Full counter has been nerfed by -83% damage total. That is over kill.

[Hitman.5829]

I appreciate the effort to explain things to steki.1478, but please lets not clog the post with simple explanations. We are not here to explain 1 + 1 = 2.

If he does not see it, it is his problem and we are not here to babysit and spend a full quarter explaining:

* D/t = rate of change of damage with respect to time

* 2:3 ratios

I appreciate all of those who do really take this post seriously.

 

[normans.8963]

me i just dont wanna lose 90 % of my hp bar in 1 attack. The scholar rune + getting a buff from a warhorn switch for a 2 hand weapon and just using all cd and 1 one shotting someone is not something that should happen in pvp . The only reason i could accept to get 1 shotted is if someone cast for 5 sec and i dont notice him or am cc and i get 1 shotted. When someone use all is cd+ warhorn also the fact warhorn make you immune to cc while giving a damage buff as soulbeast is an atrocity. So your saying that he ,while using this will be able to run away and also if i get close to him he will do an insane amount of damage to me (90 % of my hp bar)

 

Congrats you press all your button correctly and you one shot me. Too bad you didt react to what i was doing and outplayed me butYou won the guitar hero game

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"kiranslee.4829" said:

> I agree on on 83% , but you named it wrong , it is Little Daze, not Full Counter.

 

Lil'Counter.

[Belishine.7493]

i haves a good question in this. ok i started to play war dagger dagger recently becouse i needed something new. i do play lots of wvw with my war at the moment mainly with daggers. for the most part i see that with the fc i bring most players between 50% and 25% hp is this right for the damage of fc right now or am i just geting lucky with the counters? i have also noticed i can one shot like 10 players when they down stat with one fc also is this normal with the new changes?

[Belishine.7493]

so my experiance is not normal then i wonder if that is becouse im run in full zerker gear the? now ill say this it is saying my full counter is only doing like 386 in blue righting when i look at so i wonder if im not geting the new changes?

[Loboling.5293]

> @"Miko.4158" said:

> yes, with the nerf to wod, It looks like new elites are on the way.

> buy or die

 

Oh shit does that mean they are going to nerf renegade into uselessness... Oh wait.

[RedShark.9548]

> @"Belishine.7493" said:

> i haves a good question in this. ok i started to play war dagger dagger recently becouse i needed something new. i do play lots of wvw with my war at the moment mainly with daggers. for the most part i see that with the fc i bring most players between 50% and 25% hp is this right for the damage of fc right now or am i just geting lucky with the counters? i have also noticed i can one shot like 10 players when they down stat with one fc also is this normal with the new changes?

 

Are you on drugs? Fc in pvp does like 1,5k and in wvw its like max 3k on full zerker gear

[supFrag.1536]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"Belishine.7493" said:

> > i haves a good question in this. ok i started to play war dagger dagger recently becouse i needed something new. i do play lots of wvw with my war at the moment mainly with daggers. for the most part i see that with the fc i bring most players between 50% and 25% hp is this right for the damage of fc right now or am i just geting lucky with the counters? i have also noticed i can one shot like 10 players when they down stat with one fc also is this normal with the new changes?

>

> Are you on drugs? Fc in pvp does like 1,5k and in wvw its like max 3k on full zerker gear

 

3k on a full zerk ele sure, vs all the other classes the higher ive seen is 1.2k to 2k at most.

[RedShark.9548]

> @"supFrag.1536" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > @"Belishine.7493" said:

> > > i haves a good question in this. ok i started to play war dagger dagger recently becouse i needed something new. i do play lots of wvw with my war at the moment mainly with daggers. for the most part i see that with the fc i bring most players between 50% and 25% hp is this right for the damage of fc right now or am i just geting lucky with the counters? i have also noticed i can one shot like 10 players when they down stat with one fc also is this normal with the new changes?

> >

> > Are you on drugs? Fc in pvp does like 1,5k and in wvw its like max 3k on full zerker gear

>

> 3k on a full zerk ele sure, vs all the other classes the higher ive seen is 1.2k to 2k at most.

 

thats why i said "MAX" 3k...which is already sad anyways.

 

Belishine.7493 claims that he does 50-75% of enemies health just with fullcounter is ridiculous, that was my point btw. we all know that fc dmg is one of the lowest nowadays, but his claim....???

[otto.5684]

> @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

 

With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

[RedShark.9548]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

>

> With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

 

it is a COUNTER. it has to be punishing, if someone hits into it.

right now it doesnt even kill off mesmer clones lol.

the cc is a joke with all the stab flying around.

the copied condis wont do kitten, because their dmg is based on the warriors condition dmg and not the enemies, who applied them in the first place and is specced for them to hurt. it would be good if it would transfer them, but its just a copy.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

> >

> > With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

>

> it is a COUNTER. it has to be punishing, if someone hits into it.

> right now it doesnt even kill off mesmer clones lol.

> the cc is a joke with all the stab flying around.

> the copied condis wont do kitten, because their dmg is based on the warriors condition dmg and not the enemies, who applied them in the first place and is specced for them to hurt. it would be good if it would transfer them, but its just a copy.

