A Note on Future Boon Direction

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Linken.6345" said:

> > @"Will.9785" said:

> > This will be far worse for the game. The people asking for it don't realize what they have done.

> >

> > Right now there are essentially 4 slots: DPS, Banners, Druid, Chrono.

> >

> > I would imagine that most people have between 1-3 of the current slots fully geared and they actually know how to play them properly. A few people have all 4.

> >

> > Now you'll need 6 slots to fill, but the average player will still only have gear for 1-3 characters.

> >

> > If this change goes through and the number of slots increases to 5, 6, or maybe even higher it will be even more difficult to fill a raid.

>

> What do you mean if its already pushed through.

He probably meant the future changes Irenio alluded to.

 

[Jski.6180]

If boons are going to be so important to each class how will you make the boons in them self balance with each other. Right now there 4 boons that are significantly stronger then the other boons and these 4 boons are on a very specialized set of classes. Should we re-balances the boon effects in them self and not what classes are have nots and haves.

 

At what point is stab going to be equal to reg at any level?

[perilisk.1874]

> @"HELLruler.4820" said:

> Please consider merging Quickness and Alacrity. They have a lot in common (making actions faster) and that would be helpful to make Chrono less dominant since it's the only class that can output both of those insanely important boons.

>

> As a second note, check Ranger's spirits (especially Spirit of Frost) and Warrior's banners. Those two mechanics make these two classes way too important because spirits' and banners' buffs are unique and no other class can bring something alike to compete for their squad spot.

 

Wouldn't that make them even more unbalanced than they already are?

 

As a side note, they could always add a new boon-support boon for what SoI does. Like the opposite of resistance, slows/halts boon timers while active.

[mixxed.5862]

So to be clear they'll release new attribute combinations with boon duration that allow for new builds with both boon support and decent damage. Like some firebrand and renegade builds currently do (without the use of boon duration gear).

I think it's a good approach, although I'm not sure whether it can be easily accomplished.

 

They didn't ever argue for "forcing fixed team comps". To the contrary allowing for more complex compositions with multiple support/dps hybrid builds would just diversify the meta. And probably allow for more involved gameplay that isn't as one dimensional as with pure dps or boon spam (depends on the build obviously). It makes sense and I don't get why this thread is such a saltmine: They don't intend to keep nerfing every current support build at all. They simply stated they're going to ADD new stuff... I'm on board with that as long as it's not the introduction of 5-stat gear, that'd be ridiculous.

 

First off, thank you to the devs for a good balance patch! There were many perceptive changes for RAIDS and SPvP. Probably was a lot of work.

Maybe it's not the right place for this, but obviously I'd like to give some feedback on some of the changes. Of course I'll only complain about what I didn't like.

 

**Scrapper in WvW**: The deletion of Final Salvo and superspeed fields was unasked for and murders a fun aspect of the support build.

**Chrono in WvW**: It would be nice to get a tool (utility skill) to allow support Chrono to reliably share quickness again in WvW. There's alacrity on shield but no way to share quickness on a reasonably short cooldown. Wells just don't cut it. It's impossible to consistently predict where you'll be in 3 sec unless you're a time lord in real life. Opting out Grav Well is depressing and Time Warp has a huge cooldown.

**Thief in PvP**: Lead Attacks requiring the player to be in combat is against the purpose/gameplay of thiefs in PvP altogether. It's an understandable attempt to balance out one-shot builds in WvW, but this has no place in PvP.

**Soulbeast in PvP**: Soulbeast still pops 25 might easily. You're probably already aware of it but Dolyak Stance offers ridiculous amounts of damage reduction when coupled with protection. Revert this change please! I'm certain it was more targeted towards WvW to enable some Soulbeast frontline stance support but it just won't happen while Scourge defines the meta with its ranged bombs and melee+boon hate. We need boon removal but stacking it all on one class to this extent is not optimal. Especially when it's on such a brain dead AoE bot that gets twice as strong in melee thus penalizing pushes and forcing a restrictive, passive range-meta in large scale.

