spellbrakers damage.

[Curennos.9307]

How much of the 'issue' is Rampage, though, and how much of it is the rest of warrior?

 

Anyway, it's important to differentiate between predictability and a telegraph. Holos can use forge5 whenever....there's nothing forcing them to use it immediately after going into forgemode. It's gated by the forge, so it has MORE predictability than other skills, but that doesn't mean that it's some kind of...idk, you make it out to be like ya can see the future with holos, whereas warrs are just mysterious enigmas - never know what they're gonna do next! Their skills also have a heft amount of telegraph (shield 4 and bull charge have a lovely, blatant little twirl before they land, about a second long). Just because it isn't a gloriously shiny, golden sky-leap doesn't mean it isn't feasible to recognize it. Dagger3 is an outlier and I wish they'd cut the dmg done when you don't interrupt something.

 

Really though, some people will probably really appreciate it if you paragraph out the last bit of your post, @Trevor Boyer.6524 . It's painful to try and respond to in an organized fashion. In short though, it really looks like you've hyperbolized to no small degree.

 

[RedShark.9548]

> @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > i would love to see a shave in damage in all there skills from f1 abilities to there utilities.

> > why should a gap closer, a knockdown and an leap combo finisher do 6k in damage? dont you think this is alittle to much?

> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qSpWBnp3JOLrx6ISx9aY4oyUVPxID_RL

>

> I agree, lately I've been noticing the same thing. But for all of the people in here tossing conjecture, let me make a few points here, concerning other classes:

>

> * Heralds - Lots of damage, more than a Spellbreaker on a burst but less DPS overall, and it can chase classes very well. However, Herald has no disengage and terrible sustain. One of the easiest classes to down if focused by more than 1 person.

> * Guardians - Lots of damage, more than a Spellbreaker on a burst but less DPS overall. However is has no disengage, no mobility outside of targeted teleports, and after Renewed Focus is burnt, it has an enormously vulnerable margin of time before important CDs come back, making it an easy kill if you just apply pressure and survive until Renewed Focus is baited.

> * Deadeyes - Lots of burst damage, much more than a Spellbreaker or at least it would seem so. The problems here is that DEs are useless when pressured and end up running around doing nothing, just trying to survive. Amongst higher tier opponents, it is usually a liability unless the DE is playing with specific team comps to cover its niche and the DE player is excellent at what he does. DEs can and will explode immediately when focused by good players. In other words, DE despite the damage isn't really viable unless circumstances are creating an advantageous moment to play it and/or the player is exceedingly good at the class.

> * S/D Thief - Seems somewhat equal in damage output to a Spellbreaker, but it's a Thief! If it gets targeted and CC'd, it's an easy kill. Nothing else needs to be said.

> * Holosmiths - It actually is feeling like less burst and less DPS vs. Spellbreaker lately imo. The reason I say this is because a Holo's burst is something that can be avoided/kited. Its CCs are also more telegraphed in the aspect that when he is in Forge you know the 5 is coming and when he is in Rifle you know the 4 is coming, and then all you have to do is watch out for the obvious rear back animation of the elite. In other words, the Holo can be played around due to it being sort of pigeonholed into certain rotations. <- This is important to understand.

> * Boonbeasts - I would have said before the patch, that Soulbeast was the primary 1v1 exploit. But after the patch... I'm having more problems with good Spellbreakers boys, I do have to say. Soulbeasts are powerful 1v1 and I would say easily the best 1v1er overall. Between the inflated damage and the Bunker Druidish sustain, this spec is a nightmare to deal with 1v1. But.... it is easily focused and killed 2v1. The Boonbeast has limited disengage and no burst healing in the way that a Druid or Holo has. So it relies upon those stacking regen effects, which aren't really that great when focused with a lot of 2v1 pressure. While being bursted and retreating, things like Druidic Clarity/Celestial Shadow/CA bursting or Elixir S/Heal Turret/Blasting is crucial to survive a bad spike during a 1v2. Point being: Boonbeasts do have a weakness, and it's being ganged up on by people who actually know how to chase and collaborate bursting. Whereas things like Mirages/Thieves ect ect, anything with lots of stealthing and teleportation or lots of movement skills, can actually survive those kind of situations. Boonbeast btw, has half the damage that a Spellbreaker has, DPS over time in a real 1v1 that is.

> * Mirages - It feels balanced now finally. Power certainly has more burst than a Spellbreaker but less DPS over the course of a 1v1 because it has to rear back for CDs for bursting, which is telegraphed and easy to avoid if you aren't caught flat footed. Condi has high damage but now at least the Mirage can be caught and it can't chase as well as it used to. The Mirage also has very limited condi cleanse and does get hit very hard if it screws up.

