Cherdakuru.5841 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > Your example just agreed with my point. It would involve me paying ANet extra in order to do a chore. I can, if I so choose, currently do chores in gw2 without paying extra. > How much could I expect ANet to pay me to do that dance thing? Anything less than my hourly rate at my job would be a net loss. I guess I would be willing to do it for somewhere in the $50 per hour range. But that's not paying for only one chore, that's a multiple chores like that in 10 weeks Also no one says tasks should be routine They can be fun and all, and there can be a lot of them if they want I would pay if they do it because i want to support them financially in their moving to right direction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherdakuru.5841 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > I said nothing about price. You are mistaken about how that system works. I bought a lot of those chests and feeling guilty about that actually Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mindcircus.1506 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Elspereth.1280" said: > > @"Cherdakuru.5841" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > As it stands a player who opens BLC will eventually get what she wants due to the statuettes included. > > > > > > I am not opposed to something to replace BLC, I dont like them at all, but paying extra money in order to have to do chores to get desirable rewards seems like paying my boss to be allowed to work for my company. > > > > You are paying for the extra content here. And for the extra opportunities. > > Fortnite as example, since i think it is the best realisation of this model. (could be wrong) > > There was danceoff challenge, you needed to get to the dancefloor and make a dance battle with another player. > > That is a kind of a mini-game, 2 squares like 3 on 3. When on of those little squares inside turns lights on, you should use dance emote. Longer you stand on it more points you get. Little-squares are constantly changing one after another. > > It was challenging, because some players decided that it would be fun to get free kills on the players that are here just for challenge. > > And lots of players were they every game. > > I mean it is not routine as you would think. Not another type of dailies. > > Sounds horrible to me, it is something I would actively avoid. As did most of the player base of Fortnite. The "Disco Domination" LTM was wildly unpopular and otehr than those getting their challenges in for battle pass it was ignored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elspereth.1280 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > @"Elspereth.1280" said: > > One issue is that a fair number of people farm keys instead of buying them. > > That would actually be in favour of the season pass, at least for Arena Net. > The issue is: RNG = more money. > Season pass would be, what 30€ max? Assuming a Yearly one. > The one in Fortnite is like 10€. > > Now, 10 Black Lion Keys in GW2, that's over 10€. 25 Keys is roughly 25€. > Do you see how RNG and lootboxes are more profitable? So it's very unlikely that Arena Net will phase out the Black Lion chests, unless a more significant portion of their market goes the way of Belgium, something i'm rooting for. I think you are misunderstanding me. Of course loot boxes are more profitable and I for one am actually pro-loot box (edit- at least the way gw2 does it) and against the season pass. > > > @"Elspereth.1280" said: > > > @"Cherdakuru.5841" said: > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > As it stands a player who opens BLC will eventually get what she wants due to the statuettes included. > > > > > > > > I am not opposed to something to replace BLC, I dont like them at all, but paying extra money in order to have to do chores to get desirable rewards seems like paying my boss to be allowed to work for my company. > > > > > > You are paying for the extra content here. And for the extra opportunities. > > > Fortnite as example, since i think it is the best realisation of this model. (could be wrong) > > > There was danceoff challenge, you needed to get to the dancefloor and make a dance battle with another player. > > > That is a kind of a mini-game, 2 squares like 3 on 3. When on of those little squares inside turns lights on, you should use dance emote. Longer you stand on it more points you get. Little-squares are constantly changing one after another. > > > It was challenging, because some players decided that it would be fun to get free kills on the players that are here just for challenge. > > > And lots of players were they every game. > > > I mean it is not routine as you would think. Not another type of dailies. > > > > Sounds horrible to me, it is something I would actively avoid. > > Not has horrible as the thing it would replace though. I am not understanding you here, what thing are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherdakuru.5841 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"mindcircus.1506" said: > As did most of the player base of Fortnite. The "Disco Domination" LTM was wildly unpopular and otehr than those getting their challenges in for battle pass it was ignored Wow, now you just making false statements. "Disco Domination" LTM is a free mode and not a part of the battlepass. Those here are just for fun and probably to test features. But mostly - for fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherdakuru.5841 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Elspereth.1280" said: > I think you are misunderstanding me. Of course loot boxes are more profitable and I for one am actually pro-loot box (edit- at least the way gw2 does it) and against the season pass. Edit: I love spending money on the items, which i won't get for sure. That feeling, when you buy 25 keys and don't get even uncommon! Oh, nvm, just bad luck, the universe is unfair, lets buy another 