Master Ketsu.4569 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @OriOri.8724 said: > Skills like full counter are not good for the game. You complain about spam, but then go on to sing praises about a skill that is one of the most spammy in the game? Not only does it have a low CD to begin with, but it deals fairly high damage for that CD, deals AoE unblockable damage, AoE unblockable daze, AoE boon strip, gives you power/ferocity from insight, gives you evasion, and gives you stab baseline. Not to mention that it can also be traited to provide protection, resistance, copy 5 conditions to enemies, apply cripple and slow, refreshes burst skills, not to mention can be traited even further via traiting burst skills. > > There are 2 types of spam in games. One is mindlessly spamming your skills off CD. Its indicative of bad play, but not bad balance. The other spam is feature spam, where a single skill can do too many things. This is indicative of bad balance, and is far worse for games than mindless spamming of skills off CD is. Full Counter is, without doubt, one of the most overloaded skills in the entire game when fully traited, and its only on an 8sec base CD. Full counter is the definition of spam, so its highly hypocritical for you to praise it so highly in the same posts where you condemn spam so much. Because full counter is the worst kind of spam. > > If you want to nerf spam that's great, I do too, as spammy skills is one of the worst problems in PvP right now imo. But go after real targets. Skills that are doing too many things, especially when they are on low CDs. Full Counter is the worst of these when you trait it, and even untraited it still does a ton of kitten due to synergy with SB minor traits. You have a twisted understanding of what Spam means. Low CD doesn't mean spam. A skill can have a huge CD and still be spammy because it is used in a 12345 chain. Spam means an ability that can be used in rapid conjunction with other skills *without punishment for misuse.* which results in a meta where players simply run around 12345ing constantly. The best way to understand this is to compare GW2 to another game - Tera Rising. If a Sorcerer in Tera tries to spam Hardcast his AoE bombs at the wrong time, do you know what happens to him? He gets animation locked and disrupted then 100-0d as punishment for being a bad sorc. Now if an Elementalist comes in GW2 on the point and starts spamming AoE lighting, how is he punished for it? Nothing much really. The problem here is GW2 players are entitled. Spam means a skill is too safe and thus can be used without effort. FC is not spam because if the warrior uses it wrong ( or if the enemy isn't an idiot ) it does very little, and then they are punished for it by being a warrior with only level 1 bursts. TL;DR Spam = no risk. FC is actually the opposite of spam, it's anti spam. It carries the risk of doing jack when used randomly, while punishing other players for randomly using abilities. FC only seems like a low risk skill because GW2 is currently in a persistent spam meta due to how the game works. Abilities similar to FC in exist in other action games are not nearly as strong ( even when they do crazier things, like reflect 80% damage and heal you for 80% HP ) simply because those games aren't nearly as infested with spam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amadeus.5687 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 I actually really dig the idea off full counter going on a longer CD if it dosnt trigger! that fixes people spamming it and rewards counterplay! that in combo with the skill not triggering by clones, minions ect and we should be golden for now! would be kinda how chronomancer shield 4 dosnt get a second black if people dont hit you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KryTiKaL.3125 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > @KryTiKaL.3125 said: > > > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > > Arc Diviner does not have a longer cast time than FC. Full Counter's 1.5 sec time is the duration of the skill, not the cast time; the cast is instant. If there is no tell between when the skill activates and when it begins to counter, then it is extremely difficult to predict and evade, especially if this was achieved through anything besides direct skill usage by you. No one is going to be able to react that quickly. Payoff for getting the skill to work is all well and good, but it is beyond easy to do in most situations. > > > > What? No. Go into the PvP lobby and go test it. Get Full Counter to proc and watch for the cast bar when it does. It has a 1 and a half second activation time after the counter attack is triggered, it is **not** instant. You can check for these things yourself extremely easily. To activate the skill it is instant, sure, but the duration is 2 seconds, it just doesn't list it but the activation time of the actual **attack** is 1 and a half seconds. > > I did test this and it most certainly is NOT 2 seconds or 1.5 seconds. That's almost as slow as Drop the Hammer from Revenant (Hammer 5) and we all know how slow that is. If you actually tested this, you would see that there are two activation bars that come