> * Necros of all kinds - Lots of damage, sure. But lately.... seriously... Spellbreaker feels like it's dealing all the damage of a Reaper on node. Reaper however has extremely limited disengage beyond Flesh Wurm and Spectral Walk tricks. Reaper has limited chase, it's good but not the best like a Herald/Thief/Mes. It has a few ultra hard counters. Scourge is the same for the most part. The thing that is the most limiting for Necros, is that they must stay in the team fight, and if their team mates have no team fight presence to allow the Necro to do what he needs to do, the good Necro can become useless. In other words, the Necro has serious weaknesses despite being so powerful in this meta.

> * Eles of all kinds - Meh, don't feel like I need to really comment on this. Its' still the most underpowered class.

> * SPELLBREAKERS - I want to clarify something: When people lately are saying that "Spellbreaker is dealing too much damage", they don't mean that whole number wise, it is more damage than a DE or a Core Guard Burst, what they mean is the class itself for what it already can do, has too much damage paired with it's enormous mobility in both chasing & disengaging & rotating, it's never ending CC cycles which keep you pinned down, and it's overly sturdy sustain while running even something like a Berserker Amulet. The thing here is a DE can be outrun LOS'd or sudden spike killed and I mean immediately down it. Holo can be kited. Even DPS Soulbeasts are squishy when caught and actually have limited disengage when focused by more than 1 thing that could teleport to enemies or chase well like a Spellbreaker. Other things with high damage output CAN DIE INSTANTLY when caught. <- Ok keep this in mind. Spellbreakers never die instantly, that is just something that doesn't happen. It's damage output is high because it can follow and chase and stay on top of anything outside of mega stealth uptime, and it CC trains you 100% of the time. Even with stability buffs, the Spellbreaker not only is the one class that actually has enough CCs to eat through stacks of stability, but the class itself is also designed to remove boons kitten. So you have something that can stay on top of you that you cannot escape outside of stealthing which not all classes/builds have access to, that is removing your boons and taking off your stability, that is 100% CC train cycling you to where it interrupts your skills and gives them time to deal all those heavy single strikes that are now hitting enormous damage values for what they are, and on top of that, it has a ton of sustain especially in 1v1 after these damage buffs, which has granted a lot of offensive pressure. So the last problem with it, that makes the damage feel so high, isn't actually the damage, it's the effect that these changes have created as a whole. The spellbreaker in a 1v1 situation gives the opponent little time to ever find an opening to where it is safe to attack the Spellbreaker, if it is even vulnerable at all, or if the opening ever it happens to begin with. Between the 100% CC train cycles, the Full Counters, the double Defy Pains, the Shield Block, you have a class that rolls at you like a boulder, stays on you, you can't get away from it, it's CCing you constantly interrupting your skills, removing boons, and sort of in a way constantly launching small combos + small defenses that never actually have a CD. Like seriously, it doesn't have a CD on these routine dangerous cycles. The best you can do is dodge its bursts to deny it of AH and Tether, but this is beginning to get impractical to do, considering how much CC it has. Let's actually go through the list here: 1. Dagger Three, 2. Shield Four, 3. Bull's Charge, 4. Rampage Gap Closer - Rock Throw - Stomp, 5. Full Counter. When a Spellbreaker manages this correctly, it is a CC train that never stops. <- These are the reasons that make the DPS too much imo. It's all of it combined that makes the level of the Spellbreaker's current DPS feel way too high, because you're fighting something that you cannot run from without heavy use of stealth, that keeps you CC'd, that has strong defenses and sustain. That now lands 3 shot, 2 shot kind of potential with its GS side and Rampage. That offensive pressure that its has, is worth more sustain than it had before, because the harder it can hit you, then more often you have to go into defensive cycles to try and survive, equating to the Spellbreaker just being too safe and dealing too much damage. The most important advantage to point out that the Spellbreaker has however, is that it is the opposite of something like a Holosmith in the aspect off "being pigeonholed into rotations". Spellbreakers have the luxury of being completely random in the usage of their skills. I mean there is nothing telegraphed here, they can use any of it in any order they want. THIS is the source of it's true strength right here. Due to this, Spellbreaker attack patterns aren't so easy to gauge, and since they don't dedicate to any real combo play and EVERYTHING they use hits hard, you're never really sure what to dodge, and you just end up getting hit by a bunch of kitten that deals 7-11k strikes in succession, no matter what skills they are using. <- This is where the problem really is.

>

> So the ultimate point here is that other classes with high DPS, have vulnerabilities and telegraphed bursting that can be played around. Spellbreaker not so much.

>

 

Just to clarify things, you mentioned stuff that is not true, making your whole argument kind of pointless.

The spellbreaker build that yall are talking about is using disciplin, strength and spb.

There is no defense traitline, so no auto endure pain->double endure pain gone, hell they dont even play normal endure pain, metabattle top tetherbuild uses bullscharge, signet of stamina and shake it off. So not even no double endure pain, none at all.

 

No defense traitline means no adrenal health, which is warriors strongest healing effect, also no shield trait(no cd reduction, mightgain from blocks and no reflect) and no auto balanced stance or rousing resillience.

