Is damage too high?

[gateless gate.8406]

As someone relatively new to PVP, damage appears... insane. As does CC.

 

There are classes that can burst for 20k-30k in about three seconds. That's the potential damage output of just one player. Now add an additional four enemies, and teamfights are just clown fiestas. I'm sure experienced players can make decent sense out of what's happening in teamfights, but as a new-ish player, when 2-3 people target you at the same time, you get deleted faster than you can cast your heal skill. I repeat: **You go from 100% to 0% faster than you can activate your heal skill.** And I usually play with somewhat tanky amulet stats. It seems the only way to mitigate this are the different forms of invulnerability, which many people in this thread have confirmed.

 

When damage gets so high that you need multiple insta-cast invulnerabilities to participate, something has gone very wrong. And this doesn't even touch on the flood of CC that comes pouring out of players, rendering my character into a digital ping-pong ball.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

Voted too high, but this is in context.

 

- Damage output is too high for people that run around in tanky gear, ie, power, ferocity, and condition damage should *not* exist on gear with toughness & vitality.

- Damage output is not high enough for players running zerker gear vs tanky gear

[XECOR.2814]

I do not understand people who put damage is fine/low.

[Dreddo.9865]

Just did some matches where deadeye was killing me in less than ...one second out of stealth and Soulbeast sniping me with bow in 2 secs. What is this lol

[Dayra.7405]

Base damage is probably ok, but the amount of damage boost is out of control.

 

And this is even an exponential Function, should be a sub-linear function

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"XECOR.2814" said:

> I do not understand people who put damage is fine/low.

 

On the high end it's not uncommon for skilled players to be able to stall each other out for minutes at a time even with damage being so explosively high with skilled use of active defenses, kiting, and jumping puzzles.

[Arheundel.6451]

I hope that people who voted in favour of damage being too high , do realize that their sustain would have to be adjusted in relation to any change in applicable damage.

[BlaqueFyre.5678]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> I hope that people who voted in favour of damage being too high , do realize that their sustain would have to be adjusted in relation to any change in applicable damage.

 

No, they don’t think that far ahead and they will complain if it gets adjusted down.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> I hope that people who voted in favour of damage being too high , do realize that their sustain would have to be adjusted in relation to any change in applicable damage.

 

I've always been curious what GW2 would look like without dedicated heal skills, with all healing coming from weapon skills, class mechanics, traits, utility and elite skills with health bars adjusted to match.

[Aza.2105]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > I hope that people who voted in favour of damage being too high , do realize that their sustain would have to be adjusted in relation to any change in applicable damage.

>

> I've always been curious what GW2 would look like without dedicated heal skills, with all healing coming from weapon skills, class mechanics, traits, utility and elite skills with health bars adjusted to match.

 

Oh you mean like black desert online? Then it would be worse.

[Dreddo.9865]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> I hope that people who voted in favour of damage being too high , do realize that their sustain would have to be adjusted in relation to any change in applicable damage.

What is the ...sustain of necro class when dying in milliseconds against deadeye, that can be 'adjusted'? I am sorry but this mode is always taking steps in the wrong direction when class balance come into play and something must be done before the mode goes totally dead (is almost dead atm).

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Aza.2105" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > I hope that people who voted in favour of damage being too high , do realize that their sustain would have to be adjusted in relation to any change in applicable damage.

> >

> > I've always been curious what GW2 would look like without dedicated heal skills, with all healing coming from weapon skills, class mechanics, traits, utility and elite skills with health bars adjusted to match.

>

> Oh you mean like black desert online? Then it would be worse.

 

Like a normal RPG where some classes are balanced around having access to self healing and / or party healing and some aren't.

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Boonspams silly, ridiculous in some cases. Reduce this and alot of the cancer issues will be nullified to a degree as well.

[Arheundel.6451]

> @"dceptaconroy.7928" said:

> Boonspams silly, ridiculous in some cases. Reduce this and alot of the cancer issues will be nullified to a degree as well.

