Full Counter: please increase CD to 15 seconds in PvP

[Evolute.6239]

The amount of delulu warriors in here who think Full Counter is balanced in its current form is hilarious.

[Bish.8627]

Its fine as it is

[Amityel.5324]

> @Havok.6073 said:

> Oh look, more whiners come out because they can't work a bit harder for their victories. You CAN avoid full counter, if you are out of options and get hit by one, it's your fault, not the skill's. L2P.

 

you can also avoid scourges aoes......kappa

[Havok.6073]

> @Evolute.6239 said:

> The amount of delulu warriors in here who think Full Counter is balanced in its current form is hilarious.

 

So is the amount of crybabies who can't play.

[Mutaatti.2789]

> @Havok.6073 said:

> > @Evolute.6239 said:

> > The amount of delulu warriors in here who think Full Counter is balanced in its current form is hilarious.

>

> So is the amount of crybabies who can't play.

 

Hmm wonder what your main class is... Sorry can't take you seriously when we all know, you have only selfish thoughts behind that statement.

[Master Ketsu.4569]

> @Evolute.6239 said:

> The amount of delulu warriors in here who think Full Counter is balanced in its current form is hilarious.

 

But I'm a revenant.

 

FC is good for the game because it discourages spam. People who are used to being able to 12345 don't like that and rather than adapting they cry to anet and demand a nerf.

 

Maybe it's because with Rev we already can't spam due to energy so I am already used to this, but I see a gitgud problem much more than a balance problem.

 

Spellbreaker could use a small nerf, but ironically it's not really FC that needs the nerf. It's stances and Last Stand trait giving them 12 seconds of immunities on short cooldowns for no fucking reason. But if you die because you spammed at a warrior to his face and got full countered that's 100% on you for mindlessly spamming skills and lacking awareness. As I've stated in my other thread you can actually pop FC by hitting it then dodging and your evade will activate before the full counter. It's not even a build wars issue *literally a basic combat mechanic that is in the game and available to all builds in all classes at all times hard counters full counter*.

 

[masskillerxploit.2165]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> > The most i would accept is a 10 second CD and have the daze only got the one who triggered it. Anything more and you'll destroy the sped and make it useless in all modes.

>

> This.

>

> People seem to think that Warrior shouldn't be viable. They just don't want to learn how to kite a melee class, so instead they cry and cry until anet nerfs and it becomes a trash class for the next season. This is because warrior is a class that has no stealth and is almost entirely confined to single target melee damage, as opposed to being able to 12345 a billion ranged AoE abilities like many of the other classes. As a result of these limitations, Warrior *has* to be tough to kill or else it immediately becomes fodder.

>

> Hopefully anet has learned to ignore the over-reaction people have this time.

 

I really don't understand why you think warrior is fine as is? its literally skillless right now.. anyone can play spell breaker effectively. Having the full counter on a high cd, or have it be single target vs aoe would make the class more defined and skillful.

[Loop.8106]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > @Zenith.7301 said:

> > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> > > > The most i would accept is a 10 second CD and have the daze only got the one who triggered it. Anything more and you'll destroy the sped and make it useless in all modes.

> > >

> > > This.

> > >

> > > People seem to think that Warrior shouldn't be viable. They just don't want to learn how to kite a melee class, so instead they cry and cry until anet nerfs and it becomes a trash class for the next season. This is because warrior is a class that has no stealth and is almost entirely confined to single target melee damage, as opposed to being able to 12345 a billion ranged AoE abilities like many of the other classes. As a result of these limitations, Warrior *has* to be tough to kill or else it immediately becomes fodder.

> > >

> > > Hopefully anet has learned to ignore the over-reaction people have this time.

> >

> > Yeah, as if any class but thief or druid could actually kite a greatsword warrior. Nobody's buying your BS.

> >

> > A necro isn't going to kite a warrior, a guardian isn't going to kite a warrior. An engineer is not going to kite a warrior, and especially an elementalist isn't going to kite a warrior.

> >

> > Drop the crap.

>

> > @Zenith.7301 said:

> > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > > > @BurrTheKing.8571 said:

> > > > The most i would accept is a 10 second CD and have the daze only got the one who triggered it. Anything more and you'll destroy the sped and make it useless in all modes.

> > >

> > > This.