up; the first one is the duration of the block, 1.5 seconds, and the second appears after you're attacked and begin the counter attack. It's roughly .5 seconds between the proc and the counter attack. Unless this is some effect under slow, which I am not going to test, then I have no idea where you are getting this from. > > If you were attacked at the absolute last moment possible in the initial phase, which would be 1.5 seconds after you cast it, then the follow up would have taken a total of 2 seconds total from the time you hit f2 to the time you countered. However, if you are attacked instantly after you cast the ability, which is instant cast, then the most time it takes to counter is .5 seconds. > The counter itself is roughly .5 seconds, which is faster than Arc Diviner, the block duration is 1.5 seconds. If it took 2 seconds, or even 1.5 seconds to successfully use FC after you were attacked, then it would be beyond useless. You may be right about it being less than 1 second to **activate**. However I don't think its half of a second, 0.5. It may be more along the lines of Arc Divider at 0.75. Comparing the cast bars they look very similar. However even with that being said I've seen people pretty easily avoid it, and I've avoided it as well. Its noticeable and takes long enough to activate after triggering the counter that its not unreasonable to avoid it. > @Crinn.7864 said: > > @KryTiKaL.3125 said: > > Running Signet of Might with the build would actually remove much of Warrior's anti condi abilities which it desperately needs due to the Cleansing Ire nerfs from the pre-PoF balance patch. > > At no point since 2013 has Cleansing Ire been nerfed. > > Unless you are talking about Berserker's primal bursts being down graded from T3 to T1 bursts, which is literally irrelevant as far as spellbreaker is concerned. > > That is what I'm talking about, and that was a nerf due to the fact that Berserk Mode being activated eats all 3 of your Adrenaline Bars but does not trigger Cleansing Ire, also Primal Burst skills only give 1 stack. With Spellbreaker it is the same. If you have both Adrenaline Bars full you will only get the effect of 1 Adrenaline Bar when triggering Cleansing Ire, granted you can stack Adrenal Health more easily than Berserker due to how Spellbreaker functions but prior to this yes there was a technical "nerf" to how effective Cleansing Ire was with clearing conditions due to this change. Also it isn't irrelevant, one must still actually land Full Counter, and any other subsequent Burst abilities, to actually gain a single stack of Adrenal Health or trigger Cleansing Ire. I'm not saying its weak by any means, but it was changed to function this way due to Spellbreaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenith.7301 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > People know that it is an 8 seconds cooldown because it is a Burst right? All Bursts have 8 second cooldowns. A 1 bar burst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damocles.4908 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Remember, taking Spellbeaker reducing the adrenaline bar, and only lvl 1 burst is available and a few other skills rely on having lvl 3 adrenaline, so it does come at a cost to use it...but seriously "to counter a counter, is to not hit the guy in the first place" and as for counter of "doing to much" being a single ability... I wish my warrior could also have death shroud, spam aoe traps, inflict all the types of conditions, etc, you get the idea...(p.s I use standard warrior build that I make by myself since the start of this game, learn to deal with others abilities) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutaatti.2789 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @masskillerxploit.2165 said: > > @WolfsFang.2301 said: > > > @Arcaedus.7290 said: > > > In this thread: > > > > > > Most people: Please, small nerfs to full counter to balance it in pvp/wvw. > > > > > > Some of the people: Idk how full counter works, but it's kinda op, pls nerf. > > > > Warrior mains: Hurr durr durrr, stop spamming your skills, full counter is fine, l2p scrubs. > > > ... so spot on You know he was being sarcastic? Meaning the idiots complsining are actually spellbreaker players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 Let me get this straight... After a full year of warriors being the fodder of wvw and the laughing stock of spvp, you guys are mad that now for 2 weeks we are actually experiencing what you had for a YEAR? "Waaahhh we are not the UltraOP anymore, now because we aren't at the top we decided it's not fair" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutaatti.2789 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > Let me get this straight... After a full year of warriors being the fodder of wvw and the laughing stock of spvp, you guys are mad that now for 2 weeks we are actually experiencing what you had for a YEAR? > > "Waaahhh we are not the UltraOP anymore, now because we aren't at the top we decided it's not fair" Just look at metabattle.com it has only one build in PvP meta. What's that? Your build. Wonder why not scourge? Because it's actually killable spec and dealing massive damage