Those warrior builds are not as tanky as you all believe, hell the only time you wont be able to dmg them is while they shieldblock which has untraited a 25s cooldown and fc with 12s cd and doges

Sure they are good in 1v1 fights but in 1vx they drop faster than you all are trying to make ppl believe.

 

The fact that you think that warriors still play double endure pain makes me question if you are actually playing the game or stopped years ago, repeating stuff you heard like a parrot.

 

Oh btw to OP, gs f1 only hurts if you are under 50%health, warriors are highly telegraphed in what they are doing (so easy to dodge the hard hitting stuff) , if it was the end of the fight and you had all your defenses on cd its just right that he killed you, do you seriously want a dmg spec to not be able to kill a defenseless ele? You must be kidding, do you want everyone to just throw around cotton balls just so you never die again, even after you used everything.

 

My best tipp for all those that complain so much about warrior is to play the ckass themself to learn how to fight them.

[idolin.2831]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

>

> My best tipp for all those that complain so much about warrior is to play the ckass themself to learn how to fight them.

 

Actually that applies to nearly all classes - sure, there are builds that are very strong and almost everyone can agree on that. It doesn't mean you can't fight them better though, and one of the best ways to learn about a class is to actually play it. I'm actually afraid to call for nerfs of any kinds unless I've actually tried the class a bit myself.

 

 

[RedShark.9548]

> @"idolin.2831" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> >

> > My best tipp for all those that complain so much about warrior is to play the ckass themself to learn how to fight them.

>

> Actually that applies to nearly all classes - sure, there are builds that are very strong and almost everyone can agree on that. It doesn't mean you can't fight them better though, and one of the best ways to learn about a class is to actually play it. I'm actually afraid to call for nerfs of any kinds unless I've actually tried the class a bit myself.

>

>

 

Ofc it applies to all classes, but it seems that not everybody knows that.

The point is that if you play a class you learn about its weaknesses and then you might understand why some things dont actually need a nerf

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"idolin.2831" said:

> > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > >

> > > My best tipp for all those that complain so much about warrior is to play the ckass themself to learn how to fight them.

> >

> > Actually that applies to nearly all classes - sure, there are builds that are very strong and almost everyone can agree on that. It doesn't mean you can't fight them better though, and one of the best ways to learn about a class is to actually play it. I'm actually afraid to call for nerfs of any kinds unless I've actually tried the class a bit myself.

> >

> >

>

> Ofc it applies to all classes, but it seems that not everybody knows that.

> The point is that if you play a class you learn about its weaknesses and then you might understand why some things dont actually need a nerf

 

What is need nerfs is rampage ,cd recharge should match lichform/moa signet . 8k crits from everything that isnt a kick just retarded,tons of bonus health,damage reduction and movement impairing conditions also reduced.

Aside that fix bug with sword insta tether without hit. GS3 evade damage is too high imo and ofc BC evade/high damage/3s knock could use some love from nerfhammer,may be 1s stun would be only real change for it, not 3.

Feel free to explain why its shouldnt happen . For example I would be satsfied with rampage nerf in cooldown to 180s cd . Mesmer signets no longer gain reduced recharge. Necromancer doesnt get reduced cd on spectral skills. Or put it to 150s(to match lich-form) cd with removal recharge on physical skills from peak performance

[RedShark.9548]

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > @"idolin.2831" said:

> > > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > > >

> > > > My best tipp for all those that complain so much about warrior is to play the ckass themself to learn how to fight them.

> > >

> > > Actually that applies to nearly all classes - sure, there are builds that are very strong and almost everyone can agree on that. It doesn't mean you can't fight them better though, and one of the best ways to learn about a class is to actually play it. I'm actually afraid to call for nerfs of any kinds unless I've actually tried the class a bit myself.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Ofc it applies to all classes, but it seems that not everybody knows that.

> > The point is that if you play a class you learn about its weaknesses and then you might understand why some things dont actually need a nerf

>

> What is need nerfs is rampage ,cd recharge should match lichform/moa signet . 8k crits from everything that isnt a kick just kitten,tons of bonus health,damage reduction and movement impairing conditions also reduced.

> Aside that fix bug with sword insta tether without hit. GS3 evade damage is too high imo and ofc BC evade/high damage/3s knock could use some love from nerfhammer,may be 1s stun would be only real change for it, not 3.

> Feel free to explain why its shouldnt happen

 

Rampage is too strong i agree. Again the reason why the rest shouldnt change alot is because those high dmg numbers are only achieved by sacrificing most of the warriors defenses, which most ppl dont seem to realize. They go full monkey mode in the dmg multiplier and sacrifice their defenses, they should hurt, wouldnt make sense to not do dmg.

 

Also to the knockdown of bullscharge, if you are cced for that long without breaking the cc you deserve to be dead, sorry but the game is so oversaturated with stunbreaks and stability that it makes no difference if the knockdown is 3,2 or 1 second.