[Naxos.2503]

One thing I'd like to point the dev team, that already has been pointed out by others, is that those drastic balance tweaks and gameplay changes Greatly upset player gear : And this clashes harshly with the new way runes and sigils are handled.

 

Can we Simply stop auto salvaging our runes/sigils at the very least ? This is highly becoming Very costly.

[Zunki.3916]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> Thanks for the general feedback and thoughts thus far.

>

> A quick clarification:

>

> The addition of new attribute combinations does not mean that balance updates, re-works and other changes targeting boon diversity will stop.

>

> We're **not** going to add either upgrade changes OR attributes combinations OR profession updates to offer those boon-centric playstyles as solid options.

> We're going to do **ALL** of the above.

 

One sidenote:

 

Try to make the in between process to get there not as frustrating as it might see right now. Those baby steps on ele (and maybe others) right now seem like a joke each time they arrive, even if it might bee good in the end, right now it feels rather depressing.

With the right attribute combinations some things get good, but while you know what combinations you might do and take these into mind while doing the patches right now, the community does not know anything of your greater plan and feels let down.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

So, friends, how do you make a gear-up "treadmill" without actually increasing stats? Why, you: (a) introduce new (desirable) stat combos; and (b) make significant changes to character capabilities! Job done.

[phokus.8934]

Systems team: new name, same old nonsense.

[phs.6089]

> @"Rangerdeity.5847" said:

> > @"Meriva.4173" said:

> > Wondering what kinda of boons necro's have to share :p

>

> Nekro boon is known as barrier and dead enemies

 

That is like saying mesmer boons are Mirage Cloak

> @"alchemist.6851" said:

> you just sent harrier gear prices up the roof

 

It won't ever go close to ministrel prices , so no biggie

[Shagaliscious.6281]

This seems like it's just gonna create a need for multiple classes to be running builds with some kind of boonshare in raids. So instead of just a boonshare chrono being mandatory, you will need X class for might, Y class for quickness, Z class for alacrity, etc. Not sure if this is a good or bad thing. It means group play will have to be more coordinated, but it could also mean that classes that are there to be able to do X amount of DPS also need to worry about sharing boons, which means an even more complicated rotation.

[Exalted Quality.8534]

Condi Dmg / Expertise / Concentration / Healing Power sounds fine to me.

[Jski.6180]

Just tell me this is gurd going to be the only stab boon class or not? Are you going to keep the 4 big boons on less then 1/2 of the classes in the game? Do you realy think reg protection might and the other genal boons are strong enofe on there own to make a class?

 

This seems a lot about nothing and seems to be the same thing said before about classes and nothing ever came of it.

[Jack Redline.5379]

> @"Limodriver.4106" said:

> WHAT BOON DOES thief provide? lol

 

None and we dont want to provide boons thanks

[cylin.7048]

What the hell ANET? Why do you drag these changes out over weeks instead of nerving Chrono to the ground only when you made these "alternatives" available? Not only did you effectively destroy a lot of valuable gear and the hours that went into it over and over again, you leave this fucking game in a severely broken state until then. Never have I seen devs that act like such morons

[Vlad Morbius.1759]

> @"dilo.1907" said:

> Please just remember this, arenanet : we want Guild Wars 2 not World of Warcraft !

> Understood ?

 

This 10,000 times this! If i wanted to play WoW i'd be playing WoW, so keep that as the fundamental driving the changes and i'm fine. One more thing while i'm here, stop messing with my power reaper please!

[Guildwars.4893]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> Greetings Tyrians!

>

> We are aware that the previous update to Runes and Sigils, coupled with the balance updates released this week, created a situation where boon duration has become a more highly-valued resource.

>

> As you can see in the [December 11 release notes](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62731/game-update-notes-december-11-2018#latest "December 11 release notes"), we’re moving toward a world where various professions are specialized at offering different boons and not all boons can (or should!) be provided by a single profession.