just like Spellbreaker but scourge has no survavibility. And btw warriors were in meta last 2 seasons before PoF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > I'm afraid I disagree that we need more anti spam mechanics in place, rather I think the ability to spam such things in the first place needs to be addressed primarily. That's impossible and makes zero sense due to the fact that the entire reason spam can exist is when nothing punishes it. Any ability can be spam if it can't be punished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Mutaatti.2789 said: > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > Let me get this straight... After a full year of warriors being the fodder of wvw and the laughing stock of spvp, you guys are mad that now for 2 weeks we are actually experiencing what you had for a YEAR? > > > > "Waaahhh we are not the UltraOP anymore, now because we aren't at the top we decided it's not fair" > > Just look at metabattle.com it has only one build in PvP meta. What's that? Your build. > > And btw warriors were in meta last 2 seasons before PoF. I use a core build. Try again. And why do you tell lies on the internet? War was in no uncertain terms laughed out of the tournament scene, platinum division, and if I'm not mistaken, in top 250 only 5 are warriors. Try again. "Wahhh I'm not the faceroll class anymore! Foul! Foul!" "Only I'M allowed to be OP" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trigr.6481 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 My personal suggestion with full counter is that it should only do damage to the person that first triggers it, therefore making it single target. In a mid fight with all the pixel porn going on it's fairly easy to get off, making the mechanic almost gimmicky to use in terms of how easy it is in that situation. This way spellbreaker will still be a beast in a 1v1 scenario, however in a mid fight full counter will lose its aoe effectiveness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mutaatti.2789 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > @Mutaatti.2789 said: > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > Let me get this straight... After a full year of warriors being the fodder of wvw and the laughing stock of spvp, you guys are mad that now for 2 weeks we are actually experiencing what you had for a YEAR? > > > > > > "Waaahhh we are not the UltraOP anymore, now because we aren't at the top we decided it's not fair" > > > > Just look at metabattle.com it has only one build in PvP meta. What's that? Your build. > > > > And btw warriors were in meta last 2 seasons before PoF. > > I use a core build. Try again. > > And why do you tell lies on the internet? War was in no uncertain terms laughed out of the tournament scene, platinum division, and if I'm not mistaken, in top 250 only 5 are warriors. > > Try again. > > "Wahhh I'm not the faceroll class anymore! Foul! Foul!" > > "Only I'M allowed to be OP" Core warrior? Then why would you even care about spellbreaker? :D and no, my class or anyones class shouldn't be unkillable 1v1 while killing people easily. So if you are bunker, you dont die, but you wont kill. If you are dps you die easily but you kill easily (if not bunker). If you are hybrid you do decent bothly, so you dont die easily,but you dont kill easily. What is Spellbreaker now? None of above. It doesnt die (bunker) and kills easily (except bunkers) so dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Omar Aschi Popp.7496 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Mutaatti.2789 said: > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > @Mutaatti.2789 said: > > > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > > > Let me get this straight... After a full year of warriors being the fodder of wvw and the laughing stock of spvp, you guys are mad that now for 2 weeks we are actually experiencing what you had for a YEAR? > > > > > > > > "Waaahhh we are not the UltraOP anymore, now because we aren't at the top we decided it's not fair" > > > > > > Just look at metabattle.com it has only one build in PvP meta. What's that? Your build. > > > > > > And btw warriors were in meta last 2 seasons before PoF. > > > > I use a core build. Try again. > > > > And why do you tell lies on the internet? War was in no uncertain terms laughed out of the tournament scene, platinum division, and if I'm not mistaken, in top 250 only 5 are warriors. > > > > Try again. > > > > "Wahhh I'm not the faceroll class anymore! Foul! Foul!" > > > > "Only I'M allowed to be OP" > > Core warrior? Then why would you even care about spellbreaker? :D and no, my class or anyones class shouldn't be unkillable 1v1 while killing people easily. So if you are bunker, you dont die, but you wont kill. If you are dps you die easily but you kill easily (if not bunker). If you are hybrid you do decent bothly, so you dont die easily,but you dont kill easily. > > What is Spellbreaker now? None of above. It doesnt die (bunker) and kills easily (except bunkers) so dps. I care because you are complaining about something that affects my class and the people who play it. Just because I don't use SB doesn't mean I'm going to let you be silly. Where were you