 

Oh and while we further nerf the warrior dmg please also nerf the dmg of every other class please. Soulbiests for example have a much much longer range and can dish out just as much dmg as warriors. Keep in mind that any viable spec for warrior is full melee without any option to apply pressure from range

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

You agree on rampage, thats good. Yet gs3 does too much damage even without strenght on its own.For evade/mobility skill should do less imo

Let me think ... traited 24s cd on 3s knockdown with inbuilt evade and HIGH damage... (while breaking immobilize). You seems to not realize that utility is overtuned af

I agree souldumb is being too retarded , beastmastery merge now gives TONS of stats and they didnt need it even but we know anet they dont recognize mistakes and never undo once its done.Sick em need huge nerf thats for sure.

Rifle does really high damage now and not hit way more than a wet noodle as it used to be. Sure not as competitive as melee versions but does respectable damage that you cant ignore ^.^ ((not saying its optimal or something in PvP, in wvw its another story))

[RedShark.9548]

> @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> You agree on rampage, thats good. Yet gs3 does too much damage even without strenght on its own.For evade/mobility skill should do less imo

> Let me think ... traited 24s cd on 3s knockdown with inbuilt evade and HIGH damage... (while breaking immobilize). You seems to not realize that utility is overtuned af

> I agree souldumb is being too kitten , beastmastery merge now gives TONS of stats and they didnt need it even but we know anet they dont recognize mistakes and never undo once its done.Sick em need huge nerf thats for sure.

> Rifle does really high damage now and not hit way more than a wet noodle as it used to be. Sure not as competitive as melee versions but does respectable damage that you cant ignore ^.^ ((not saying its optimal or something in PvP, in wvw its another story))

 

Especially in wvw rifle is not an option. There is waaaay more projectile hate flung around than in pvp.

Gs3 is okey imo, if you get hit more then once by it you are doing something wrong, its pretty ez to see when a warrior is going to use it. I dont see it as a main evade or mobillity skill, i see it as a dmg skill honestly, think about it, most classes can apply dmg with various skills WHILE moving, why should warri only have stationary dmg skills? It makes no sense.

 

Breaking immo on movement is just a trait thing, not from the utillity alone, it has a big tell and is easy to avoid. It is single target dmg and with 24s on a fairly long cd imo. Other classes hit more than 6k with aoes on lower cds.

Again, the length of the knockdown is whatever, it doesnt matter if 2 or 3 seconds, there are way too many stunbreaks and stab flying around in the game. Pre hot the amount of stab and stunbreaks was fair, but after hot cc almost became obsolete. Hammer on warrior is one of my favourite weapons, but completely useless since hot.

[tinyreborn.1938]

> @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > @"tinyreborn.1938" said:

> > > @"RedShark.9548" said:

> > You agree on rampage, thats good. Yet gs3 does too much damage even without strenght on its own.For evade/mobility skill should do less imo

> > Let me think ... traited 24s cd on 3s knockdown with inbuilt evade and HIGH damage... (while breaking immobilize). You seems to not realize that utility is overtuned af

> > I agree souldumb is being too kitten , beastmastery merge now gives TONS of stats and they didnt need it even but we know anet they dont recognize mistakes and never undo once its done.Sick em need huge nerf thats for sure.

> > Rifle does really high damage now and not hit way more than a wet noodle as it used to be. Sure not as competitive as melee versions but does respectable damage that you cant ignore ^.^ ((not saying its optimal or something in PvP, in wvw its another story))

>

> Especially in wvw rifle is not an option. There is waaaay more projectile hate flung around than in pvp.

> Gs3 is okey imo, if you get hit more then once by it you are doing something wrong, its pretty ez to see when a warrior is going to use it. I dont see it as a main evade or mobillity skill .

Well ,arguing about it wont get us anywhere but saying bs like U GET HIT MORE THAN ONCE U ARE BAD its more than retarded . Played war myself and always get 3-4 hits.

BTW you cant justify such absurd skill as BC 3s knockdown 5-7k crits and evade amount of stability ppl have

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Forum: NERF WARRIOR!!!!

Warriors: We just got heavily nerfed???

 

Meanwhile: Mirage and BoonBeast are laughing the their asses off.

 

 

 

 

[Mbelch.9028]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > i would love to see a shave in damage in all there skills from f1 abilities to there utilities.

> > why should a gap closer, a knockdown and an leap combo finisher do 6k in damage? dont you think this is alittle to much?

> > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qSpWBnp3JOLrx6ISx9aY4oyUVPxID_RL

>

> No....considering 6k is close to the damage holo leap gets on a shorter CD

 

How often do you say this? Post a screenshot of that damage. It's not real damage in actual scenarios.

 

An ele lightning whip can hit 6k if it's full zerk, full damage modified and 25 stacks of mighted. Doesn't mean it's effective.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Mbelch.9028" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > i would love to see a shave in damage in all there skills from f1 abilities to there utilities.