25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elspereth.1280 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Cherdakuru.5841" said: > > @"Elspereth.1280" said: > > > I think you are misunderstanding me. Of course loot boxes are more profitable and I for one am actually pro-loot box (edit- at least the way gw2 does it) and against the season pass. > Edit: I love spending money on the items, which i won't get for sure. That feeling, when you buy 25 keys and don't get even uncommon! Oh, nvm, just bad luck, the universe is unfair, lets buy another 25 > Different people, different opinions [shrug] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasimir.6239 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Cherdakuru.5841" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > Your example just agreed with my point. It would involve me paying ANet extra in order to do a chore. I can, if I so choose, currently do chores in gw2 without paying extra. > > How much could I expect ANet to pay me to do that dance thing? Anything less than my hourly rate at my job would be a net loss. I guess I would be willing to do it for somewhere in the $50 per hour range. > But that's not paying for only one chore, that's a multiple chores like that in 10 weeks > Also no one says tasks should be routine > They can be fun and all, and there can be a lot of them if they want > I would pay if they do it because i want to support them financially in their moving to right direction The beauty of this game (to me) is that it lets me pick my own fun, rather than showering me with lots of carrots on sticks in the form of dailies, mandatory quests, reputation grinds and similar. What you describe as tasks to progress on the battle pass is just that: a long list of carrots on sticks for those who are unable or unwilling to just play the content they enjoy for the sake of playing. Personally I'd rather have content I can enjoy at my leisure and gain most rewards through a variety of activities (including trading the loot I find to gold to get other things from the trading post) than grind through a pre-defined set of chores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherdakuru.5841 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Rasimir.6239" said: > > @"Cherdakuru.5841" said: > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > Your example just agreed with my point. It would involve me paying ANet extra in order to do a chore. I can, if I so choose, currently do chores in gw2 without paying extra. > > > How much could I expect ANet to pay me to do that dance thing? Anything less than my hourly rate at my job would be a net loss. I guess I would be willing to do it for somewhere in the $50 per hour range. > > But that's not paying for only one chore, that's a multiple chores like that in 10 weeks > > Also no one says tasks should be routine > > They can be fun and all, and there can be a lot of them if they want > > I would pay if they do it because i want to support them financially in their moving to right direction > The beauty of this game (to me) is that it lets me pick my own fun, rather than showering me with lots of carrots on sticks in the form of dailies, mandatory quests, reputation grinds and similar. What you describe as tasks to progress on the battle pass is just that: a long list of carrots on sticks for those who are unable or unwilling to just play the content they enjoy for the sake of playing. > > Personally I'd rather have content I can enjoy at my leisure and gain most rewards through a variety of activities (including trading the loot I find to gold to get other things from the trading post) than grind through a pre-defined set of chores. > Yy, you are special and all, cool, but what can they do to get rid of those loot boxes? P.s. I won't be talking about carrots on the sticks because i don't won't to destroy the worlds lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Cherdakuru.5841" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > Your example just agreed with my point. It would involve me paying ANet extra in order to do a chore. I can, if I so choose, currently do chores in gw2 without paying extra. > > How much could I expect ANet to pay me to do that dance thing? Anything less than my hourly rate at my job would be a net loss. I guess I would be willing to do it for somewhere in the $50 per hour range. > But that's not paying for only one chore, that's a multiple chores like that in 10 weeks > Also no one says tasks should be routine > They can be fun and all, and there can be a lot of them if they want > I would pay if they do it because i want to support them financially in their moving to right direction > How is paying for ten unenjoyable chores better than paying for one? If it is to be ten chores then my rate of expected compensation would be multiplied by ten as well. So, if Anet pays me $500 per hour....sure I would do those chores. Hey, I would be able to quit my job at that point. Not sure how ANet would stay in business paying players that much to do chores for them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherdakuru.5841 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > How is paying for ten unenjoyable chores better than paying for one? > If it is to be ten chores then my rate of expected compensation would be multiplied by ten as well. So, if Anet pays me $500 per hour....sure I would do those chores. Hey, I would be able to quit my job at that point. Not sure how ANet would stay in business paying players that much to do chores for them. And yet again, another prophecy, we don't even know what could it be, and we assuming that it will be unenjoyable.. What's that pessimism? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Cherdakuru.5841" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > How is paying for ten unenjoyable chores better than paying for one? > > If it is to be ten chores then my rate of expected compensation would be multiplied by ten as well. So, if Anet pays me $500 per hour....sure I would do those chores. Hey, I would be able to quit my job at that point. Not sure how ANet would stay in business paying players that much to do chores for them. > > And yet again, another prophecy, we don't even know what could it be, and we assuming that it will be unenjoyable.. > What's that pessimism? > > Not pessimism. You have listed examples and described other chores like them. As every example you have given is not fun (to me) and you state that other options would be like those...its not pessimism to say unenjoyable, just accuracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obtena.7952 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Why replace? Why not have both the season pass and the chests+keys? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherdakuru.5841 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Ashen.2907" said: > Not pessimism. You have listed examples and described other chores like them. As every example you have given is not fun (to me) and you state that other options would be like those...its not pessimism to say unenjoyable, just accuracy. I said about that as an example, what it can look like. But it can be different, it can be anything. I won't imagine it for you, personally i would prefer the jumping puzzles, love those things the most at GW2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Cherdakuru.5841" said: > ~Snip~ > Here's another reason it wouldn't work, this is GW2, it is not Fortnite, two(2) completely different games with normally 2 completely different player bases, just because you happen to play both doesn't mean a lot of others do as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ReaverKane.7598 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Elspereth.1280" said: > > @"ReaverKane.7598" said: > > > @"Elspereth.1280" said: > > > One issue is that a fair number of people farm keys instead of buying them. > > > > That would actually be in favour of the season pass, at least for Arena Net. > > The issue is: RNG = more money. > > Season pass would be, what 30€ max? Assuming a Yearly one. > > The one in Fortnite is like 10€. > > > > Now, 10 Black Lion Keys in GW2, that's over 10€. 25 Keys is roughly 25€. > > Do you see how RNG and lootboxes are more profitable? So it's very unlikely that Arena Net will phase out the Black Lion chests, unless a more significant portion of their market goes the way of Belgium, something i'm rooting for. > > I think you are misunderstanding me. Of course loot boxes are more profitable and I for one am actually pro-loot box (edit- at least the way gw2 does it) and against the season pass. > > > > > > @"Elspereth.1280" said: > > > > @"Cherdakuru.5841" said: > > > > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > > > > As it stands a player who opens BLC will eventually get what she wants due to the statuettes included. > > > > > > > > > > I am not opposed to something to replace BLC, I dont like them at all, but paying extra money in order to have to do chores to get desirable rewards seems like paying my boss to be allowed to work for my company. > > > > > > > > You are paying for the extra content here. And for the extra opportunities. > > > > Fortnite as example, since i think it is the best realisation of this model. (could be wrong) > > > > There was danceoff challenge, you needed to get to the dancefloor and make a dance battle with another player. > > > > That is a kind of a mini-game, 2 squares like 3 on 3. When on of those little squares inside turns lights on, you should use dance emote. Longer you stand on it more points you get. Little-squares are constantly changing one after another. > > > > It was challenging, because some players decided that it would be fun to get free kills on the players that are here just for challenge. > > > > And lots of players were they every game. > > > > I mean it is not routine as you would think. Not another type of dailies. > > > > > > Sounds horrible to me, it is something I would actively avoid. > > > > Not has horrible as the thing it would replace though. > > I am not understanding you here, what thing are you talking about? Loot boxes on principle are something that i believe should be eradicated from the industry. If a game wants you to spend money, you should know what you're spending on. Gambling is a problem to many people, and these practices, even the nearly innocuous way that Arena Net does it, exploit that weakness and that addiction on people who are unaware. And while some areas, like Google Play, have warnings and you can put locks on your ability to use microtransactions, overall there's still a lack of mechanisms for people to prevent and/cope with these hidden gambling substitutes. A Season pass that has a clear set of unlocks is by far a less insidious and opaque practice than any kind of loot boxes, hence, what the "season pass" suggestion would replace would be more desirable solution. My reply was just meant to bring some reality into the debate, since it's unlikely that without a significant pressure to release the BLC in a non-"gambly" format, they'll chose to do so on their own volition, since RNG is way more profitable for them. That doesn't mean i condone or support it, especially since when PoF released there was a crescendo of gambling tactics on the game, which is not a good sign for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherdakuru.5841 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > @"Cherdakuru.5841" said: > > ~Snip~ > > > > Here's another reason it wouldn't work, this is GW2, it is not Fortnite, two(2) completely different games with normally 2 completely different player bases, just because you happen to play both doesn't mean a lot of others do as well. > > Why wouldn't it work? And if it wouldn't, what do you think is the possible replacement? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Godrik.5841 Posted December 24, 2018 Share Posted December 24, 2018 Loot boxes is what keeps this game afloat. As soon as it becomes unprofitable nc soft will pull the plug like they did with wildstar and city of heroes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherdakuru.5841 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 > @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said: > Loot boxes is what keeps this game afloat. As soon as it becomes unprofitable nc soft will pull the plug like they did with wildstar and city of heroes. Then they need to find another way to make profit. I'm tired of hearing this mantra. We are almost in 2019 and you are talking about lootboxes as one and only way to make profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magnus Godrik.5841 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 > @"Cherdakuru.5841" said: > > @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said: > > Loot boxes is what keeps this game afloat. As soon as it becomes unprofitable nc soft will pull the plug like they did with wildstar and city of heroes. > > Then they need to find another way to make profit. > I'm tired of hearing this mantra. > We are almost in 2019 and you are talking about lootboxes as one and only way to make profit. The only other way is to do a sub fee. This would probably kill the game all together. No offense but if i had to pay a sub fee i would rather go to WoW or ff7 where there is plenty of content. We dont need this barrier. And besides loot boxes are a staple of mmo's now. Be happy that its just cosmetic/vanity items and not p2w. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherdakuru.5841 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 > @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said: > The only other way is to do a sub fee. This would probably kill the game all together. No offense but if i had to pay a sub fee i would rather go to WoW or ff7 where there is plenty of content. We dont need this barrier. And besides loot boxes are a staple of mmo's now. Be happy that its just cosmetic/vanity items and not p2w. Ok without the sub fee and lootboxes, game will be dead. How could they market their gemshop so people will start actually buying things from it? (assuming they are not buying) Let's assume that there is no more lootboxes here, we are sinking, what should we do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
starhunter.6015 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 > @"Cherdakuru.5841" said: > > @"Magnus Godrik.5841" said: > > The only other way is to do a sub fee. This would probably kill the game all together. No offense but if i had to pay a sub fee i would rather go to WoW or ff7 where there is plenty of content. We dont need this barrier. And besides loot boxes are a staple of mmo's now. Be happy that its just cosmetic/vanity items and not p2w. > Ok without the sub fee and lootboxes, game will be dead. > How could they market their gemshop so people will start actually buying things from it? (assuming they are not buying) > Let's assume that there is no more lootboxes here, we are sinking, what should we do? > Simple, take some of the pre existing outfits and break them up to armor pieces that are sold separately via Gem store. If you notice the out fit Brahm wears currently also offers just the shoulders as armor skin for gems. Even if outfits would allow gloves, shoulders to be hidden that would increase sales. The ability to show our choice of Head, Helm or Outfit-Helm while wearing the outfits. I know many players who would love to wear the outfits but since they can't wear their eyepatch or glasses. They simply just don't buy them. The fact that the BLC are pretty much cosmetic is a plus side, I would not mind if the drop rates for the items where adjusted a bit. Maybe add some more GW1 weapons to the game via the BLC ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherdakuru.5841 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 > @"starhunter.6015" said: > Simple, take some of the pre existing outfits and break them up to armor pieces that are sold separately via Gem store. If you notice the out fit Brahm wears currently also offers just the shoulders as armor skin for gems. Even if outfits would allow gloves, shoulders to be hidden that would increase sales. The ability to show our choice of Head, Helm or Outfit-Helm while wearing the outfits. I know many players who would love to wear the outfits but since they can't wear their eyepatch or glasses. They simply just don't buy them. > The fact that the BLC are pretty much cosmetic is a plus side, I would not mind if the drop rates for the items where adjusted a bit. Maybe add some more GW1 weapons to the game via the BLC ? That changes and use of outfits is a great idea from my perspective But as for lootboxes they are banned at all, like no way to sell randomized rewards, they are gone (in this virtual situation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherdakuru.5841 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 I think we need to look at Fortnite: BR to analyze it and understand what are they doing right. Because that game runs without lootboxes and still making mad revenues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashen.2907 Posted December 25, 2018 Share Posted December 25, 2018 > @"Cherdakuru.5841" said: > > @"Ashen.2907" said: > > Not pessimism. You have listed examples and described other chores like them. As every example you have given is not fun (to me) and you state that other options would be like those...its not pessimism to say unenjoyable, just accuracy. > I said about that as an example, what it can look like. > But it can be different, it can be anything. > I won't imagine it for you, personally i would prefer the jumping puzzles, love those things the most at GW2 > > > I responded to what was presented rather than what was not. I cant really comment on aspects of a suggestion that do not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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