilizes a ranged axe, ranged hammer, and melee staff. Lord knows what they'll throw at us next.

 

That said, I think we need another close-mid range one-handed weapon as a baseline before we think about the next espec.

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"ventusthunder.5067" said:

> I don't think it's fair to immediately label greatsword as OP when the class utilizes a ranged axe, ranged hammer, and melee staff. Lord knows what they'll throw at us next.

>

> That said, I think we need another close-mid range one-handed weapon as a baseline before we think about the next espec.

 

I believe ranged daggers should have been stock like in alpha

[Raknar.4735]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> That doesn't change what is actually going on though. Personal headcanon doesn't trump in-game facts. It clearly slings magical rift energy at people. It clearly lets you jump through the Mists to attack someone. It clearly conjures up some Mist energy to protect from ranged. It clearly creates a magical hammer to drop on people. The only purely physical attack is Coalescence of Ruin and even that attack sends Mist energy at folks.

>

 

I wouldn't classify "the powers of the Mists" as magic. Magic is natural to Tyria, the Mists are not.

And it is an in-game fact that the Revenant calls upon the powers of certain legendary figures of the past.

The revenant doesn't use "magic" to attack enemies, the only thing he's capable of is channeling things from the mists. He could call upon a past legend that uses a magic skill, he himself does not use the magic.

Revenants are great fighters with physical capabilities, that's why they use the mists / miststepping to enhance their already powerful physical skills.

He doesn't "create" magical hammers, he summons "a massive hammer" from the Mists.

 

>I wouldn't really call Revenant brutish. It leans closer to spellcaster light with its use of the Mists. It has a fair number of attacks that has you making use of the Mists instead of straight up being a bruiser. Even the staff plays more like a mix between your standard physical fighter (first two attacks) with some magical stuff added on top (last three attacks).

 

The only attack of the staff that could be called "magical" is skill 4. Opening a rift to the Mists / Stepping through the Mists has nothing to do with natural tyrian magic.

 

 

[Knighthonor.4061]

> @"Raknar.4735" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > That doesn't change what is actually going on though. Personal headcanon doesn't trump in-game facts. It clearly slings magical rift energy at people. It clearly lets you jump through the Mists to attack someone. It clearly conjures up some Mist energy to protect from ranged. It clearly creates a magical hammer to drop on people. The only purely physical attack is Coalescence of Ruin and even that attack sends Mist energy at folks.

> >

>

> I wouldn't classify "the powers of the Mists" as magic. Magic is natural to Tyria, the Mists are not.

> And it is an in-game fact that the Revenant calls upon the powers of certain legendary figures of the past.

> The revenant doesn't use "magic" to attack enemies, the only thing he's capable of is channeling things from the mists. He could call upon a past legend that uses a magic skill, he himself does not use the magic.

> Revenants are great fighters with physical capabilities, that's why they use the mists / miststepping to enhance their already powerful physical skills.

> He doesn't "create" magical hammers, he summons "a massive hammer" from the Mists.

>

> >I wouldn't really call Revenant brutish. It leans closer to spellcaster light with its use of the Mists. It has a fair number of attacks that has you making use of the Mists instead of straight up being a bruiser. Even the staff plays more like a mix between your standard physical fighter (first two attacks) with some magical stuff added on top (last three attacks).

>

> The only attack of the staff that could be called "magical" is skill 4. Opening a rift to the Mists / Stepping through the Mists has nothing to do with natural tyrian magic.

>

>

 

That's not true nor is that how Magic work in this universe since magic is channeled from the gods originally. Ritualist and Dervish both channeled Mist Energy which is their form of magic. Revenant does the same exact thing actually.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

>

> > There is room to replace those weapons. They can create Elite weapons that provide more survivability or provided burst + damage. A GS could be created as a support, survivability weapon as easily as it could be made into a bursty DPS monster.

> >

> No. Not in the sustain front, at least. At the begining, we had the staff and the shield. But the shield got butchered, and now using one is a good way to be killed fast. And then they removed the block in the off hand sword (replaced by a burst which is making child scream in the PvP forum and will end nerfed, no doubt). And neither the short bow or the trident have defensive skills. So I don't think they could make a good defensive weapon (much less a great one, as the staff still is) and no way they focuse their efforts in doing a tank build in this times in which the only thing that seems to count is the dps scores at the Snow Crows page. See: no one is using the shield or the short bow in 2/3 of the game modes, and the new weapon is supposed to be one of the greather reasons for excitement in each expansion! My bet is on another dps weapon absolutely horrid outside anything but raids.