> > >

> > > People seem to think that Warrior shouldn't be viable. They just don't want to learn how to kite a melee class, so instead they cry and cry until anet nerfs and it becomes a trash class for the next season. This is because warrior is a class that has no stealth and is almost entirely confined to single target melee damage, as opposed to being able to 12345 a billion ranged AoE abilities like many of the other classes. As a result of these limitations, Warrior *has* to be tough to kill or else it immediately becomes fodder.

> > >

> > > Hopefully anet has learned to ignore the over-reaction people have this time.

> >

> > Yeah, as if any class but thief or druid could actually kite a greatsword warrior. Nobody's buying your BS.

> >

> > A necro isn't going to kite a warrior, a guardian isn't going to kite a warrior. An engineer is not going to kite a warrior, and especially an elementalist isn't going to kite a warrior.

> >

> > Drop the crap.

>

> The only class that can't kite is Necro. Guardian doesn't have to.

>

> If you think the other classes you mentioned can't, you don't know how to kite.

>

>

>

 

I've read a bunch of your comments on FC throughout a plethora of threads and this one took the price. Guardians doesnt have to kite warriors?

I'm literally speechless and I don't know where to start, but Ill give it a shot. Guardians have 1 "viable" DPS spec right now, that being the Radiant Hammer build. The build relies on killing the enemy before they kill you. The only defensive capabilities you have are blocks. Zero access to vigor, zero access to skills with evade-frames and zero access to skills that can be used for disengage (with the exception of sword 2 + JI to another hostile target).

Now that you know what the guardian relies on. There is a total of 1 Skill outside of AA that can be used to properly contest a warrior. That being Mighty Blow. Our heal is dependant on us doing damage in order to heal, which is pretty hard considering double endure pain, Full Counter and Shield 5. That's not mentioning Whirlwind Attack and simply kite out with Rush for the 4 seconds the heal actually last.

 

Get your head out of the sand. There is no possible way a Guardian should ever beat a Spellbreaker.

 

Edit: You might have meant it as a Guard doesnt have to kite, they will die regardless. In which case you're absolutly right.

[Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485]

> @"Master Ketsu.4569" said:

> > @Evolute.6239 said:

> > The amount of delulu warriors in here who think Full Counter is balanced in its current form is hilarious.

>

> But I'm a revenant.

>

> FC is good for the game because it discourages spam. People who are used to being able to 12345 don't like that and rather than adapting they cry to anet and demand a nerf.

>

> Maybe it's because with Rev we already can't spam due to energy so I am already used to this, but I see a gitgud problem much more than a balance problem.

>

> Spellbreaker could use a small nerf, but ironically it's not really FC that needs the nerf. It's stances and Last Stand trait giving them 12 seconds of immunities on short cooldowns for no kitten reason. But if you die because you spammed at a warrior to his face and got full countered that's 100% on you for mindlessly spamming skills and lacking awareness. As I've stated in my other thread you can actually pop FC by hitting it then dodging and your evade will activate before the full counter. It's not even a build wars issue *literally a basic combat mechanic that is in the game and available to all builds in all classes at all times hard counters full counter*.

 

I agree, without resistance, spell breaker gets melted. Since Conditions are still king. Resist is the only thing that is keeping warriors from kicking the bucket since everyone is relying on conditions more and more as power is nerfed more and more.

Spellbreaker without falls to most ranged options (every class has them). Plus to get this resistance to high, they do have to give up almost all unitility and build solely around that resistance, and yet again since everyone is overly relying on conditions now it is a problem (which can be avoided by reducing condition use a bit, but still spellbreaker overdoes resist)

 

I mean come on, full counter does not even hit THAT hard unless traited. And part of the problem is that the trait which increases damage (20%) also copies conditions AND grants resistance. If anything I think that they need to take the damage increase off of revenge counter or the resistance as warrior does have pretty good access to resistance already.

 

Spellbreaker honestly will become useless with a 15 second cooldown in all modes.

[Kiritodatrth.1548]

> I'm literally speechless and I don't know where to start, but Ill give it a shot. Guardians have 1 "viable" DPS spec right now, that being the Radiant Hammer build. The build relies on killing the enemy before they kill you. The only defensive capabilities you have are blocks. Zero access to vigor, zero access to skills with evade-frames and zero access to skills that can be used for disengage (with the exception of sword 2 + JI to another hostile target).