the when warrior was made the most unwanted class last season? Because I sure didn't see you calling for thief nerfs. I didn't see you calling for druid nerfs. You weren't there calling for engi nerfs. You weren't crying for reaper nerfs. Tell me, in all your benevolence why did you not come to warriors defence when our class was nerfed into the ground? Naw you were too busy getting free rank. And now we're slaughtering you. Literally this is a QQ thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hana.8143 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 The problem is indeed the CD. Yes you can dodge / don't hit and let the SB waste his FC (even if you'll always end up hitting him by accident since you need to put pressure on him, and at some point, SB are not stoupidos, they'll just wait the right moment to use it) Now, being able to use a skill correctly doesn't mean it's broken, but the CD seems so wrong. For what FC does, 8sec is ridiculously low. - block - throw back the damage - cc - apply resistance - apply slow - apply cripple - AND COPY YOUR CONDITIONS ON THE ENEMY It's too much for a 8sec CD, it's not balanced. Don't get me wrong, I'll totally play SB cause the condi meta is shit, and finally having a class totally immun to condition by having a perma resistance is great. But it just doesn't fit the pvp scene right now and is off-chart. You can't expect someone to do almost everything with a single skill. I tried to play a condi weaver against a SB, and I didn't survive. The guy didn't take any damage, and I was the one suffering from my own conditions. I switched to power build, and we negate each others since weaver has a good sustain and SB couldn't throw any conditions at me. But since FC has such a low CD, I had to take : Arcane Shield / Earth Armor / Twist of fate (which are all break stuns, twist of fate being a 2 charges Breakstun) I also needed air line for the auto Shoking aura, in order to stop (sometimes) that SB when he stunned me (and trust me, the amount of stab they get is once again ridiculous) FC provide too much cc and bonuses, and if you play some classes (once again, I'm a weaver so let's talk about the weaver) you have skills you need to use and can't interrupt (primordial stance, 5sec of conditions and a bit of damage) which can be easily used by SB to use properly FC. I wish they didn't f*cked up primordial stance. I wouldn't complain about how stoupidos this skill is when you're fighting SB... Primordial stance is basically saying to any SB : "Come use FC, you have 5sec, plenty of time" Some great PvP players agree that SB is too strong if you look at the overall damage and the survivability they have, and FC is one of the reason they are so tanky. And : I don't care about the damage, I'm here to talk about how defensive this skill is. Warrior has always hit like a truck so... But block + resistance + cc + copy conditions with a 8sec cd, just no no no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loop.8106 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Damocles.4908 said: > Remember, taking Spellbeaker reducing the adrenaline bar, and only lvl 1 burst is available and a few other skills rely on having lvl 3 adrenaline, so it does come at a cost to use it...but seriously "to counter a counter, is to not hit the guy in the first place" and as for counter of "doing to much" being a single ability... I wish my warrior could also have death shroud, spam aoe traps, inflict all the types of conditions, etc, you get the idea...(p.s I use standard warrior build that I make by myself since the start of this game, learn to deal with others abilities) You're just batantly wrong. DH's run a total of 1 damaging trap, that being Test of Faith. This being on a 30 second cooldown untraited and a 24 (correct me if I'm wrong) traited. You can use 4 Full Counters in the meantime AND use the trap to proc Full Counter in the first place. So stop spewing lies in order to defend a clearly overpowered mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witcher.3197 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Damocles.4908 said: > I wish my warrior could also (...) inflict all the types of conditions Spellbreaker copies 5 conditions every 6-8 seconds in AoE plus cripple and slow, and that's just as an added bonus on a power build, I mean lmao do you need to copy 10 conditions twice, or? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > FC is good for the game because it discourages spam. To bad its on the tankiest class in the game that require you to spam everything at them just to break through the hp regen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > > I'm afraid I disagree that we need more anti spam mechanics in place, rather I think the ability to spam such things in the first place needs to be addressed primarily. > > That's impossible and makes zero sense due to the fact that the entire reason spam can exist is when nothing punishes it. Any ability can be spam if it can't be punished. > > Apply your logic of being unpunishable and suddenly FC is a spam ability; no, avoiding it is not punishment because at worst you're both put back at square zero and you just start over. Pulm Impact was