>

 

Just because something was nerfed doesn't mean the next weapon we get is going to be nerfed. It is possible to create a weapon that could replace staff or dual swords. What happens after that is anyone's guess but even if it were nerfed that still shows that ANet can create replacements.

 

> @"Raknar.4735" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > That doesn't change what is actually going on though. Personal headcanon doesn't trump in-game facts. It clearly slings magical rift energy at people. It clearly lets you jump through the Mists to attack someone. It clearly conjures up some Mist energy to protect from ranged. It clearly creates a magical hammer to drop on people. The only purely physical attack is Coalescence of Ruin and even that attack sends Mist energy at folks.

> >

>

> I wouldn't classify "the powers of the Mists" as magic. Magic is natural to Tyria, the Mists are not.

> And it is an in-game fact that the Revenant calls upon the powers of certain legendary figures of the past.

> The revenant doesn't use "magic" to attack enemies, the only thing he's capable of is channeling things from the mists. He could call upon a past legend that uses a magic skill, he himself does not use the magic.

> Revenants are great fighters with physical capabilities, that's why they use the mists / miststepping to enhance their already powerful physical skills.

> He doesn't "create" magical hammers, he summons "a massive hammer" from the Mists.

>

> >I wouldn't really call Revenant brutish. It leans closer to spellcaster light with its use of the Mists. It has a fair number of attacks that has you making use of the Mists instead of straight up being a bruiser. Even the staff plays more like a mix between your standard physical fighter (first two attacks) with some magical stuff added on top (last three attacks).

>

> The only attack of the staff that could be called "magical" is skill 4. Opening a rift to the Mists / Stepping through the Mists has nothing to do with natural tyrian magic.

>

>

 

Now you're just being pedantic. Mist attacks are not physical bruiser attacks. Even if we removed them from the magical category they wouldn't be in the physical category either. Revenant's use of Mist attacks would qualify as mystical in nature even if they didn't count as magic by Tyrian standards (though they are magical in nature no matter how you slice it). Even then, it takes magic to enter the Mists and while the Revenant does channel abilities from Legends it has a number of its own abilities that are not tied to Legends, i.e. their weapon attacks.

 

Revenant does not operate in a brutish way.

[Raknar.4735]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> Now you're just being pedantic. Mist attacks are not physical bruiser attacks. Even if we removed them from the magical category they wouldn't be in the physical category either. Revenant's use of Mist attacks would qualify as mystical in nature even if they didn't count as magic by Tyrian standards (though they are magical in nature no matter how you slice it). Even then, it takes magic to enter the Mists and while the Revenant does channel abilities from Legends it has a number of its own abilities that are not tied to Legends, i.e. their weapon attacks.

 

I'm not being pedantic, you just called me out for my headcanon, so i defended my standpoint with ingame lore and facts.

If you qualify Mist attacks as magical skills, then so are warrior signets and thief shadowsteps / vanishs ( Skills that are actually based on Tyrian magic ). Guess they are spellcasters, too.

 

The weapon skills the revenant uses mention summoning things from the mists, they aren't tied to the Legends, but they are still echoes from the past/future. We also see that a revenant isn't tied to only his legends, as he can freely summon jokos "legend" during a living story mission. It's probably the same with his weapon skills.

 

>

> Revenant does not operate in a brutish way.

 

Guess we have to disagree here. The way a revenant uses his weapons looks pretty brutish to me.

[InsaneQR.7412]

That moment a profession is so abyssmal that a new two handed weapon with hypothetical non existent skills would make it OP.

Thats a good one xD.

[Zenith.7301]

Greatsword as a melee weapon is a horrible idea because if it's better than mainhand sword it makes 1h obsolete and vice versa.

 

The last thing we need is redundant weapons.

 

I'd rather new elite specs alter weapon skills instead of adding new weapons, so we get an elite spec where the staff is an actual offensive weapon/etc. Hammer could change with a different spec to be a melee group buff/protect weapon,etc.

