Thief Changes 12/11/18

[pureskullz.7536]

If they keep lowering down the damage of everyone it will eventually get rid of this one-shot meta at least but still a long way to go if that's the goal.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"pureskullz.7536" said:

> If they keep lowering down the damage of everyone it will eventually get rid of this one-shot meta at least but still a long way to go if that's the goal.

 

for lower bursts but still ending fights, one would also have to increase recovery times alot.

[Weasel.9684]

Christ why is no one talking about the changes on consume plasma that’s huge in swinging the matchup against mesmers.Especially condi ones

[Misquesh.9504]

If these changes were made to please the PvP crowd - I'm disappointed. PvP shouldn't affect PvE unless it's some major rework with new animations and mechanics. Stat changes for PvP should stay in PvP. NPCs don't cry about getting one-shot through block.

 

If these changes were made for PvE - it's not good either. Damage decrease, but with better synergies for non-elite weapon types. That looks promising and actually interesting, but changes are minimal, so it's not enough to justify the nerfs. Blockable DJ and 20% crit into 240 precision changes are just stupid though. Rifle Deadeye suffers enough already. Someone at Arenanet really hates rifles I guess and probably get strokes from hearing "Pumped up Kicks" too. I would give them a hug and whisper "stop nerfing the spec that I bought the expansion for, please".

[StabbersTheThird.6053]

Raid rotation is back boys and girls! Dagger mode lets go - 1-1-1-1-1-1-1-5-1-1-1-1-1-1-5-1-1-1-1-1-1.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> We've also had the opportunity to update thief weapon traits to the new standard of having a baseline value in addition to **the benefits while wielding that weapon**.

Looking at the "standard" some of the other classes (and thief weapons) got for their weapon specific traits it's safe to say that Ankle Shots is definitely not on par with them. The trait is rather useless for pistol based builds as Practiced Tolerance essentially does the same thing but better unless all you do is being in a party fighting boss mobs. Removing the proc chance does nothing for the trait either since the cooldown is the actual problem here, not that it really matters since you can just use the rifle to perma cripple your opponent (it's the better "pistol" anyways).

 

 

[Jack Redline.5379]

The propper expression i would use is

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

ah

okay so

basically they again boosted power based builds. Expectable not welcome in any aspect. I am happy staff DD got Vault nerfed

I dont really think that nerfing consume plasma stab and block was necessary since that was the main reason we wanted it

but okay

i am not sure if i understood the lead attack as a nerf or no since i dont really know how it will affect me in game i will see shortly i guess

i am really angery about the pistol buff since it will increase the number of pistol based DE noobs that will spam the kitten out of everything

also i am not happy they have improved Cluster Bomb they could have improved Choking gas.

that would be all

DE doesnt concern me

and tbh If they wanted to grant stats improvement they could also consider some condi dmg improvement not only power

cuz you see

 

THERE ARE ALSO CONDI THIEVES ANET OKAY WE WANT SOME BUFF AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Elxdark.9702]

> @"Weasel.9684" said:

> Christ why is no one talking about the changes on consume plasma that’s huge in swinging the matchup against mesmers.Especially condi ones

 

because it wasn't nerfed for us??

Resistance + quickness is still there my friend, nothing has changed for the match up against mesmer.

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> Patch seems ok. It's about time they made DJ blockable. Though I would have rather them just removed it altogether and brought back Cursed Bullet...

 

Not like theres alot of projectile hate/reflects around,not that Dj is easy to dodge,not that it has a clear visual and audible cue,lmao.

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

> @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> The propper expression i would use is

> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

> ah

> okay so

> basically they again boosted power based builds. Expectable not welcome in any aspect. I am happy staff DD got Vault nerfed

> I dont really think that nerfing consume plasma stab and block was necessary since that was the main reason we wanted it

> but okay

> i am not sure if i understood the lead attack as a nerf or no since i dont really know how it will affect me in game i will see shortly i guess

> i am really angery about the pistol buff since it will increase the number of pistol based DE noobs that will spam the kitten out of everything

> also i am not happy they have improved Cluster Bomb they could have improved Choking gas.

> that would be all

> DE doesnt concern me

> and tbh If they wanted to grant stats improvement they could also consider some condi dmg improvement not only power

> cuz you see

>

> THERE ARE ALSO CONDI THIEVES ANET OKAY WE WANT SOME BUFF AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Power builds were mostly nerfed, condi did get a buff in lotus strikes (assuming D/X) and choking gas is already fine as it is. If anything it could use nerfs in WvW.

 

The stat changes to swindler's equilibrium and silent scope will be interesting to play with, I have a feeling I may need to replace my dura runes on my talky build if we're losing the 10% modifier on swindler's plus reduced uptime from lead attacks tho. Will have to play and see.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > Patch seems ok. It's about time they made DJ blockable. Though I would have rather them just removed it altogether and brought back Cursed Bullet...