> > > why should a gap closer, a knockdown and an leap combo finisher do 6k in damage? dont you think this is alittle to much?

> > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qSpWBnp3JOLrx6ISx9aY4oyUVPxID_RL

> >

> > No....considering 6k is close to the damage holo leap gets on a shorter CD

>

> How often do you say this?

Dunno..You could easily look at my history and tell me. . .

Also-

You are right. Highest hit was 5.3k so not 6k. It's the added shockwave of Corona burst that goes off around the same time as Holo Leap hits-

Yes the build is full zerk, just like the build you are complaining about. I'm not seeing an issue with comparing two off brand specs

Then want to talk about unrealistic?

 

I wonder how many times you have done this?

[The Ace.9105]

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> The question is how the hell did you allow warrior to hit you with bull's charge, whirl wind, Rush, and Arcing Slice in that order?

> * Bull charge = "Look at me I am going to hit you, I also make a noise so you better dodge in 3, 2, 1"

> * Whirl wind = "Oh he use whirl win, I better dodge so i get hit only once"

> * Rush = "how cute this warrior, let me count 3,2,1 dodge"

> * Arcing Slice = You were already dead and he hit you when you were down.

>

> the warrior did not have cooldown on GS and yet you did not even dodge a single attack?

> Bull charge = hit

> Whirl wind = hit X 3

> Rush = hit

> Arcing slice = hit

>

> You have serious L2P issues boy!

 

Still with that comment i love how you can count dude. We have 2 dodges and yeah we see the first bulls charge which we dodge and then if we are fast enough we dodge the whirlwind and then we run out of dodges. Rush if it hits can be 8-12k so you'll have to use surv skill. Then arching slice you'll have to have second surv skill ready. Then warrior pops rampage, hits you with 8k stone and 6k kick and you are dead. Fun and interesting gameplay mechanics and not frustrating af or anything.

 

See the problem? All the skills warrior has are pretty much high damage skills and you'll have big cc skills that you must dodge so you'll have to focus and try to predict the warrior rotation and be ready for the rampage pop and maybe tank some hits for that. The design is dumb and annoying. You'll spend tons of time just dodging and using surv skills while the warrior has passive regen that keeps it alive. There's only little windows you can actually try to do damage to the warrior but if it has longer cast time the warrior will hit you 6k or something or hit that 6k cc and 1 shot you with it's burst.

 

Warrior is not a fighter class it is cc burst machine.

[Solori.6025]

> @"Mbelch.9028" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > i would love to see a shave in damage in all there skills from f1 abilities to there utilities.

> > > why should a gap closer, a knockdown and an leap combo finisher do 6k in damage? dont you think this is alittle to much?

> > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qSpWBnp3JOLrx6ISx9aY4oyUVPxID_RL

> >

> > No....considering 6k is close to the damage holo leap gets on a shorter CD

>

> How often do you say this? Post a screenshot of that damage. It's not real damage in actual scenarios.

>

> An ele lightning whip can hit 6k if it's full zerk, full damage modified and 25 stacks of mighted. Doesn't mean it's effective.

 

Also here is your screenie..

New record.

8k

https://imgur.com/a/mrfWBrm

[Solori.6025]

> @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > The question is how the hell did you allow warrior to hit you with bull's charge, whirl wind, Rush, and Arcing Slice in that order?

> > * Bull charge = "Look at me I am going to hit you, I also make a noise so you better dodge in 3, 2, 1"

> > * Whirl wind = "Oh he use whirl win, I better dodge so i get hit only once"

> > * Rush = "how cute this warrior, let me count 3,2,1 dodge"

> > * Arcing Slice = You were already dead and he hit you when you were down.

> >

> > the warrior did not have cooldown on GS and yet you did not even dodge a single attack?

> > Bull charge = hit

> > Whirl wind = hit X 3

> > Rush = hit

> > Arcing slice = hit

> >

> > You have serious L2P issues boy!

>

> Still with that comment i love how you can count dude. We have 2 dodges and yeah we see the first bulls charge which we dodge

 

or use stab *

 

>and then if we are fast enough we dodge the whirlwind and then we run out of dodges

 

You can also side step parts of it as the skill doesnt track. But for safe reasons well say you dodged

 

> Rush if it hits can be 8-12k so you'll have to use surv skill.

 

OR a CC skill or a soft CC like blind, and if the build is forgoing any type of defense, an immobilize

 

>Then arching slice you'll have to have second surv skill ready.

If you managed to not be a potato you should actually be out of range by the time this happens OR refilled on one dodge In which case you could just...dodge....

 

>Then warrior pops rampage, hits you with 8k stone and 6k kick and you are dead. Fun and interesting gameplay mechanics and not frustrating af or anything.

 

Honestly Rampage is a problem skill I see right now, but then it's on like a 72s (90s without str) CD but I can agree..it's a lil stronk

> See the problem? All the skills warrior has are pretty much high damage skills and you'll have big cc skills that you must dodge so you'll have to focus and try to predict the warrior rotation.