[Blue.1207]

> @"Zenith.7301" said:

> Greatsword as a melee weapon is a horrible idea because if it's better than mainhand sword it makes 1h obsolete and vice versa.

>

> The last thing we need is redundant weapons.

>

> I'd rather new elite specs alter weapon skills instead of adding new weapons, so we get an elite spec where the staff is an actual offensive weapon/etc. Hammer could change with a different spec to be a melee group buff/protect weapon,etc.

 

Lmao good joke man. Rev main hand will never be irrelevant because 1. it's the go to weapon in pvp, 2. It's the only sustained power dps option available for Rev, and 3. It is weldable both main, and offhand and easily pairs well with an second weapon set.

 

**GS's implementation will be power burst. Know what pairs perfectly with a power burst weapon? A weapon with consistent sustainable dps. Know what Rev's highest sustainable dps weapon/ auto attack currently is? Sword.**

 

I enjoy your theory that the implementation of a weapon in a space that Revenant SORELY needs would be considered redundant. It's almost as asinine as my theory about how rev will get a greatsword in the first place.

[LucianDK.8615]

Yet people are salty about revenants having bursty sword ofhand.

[Zenith.7301]

> @"Blue.1207" said:

> > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > Greatsword as a melee weapon is a horrible idea because if it's better than mainhand sword it makes 1h obsolete and vice versa.

> >

> > The last thing we need is redundant weapons.

> >

> > I'd rather new elite specs alter weapon skills instead of adding new weapons, so we get an elite spec where the staff is an actual offensive weapon/etc. Hammer could change with a different spec to be a melee group buff/protect weapon,etc.

>

> Lmao good joke man. Rev main hand will never be irrelevant because 1. it's the go to weapon in pvp, 2. It's the only sustained power dps option available for Rev, and 3. It is weldable both main, and offhand and easily pairs well with an second weapon set.

>

> **GS's implementation will be power burst. Know what pairs perfectly with a power burst weapon? A weapon with consistent sustainable dps. Know what Rev's highest sustainable dps weapon/ auto attack currently is? Sword.**

>

> I enjoy your theory that the implementation of a weapon in a space that Revenant SORELY needs would be considered redundant. It's almost as asinine as my theory about how rev will get a greatsword in the first place.

 

"sustained power dps option". It's not even sustained power DPS, mainhand sword is abysmal in that job and part of the reason why power herald is trash DPS in PvE if you had any clue.

 

Because greatsword would be a "burst" weapon, it would not fix remotely the revenant's problem of sustained dps in a power spec, it would only be an addition for burst on top of offhand sword 5 and sword 3 which already create problems in pvp (and sword 3, namely one of the most iconic skills for the class, got nerfed to the ground and was made unusable in pve thanks to pvp whine).

 

But by all means create more niche weapons for a garbage, dying format a tiny minority of the players participate in so we can obtain more irrelevant tools in pve right besides the shield and the revamped true nature skills.

[Blue.1207]

> @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > @"Blue.1207" said:

> > > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > Greatsword as a melee weapon is a horrible idea because if it's better than mainhand sword it makes 1h obsolete and vice versa.

> > >

> > > The last thing we need is redundant weapons.

> > >

> > > I'd rather new elite specs alter weapon skills instead of adding new weapons, so we get an elite spec where the staff is an actual offensive weapon/etc. Hammer could change with a different spec to be a melee group buff/protect weapon,etc.

> >

> > Lmao good joke man. Rev main hand will never be irrelevant because 1. it's the go to weapon in pvp, 2. It's the only sustained power dps option available for Rev, and 3. It is weldable both main, and offhand and easily pairs well with an second weapon set.

> >

> > **GS's implementation will be power burst. Know what pairs perfectly with a power burst weapon? A weapon with consistent sustainable dps. Know what Rev's highest sustainable dps weapon/ auto attack currently is? Sword.**

> >

> > I enjoy your theory that the implementation of a weapon in a space that Revenant SORELY needs would be considered redundant. It's almost as asinine as my theory about how rev will get a greatsword in the first place.

>

> "sustained power dps option". It's not even sustained power DPS, mainhand sword is abysmal in that job and part of the reason why power herald is trash DPS in PvE if you had any clue.