>

> Not like theres alot of projectile hate/reflects around,not that Dj is easy to dodge,not that it has a clear visual and audible cue,lmao.

 

It never needed to be unblockable to be effective in the first place. It's sad that we no longer have any blockable abilities without Basi venom, but at the same time, it's super rare that I fired a DJ into a reflect anyway. Generally I would have swapped to Sw/P immediately after their reflect started. My DJ's only really missed when they were evaded, hit invisible obstructions, or were "out of range" (while still well within range).

 

The only matchup I'll really feel the missing unblockable now is Mirages with perma reflect on dodge. Those ones I often stayed rifle for the backwards mobility, and would often get DJ's through.

 

-this is from a WvW perspective, I understand things in sPvP are different.

[Gatvin.6510]

I mean I get that the plan was to nerf burst this patch, and since burst damage is basically the entirety of what Malice does they felt like they needed to hit something, but I always thought the unblockable part of DJ was the interesting part. I find Rifle already MUCH more difficult to play than most other classes and builds. Maybe that's just me, but the unblockable part kept me feeling engaged with the fight. Rather than ineffectually pestering people and occasionally getting lucky. I suppose I can just do a lot more strategic waiting now, but that's ...not as fun.

[Xtinct.7031]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > Patch seems ok. It's about time they made DJ blockable. Though I would have rather them just removed it altogether and brought back Cursed Bullet...

> >

> > Not like theres alot of projectile hate/reflects around,not that Dj is easy to dodge,not that it has a clear visual and audible cue,lmao.

>

> It never needed to be unblockable to be effective in the first place. It's sad that we no longer have any blockable abilities without Basi venom, but at the same time, it's super rare that I fired a DJ into a reflect anyway. Generally I would have swapped to Sw/P immediately after their reflect started. My DJ's only really missed when they were evaded, hit invisible obstructions, or were "out of range" (while still well within range).

>

> The only matchup I'll really feel the missing unblockable now is Mirages with perma reflect on dodge. Those ones I often stayed rifle for the backwards mobility, and would often get DJ's through.

>

> -this is from a WvW perspective, I understand things in sPvP are different.

 

Ya bro, If I know the mesmer is running evasive mirror I sometimes won't even both fighting it on any projectile build. I just ooc if I can and move on to another target.

[Platanos.8107]

> @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > @"Weasel.9684" said:

> > Christ why is no one talking about the changes on consume plasma that’s huge in swinging the matchup against mesmers.Especially condi ones

>

> because it wasn't nerfed for us??

> Resistance + quickness is still there my friend, nothing has changed for the match up against mesmer.

 

It did get nerfed. The duration on protection and stab is less than half. Not saying anything about the matchup against mesmers, just saying that it has indeed been nerfed.

[Elxdark.9702]

> @"Platanos.8107" said:

> > @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > > @"Weasel.9684" said:

> > > Christ why is no one talking about the changes on consume plasma that’s huge in swinging the matchup against mesmers.Especially condi ones

> >

> > because it wasn't nerfed for us??

> > Resistance + quickness is still there my friend, nothing has changed for the match up against mesmer.

>

> It did get nerfed. The duration on protection and stab is less than half. Not saying anything about the matchup against mesmers, just saying that it has indeed been nerfed.

 

Yes I know but the guy I quoted he literally said that the nerf to plasma changed the matchup but that's isn't true.

[DeceiverX.8361]

> @"Elxdark.9702" said:

> > @"Kain Francois.4328" said:

> > I just don't understand the changes from percent to power. It's unintuitive.

> >

> > What does it actually increase % damage by now?

>

> They are trying to tone down the damage in general and that's a really good step imo.

 

I disagree. I think damage modifiers are a healthier way to approach building for damage. More investment for more reward but it comes at a bigger cost to defenses to take full advantage of the scaling.

 

When you give out lots of bonus fixed stats all it really does is basically let people cover their weaknesses with padded stats and end up mathematically stronger than before when measuring incoming to outgoing damage. It's why boons are a major problem and it's also why holo and soulbeast have remained so busted since they get to be tanky and deal lots of damage from their sheer stat pools.

[Alatar.7364]

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

> > @"Jack Redline.5379" said:

> > The propper expression i would use is

> > AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

> > ah

> > okay so

> > basically they again boosted power based builds. Expectable not welcome in any aspect. I am happy staff DD got Vault nerfed

> > I dont really think that nerfing consume plasma stab and block was necessary since that was the main reason we wanted it

> > but okay

> > i am not sure if i understood the lead attack as a nerf or no since i dont really know how it will affect me in game i will see shortly i guess

> > i am really angery about the pistol buff since it will increase the number of pistol based DE noobs that will spam the kitten out of everything

> > also i am not happy they have improved Cluster Bomb they could have improved Choking gas.