 

Boonspam in intervals should be considered a valid tactic given the nature of the game and the way balance has evolved up to this point, we are far beyond the point of no return for that but...we're still in time to deal with overtop boonspam which is basically without interruptions and proper counterplay ( boonbeast and holosmith to a certain degree ). Boonspam in a vacuum could be considered silly but you forget to mention things like rapid condi application and boonstrip

 

[TwiceDead.1963]

Damage is too high yes, but so is the goddamn sustain. You need to rein both of these back in. If you lower the damage but keep the current sustain, PvP will be a fight between two Sloths waiting for the other to fall asleep first.

[Math.5123]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"Apolo.5942" said:

> > > > Been saying it is too high and that combat needs to slow way down, for quite a while now.

> > > >

> > > > People are too simple minded to realice that lower damage does not need to equate to 2 hours fights, but right know range, condi and mobility is king has been for a long while.

> > > >

> > > > This damage swing came about after "pros" whined that 2 bunker builds could not kill each other. Of course none of them play the game any longer and we got to deal with this mess.

> > >

> > > Condi is king? Aside from Mirage and Scourge nothing are rocking condition damage. And Reaper is at the very least just as popular of a build for ranked as Scourge if not moderately more popular than Scourge. The reality is condition cleanses and conversion into boons are both extremely over tuned at this point. Most classes can quickly throw off 3-7+ conditions repeatedly over the course of a single fight, or have strong resistance uptime. Scourge and Mirage are the only condition classes capable of keeping up not because their condition damage is high (It's not. Scourge and Mirage are actually some of the lowest condition damage available) but because they have a wide range of conditions (Or in Scourge's case a wide range of conditions and boon corruption) that gives their conditions a chance to dodge condition cleanses entirely.

> > >

> > > Condition damage has completely fallen behind Power Damage in the scheme of things. To put this into perspective; Condition Berserker, Condition Firebrand, Condition Weaver, and Condition Holosmith have the higher condition pressure. Far, far beyond what Condition Mirage and Scourge are capable of. But even putting aside other weaknesses in those builds, the single biggest weakness that prevents them from ever becoming meta is the fact that when every class can effortlessly throw off 5+ conditions multiple times a fight, the bulk of their damage being tied down into one or two conditions means their effective damage output is zero.

> > >

> > > Arenanet really needs to look at both normalizing the spread of conditions, balancing all classes around 2-3 damaging conditions with more serious ramping power. And also heavily pulling back condition cleanses to compensate for it. Cleanses are the condition damage equivalent to protection. It's supposed to help you negate damage, but at this point unless you're a build that can shotgun 6 conditions at once your effective damage output as condi is 0.

> > >

> > > Anet should nerf condition cleanses by 50%+ across the board then trim Mirage's condition spread and condense it into fewer conditions. Right now power damage is absolutely over tuned compared to condition damage 7/9 classes are exclusively running power on a meta level. Mirage is mostly exclusively condi and Necro run a 50/50 split of condi and power.

> > >

> > > Your signature suggestions are terrible.

> >

> > In another post I mentioned the fact that condition clears was far too prevalent somewhere and it chokeholds condition builds, but the biggest issue, is that in order for conditions to succeed, it needs to burst people down instantly.

> >

> > The classes that spread conditions need loads of sustain to keep themselves alive, because if condis don't burst and slowly trickle, then you need enough sustain to watch people die, and you cannot have as many condi cleanses, because you wont be able to kill anyone.Maybe condi cleanses should be limited based on the class such as necros eles and revs being anti condi classes.

> >

> > In wow, lets take for instance shadow priests:Shadow priests which are big on dots, and do mass spreadable dot that goes from person to person, has relatively decent damage.It doesn't instantly burst people down, but they used to have ways to escape. They also are insta cast. I almost feel like some of the condis need to be either insta cast to be effective, or you need a whole lot of mobility combined to keep you alive, or a truckload of sustain and invulns to keep you alive a really long time.

> >

> > I also don't think every class should have tons of mobility either. Someone said that every class has so much evades mobility, and there certainly right to a certain extent. Not just thieves are ultra mobile, but mesmers, holosmiths as well are ultra mobile. Maybe something needs to be created that counters mobile, or have a anti mobility spec that's really super strong versus mobile specs to counter all these super mobile specs.

> >

> >

>

> All good points. I really want to see all the condition cleanses and conversions straight up reduced by 50%-75%. I genuinely think that's needed. Mesmers should have their cover conditions trimmed and their damaging conditions condensed into fewer conditions, mostly torment and confusion for thematic reasons with maybe a bit of burning with the torch skills. I think the reason you've seen tons of power creep when it comes to conditions cleanses is because Anet is a bit too focused on the only two meta builds keeping up and is power creeping cleanses in an arm race.