>

> Toward that end, we wanted to let you know that we’re looking at new attribute combinations for the coming year to offer you better options. You may want to watch for those updates before making significant changes to your gear.

>

> Merry Wintersday!

>

> ~GW2 Systems Team

 

be provided by a single profession. Ok it's normal but have you something to make up for that ? Because actually this changement isn"t really important during raid but Fractal yet instabilities was bad way (really fun when you are one shot sometimes by this ) now this and ! CC mesmer have been totaly destroyed by this ... just why ? you have nerf boon ok but why have you nerf cc mesmer ? .... You have done the bad choice with this update because you have just nerf totaly one class and nothing to compensate this... Weaver...trap, mesmer....trap Next ? (firebrand, necro are coming really bad TO PVE and nothing is done to change this.

 

 

PS: We have SINCE 4 MONTH I think BUG IN FRACTAL WITH INVISIBLE MOB AND SINCE 4 MONTH YOU HAVE NEVER CORRECTED IT ! Just horrible to play without see animation and position ... totaly bugged done something o_o

[Swagger.1459]

I think we all need to take a step back and breathe...

 

The support systems and designs needed improvements, so let the devs explore how to make things better. And hopefully this will be a step toward improving profession roles and combat for support oriented builds...

 

I can agree with concerns about devalued gear, that can be costly and time consuming to make or purchase, but hopefully the devs can recognize that and follow my earlier suggestion on it.

 

 

[Zin Dau.1749]

It seems they need another separation of mode, so that changes to Raid/Fractals meta don't affect other modes, including Open world PvE. So 4 modes: open world pve, instance pve (raid, fractal), pvp, wvw.

 

The nerf to Chronomancer seems premature. Why not apply their changes during the boons' big patch? Unless this some beta testing and you need to gather data from raiders.

[inaho.2046]

> @"Swagger.1459" said:

> I think we all need to take a step back and breathe...

>

> The support systems and designs needed improvements, so let the devs explore how to make things better. And hopefully this will be a step toward improving profession roles and combat for support oriented builds...

>

> I can agree with concerns about devalued gear, that can be costly and time consuming to make or purchase, but hopefully the devs can recognize that and follow my earlier suggestion on it.

>

>

 

I might agree if the new system were in place before the existing classes were gutted. So Chrono is gutted and some time in a few months they will put out an update defining it's new role and gear stats? Why did they have to break chrono now - with no clear direction? Why not lay out the direction and vision for chrono and other classes, introduce new the new stats for gear so people could start working on that - knowing what was coming and when, and then there is no angst, anger, sadness, or other drama. I think at this point telling people to step back and breathe after they have invested months of their lives into building up and learning to play chrono, rings hollow. This could have been handled far better with some advance warning - and a solution in place, rather than dropping people off a cliff. It was not that long ago they were trying to encourage more people to even play support characters - this update just casued 2 people I know to reroll mesemers they were leveling to make a support chrono into DPS's by recycling the character slot. I certianly won't be playing support again - I avoided making a druid when I tried support because as I was leveling mine they massively nerfed the healing - went power soulbeast instead. Chrono seemed stable as the whole raid and fractals meta is built around chrono and the boons they deliver, and has been for years. With concentration of no effect - I'm basically sitting in very hard to come by ascended gear, with an entire stat wasted. Ascessories I cannot stat change, and runes and sigils I have to pay gems to remove (if I want to keep them) that are also worthless. So yes when you destroy a huge investment of a persons time and treasure in building something, and offer nothing but months of waiting to see how and if a solution appears, temperatures are going to run high. This was a massive unforced error. I still hope they will quickly reverse the 12/11 changes and announce them only after they have the evolution of the chrono planned out - stats avalaible, and have made that information known to the players currently playing chrono. If they are going to make concentration irrelevant - the least they can do is give us free stat changes on all of our gear and trinkets to help ease the transition. Boon chrono was a support - key in fractals and raids, and useful in other game modes. Nerfing the chronos was a actually a nerf on the people who play along side chronos. I know this personally, have tested it in some disasterous fractal runs with known good players who mocked the "crying chrono's who needed nerfing" thinking it couldn't be that bad until they were faced with the cold reality that they are dependent on us for more than alacrity and quickness as they died over and over and failed to clear the fractal. After winterday when more go back to fractals and raids - only then will they all painfully realize just how much this was actually a nerf on everyone too. As for me - I just can't even get into winterday, even on my other classes, I just feel betrayed, and it's not a great feeling.