 

You have just described any necro in PVP. for 5 years... without blocks to make it even worse...

 

I wanna full counter in ALL CLASSES not only War... that is what is missing... Every class should have access to at least 1 punish ability to avoid spam... therefore I don't see FC as the problem... I thing the concept should be expanded to other classes including guards...

[WolfsFang.2301]

Here we go, once again all the babies cry once warrior gets a build that can compete in PvP. It's called dodge, learn to dodge. Or, learn not to hit a warrior when you see them surrounded by a gold field.

[Mikeskies.1536]

People know that it is an 8 seconds cooldown because it is a Burst right? All Bursts have 8 second cooldowns.

[Fat Disgrace.4275]

> @SPESHAL.9106 said:

> The problem is that it does too many things on such a short cooldown PLUS it's on a profession that already doesn't have to waste a cast on heal. Thus, it makes the profession far too potent for so little skill. The cooldown absolutely needs to change so that there is at least some skill and decision to use it versus just spamming.

 

Theif steal says hi! Even if it's traited look at what it does, and can also proc secondary effects too.

[vaxjani.9073]

But for Steal to have that many effects the meta DD build uses 7 traits just to get those effects (8 if we take lead attacks cd reduction). Without any traits it just steals an item and shadowsteps to the target.

FC blocks 1 hit, does AoE damage if triggered, 100% dmg reduction while blocking, 2s stab, 0.5s evade while counter hitting, AoE daze for 0.5s and is unblockable.

But comparing different professions' skills is a waste anyways.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

Full counter is HoT launch DH traps that also provide resistance, slows on top of daze and are also unbloockable.

 

On a 8 second cooldown.

 

DHs survived 8 straight nerfs to ToF, Warriors can survive equal toning down of FC.

[WolfsFang.2301]

> @Darknicrofia.2604 said:

> Full counter is HoT launch DH traps that also provide resistance, slows on top of daze and are also unbloockable.

>

> On a 8 second cooldown.

>

> DHs survived 8 straight nerfs to ToF, Warriors can survive equal toning down of FC.

 

You have to trait into the slowness and resistance, but nice try lol.

[Kaga.7629]

All those guys coming up in here and complaining instead of trying to evolve their playstyle to not spam everything the moment it becomes available...... Asking for ridiculous nerfs to FC while scourge is still literally 4-button-push melting people off the caps...

 

While Full counter is strong ( and stronger than it should be because people still haven't evolved playstyles after a week) , giving it a 15 second colldown is *not* the answer. Because if you put Full Counter on a 15 second cooldown, then i'm gonna have to ask that *Steal* gets the same punishment, a 15 second cooldown. OH NO? Too unfair ? Too bad. Because that's what this bullpoo gung-ho lynching mob justice would be like if it turned around on thieves. Now that all the "teef" dropped their deadeyes when they couldn't stealth glitch and snipe without being seen.

 

It's been one frikkin week. Until scourge gets shaved to not instantly melt people you can't even begin to start talking about real changes to FC. and a 15 second cooldown is not a real change, it's "WAAAAAA i can't deal" mooing .

 

 

[Darknicrofia.2604]

> @WolfsFang.2301 said:

> > @Darknicrofia.2604 said:

> > Full counter is HoT launch DH traps that also provide resistance, slows on top of daze and are also unbloockable.

> >

> > On a 8 second cooldown.

> >

> > DHs survived 8 straight nerfs to ToF, Warriors can survive equal toning down of FC.

>

> You have to trait into the slowness and resistance, but nice try lol.

 

And DHs had to trait for slow and daze on traps that have 30-60 sec cooldowns.

[Darknicrofia.2604]

> @Kaga.7629 said:

> All those guys coming up in here and complaining instead of trying to evolve their playstyle to not spam everything the moment it becomes available...... Asking for ridiculous nerfs to FC while scourge is still literally 4-button-push melting people off the caps...

>

> While Full counter is strong ( and stronger than it should be because people still haven't evolved playstyles after a week) , giving it a 15 second colldown is *not* the answer. Because if you put Full Counter on a 15 second cooldown, then i'm gonna have to ask that *Steal* gets the same punishment, a 15 second cooldown. OH NO? Too unfair ? Too bad. Because that's what this bullpoo gung-ho lynching mob justice would be like if it turned around on thieves. Now that all the "teef" dropped their deadeyes when they couldn't stealth glitch and snipe without being seen.