>

> But like let's say a Burn Firebrand vs. a Core Guardian. The Firebrand has a lot of self sustain just like the core guardian, it has easy application of it's condition skills. But that burn Firebrand will never be able to hurt the Core Guardian. How could it? The Firebrand has almost entirely burning and a little bit of bleed. And that's somehow supposed to punch through this:

>

> 2x Condition Cleanse on Heal with Lesser Smite Condition

> 2x Condition Cleanse on Virtue of Resolve

> 2x Condition Cleanse on Smite Condition.

> 12x Condition Conversion on Contemplation of Purity

> Condition Immunity during Renewed Focus

> 2x condition Cleanse on Virtue of Resolve

>

> Now I'm not saying that Core Guardian is OP. It's not and it fits into the meta moderately well, but it's condition cleanses are so over the top for anything not a Scourge or a Mirage and against Mirage at least it can survive for a while.

>

> Or warriors who have:

> Healing Signet 6 seconds resistance

> 12x Condition Cleanse with Signet of Stamina

> 6x Condition Cleanse x 2 with Shake it Off

> Maybe running Berserker Stance still 4 seconds resistance

>

> Unless you're a Mirage or Scourge you aren't going to be able to punch through that with condition damage. Period.

 

I mean. As a guardian, you're taking two traitlines, two utilities and an elite to get that condition clear.

This is the equivalent of mesmers running inspiration with null field and arcane thievery. Any class that specs for Condi clears will have a lot of Condi clear.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > @"Apolo.5942" said:

> > > > > Been saying it is too high and that combat needs to slow way down, for quite a while now.

> > > > >

> > > > > People are too simple minded to realice that lower damage does not need to equate to 2 hours fights, but right know range, condi and mobility is king has been for a long while.

> > > > >

> > > > > This damage swing came about after "pros" whined that 2 bunker builds could not kill each other. Of course none of them play the game any longer and we got to deal with this mess.

> > > >

> > > > Condi is king? Aside from Mirage and Scourge nothing are rocking condition damage. And Reaper is at the very least just as popular of a build for ranked as Scourge if not moderately more popular than Scourge. The reality is condition cleanses and conversion into boons are both extremely over tuned at this point. Most classes can quickly throw off 3-7+ conditions repeatedly over the course of a single fight, or have strong resistance uptime. Scourge and Mirage are the only condition classes capable of keeping up not because their condition damage is high (It's not. Scourge and Mirage are actually some of the lowest condition damage available) but because they have a wide range of conditions (Or in Scourge's case a wide range of conditions and boon corruption) that gives their conditions a chance to dodge condition cleanses entirely.

> > > >

> > > > Condition damage has completely fallen behind Power Damage in the scheme of things. To put this into perspective; Condition Berserker, Condition Firebrand, Condition Weaver, and Condition Holosmith have the higher condition pressure. Far, far beyond what Condition Mirage and Scourge are capable of. But even putting aside other weaknesses in those builds, the single biggest weakness that prevents them from ever becoming meta is the fact that when every class can effortlessly throw off 5+ conditions multiple times a fight, the bulk of their damage being tied down into one or two conditions means their effective damage output is zero.

> > > >

> > > > Arenanet really needs to look at both normalizing the spread of conditions, balancing all classes around 2-3 damaging conditions with more serious ramping power. And also heavily pulling back condition cleanses to compensate for it. Cleanses are the condition damage equivalent to protection. It's supposed to help you negate damage, but at this point unless you're a build that can shotgun 6 conditions at once your effective damage output as condi is 0.

> > > >

> > > > Anet should nerf condition cleanses by 50%+ across the board then trim Mirage's condition spread and condense it into fewer conditions. Right now power damage is absolutely over tuned compared to condition damage 7/9 classes are exclusively running power on a meta level. Mirage is mostly exclusively condi and Necro run a 50/50 split of condi and power.

> > > >

> > > > Your signature suggestions are terrible.

> > >

> > > In another post I mentioned the fact that condition clears was far too prevalent somewhere and it chokeholds condition builds, but the biggest issue, is that in order for conditions to succeed, it needs to burst people down instantly.