>

> Because greatsword would be a "burst" weapon, it would not fix remotely the revenant's problem of sustained dps in a power spec, it would only be an addition for burst on top of offhand sword 5 and sword 3 which already create problems in pvp (and sword 3, namely one of the most iconic skills for the class, got nerfed to the ground and was made unusable in pve thanks to pvp whine).

>

> But by all means create more niche weapons for a garbage, dying format a tiny minority of the players participate in so we can obtain more irrelevant tools in pve right besides the shield and the revamped true nature skills.

 

Terrible, terrible logic that doesn't merit a thought out response. I'm glad you're not on the dev team. Getting worked up over something that doesn't even exist and you know absolutely nothing about (we're in the same boat, welcome, please leave the salt in the water). You don't even factor in the potential of the utility skills that can effect the weapon swap as a whole. Top keks.

And yes. S/S is **sustained** dps, just as is the scepter for dh and the auto attack of a BS warrior. It is infact, the very definition of sustained dps because you're SUSTAINING your dps until the next burst phase. Also sword 3 was NEVER usable in any way shape or form in pve, it was always more damage just to auto attack and use s2 off cool down lmao.

 

In all the theory crafting nonsense I've been subject to, I've never seen someone complain about how the hypothetical wouldn't work simply because they don" want a greatsword on the class. It could be the most brilliant synergistic idea even brought to rev, and you sit there going "well hurrr it can't uhhh fix diissss thing here". It can potentially, but keep thinking it won't.

 

Good memes. I'll make sure to flex my eternity on ya when my rev's wielding it.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Raknar.4735" said:

> I'm not being pedantic, you just called me out for my headcanon, so i defended my standpoint with ingame lore and facts.

> If you qualify Mist attacks as magical skills, then so are warrior signets and thief shadowsteps / vanishs ( Skills that are actually based on Tyrian magic ). Guess they are spellcasters, too.

>

 

You say those things like it's a bad thing or it should detract from what Revenant does. The lore of the game does establish that it takes magic to enter or travel through the Mists, something that Revenant does. The lore of the game has also established that, as @"Knighthonor.4061" pointed out, that some professions channeled Mist energy to fuel their magic. The Mists are natural to Tyria, being the stuff that helps to create reality itself while magic is not (Tyrian magic was made possible only after the Six arrived and taught humans to use it). It stands to reason that if it takes magic to enter the Mist and a Revenant can do just that with some of its attacks, then they are using magic to do so. Also, since the Mists make up everything, in reality, magic would just be another form the Mists take.

 

As for Thief and Warrior being spellcasters is no real problem as in most forms of fiction spellcasting exists on a spectrum. Warrior is clearly on the low end here, along with Thief. Thieves make use of cantrips, a traditional name for low level magic, and something the Elementalist makes use of too. You already framed your argument around them being light spellcasters since you added that these skills are based on magic. They may not be spellcasters as in all of their attacks use magic but they clearly make use of magical knowledge to do some of their abilities.

 

> The weapon skills the revenant uses mention summoning things from the mists, they aren't tied to the Legends, but they are still echoes from the past/future. We also see that a revenant isn't tied to only his legends, as he can freely summon jokos "legend" during a living story mission. It's probably the same with his weapon skills.

>

 

And the lore establishes that summoning stuff from the Mists requires magic. Revenant clearly isn't tied to the Legends you get as a player, since those are done for mechanical reasons and within a purely lore and thematic setting issues would be capable of channeling many more Legends than we actually get to use. Though I really wouldn't consider that brief time you get to summon Joko as freely since it happens under specific circumstances.

 

>

> Guess we have to disagree here. The way a revenant uses his weapons looks pretty brutish to me.

 

Yeah, except I'm not wrong. To be brutish is to be savagely violent. To be savage is to be cruel, vicious, aggressively hostile. None of these fit Revenant. They are violent but they aren't savagely violent. Their attacks are not cruel or vicious. They aren't uncontrolled. They are very precise. The only way Revenant would count as brutish is if we aren't using the actual meaning of brutish.

 

 

[Dace.8173]

> @"Zenith.7301" said:

> Greatsword as a melee weapon is a horrible idea because if it's better than mainhand sword it makes 1h obsolete and vice versa.