Or you could just play with a brain attached, kite and CC to interrupt their chain and pressure them to blow CD's

 

Like in every scenario people keep listing perfect situations as if the only thing you have on is a melee weapon and one stun break with no access to other boons or the ability to fight back.

Why?

 

 

[The Ace.9105]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > > The question is how the hell did you allow warrior to hit you with bull's charge, whirl wind, Rush, and Arcing Slice in that order?

> > > * Bull charge = "Look at me I am going to hit you, I also make a noise so you better dodge in 3, 2, 1"

> > > * Whirl wind = "Oh he use whirl win, I better dodge so i get hit only once"

> > > * Rush = "how cute this warrior, let me count 3,2,1 dodge"

> > > * Arcing Slice = You were already dead and he hit you when you were down.

> > >

> > > the warrior did not have cooldown on GS and yet you did not even dodge a single attack?

> > > Bull charge = hit

> > > Whirl wind = hit X 3

> > > Rush = hit

> > > Arcing slice = hit

> > >

> > > You have serious L2P issues boy!

> >

> > Still with that comment i love how you can count dude. We have 2 dodges and yeah we see the first bulls charge which we dodge

>

> or use stab *

>

> >and then if we are fast enough we dodge the whirlwind and then we run out of dodges

>

> You can also side step parts of it as the skill doesnt track. But for safe reasons well say you dodged

>

> > Rush if it hits can be 8-12k so you'll have to use surv skill.

>

> OR a CC skill or a soft CC like blind, and if the build is forgoing any type of defense, an immobilize

>

> >Then arching slice you'll have to have second surv skill ready.

> If you managed to not be a potato you should actually be out of range by the time this happens OR refilled on one dodge In which case you could just...dodge....

>

> >Then warrior pops rampage, hits you with 8k stone and 6k kick and you are dead. Fun and interesting gameplay mechanics and not frustrating af or anything.

>

> Honestly Rampage is a problem skill I see right now, but then it's on like a 72s (90s without str) CD but I can agree..it's a lil stronk

> > See the problem? All the skills warrior has are pretty much high damage skills and you'll have big cc skills that you must dodge so you'll have to focus and try to predict the warrior rotation.

> Or you could just play with a brain attached, kite and CC to interrupt their chain and pressure them to blow CD's

>

> Like in every scenario people keep listing perfect situations as if the only thing you have on is a melee weapon and one stun break with no access to other boons or the ability to fight back.

> Why?

>

>

 

cause some classes don't have stab, use immob etc. not getting you that far with short warrior cd and your cc skills aren't doing the damage to pressure the warrior with the stupid passive regen, passive endure pain, shield block, gs dodge fc, 2 stuncbreaks?, and 2 dodges. Also the mode is conquest where your job is to hold points.

 

Yeah you can win the warrior in 1v1 if you trick, jump, flex and spin around with the joy of playing pvp but the punishment from doing 1 mistake is seriously stupid and fighting against warriors is not fun and is very frustrating. The stupid Warrior class became low risk high reward class back in the vanilla with hambow patch and has basically been that noob class since then.

 

Also the warrior cc gap closers track target so that you can't run away from the animation and if you do you'll still get hit within a certain radius even tho it looks like the animation missed you by a mile, so fun. Dodging away from the warrior also causes the gap closer to hit you so when you spin around with the joy of pvp you'll have to make sure you don't dodge to the wrong direction or you'll get insta 1 shot cc comboed.

[Caedmon.6798]

> @"Aktium.9506" said:

> > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > Disagree,it can be easily shutdown in numerous ways.immobilize/condi spikes,taking distance,popping invulns etc.If you do get hit,thats on you.I never even run it myself cus of how easy it is to shut down or force him out of it.

> There is nothing easy about shutting down a Rampage, especially not in small fights. It's doable but calling it easy is a blatant lie.

 

It can,i even told you how.

[Curennos.9307]

> @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"The Ace.9105" said:

> > > > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > > > The question is how the hell did you allow warrior to hit you with bull's charge, whirl wind, Rush, and Arcing Slice in that order?

> > > > * Bull charge = "Look at me I am going to hit you, I also make a noise so you better dodge in 3, 2, 1"

> > > > * Whirl wind = "Oh he use whirl win, I better dodge so i get hit only once"

> > > > * Rush = "how cute this warrior, let me count 3,2,1 dodge"

> > > > * Arcing Slice = You were already dead and he hit you when you were down.

> > > >

> > > > the warrior did not have cooldown on GS and yet you did not even dodge a single attack?

> > > > Bull charge = hit

> > > > Whirl wind = hit X 3

> > > > Rush = hit

> > > > Arcing slice = hit

> > > >

> > > > You have serious L2P issues boy!