> > >

> > > The classes that spread conditions need loads of sustain to keep themselves alive, because if condis don't burst and slowly trickle, then you need enough sustain to watch people die, and you cannot have as many condi cleanses, because you wont be able to kill anyone.Maybe condi cleanses should be limited based on the class such as necros eles and revs being anti condi classes.

> > >

> > > In wow, lets take for instance shadow priests:Shadow priests which are big on dots, and do mass spreadable dot that goes from person to person, has relatively decent damage.It doesn't instantly burst people down, but they used to have ways to escape. They also are insta cast. I almost feel like some of the condis need to be either insta cast to be effective, or you need a whole lot of mobility combined to keep you alive, or a truckload of sustain and invulns to keep you alive a really long time.

> > >

> > > I also don't think every class should have tons of mobility either. Someone said that every class has so much evades mobility, and there certainly right to a certain extent. Not just thieves are ultra mobile, but mesmers, holosmiths as well are ultra mobile. Maybe something needs to be created that counters mobile, or have a anti mobility spec that's really super strong versus mobile specs to counter all these super mobile specs.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > All good points. I really want to see all the condition cleanses and conversions straight up reduced by 50%-75%. I genuinely think that's needed. Mesmers should have their cover conditions trimmed and their damaging conditions condensed into fewer conditions, mostly torment and confusion for thematic reasons with maybe a bit of burning with the torch skills. I think the reason you've seen tons of power creep when it comes to conditions cleanses is because Anet is a bit too focused on the only two meta builds keeping up and is power creeping cleanses in an arm race.

> >

> > But like let's say a Burn Firebrand vs. a Core Guardian. The Firebrand has a lot of self sustain just like the core guardian, it has easy application of it's condition skills. But that burn Firebrand will never be able to hurt the Core Guardian. How could it? The Firebrand has almost entirely burning and a little bit of bleed. And that's somehow supposed to punch through this:

> >

> > 2x Condition Cleanse on Heal with Lesser Smite Condition

> > 2x Condition Cleanse on Virtue of Resolve

> > 2x Condition Cleanse on Smite Condition.

> > 12x Condition Conversion on Contemplation of Purity

> > Condition Immunity during Renewed Focus

> > 2x condition Cleanse on Virtue of Resolve

> >

> > Now I'm not saying that Core Guardian is OP. It's not and it fits into the meta moderately well, but it's condition cleanses are so over the top for anything not a Scourge or a Mirage and against Mirage at least it can survive for a while.

> >

> > Or warriors who have:

> > Healing Signet 6 seconds resistance

> > 12x Condition Cleanse with Signet of Stamina

> > 6x Condition Cleanse x 2 with Shake it Off

> > Maybe running Berserker Stance still 4 seconds resistance

> >

> > Unless you're a Mirage or Scourge you aren't going to be able to punch through that with condition damage. Period.

>

> I mean. As a guardian, you're taking two traitlines, two utilities and an elite to get that condition clear.

> This is the equivalent of mesmers running inspiration with null field and arcane thievery. Any class that specs for Condi clears will have a lot of Condi clear.

 

While guardian is the stand out, pretty much every class except Revanant have so much condition removal as to be functionally immune to literally every condition damage build not named Mirage and Scourge. Thieves less so but they've always had the evades to make tagging them in general enough of a job in the hands of a skilled one.

 

Even with tons of condition removal, no class should be functionally immune to condition damage the way no one is functionally immune to power damage. Condition damage output should be rebalanced around 2 primary damaging conditions, with and occasional 3rd condition for high cooldown damage ramping (I'd let necromancers still have their corruption thing for flavor reasons) and condition cleanses should be trimmed across the board by 50-75% to rebalance this. Cleanses should be like any active defense, smart use should save you but poor use leave you vulnerable to much of your enemy's damage.

 

The meta game vs. a condi spec should be picking the perfect time to wipe conditions interrupting a ramp up, rather than everyone literally being able to shrug everything off for upwards a minute at a time while face taking incoming attacks.