>

> The last thing we need is redundant weapons.

>

> I'd rather new elite specs alter weapon skills instead of adding new weapons, so we get an elite spec where the staff is an actual offensive weapon/etc. Hammer could change with a different spec to be a melee group buff/protect weapon,etc.

 

There is nothing that promises it would make main-hand sword obsolete. It is possible to have more than one weapon that performs similar functions but in different ways. Most other professions have that going for them. We are also a long way off from having to duplicate weapons. From a purely business POV you'll garner more interest by offering new weapons instead of changing old ones. New weapons gives you a chance to actually have something different. It also benefits people who love Legendaries and weapon skins. One of the driving factors behind why people, in general, want specific weapons brought in is because they have a Legendary in mind that they wish they could use.

 

Granted, they really need a new Legendary greatsword as I hate the current ones but that is beside the point.

[Aeolus.3615]

A GS build would be great if could be paired with Shiro, and if would be based on counter and atack, just like Renegade can work with malyx (some renegade and malyx could have less energy consuption >_>)

 

IMO GS for revent should be tied to the canthan zone, doubt that will be Anet next continent to explorer.

[Raknar.4735]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> You say those things like it's a bad thing or it should detract from what Revenant does. The lore of the game does establish that it takes magic to enter or travel through the Mists, something that Revenant does. The lore of the game has also established that, as @"Knighthonor.4061" pointed out, that some professions channeled Mist energy to fuel their magic. The Mists are natural to Tyria, being the stuff that helps to create reality itself while magic is not (Tyrian magic was made possible only after the Six arrived and taught humans to use it).

 

I've never seen the lore outright saying that Revs use magic to enter or travel through the Mists.

Tyrian magic was always there, it is part of the cycle of the elder dragons. The Seers tried to stop the EDs from consuming everything, that's why they created the Bloodstone. That magic is natural to Tyria.

Abaddon, one of the Six, used the Bloodstone to rerelease magic back into Tyria.

 

>The lore of the game has also established that, as @"Knighthonor.4061" pointed out, that some professions channeled Mist energy to fuel their magic.

 

The official wiki of GW1 says this:

"Through their spirits, the Ritualists were able to practice magic, or something close to it. When magic was granted by the gods, many of the original abilities were strengthened and merged into their modern form."

There's a clear distinction between before, and after Abaddon released the magic via the Bloodstone. Magic and "Mist energy" are not the same.

 

>It stands to reason that if it takes magic to enter the Mist and a Revenant can do just that with some of its attacks, then they are using magic to do so. Also, since the Mists make up everything, in reality, magic would just be another form the Mists take.

 

Still not Tyrian magic. If you say the Mists make up everything, everyone is just made of Mist energy. Since everything is just "another form the Mists take".

 

> As for Thief and Warrior being spellcasters is no real problem as in most forms of fiction spellcasting exists on a spectrum. Warrior is clearly on the low end here, along with Thief. Thieves make use of cantrips, a traditional name for low level magic, and something the Elementalist makes use of too. You already framed your argument around them being light spellcasters since you added that these skills are based on magic. They may not be spellcasters as in all of their attacks use magic but they clearly make use of magical knowledge to do some of their abilities.

 

That's what i wanted to say, everyone uses Tyrian magic one way or another. So you could call everyone a "light spellcaster", making that classification useless.

 

> And the lore establishes that summoning stuff from the Mists requires magic. Revenant clearly isn't tied to the Legends you get as a player, since those are done for mechanical reasons and within a purely lore and thematic setting issues would be capable of channeling many more Legends than we actually get to use. Though I really wouldn't consider that brief time you get to summon Joko as freely since it happens under specific circumstances.

 

I would still like to see where the lore establishes that summoning stuff from the Mists requires magic.

"Ritualists were able to practice magic, or something close to it", even before magic was shared across Tyria, through their connection to their descendants.

 

 

> Yeah, except I'm not wrong. To be brutish is to be savagely violent. To be savage is to be cruel, vicious, aggressively hostile. None of these fit Revenant. They are violent but they aren't savagely violent. Their attacks are not cruel or vicious. They aren't uncontrolled. They are very precise. The only way Revenant would count as brutish is if we aren't using the actual meaning of brutish.