> > that would be all

> > DE doesnt concern me

> > and tbh If they wanted to grant stats improvement they could also consider some condi dmg improvement not only power

> > cuz you see

> >

> > THERE ARE ALSO CONDI THIEVES ANET OKAY WE WANT SOME BUFF AS WELL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

>

> Power builds were mostly nerfed, condi did get a buff in lotus strikes (assuming D/X) and choking gas is already fine as it is. If anything it could use nerfs in WvW.

>

> The stat changes to swindler's equilibrium and silent scope will be interesting to play with, I have a feeling I may need to replace my dura runes on my talky build if we're losing the 10% modifier on swindler's plus reduced uptime from lead attacks tho. Will have to play and see.

 

We are not losing 10% on SE, SE gives 240 power if you are running sword (which I assume you were prior to update because there was no other reason to take SE without Sword) and I am pretty sure 240 power is much more than 10%. Not to mention that unlike previous SE, this +240p SE also affects whatever offhand weapon you're holding, so it's dmg will too be increased.

[babazhook.6805]

S/P might be interesting and I am trying to determine whether damage greater taking practiced tolerance for ferocity or if it greater using Ankle shot traits combined with taking swindlers equlibrium. One should be able to keep crippled on so would get 10 percent bonus to damage out of CS plus the +240 power in the Acro line for having a sword.

 

 

[DemonSeed.3528]

> @"babazhook.6805" said:

> S/P might be interesting and I am trying to determine whether damage greater taking practiced tolerance for ferocity or if it greater using Ankle shot traits combined with taking swindlers equlibrium. One should be able to keep crippled on so would get 10 percent bonus to damage out of CS plus the +240 power in the Acro line for having a sword.

>

>

 

I'm messing with that and sigil of incapacitation added in

[Jack Redline.5379]

> @"Jugglemonkey.8741" said:

 

> Power builds were mostly nerfed, condi did get a buff in lotus strikes (assuming D/X) and choking gas is already fine as it is. If anything it could use nerfs in WvW.

>

> The stat changes to swindler's equilibrium and silent scope will be interesting to play with, I have a feeling I may need to replace my dura runes on my talky build if we're losing the 10% modifier on swindler's plus reduced uptime from lead attacks tho. Will have to play and see.

 

I see you are a clearly proffesional in the condi aspect of thief class so i will not bother explaining to you how useful one stack of poison on lotus strike is especially when majority of thieves runs Mug in PVP so good day to you

[SehferViega.8725]

 

> We are not losing 10% on SE, SE gives 240 power if you are running sword (which I assume you were prior to update because there was no other reason to take SE without Sword) and I am pretty sure 240 power is much more than 10%. Not to mention that unlike previous SE, this +240p SE also affects whatever offhand weapon you're holding, so it's dmg will too be increased.

 

In PvP 240 power is more then 10%.. but in WvW for example I run S/D with 3100 power (and now I'll have around 3340 power).. +240 power is "useless" compared with +10% damage.

[Bern.9613]

A thief has 4 weapons to main hand, pistol (nerfed a while ago), dagger (what a surprise, nerfed yet again), rifle (nerfed) and sword (how much longer before every thief runs a s/x build and this too goes limp?) Flanking Strike and Larcenous Strike seem to be the last of the unblockable skills a thief has left while everyone else has unblockable skills, channels, tethers, etc. Oh and let's not forget that great "addition" to the "game of trolls", target painter. When I first started to play 6 yrs ago, the thief was advertised as "the scourge of the battlefield." Today I'm not so sure this applies. Today i would not migrate my guild from the other MMO to GW2 nor would I recommend the other stealth class minded ppl to play. I am truly disappointed in the evolution of the thief in this game. Pretty sure the next elite skill for the thief is going to be the care bear stare.

[Turk.5460]

> @"Gatvin.6510" said:

> ...Rather than ineffectually pestering people and occasionally getting lucky.

 

I wouldn't call 4k crits from Skirmisher's shot ineffectual. Nor 10k Pistol Whips. DJ hardly holds the identity of Thief Rifle, it was only made the focus by the players because they thought that they should focus on it...

 

> @"Bern.9613" said:

> A thief has 4 weapons to main hand, pistol (nerfed a while ago), dagger (what a surprise, nerfed yet again), rifle (nerfed) and sword (how much longer before every thief runs a s/x build and this too goes limp?) Flanking Strike and Larcenous Strike seem to be the last of the unblockable skills a thief has left while everyone else has unblockable skills, channels, tethers, etc. Oh and let's not forget that great "addition" to the "game of trolls", target painter. When I first started to play 6 yrs ago, the thief was advertised as "the scourge of the battlefield." Today I'm not so sure this applies. Today i would not migrate my guild from the other MMO to GW2 nor would I recommend the other stealth class minded ppl to play. I am truly disappointed in the evolution of the thief in this game. Pretty sure the next elite skill for the thief is going to be the care bear stare.