 

Again, the level of condition cleanses makes condition builds across the entire following classes; Warrior, Guardian, Revananent, Ranger, Engineer, Thief (At least I haven't seen a condi thief in platinum since the last time they were nerfed, though design wise they struggle less than other builds), Elementalist, completely nonplayable with condition variants. Like you might as well queue into a match with no weapons levels of nonplayable.

[Axl.8924]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"Axl.8924" said:

> > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > @"Apolo.5942" said:

> > > > > > Been saying it is too high and that combat needs to slow way down, for quite a while now.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > People are too simple minded to realice that lower damage does not need to equate to 2 hours fights, but right know range, condi and mobility is king has been for a long while.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > This damage swing came about after "pros" whined that 2 bunker builds could not kill each other. Of course none of them play the game any longer and we got to deal with this mess.

> > > > >

> > > > > Condi is king? Aside from Mirage and Scourge nothing are rocking condition damage. And Reaper is at the very least just as popular of a build for ranked as Scourge if not moderately more popular than Scourge. The reality is condition cleanses and conversion into boons are both extremely over tuned at this point. Most classes can quickly throw off 3-7+ conditions repeatedly over the course of a single fight, or have strong resistance uptime. Scourge and Mirage are the only condition classes capable of keeping up not because their condition damage is high (It's not. Scourge and Mirage are actually some of the lowest condition damage available) but because they have a wide range of conditions (Or in Scourge's case a wide range of conditions and boon corruption) that gives their conditions a chance to dodge condition cleanses entirely.

> > > > >

> > > > > Condition damage has completely fallen behind Power Damage in the scheme of things. To put this into perspective; Condition Berserker, Condition Firebrand, Condition Weaver, and Condition Holosmith have the higher condition pressure. Far, far beyond what Condition Mirage and Scourge are capable of. But even putting aside other weaknesses in those builds, the single biggest weakness that prevents them from ever becoming meta is the fact that when every class can effortlessly throw off 5+ conditions multiple times a fight, the bulk of their damage being tied down into one or two conditions means their effective damage output is zero.

> > > > >

> > > > > Arenanet really needs to look at both normalizing the spread of conditions, balancing all classes around 2-3 damaging conditions with more serious ramping power. And also heavily pulling back condition cleanses to compensate for it. Cleanses are the condition damage equivalent to protection. It's supposed to help you negate damage, but at this point unless you're a build that can shotgun 6 conditions at once your effective damage output as condi is 0.

> > > > >

> > > > > Anet should nerf condition cleanses by 50%+ across the board then trim Mirage's condition spread and condense it into fewer conditions. Right now power damage is absolutely over tuned compared to condition damage 7/9 classes are exclusively running power on a meta level. Mirage is mostly exclusively condi and Necro run a 50/50 split of condi and power.

> > > > >

> > > > > Your signature suggestions are terrible.

> > > >

> > > > In another post I mentioned the fact that condition clears was far too prevalent somewhere and it chokeholds condition builds, but the biggest issue, is that in order for conditions to succeed, it needs to burst people down instantly.

> > > >

> > > > The classes that spread conditions need loads of sustain to keep themselves alive, because if condis don't burst and slowly trickle, then you need enough sustain to watch people die, and you cannot have as many condi cleanses, because you wont be able to kill anyone.Maybe condi cleanses should be limited based on the class such as necros eles and revs being anti condi classes.

> > > >

> > > > In wow, lets take for instance shadow priests:Shadow priests which are big on dots, and do mass spreadable dot that goes from person to person, has relatively decent damage.It doesn't instantly burst people down, but they used to have ways to escape. They also are insta cast. I almost feel like some of the condis need to be either insta cast to be effective, or you need a whole lot of mobility combined to keep you alive, or a truckload of sustain and invulns to keep you alive a really long time.

> > > >

> > > > I also don't think every class should have tons of mobility either. Someone said that every class has so much evades mobility, and there certainly right to a certain extent. Not just thieves are ultra mobile, but mesmers, holosmiths as well are ultra mobile. Maybe something needs to be created that counters mobile, or have a anti mobility spec that's really super strong versus mobile specs to counter all these super mobile specs.

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > All good points. I really want to see all the condition cleanses and conversions straight up reduced by 50%-75%. I genuinely think that's needed. Mesmers should have their cover conditions trimmed and their damaging conditions condensed into fewer conditions, mostly torment and confusion for thematic reasons with maybe a bit of burning with the torch skills. I think the reason you've seen tons of power creep when it comes to conditions cleanses is because Anet is a bit too focused on the only two meta builds keeping up and is power creeping cleanses in an arm race.