 

Everything about Mallyx and Shiro is savagely violent. Torment is their main condition, how is that not cruel? One of thier skill names is called "brutal blade". While channeling Mallyx they are uncontrolled. I can't see how they are not brutish. But it looks like you have your own definition of the word.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Raknar.4735" said:

> I've never seen the lore outright saying that Revs use magic to enter or travel through the Mists.

> Tyrian magic was always there, it is part of the cycle of the elder dragons. The Seers tried to stop the EDs from consuming everything, that's why they created the Bloodstone. That magic is natural to Tyria.

> Abaddon, one of the Six, used the Bloodstone to rerelease magic back into Tyria.

 

They likely felt that it wouldn't need to be spelled out that something that requires magic to travel through would mean that Revenant is using magic to travel through it. Also, magic, as practiced by humans, is not native to Tyria. Before the gods gave them magic Ritualist used the Mists as their form of power. Humans had to have the knowledge given to them from the gods.

 

>

> >The lore of the game has also established that, as @"Knighthonor.4061" pointed out, that some professions channeled Mist energy to fuel their magic.

>

> The official wiki of GW1 says this:

> "Through their spirits, the Ritualists were able to practice magic, or something close to it. When magic was granted by the gods, many of the original abilities were strengthened and merged into their modern form."

> There's a clear distinction between before, and after Abaddon released the magic via the Bloodstone. Magic and "Mist energy" are not the same.

>

 

It states clearly they were merged and strengthened.

 

>

> Still not Tyrian magic. If you say the Mists make up everything, everyone is just made of Mist energy. Since everything is just "another form the Mists take".

>

 

The game lore is pretty clear that everything is made from the Mists.

 

"Before there were humans or dwarves, before there were even worlds or the stars that light the night sky, there was but one thing in the universe—the Mists. The Mists touch all things. They are what binds the universe together, past, present, and future. They are the source of all good and evil, of all matter and knowledge. It is said that all forms of life, no matter how simple or complex, can trace their origins back to this one place."

 

There is also

 

"The Mists is the realm of the afterlife and the proto-reality that exists between the worlds which in turn are the building blocks of reality."

 

If the Mists are everything and the building blocks of reality itself then magic is apart of it. The Mists existed before there was a Tyria and Tyria is only possible because of the Mists. Since magic is apart of Tyria, per your own argument, and the Mists are the building blocks of Tyria then magic is apart of the Mists. They aren't separate. Nothing is separate from the Mists. There was no separate Tyria with its own separate rules with its own brand of magic. There was the Mists and everything evolved and developed from it.

 

>

> That's what i wanted to say, everyone uses Tyrian magic one way or another. So you could call everyone a "light spellcaster", making that classification useless.

 

Yeah, but that proves the point I was making. Remember, the Mists is everything. Even the knowledge of magic is made possible via the Mists. If there were no Mists there would be no Tyria for there to be Tyrian magic.

 

 

> I would still like to see where the lore establishes that summoning stuff from the Mists requires magic.

> "Ritualists were able to practice magic, or something close to it", even before magic was shared across Tyria, through their connection to their descendants.

>

 

Well aside from showing that everything in exists is made up of the Mists there is the story of Lord Ordan.

 

> Everything about Mallyx and Shiro is savagely violent. Torment is their main condition, how is that not cruel? One of thier skill names is called "brutal blade". While channeling Mallyx they are uncontrolled. I can't see how they are not brutish. But it looks like you have your own definition of the word.

 

I used Webster's dictionary. Everything I said about brutish was pulled straight from the dictionary. So no, don't have my own definition. There is nothing savage about Shiro. The bulk of his powers are movement based and freezing people in Jade. Since when is moving consider savage? Don't see that anywhere in Websters. There is nothing in Mallyx that indicates it's savagely violent either. Mallyx isn't described as such. His actual powers allow you to absorb the pain of your allies (conditions), confuse the enemy, leap toward your enemy by going through the Mists (realm of Torment is the Mists), become a dark avatar (being evil is not an inherently savage thing), and heal yourself based on how much pain you absorbed from your friends. None of that is actually savage unless you are using some new definition of savage. As a matter of fact, summoning a dark avatar of something demonically evil would typically require you to not be savage if you wanted any hope of not losing control to the demonic powers you are calling into yourself, something the Revenant can end at a whim. So that leaves you only with one ability that has the name brutal in it. Even if I granted you Mallyx, and I'm not, the overwhelming majority of Revenant wouldn't fit the description of brutish. Even if I granted you both Shiro and Mallyx the overwhelming majority of Revenant still wouldn't fit the definition of brutish.