[rabenpriester.7129]

> @"Luckster.4076" said: I can't even imagine the irritation from those who have mained Chrono since HoT was actually released.

 

Basically everything you said, except that the fun and what made the class great to play is gone now, too. Be happy you didn't experience Chrono in its prime, because it was such an amazing gameplay style ... let's just say if the old Chrono was the original one, what we have right now is not even a phantasm of it, it's a mere clone.

 

That's what I miss, not that the class was too good or meta or desired.

[Swagger.1459]

> @"inaho.2046" said:

> > @"Swagger.1459" said:

> > I think we all need to take a step back and breathe...

> >

> > The support systems and designs needed improvements, so let the devs explore how to make things better. And hopefully this will be a step toward improving profession roles and combat for support oriented builds...

> >

> > I can agree with concerns about devalued gear, that can be costly and time consuming to make or purchase, but hopefully the devs can recognize that and follow my earlier suggestion on it.

> >

> >

>

> I might agree if the new system were in place before the existing classes were gutted. So Chrono is gutted and some time in a few months they will put out an update defining it's new role and gear stats? Why did they have to break chrono now - with no clear direction? Why not lay out the direction and vision for chrono and other classes, introduce new the new stats for gear so people could start working on that - knowing what was coming and when, and then there is no angst, anger, sadness, or other drama. I think at this point telling people to step back and breathe after they have invested months of their lives into building up and learning to play chrono, rings hollow. This could have been handled far better with some advance warning - and a solution in place, rather than dropping people off a cliff. It was not that long ago they were trying to encourage more people to even play support characters - this update just casued 2 people I know to reroll mesemers they were leveling to make a support chrono into DPS's by recycling the character slot. I certianly won't be playing support again - I avoided making a druid when I tried support because as I was leveling mine they massively nerfed the healing - went power soulbeast instead. Chrono seemed stable as the whole raid and fractals meta is built around chrono and the boons they deliver, and has been for years. With concentration of no effect - I'm basically sitting in very hard to come by ascended gear, with an entire stat wasted. Ascessories I cannot stat change, and runes and sigils I have to pay gems to remove (if I want to keep them) that are also worthless. So yes when you destroy a huge investment of a persons time and treasure in building something, and offer nothing but months of waiting to see how and if a solution appears, temperatures are going to run high. This was a massive unforced error. I still hope they will quickly reverse the 12/11 changes and announce them only after they have the evolution of the chrono planned out - stats avalaible, and have made that information known to the players currently playing chrono. If they are going to make concentration irrelevant - the least they can do is give us free stat changes on all of our gear and trinkets to help ease the transition. Boon chrono was a support - key in fractals and raids, and useful in other game modes. Nerfing the chronos was a actually a nerf on the people who play along side chronos. I know this personally, have tested it in some disasterous fractal runs with known good players who mocked the "crying chrono's who needed nerfing" thinking it couldn't be that bad until they were faced with the cold reality that they are dependent on us for more than alacrity and quickness as they died over and over and failed to clear the fractal. After winterday when more go back to fractals and raids - only then will they all painfully realize just how much this was actually a nerf on everyone too. As for me - I just can't even get into winterday, even on my other classes, I just feel betrayed, and it's not a great feeling.