> > >

> > > But like let's say a Burn Firebrand vs. a Core Guardian. The Firebrand has a lot of self sustain just like the core guardian, it has easy application of it's condition skills. But that burn Firebrand will never be able to hurt the Core Guardian. How could it? The Firebrand has almost entirely burning and a little bit of bleed. And that's somehow supposed to punch through this:

> > >

> > > 2x Condition Cleanse on Heal with Lesser Smite Condition

> > > 2x Condition Cleanse on Virtue of Resolve

> > > 2x Condition Cleanse on Smite Condition.

> > > 12x Condition Conversion on Contemplation of Purity

> > > Condition Immunity during Renewed Focus

> > > 2x condition Cleanse on Virtue of Resolve

> > >

> > > Now I'm not saying that Core Guardian is OP. It's not and it fits into the meta moderately well, but it's condition cleanses are so over the top for anything not a Scourge or a Mirage and against Mirage at least it can survive for a while.

> > >

> > > Or warriors who have:

> > > Healing Signet 6 seconds resistance

> > > 12x Condition Cleanse with Signet of Stamina

> > > 6x Condition Cleanse x 2 with Shake it Off

> > > Maybe running Berserker Stance still 4 seconds resistance

> > >

> > > Unless you're a Mirage or Scourge you aren't going to be able to punch through that with condition damage. Period.

> >

> > I mean. As a guardian, you're taking two traitlines, two utilities and an elite to get that condition clear.

> > This is the equivalent of mesmers running inspiration with null field and arcane thievery. Any class that specs for Condi clears will have a lot of Condi clear.

>

> While guardian is the stand out, pretty much every class except Revanant have so much condition removal as to be functionally immune to literally every condition damage build not named Mirage and Scourge.

>

> Even with tons of condition removal, no class should be functionally immune to condition damage the way no one is functionally immune to power damage. Condition damage output should be rebalanced around 2 primary damaging conditions, with and occasional 3rd condition for high cooldown damage ramping (I'd let necromancers still have their corruption thing for flavor reasons) and condition cleanses should be trimmed across the board by 50-75% to rebalance this. Cleanses should be like any active defense, smart use should save you but poor use leave you vulnerable to much of your enemy's damage.

>

> The meta game vs. a condi spec should be picking the perfect time to wipe conditions interrupting a ramp up, rather than everyone literally being able to shrug everything off for upwards a minute at a time while face taking incoming attacks.

>

> Again, the level of condition cleanses makes condition builds across the entire following classes; Warrior, Guardian, Revananent, Ranger, Engineer, Thief (At least I haven't seen a condi thief in platinum since the last time they were nerfed, though design wise they struggle less than other builds), Elementalist, completely nonplayable. Like you might as well queue into a match with no weapons levels of nonplayable.

 

They shouldn't increase condis though, as having low stacks of condi and smaller amounts of cleanse means it would be balanced.

 

I agree with you though on that, plus on top of that resist is super strong anti condi and created to combat condi and made real strong on specific classes.

 

[Axl.8924]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"dceptaconroy.7928" said:

> > Boonspams silly, ridiculous in some cases. Reduce this and alot of the cancer issues will be nullified to a degree as well.

>

> Boonspam in intervals should be considered a valid tactic given the nature of the game and the way balance has evolved up to this point, we are far beyond the point of no return for that but...we're still in time to deal with overtop boonspam which is basically without interruptions and proper counterplay ( boonbeast and holosmith to a certain degree ). Boonspam in a vacuum could be considered silly but you forget to mention things like rapid condi application and boonstrip

 

I disagree, too much boonspam is bad for the game in pvp. Some boons? yes but having multiple stacks of things on at the same time is pure insanity. Being able to put 25 stacks of might ferocity retatialtion protection resist etc is just too much vs classes which don't have nearly that much boons they can, because you cant really compete unless you have some way to spam boons on yourself to deal as much damage and protect yourself.

 

Also some classes its pure insanity how much protection might stability etc they can spam, just far too much. I know cc is a problem, and the amount of cc flying around also needs to be cut down so its more strategic than just spamming cc non stop. while damaging.