 

Personally I would like to see the trait that copies conditions reworked, because copying conditions is usually. Literally puts like 40 damage per second burn stacks on the enemy LOL.

 

Full Counter does hardly anything, actually.

[Hitman.5829]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

>

> With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

 

if its not supposed to do much else then why reduce 3 bars of adrenaline and make busts do minimum damage?

Going from core warrior to Spellbreaker we have lost lost benefits in:

* Berserker's Power

* Cleansing Ire

* Adrenal Health

 

And now, we lost even more with 83% nerf to FC.

[otto.5684]

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

> >

> > With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

>

> if its not supposed to do much else then why reduce 3 bars of adrenaline and make busts do minimum damage?

> Going from core warrior to Spellbreaker we have lost lost benefits in:

> * Berserker's Power

> * Cleansing Ire

> * Adrenal Health

>

> And now, we lost even more with 83% nerf to FC.

 

And gained the ability to hit burst abilities back to back, and FC resets burst abilities. And for all purposes, SB burst works so much better with adernal health compared to core warrior. It takes longer to get to three stacks, but considering that burst attacks are much more frequent, it is much easier to maintain with much less counter-play.

 

SB is so much better in PvP than core warrior and berserker by mile, even if FC does not deal any damage whatsoever. Trying to sell SB as a crippled elite hanging by FC damage is either absolute ignorance or hypocrisy.

 

Also, every single elite build was nerfed last patch (except Soul Beast). SB was not singled out by any means, and remains meta.

[enkidu.5937]

Lull Counter . . . but the animation is still very impressing xD

[Jugglemonkey.8741]

I'm a thief main, and seeing this nerf took a lot of the fun out of fighting good spellbreakers as now they basically can't punish me for being too aggressive, core does a much better job. Kinda sucks, visually spellbreaker and berserker look fantastic, they just have no teeth now.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

>

> With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

 

its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

> @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

> >

> > With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

>

> its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off.

 

As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage.

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:

> > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

> > >

> > > With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

> >

> > its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off.

>

> As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage.

 

Anet wanted it to be a skill used for defensive purpose only,they should have just give use some damage back in return on weap sets,since i dont really mind counter doing less damage,but were not being compensated in return.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:

> > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > > > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

> > > >

> > > > With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

> > >

> > > its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off.

> >

> > As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage.

>

> Anet wanted it to be a skill used for defensive purpose only

 

that is a hell of a statement, got anything to back that up?

[otto.5684]

> @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:

> > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > > > > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

> > > > >

> > > > > With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

> > > >

> > > > its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off.

> > >

> > > As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage.

> >

> > Anet wanted it to be a skill used for defensive purpose only

>

> that is a hell of a statement, got anything to back that up?

 

Anet patch notes: “FC has different uses in competitive game modes compared to PvE.” They did not say it out right here, but they nerfed it’s damage by 75%. It is crystal clear that they are eluding to FC to be a dps skill in PvE and block/CC in PvP.

[gimo.3281]

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > @"zionophir.6845" said:

> > that means get the 75% of FC damage in PvE and subtract 50% of FC damage in PvE.

> I know that not everyone has the gift of math and I am not judging, so for clarification going from 75% to 25% is not 75% - 25% = 50%

> Let X be the PvE damage, then 75% of PvE is:

> * (X)(0.75)

> And 25% of PvE is:

> * (X)(0.25)

>

> Therefore, the damage lost going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is:

> * [(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%

> * = -66.66%

>

> So, going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is not 50%, it is 66.66%

>

> > check the history of FC if it was split game mode wise [PvE ~ PvP/WvW]. then go from there to get the numbers.

>

> mmmm did you read my previous posts? I posted them with exact nerf damage

> The calculated TOTAL damage nerfed FC since launch is -83%

>

> [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66) - 1] * 100% = - 83%

>

> * October 17 (Reduce damage by 12.5% in PvP and WvW only.)

> * November 7 (Increased recharge from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW only.) This is equivalent to a 33% damage reduction (8/12 -1)*100% = 33%

> * March 27 (Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.)

> * December 11 (reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE.) (-66.66% damage nerf)

>

> And just to add as a curiosity note: Do you know by how much damage they will have to buff FC to bring it back to its original version?

> By 497% YES THAT IS CORRECT!

> Percentages are not something to be mess with! That is why when you lose money in the stock market, it is very difficult to earn back what you lost.

> How did I calculate 497% here is the equation:

> let X be the percent damage increase to bring FC back to normal, then:

> [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66)(1 + X) - 1] * 100% =0%

>

> Solving for X gives 4.97 which is 497%

 

lel. don't justify your bork bork math. how many is lost when you go from .75 to .25? even a gradeschooler knows that.

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

> @"otto.5684" said:

> > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:

> > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > > > > > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

> > > > > >

> > > > > > With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

> > > > >

> > > > > its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off.

> > > >

> > > > As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage.

> > >

> > > Anet wanted it to be a skill used for defensive purpose only

> >

> > that is a hell of a statement, got anything to back that up?