 

 

[narcx.3570]

> @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> Yet people are salty about revenants having bursty sword ofhand.

 

Yeah, I was trying to say this earlier, imagine being able to use your sword offhand skills and then immediately double swap to a new legend and greatsword and unload that burst as well... The QQ from other classes would be real.

[LucianDK.8615]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > Yet people are salty about revenants having bursty sword ofhand.

>

> Yeah, I was trying to say this earlier, imagine being able to use your sword offhand skills and then immediately double swap to a new legend and greatsword and unload that burst as well... The QQ from other classes would be real.

 

Exactly, that is why I think the third espec will not be what people expect due to the nature of the revenant's legend system.

[Buran.3796]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

 

> Yeah, except I'm not wrong. To be brutish is to be savagely violent. To be savage is to be cruel, vicious, aggressively hostile. None of these fit Revenant. They are violent but they aren't savagely violent. Their attacks are not cruel or vicious. They aren't uncontrolled. They are very precise. The only way Revenant would count as brutish is if we aren't using the actual meaning of brutish.

>

>

Yeah, our attacks are so surgical that in WvW both Precission Strike and UA keep randomly hit supplies (not to mention that in PvE UA near obstacles is still a risk of end entangled in the wireframe of the landscape)...

 

[ScottBroChill.3254]

Wait, hold up. Are there like specific skills and a playstyle that revenant has to have if they get greatsword or am I missing something?

[Dace.8173]

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"LucianDK.8615" said:

> > Yet people are salty about revenants having bursty sword ofhand.

>

> Yeah, I was trying to say this earlier, imagine being able to use your sword offhand skills and then immediately double swap to a new legend and greatsword and unload that burst as well... The QQ from other classes would be real.

 

I think greatsword might be viable if it wasn't a burst weapon. I think there are ways to make it viable and not OP. Whether or not we get there is another thing. Like a gs that was defensive in nature so that staff could take a break might be more viable than a greatsword built around being a DPS burst weapon. Not that I'm saying I want a greatsword, just that I think if it were set up as a defensive weapon it might not be problematic.

 

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

>

> > Yeah, except I'm not wrong. To be brutish is to be savagely violent. To be savage is to be cruel, vicious, aggressively hostile. None of these fit Revenant. They are violent but they aren't savagely violent. Their attacks are not cruel or vicious. They aren't uncontrolled. They are very precise. The only way Revenant would count as brutish is if we aren't using the actual meaning of brutish.

> >

> >

> Yeah, our attacks are so surgical that in WvW both Precission Strike and UA keep randomly hit supplies (not to mention that in PvE UA near obstacles is still a risk of end entangled in the wireframe of the landscape)...

>

 

Two skills do not support it being savage. If Revenant was just that weapon and just those skills maybe you'd have a point but you're getting extremely reductionist to make your point. Though I never said anything about surgical. Additionally, the problem with UA isn't the level to which it is surgical but the actual animation and it not being able to adapt to positioning around obstacles. That's a mechanical issue that should be addressed. The fact that you are complaining about its use in only two instances as opposed to all instances means the skill leans more towards "surgical" when normally used. The fact that you are describing issues with the animation of the skill also undermines your attempted point.

 

Finding exceptions to when a skill works normally (and with some of those exceptions being not about the nature of the attack but the animations involved) does not support an argument for brutish.

[narcx.3570]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

> Two skills do not support it being savage. If Revenant was just that weapon and just those skills maybe you'd have a point but you're getting extremely reductionist to make your point. Though I never said anything about surgical. Additionally, the problem with UA isn't the level to which it is surgical but the actual animation and it not being able to adapt to positioning around obstacles. That's a mechanical issue that should be addressed. The fact that you are complaining about its use in only two instances as opposed to all instances means the skill leans more towards "surgical" when normally used. The fact that you are describing issues with the animation of the skill also undermines your attempted point.