 

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Axl.8924" said:

> > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > @"dceptaconroy.7928" said:

> > > Boonspams silly, ridiculous in some cases. Reduce this and alot of the cancer issues will be nullified to a degree as well.

> >

> > Boonspam in intervals should be considered a valid tactic given the nature of the game and the way balance has evolved up to this point, we are far beyond the point of no return for that but...we're still in time to deal with overtop boonspam which is basically without interruptions and proper counterplay ( boonbeast and holosmith to a certain degree ). Boonspam in a vacuum could be considered silly but you forget to mention things like rapid condi application and boonstrip

>

> I disagree, too much boonspam is bad for the game in pvp. Some boons? yes but having multiple stacks of things on at the same time is pure insanity. Being able to put 25 stacks of might ferocity retatialtion protection resist etc is just too much vs classes which don't have nearly that much boons they can, because you cant really compete unless you have some way to spam boons on yourself to deal as much damage and protect yourself.

>

> Also some classes its pure insanity how much protection might stability etc they can spam, just far too much. I know cc is a problem, and the amount of cc flying around also needs to be cut down so its more strategic than just spamming cc non stop. while damaging.

>

 

I think stuff like Spellbreaker should hard counter anything boonspammy. Like the thesis statement of spellbreak is that it is supposed to punish boons. Dagger, break Enchantments, Winds of Disenchantment and traits like Loss Aversion should terrify things like Boonbeast, Elixir Holos, and Chaos Mirages and that style of Spellbreaker should be thriving in this meta as an antimeta counter and instead Spellbreaker is starting to fall behind and its best build isn't even running stuff designed against this exact meta.

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"gateless gate.8406" said:

> As someone relatively new to PVP, damage appears... insane. As does CC.

>

> There are classes that can burst for 20k-30k in about three seconds. That's the potential damage output of just one player. Now add an additional four enemies, and teamfights are just clown fiestas. I'm sure experienced players can make decent sense out of what's happening in teamfights, but as a new-ish player, when 2-3 people target you at the same time, you get deleted faster than you can cast your heal skill. I repeat: **You go from 100% to 0% faster than you can activate your heal skill.** And I usually play with somewhat tanky amulet stats. It seems the only way to mitigate this are the different forms of invulnerability, which many people in this thread have confirmed.

>

> When damage gets so high that you need multiple insta-cast invulnerabilities to participate, something has gone very wrong. And this doesn't even touch on the flood of CC that comes pouring out of players, rendering my character into a digital ping-pong ball.

 

Very well said! Gateless

[dceptaconroy.7928]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"dceptaconroy.7928" said:

> > Boonspams silly, ridiculous in some cases. Reduce this and alot of the cancer issues will be nullified to a degree as well.

>

> Boonspam in intervals should be considered a valid tactic given the nature of the game and the way balance has evolved up to this point, we are far beyond the point of no return for that but...we're still in time to deal with overtop boonspam which is basically without interruptions and proper counterplay ( boonbeast and holosmith to a certain degree ). Boonspam in a vacuum could be considered silly but you forget to mention things like rapid condi application and boonstrip

>

 

I get ya. Some classes also cleanse condis as fast as they're applied then reapply boons and laugh it off with plenty of sustain or vanish. Dont stand in red circles hide behind a rock for 10 seconds like me a power reaper with stuff all life force and even less defense. It's all a bit of a mess really. Why cant everyone be mediocre like me...lol.

[apharma.3741]

206 votes, that's a lot more than I'd hoped. I wonder what the patch on the 8th Jan will bring, balance changes or just LW?

[ParanoidKami.2867]

Damage is too high. Bunkers are using a ton of defensive skills and become a problem. Just lower their defensive skills.

[rng.1024]

Damage output is fine, I thoroughfully enjoy having to rely on active defenses for the most part, although some outliers would benefit from being reigned in. A good way to do that without cutting numbers, would be to make trait tiers competitive. Meaning in order to reach the highest numbers you'd need to sacrifice something substantial in terms of convenience. It makes no sense for 1 skill to do more than 10k damage, so wouldn't mind a soft cap of sorts around there. Giving some weapon traits decreased cooldown for slightly less damage but more utility would also go a long way.