>

> Anet patch notes: “FC has different uses in competitive game modes compared to PvE.” They did not say it out right here, but they nerfed it’s damage by 75%. It is crystal clear that they are eluding to FC to be a dps skill in PvE and block/CC in PvP.

 

If it were a defensive skill they'd have upped the evade, the length of time the counter attack is waiting. Or something along those lines, not lengthening the CC. Lengthening the CC is an offensive thing. What they think the skill is in competitive modes is something to stop your enemy and start a counteroffensive, but the problem is that with the amount of stability and stun breaks the CC is meaningless. So the short CC to disrupt the enemy with damage was the better answer because of the meta we're currently in, and the CC will probably end up doing nothing.

[Hitman.5829]

> @"gimo.3281" said:

> > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > > @"zionophir.6845" said:

> > > that means get the 75% of FC damage in PvE and subtract 50% of FC damage in PvE.

> > I know that not everyone has the gift of math and I am not judging, so for clarification going from 75% to 25% is not 75% - 25% = 50%

> > Let X be the PvE damage, then 75% of PvE is:

> > * (X)(0.75)

> > And 25% of PvE is:

> > * (X)(0.25)

> >

> > Therefore, the damage lost going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is:

> > * [(X)(0.25)/(X)(0.75) -1] * 100% = [(0.25/0.75) - 1] * 100%

> > * = -66.66%

> >

> > So, going from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE is not 50%, it is 66.66%

> >

> > > check the history of FC if it was split game mode wise [PvE ~ PvP/WvW]. then go from there to get the numbers.

> >

> > mmmm did you read my previous posts? I posted them with exact nerf damage

> > The calculated TOTAL damage nerfed FC since launch is -83%

> >

> > [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66) - 1] * 100% = - 83%

> >

> > * October 17 (Reduce damage by 12.5% in PvP and WvW only.)

> > * November 7 (Increased recharge from 8 seconds to 12 seconds in PvP and WvW only.) This is equivalent to a 33% damage reduction (8/12 -1)*100% = 33%

> > * March 27 (Reduced damage by 14% in PvP and WvW.)

> > * December 11 (reduced from 75% of PvE to 25% of PvE.) (-66.66% damage nerf)

> >

> > And just to add as a curiosity note: Do you know by how much damage they will have to buff FC to bring it back to its original version?

> > By 497% YES THAT IS CORRECT!

> > Percentages are not something to be mess with! That is why when you lose money in the stock market, it is very difficult to earn back what you lost.

> > How did I calculate 497% here is the equation:

> > let X be the percent damage increase to bring FC back to normal, then:

> > [(1 - 0.125)(1 - 0.33)(1 - 0.14)*(1 - 0.66)(1 + X) - 1] * 100% =0%

> >

> > Solving for X gives 4.97 which is 497%

>

> lel. don't justify your bork bork math. how many is lost when you go from .75 to .25? even a gradeschooler knows that.

 

Well, tell us Einstein. "How many" is lost when you go from .75 to .25?

[otto.5684]

> @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:

> > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > > > > @"Red Haired Savage.5430" said:

> > > > > > @"Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485" said:

> > > > > > > @"otto.5684" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Rysdude.3824" said:

> > > > > > > > So essentially now its just a block with a 1.5 daze, as a profession mechanic?

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > With 360, 10.5 sec CD, unblockable, that removes a boon on CC and copy 3 condis traited. It still does too much as it currently stands. It is a block. It is not supposed to do much else.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > its not a block at all. It only nullifies damage and is stable. Conditions and other effects still can be applied to the warrior, the stability keeps them from being CCed, but its only one stack and there is enough time for teams t dispel the stability and then cc before the counter goes off.

> > > > >

> > > > > As Cloud said it's not a block it's a burst skill, even says so in the description. Bursts are supposed to do damage.

> > > >

> > > > Anet wanted it to be a skill used for defensive purpose only

> > >

> > > that is a hell of a statement, got anything to back that up?

> >

> > Anet patch notes: “FC has different uses in competitive game modes compared to PvE.” They did not say it out right here, but they nerfed it’s damage by 75%. It is crystal clear that they are eluding to FC to be a dps skill in PvE and block/CC in PvP.

>

> If it were a defensive skill they'd have upped the evade, the length of time the counter attack is waiting. Or something along those lines, not lengthening the CC. Lengthening the CC is an offensive thing. What they think the skill is in competitive modes is something to stop your enemy and start a counteroffensive, but the problem is that with the amount of stability and stun breaks the CC is meaningless. So the short CC to disrupt the enemy with damage was the better answer because of the meta we're currently in, and the CC will probably end up doing nothing.

 

Okay then. Let’s remove the block and CC and make it only deal damage (it will be nearly useless). Again, clearly Anet wants the skills in PvP to be used as a block and CC (call it whatever you want). Is the change warranted? Abosolutey.

 

You can sit here and try to spin all the stories you want about how the damage of FC is essential. It is not true and Anet also does not agree. And honestly, it does not impact SB viability.