>

> Finding exceptions to when a skill works normally (and with some of those exceptions being not about the nature of the attack but the animations involved) does not support an argument for brutish.

 

If anything, things like this more embrace the theme of a surgical assassin... For example, my precision strike almost never hits something I don't want it to, because I position myself and use target's hitboxes to my advantage (turn off melee attack assist in options for maximum Rev'ing.)

 

Spamming skills and missing doesn't itself make the class unsurgical... I mean, there are some surgeons out there who maul their patients and then blame the scalpels, know what I mean? :bleep_bloop:

[Buran.3796]

> @"Dace.8173" said:

 

> Finding exceptions to when a skill works normally (and with some of those exceptions being not about the nature of the attack but the animations involved) does not support an argument for brutish.

 

I put those two examples as a joke mocking the suppossed "finesse" the class has for you. But if we look the class as a whole the Revenant is nothing but a AoE power house: Elemental Blast, Chaotic Release, Burst of Strength, Jade Winds, Unyielding Anguish, Inspiring Reinforcement, Vengeful Hammers, Embrace the Darkness,Surge of the Mist, Shackling Wave, Coalescence of Ruin, Phase Smash, Drop The Hammer, Searing Fissure, Echoing Eruption, Temporal Rift... Most of their skills are huge cleave areas which in my opinion fit better the B-52 Stratofortress description of "carpet bombing" than the supposed role of "precisse assassin". Renegade made it worse: the short bow lacks the nimble fluidity of the Ranger and Thief equivalent and all the whole Kalla skills are based on random area drops instead of the hit and run strikes performed in guerrilla warfare.

[Dace.8173]

> @"Buran.3796" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

>

> > Finding exceptions to when a skill works normally (and with some of those exceptions being not about the nature of the attack but the animations involved) does not support an argument for brutish.

>

> I put those two examples as a joke mocking the suppossed "finesse" the class has for you. But if we look the class as a whole the Revenant is nothing but a AoE power house: Elemental Blast, Chaotic Release, Burst of Strength, Jade Winds, Unyielding Anguish, Inspiring Reinforcement, Vengeful Hammers, Embrace the Darkness,Surge of the Mist, Shackling Wave, Coalescence of Ruin, Phase Smash, Drop The Hammer, Searing Fissure, Echoing Eruption, Temporal Rift... Most of their skills are huge cleave areas which in my opinion fit better the B-52 Stratofortress description of "carpet bombing" than the supposed role of "precisse assassin". Renegade made it worse: the short bow lacks the nimble fluidity of the Ranger and Thief equivalent and all the whole Kalla skills are based on random area drops instead of the hit and run strikes performed in guerrilla warfare.

 

uh hu, sure.

 

> @"narcx.3570" said:

> > @"Dace.8173" said:

> > Two skills do not support it being savage. If Revenant was just that weapon and just those skills maybe you'd have a point but you're getting extremely reductionist to make your point. Though I never said anything about surgical. Additionally, the problem with UA isn't the level to which it is surgical but the actual animation and it not being able to adapt to positioning around obstacles. That's a mechanical issue that should be addressed. The fact that you are complaining about its use in only two instances as opposed to all instances means the skill leans more towards "surgical" when normally used. The fact that you are describing issues with the animation of the skill also undermines your attempted point.

> >

> > Finding exceptions to when a skill works normally (and with some of those exceptions being not about the nature of the attack but the animations involved) does not support an argument for brutish.

>

> If anything, things like this more embrace the theme of a surgical assassin... For example, my precision strike almost never hits something I don't want it to, because I position myself and use target's hitboxes to my advantage (turn off melee attack assist in options for maximum Rev'ing.)

>

> Spamming skills and missing doesn't itself make the class unsurgical... I mean, there are some surgeons out there who maul their patients and then blame the scalpels, know what I mean? :bleep_bloop:

 

To be honest, I don't really have that much trouble with Unrelenting Assualt or Precision Strike. Since most of Revenant requires me to be aware of positioning to make the best use of my abilities, the last thing you want to do is Riposting Shadows into a wall or over the edge of a cliff, I find myself having no problem waiting until I know I won't hit things I don't need to before making use of those two abilities.