 

I understand the feelings behind what you are saying, so don’t think I don’t.

 

All professions need work. Non heal and heal support designs need work. Weapons need work. Traits need work... Basically everything related to professions and combat needs a re-evaluation, a 2.0 rework if you will.

 

This game was designed to have every profession focus on doing damage primarily. HoT tried to move away from the unhealthy “zerker” meta, as a result of original design, and introduce more roles to play outside of damage... There is still a long way to go to make all things better, but things are going step by step.

[Tails.9372]

> @"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" said:

> we wanted to let you know that we’re looking at new attribute combinations for the coming year to offer you better options

 

Seeker stats for PvE **plzzzzzz**!

[Morte de Angelis.7986]

Chrono could Give all boons in the game,

Easy access to block and block a lot of mechcanics,

A lot of personal suriviability,

Tons of CC and utility,

and if you took Mistreals, also heal quite a lot.

 

The only thing the Chrono couldn't do while doing all this was DPS.

 

Chrono needed to be nerfed. It was the one-stop-shop for *everything* . The only way anything could of dethroned Chrono would of been able to do all that AND have decent DPS. That is just creating a monster to replace a monster and massive amounts of Power Creep. Firebrand was already dominating Support in WvW and would of needed even more buffs to even compete with Chrono in Raids. It was too good for its own good and for too long. People got too used to it. Its been like this ever since then introduction of raids and each nerf to Chrono only made it MORE mandatory to take.

 

Ele used to be the one and only viable DPS. Now there are many.

Druid used to be the one and only viable Healer. Now there are many.

 

Chrono (until now) the uncontested King of Support, making Firebrand and Rene a straight downgrade in comparison. Now hopefully, this will pave the way for other people to do the job that Chrono has been doing for over 3 years. Quickness and Alacrity aren't going away. You still have powerful CC. You still have tons of Utility.

 

I understand that Chrono is not a lot of fun for quite a few people right now and honestly I hope that it'll improve with future patches, much like Ele went from all time high to all time low. However Anet continued to balance and while its Prime Glory days are over it is still competitive on a lot of bosses so I also hope that they put the same effort in with Chrono. Its currently a diamond in the rough, just needs a good diamond cutter and it'll be just like new.

 

While Chrono might never reach the peak as the one-stop-shop for every boon, I should hope that Anet will continue to change Chrono so that its balanced, not oppressing and over shadowing all and any competition and that it will be fun for the people that liked Chrono to play again.

 

Here's to Anet fixing stuff :)

[rabenpriester.7129]

> @"Morte de Angelis.7986" said:

>

> While Chrono might never reach the peak as the one-stop-shop for every boon, I should hope that Anet will continue to change Chrono so that its balanced, not oppressing and over shadowing all and any competition and that it will be fun for the people that liked Chrono to play again.

 

Yeah, but what until then (if that ever happens)? Play this mess of a class? No thanks, it's not fun. See you in 3 or 4 balance patches. In the meantime, enjoy waiting an eternity for Chronos joining your parties - because there are almost none left putting up with this anymore. Or having a terrible experience playing them without a chrono. Or play them at a low skill level with an unoptimized setup.

 

 

[Morte de Angelis.7986]

> @"rabenpriester.7129" said:

> > @"Morte de Angelis.7986" said:

> >

> > While Chrono might never reach the peak as the one-stop-shop for every boon, I should hope that Anet will continue to change Chrono so that its balanced, not oppressing and over shadowing all and any competition and that it will be fun for the people that liked Chrono to play again.

>

> Yeah, but what until then? Play this mess of a class? No thanks, it's not fun. See you in 3 or 4 balance patches. In the meantime, enjoy waiting an eternity for Chronos joining your parties - because there are almost none left putting up with this anymore. Or having a terrible experience playing them. Or play them at a low skill level.

>

>

 

Do what you will, the game won't die overnight. I know I take a break sometimes when I don't feel like playing :)