 

Oh cry me a river. I'm sick of hearing this type of sob story whining after anything is even remotely tuned downwards in a patch. Thieves are still highly capable killers, 1vX harassers and escapist artists. With *by far* the highest skill ceiling of any profession, we can only get better and *more* dangerous by practicing and tweaking our playstyles.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Turk.5460" said:

> > @"Gatvin.6510" said:

> > ...Rather than ineffectually pestering people and occasionally getting lucky.

>

> I wouldn't call 4k crits from Skirmisher's shot ineffectual. Nor 10k Pistol Whips. DJ hardly holds the identity of Thief Rifle, it was only made the focus by the players because they thought that they should focus on it...

>

> > @"Bern.9613" said:

> > A thief has 4 weapons to main hand, pistol (nerfed a while ago), dagger (what a surprise, nerfed yet again), rifle (nerfed) and sword (how much longer before every thief runs a s/x build and this too goes limp?) Flanking Strike and Larcenous Strike seem to be the last of the unblockable skills a thief has left while everyone else has unblockable skills, channels, tethers, etc. Oh and let's not forget that great "addition" to the "game of trolls", target painter. When I first started to play 6 yrs ago, the thief was advertised as "the scourge of the battlefield." Today I'm not so sure this applies. Today i would not migrate my guild from the other MMO to GW2 nor would I recommend the other stealth class minded ppl to play. I am truly disappointed in the evolution of the thief in this game. Pretty sure the next elite skill for the thief is going to be the care bear stare.

>

> Oh cry me a river. I'm sick of hearing this type of sob story whining after anything is even remotely tuned downwards in a patch. Thieves are still highly capable killers, 1vX harassers and escapist artists. With *by far* the highest skill ceiling of any profession, we can only get better and *more* dangerous by practicing and tweaking our playstyles.

 

Wish that were true ^

Ur not 1vs anything unless ur lucky a player screed his rotation or timing up or a new player. Harassing but not finishing the job is so fun, for everyone! Poke and reset due to mediocre damage and crap sustain type of duels are very health and are crazy fun for all, u keep practicing u little deadly guy u! Lol

[Turk.5460]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"Turk.5460" said:

> > > @"Gatvin.6510" said:

> > > ...Rather than ineffectually pestering people and occasionally getting lucky.

> >

> > I wouldn't call 4k crits from Skirmisher's shot ineffectual. Nor 10k Pistol Whips. DJ hardly holds the identity of Thief Rifle, it was only made the focus by the players because they thought that they should focus on it...

> >

> > > @"Bern.9613" said:

> > > A thief has 4 weapons to main hand, pistol (nerfed a while ago), dagger (what a surprise, nerfed yet again), rifle (nerfed) and sword (how much longer before every thief runs a s/x build and this too goes limp?) Flanking Strike and Larcenous Strike seem to be the last of the unblockable skills a thief has left while everyone else has unblockable skills, channels, tethers, etc. Oh and let's not forget that great "addition" to the "game of trolls", target painter. When I first started to play 6 yrs ago, the thief was advertised as "the scourge of the battlefield." Today I'm not so sure this applies. Today i would not migrate my guild from the other MMO to GW2 nor would I recommend the other stealth class minded ppl to play. I am truly disappointed in the evolution of the thief in this game. Pretty sure the next elite skill for the thief is going to be the care bear stare.

> >

> > Oh cry me a river. I'm sick of hearing this type of sob story whining after anything is even remotely tuned downwards in a patch. Thieves are still highly capable killers, 1vX harassers and escapist artists. With *by far* the highest skill ceiling of any profession, we can only get better and *more* dangerous by practicing and tweaking our playstyles.

>

> Wish that were true ^

> Ur not 1vs anything unless ur lucky a player screed his rotation or timing up or a new player. Harassing but not finishing the job is so fun, for everyone! Poke and reset due to mediocre damage and kitten sustain type of duels are very health and are crazy fun for all, u keep practicing u little deadly guy u! Lol

 

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you may be talking about sPvP. I clearly stated earlier in this same thread that my point of view is WvW only. But if you're not talking about sPvP...oof, keep at it, you'll get better eventually?

 

Nothing should be able to 1vX *and kill* equally skilled opponents. I'm sorry that you believe resetting is your only ticket to winning a duel. It seems as though *you're* the one who needs some practice if you can't win any duels without getting scared and resetting. :3