> > >

> > > Still with that comment i love how you can count dude. We have 2 dodges and yeah we see the first bulls charge which we dodge

> >

> > or use stab *

> >

> > >and then if we are fast enough we dodge the whirlwind and then we run out of dodges

> >

> > You can also side step parts of it as the skill doesnt track. But for safe reasons well say you dodged

> >

> > > Rush if it hits can be 8-12k so you'll have to use surv skill.

> >

> > OR a CC skill or a soft CC like blind, and if the build is forgoing any type of defense, an immobilize

> >

> > >Then arching slice you'll have to have second surv skill ready.

> > If you managed to not be a potato you should actually be out of range by the time this happens OR refilled on one dodge In which case you could just...dodge....

> >

> > >Then warrior pops rampage, hits you with 8k stone and 6k kick and you are dead. Fun and interesting gameplay mechanics and not frustrating af or anything.

> >

> > Honestly Rampage is a problem skill I see right now, but then it's on like a 72s (90s without str) CD but I can agree..it's a lil stronk

> > > See the problem? All the skills warrior has are pretty much high damage skills and you'll have big cc skills that you must dodge so you'll have to focus and try to predict the warrior rotation.

> > Or you could just play with a brain attached, kite and CC to interrupt their chain and pressure them to blow CD's

> >

> > Like in every scenario people keep listing perfect situations as if the only thing you have on is a melee weapon and one stun break with no access to other boons or the ability to fight back.

> > Why?

> >

> >

>

> cause some classes don't have stab, use immob etc. not getting you that far with short warrior cd and your cc skills aren't doing the damage to pressure the warrior with the stupid passive regen, passive endure pain, shield block, gs dodge fc, 2 stuncbreaks?, and 2 dodges. Also the mode is conquest where your job is to hold points.

>

> Yeah you can win the warrior in 1v1 if you trick, jump, flex and spin around with the joy of playing pvp but the punishment from doing 1 mistake is seriously stupid and fighting against warriors is not fun and is very frustrating. The stupid Warrior class became low risk high reward class back in the vanilla with hambow patch and has basically been that noob class since then.

>

> Also the warrior cc gap closers track target so that you can't run away from the animation and if you do you'll still get hit within a certain radius even tho it looks like the animation missed you by a mile, so fun. Dodging away from the warrior also causes the gap closer to hit you so when you spin around with the joy of pvp you'll have to make sure you don't dodge to the wrong direction or you'll get insta 1 shot cc comboed.

 

The classes that don't have stab/immob have other things. Almost like different classes are different. O.o But they all have feasible counterplay to warr. You list a lot of things warrior has, for some reason, as if a repetitive list will somehow justify your pov. Might I suggest digging a little into what other classes have available?

[Aktium.9506]

> @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > @"Aktium.9506" said:

> > > @"Caedmon.6798" said:

> > > Disagree,it can be easily shutdown in numerous ways.immobilize/condi spikes,taking distance,popping invulns etc.If you do get hit,thats on you.I never even run it myself cus of how easy it is to shut down or force him out of it.

> > There is nothing easy about shutting down a Rampage, especially not in small fights. It's doable but calling it easy is a blatant lie.

>

> It can,i even told you how.

Yeah, nah. I play nothing but Necro and the ways of counterplay you mentioned are all pretty sparse for me. Immob is pretty rare since they changed boon corrupt table to not contain Immob so that's out. And I seem to have misplaced my Necro invulns, let me know if you find them for me. So the only valid counterplay you mentioned is taking distance. If it's not a map with verticality, that means sacrificing a utility slot. And no, you're generally not going to be condi spiking a Warr or Engi in Rampage. Not unless he's exceptionally bad or you got a pocket mirage or 2nd nec popping up to save you. Even if he plays it risky and pops that at 6k health he will have 12k in Rampage. Assuming I'm not +1 him most of my cooldowns will have been used to survive before he goes Rampage. Like it's definitely possible to kill a Rampage if you got full LF and all cooldowns. You just usually don't have those when you're actually facing them. Of course, on maps with verticality like Nifl you don't even need cooldowns since you can just do some fancy jumping and all you need to avoid is the boulder throw and tether. It's not an I-win-button by any means. But it's definitely one of the strongest if not the strongest Elite skill in PvP. Saying it ain't won't change that. And the people with access to it are Warrs who are usually running a really strong duellist build and Holos who are great at both 1v1s and teamfights. It's a lot of added power where there doesn't need to be any more than what is already there.

 

Now, I honestly don't have much of an issue with it on Warrs since I shouldn't be facing those alone anyway in my role. That's for the sidenoders to deal with and sidenoders usually run builds that are even more obnoxious, so it evens out. If I am somehow facing one on my own and with no +1 incoming something went wrong or I fucked up and I deserve to get rekt. Most of my grief with Rampage is that it exists on Holos. Because those I do have to deal with and unlike the acceptable 144s cd Warrs have on Rampage, Holos have that disgusting 80s CD in exchange for it being rng. But that's still utterly disgusting when it actually does get used back to back off cd because they get lucky, or god forbid, in the same drawn out fight. And sometimes it gets ridiculous because seeing 2 Holos and 1 Warr on a single team isn't that outrageous. And I have indeed been on the receiving end of triple Rampages.