>

> It's been one frikkin week. Until scourge gets shaved to not instantly melt people you can't even begin to start talking about real changes to FC. and a 15 second cooldown is not a real change, it's "WAAAAAA i can't deal" mooing .

>

>

 

This sounds more like a "I can't play pvp without my crutch OP skill WAAAA" post.

 

So SBs can mindlessly spam FC in team fights by just derping in random AoE/clones/pets without looking at anything other than their skill bar and still get full benefit of FC procs but every single other class need to 100% pay attention to the SB on top of every thing else going on in the fight or they deserve to eat a 4k unblockable daze/slow condi bomb every 8 seconds?

[Nowaki.2136]

"dodge it" like sure! cuz every single fight in pvp is a 1v1 right? is not like they trigger FC from an aoe field when you're not even looking at them cuz you are focusing "more dangerous classes" as someone stated, and what about their perma anti-condi boon?

[WolfsFang.2301]

> @Darknicrofia.2604 said:

> > @WolfsFang.2301 said:

> > > @Darknicrofia.2604 said:

> > > Full counter is HoT launch DH traps that also provide resistance, slows on top of daze and are also unbloockable.

> > >

> > > On a 8 second cooldown.

> > >

> > > DHs survived 8 straight nerfs to ToF, Warriors can survive equal toning down of FC.

> >

> > You have to trait into the slowness and resistance, but nice try lol.

>

> And DHs had to trait for slow and daze on traps that have 30-60 sec cooldowns.

 

But they don't despawn so you could leave them on a point as protection.

[OriOri.8724]

> @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> People know that it is an 8 seconds cooldown because it is a Burst right? All Bursts have 8 second cooldowns.

 

One could argue that it shouldn't be a burst skill since its always available regardless of what weapon you are using. Burst skills are dependent on the weapon you are using. And before you try to argue that "it uses adrenalie therefore its a burst", berserk used adrenaline as well, yet no one considered it a burst skill. Berserk was a rage skill, so it makes sense that FC should be a meditation skill tbh.

[Mikeskies.1536]

Full > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> > People know that it is an 8 seconds cooldown because it is a Burst right? All Bursts have 8 second cooldowns.

>

> One could argue that it shouldn't be a burst skill since its always available regardless of what weapon you are using. Burst skills are dependent on the weapon you are using. And before you try to argue that "it uses adrenalie therefore its a burst", berserk used adrenaline as well, yet no one considered it a burst skill. Berserk was a rage skill, so it makes sense that FC should be a meditation skill tbh.

 

Full Counter not being a Burst skill would make it lose out on Burst traits. Also, Full Counter is the sacrifice for being limited to Level 1 Bursts and 2 Bars of Adrenaline. Berserk is a Rage skill because it enables the use of Primal Bursts. Full Counter does not enable the use of a new type of Bursts.

[Caedmon.6798]

> @Zenith.7301 said:

> It's absurd, and just hilariously so in WvW. In WvW spellbreakers are pretty much immortal in skirmishes. You need an actual zerg to chase them down and kill them.

 

Yeah counter makes people immortal forever,all of the time 100% immunity always forevers,l2fuckingplay.

 

Fucking hypocrisy is real,thieves defending deadeye doing 20 - 32k dmg with one hit but cry about counter.

 

You can avoid counter in multiple ways,a 32k hit coming from stealth or 1500 range for that matter i smthing different,and no im not crying im laying out an example,incase you're..wondering.

 

@Zintrothen.1056 , And this is what i mean with learn to play,you saying You cannot avoid counter just makes me lol. Theres a clear animation to it,and if youre in a teamfight complaining youve been hit by a skill..Then why do you even pvp ? Because thats not the only thing hitting you.

[Lighter.5631]

CD nerf is over kill, > @vaxjani.9073 said:

> But for Steal to have that many effects the meta DD build uses 7 traits just to get those effects (8 if we take lead attacks cd reduction). Without any traits it just steals an item and shadowsteps to the target.

> FC blocks 1 hit, does AoE damage if triggered, 100% dmg reduction while blocking, 2s stab, 0.5s evade while counter hitting, AoE daze for 0.5s and is unblockable.

> But comparing different professions' skills is a waste anyways.

 

invalid, because you have to spec fully into spellbreaker to get full counter, so you still need a whole line to get the effect