 

I would like to see it gone from Elixir X entirely. Holos can run Prime Light Beam instead, that's a much cooler skill anyway. And it's damage reduced for Warr, because getting hit once by Rampage usually means it's game over. And that's just not ok coupled with the defensive capabilities and cc of Rampage. I'm mostly ok with getting chunked for 80% of my HP by a Warr(not in ramp), Rev or Guard hitting a key skill on me because you can usually recover or counterpressure when that happens because they're usually pretty squish to achieve that sort of damage. And yeah it's on me for getting hit in the first place. Rampage isn't squish and there's really not a lot you can do to recover from actually getting run over by a Rampage if you don't manage to kite away.

[Horan.7013]

I thought spellbreaker just got nerfed to the ground. I am beginning to wonder if OP is simply trolling. I say Anet needs to nerf Berserker even more while Nerfing Spellbreaker. Why? Because the name ”berseker” is scary. Let's nerf it some more :)

Seriously, have you met a boonbeast? One shot soulbeast? Holo? Mirage? There are few OP classes still out there.

[Shuriken.6738]

Hey hey guys ill tell you a secret, there is about face keybind so you can save your fucking dodges and dont tell me bullshit as you need to dodge every warrior skill. Why is warrior even being discussed when there are much worse offenders in meta such as mesmer or boonbeast which remained the same after patch and has monopoly in duels its actually fukin hilarious.

[Derenaya.3479]

> @"Shuriken.6738" said:

> Hey hey guys ill tell you a secret, there is about face keybind so you can save your kitten dodges and dont tell me kitten as you need to dodge every warrior skill. Why is warrior even being discussed when there are much worse offenders in meta such as mesmer or boonbeast which remained the same after patch and has monopoly in duels its actually kitten hilarious.

 

How do I evade a skill with about face without using a dodge?

 

 

[Aza.2105]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> Forum: NERF SPELLBREAKER!!!

> Anet: Nerfs Spellbreaker. Full Counter does no dmg anymore.

> Forum: NERF SPELLBREAKER!!!

> Anet: kitten?

 

Damage isn't really the problem. Its the sustain without investing into a amulet that provides it. There would be less complaints if warrior had to invest in healing power in order to obtain the levels of sustain they currently have. But they do not, while every other class does. Its always been a problem, its why healing signet was nerfed so many times. But it became a bit over the top when they buffed adrenal health. On the flip side of things, if they reverted adrenal health to its original state then warrior would be knocked out of the meta. And that wouldn't be good.

 

Anet just needs to make a healthy balance on how much sustain they can obtain while not investing into amulets that provide such.

[toxic.3648]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Mbelch.9028" said:

> > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > @"Eddbopkins.2630" said:

> > > > i would love to see a shave in damage in all there skills from f1 abilities to there utilities.

> > > > why should a gap closer, a knockdown and an leap combo finisher do 6k in damage? dont you think this is alittle to much?

> > > > https://drive.google.com/open?id=1qSpWBnp3JOLrx6ISx9aY4oyUVPxID_RL

> > >

> > > No....considering 6k is close to the damage holo leap gets on a shorter CD

> >

> > How often do you say this? Post a screenshot of that damage. It's not real damage in actual scenarios.

> >

> > An ele lightning whip can hit 6k if it's full zerk, full damage modified and 25 stacks of mighted. Doesn't mean it's effective.

>

> Also here is your screenie..

> New record.

> 8k

> https://imgur.com/a/mrfWBrm

 

and now show us the traitlines ure using to reach that dmg, that wont happen on tools/alchemy setup even with zerg. u need like firearms/eksplosions to reach that and then u are as unviable as u can be on a holo .. nice food buffs too, didnt know we had those in matches to buff our dmg aswell

[Shuriken.6738]

@"Derenaya.3479" By moving out of range? The key to beat warrior is always keeping your distance. If we speak about strenght warrior high damage skills like Arcing slice, Final Trust can be easily juked just by about facing since it has range of auto attack but longer cast time (atleast Final Trust does), same with whirlwind, you can just move out of its path if you dont let warrior get close to you and here is the part where you actually need to dodge Bullcharge/Shield Bash/Savage Leap. You have to keep in mind to avoid triggering Full Counter because you reseting burst skills and you will really run out of dodges. Also its funny how people ignoring the fact that every class has their kit that includes cc, conditions, moving - impairing conditions, gap closer leaps and such to prevent you from running out of dodges, they implying that their class is defensless and they have to dodge warrior 24/7, I wonder if they ever tried pressure warrior since that build has no stab, no immunities, 2 stunbreak tied to condi remove that has 5 second time frame with no stunbreak.