supposed to be an anti spam mechanic as well which required more strict criteria that FC, and yet it was massively Op. With FC you press one button and get a multitude of positive effects with no risk whatsoever. If you want to argue counter mechanics are good and necessary, fine; we can have that conversation. But Full Counter is blatantly too strong in its current form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falan.1839 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > Let me get this straight... After a full year of warriors being the fodder of wvw and the laughing stock of spvp, you guys are mad that now for 2 weeks we are actually experiencing what you had for a YEAR? > > "Waaahhh we are not the UltraOP anymore, now because we aren't at the top we decided it's not fair" Laughing Stock of PvP with Zerk Core Gs/Axe before Pof that had at least 2 warrs in top 10 through SoloQ, a spec that skill crushes most opponents. Before that the Mace/Gs Zerk Berserker was at least as bad, slightly less Dps but fucktons of CCs and one of the strongest builds in the game at that point. I'm not even going to talk about WvW where Warrs still have the ridiculous 4 Sec Double Endure Pain + the unnerfed AH and crush virtually everything (except necs which are similarly broken). Right now as an Engi Ranked at Plat3 is basically unplayable, because in every game I will face at least 3 Spellbreaker/Scourges, which both render me more or less useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeskies.1536 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > > > > I'm afraid I disagree that we need more anti spam mechanics in place, rather I think the ability to spam such things in the first place needs to be addressed primarily. > > > > That's impossible and makes zero sense due to the fact that the entire reason spam can exist is when nothing punishes it. Any ability can be spam if it can't be punished. > > > > > > Apply your logic of being unpunishable and suddenly FC is a spam ability; no, avoiding it is not punishment because at worst you're both put back at square zero and you just start over. > > Pulm Impact was supposed to be an anti spam mechanic as well which required more strict criteria that FC, and yet it was massively Op. > > With FC you press one button and get a multitude of positive effects with no risk whatsoever. If you want to argue counter mechanics are good and necessary, fine; we can have that conversation. But Full Counter is blatantly too strong in its current form. I don't think it's Full Counter. I think its Revenge Counter plus Scourge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > > > > > > I'm afraid I disagree that we need more anti spam mechanics in place, rather I think the ability to spam such things in the first place needs to be addressed primarily. > > > > > > That's impossible and makes zero sense due to the fact that the entire reason spam can exist is when nothing punishes it. Any ability can be spam if it can't be punished. > > > > > > > > > > Apply your logic of being unpunishable and suddenly FC is a spam ability; no, avoiding it is not punishment because at worst you're both put back at square zero and you just start over. > > > > Pulm Impact was supposed to be an anti spam mechanic as well which required more strict criteria that FC, and yet it was massively Op. > > > > With FC you press one button and get a multitude of positive effects with no risk whatsoever. If you want to argue counter mechanics are good and necessary, fine; we can have that conversation. But Full Counter is blatantly too strong in its current form. > > I don't think it's Full Counter. I think its Revenge Counter plus Scourge. pretty much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CutesySylveon.8290 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > > > > > > I'm afraid I disagree that we need more anti spam mechanics in place, rather I think the ability to spam such things in the first place needs to be addressed primarily. > > > > > > That's impossible and makes zero sense due to the fact that the entire reason spam can exist is when nothing punishes it. Any ability can be spam if it can't be punished. > > > > > > > > > > Apply your logic of being unpunishable and suddenly FC is a spam ability; no, avoiding it is not punishment because at worst you're both put back at square zero and you just start over. > > > > Pulm Impact was supposed to be an anti spam mechanic as well which required more strict criteria that FC, and yet it was massively Op. > > > > With FC you press one button and get a multitude of positive effects with no risk whatsoever. If you want to argue counter mechanics are good and necessary, fine; we can have that conversation. But Full Counter is blatantly too strong in its current form. > > I don't think it's Full Counter. I think its Revenge Counter plus Scourge. That's a fair point, but I personally think FC at its most basic is still a bit over tuned. A reasonable consideration would be a cooldown increase of some small amount so it retains its punishment but reducing how easily available it is. When it comes to traits, Revenge Counter, Guard Counter, Slow Counter and both minors stack up to a really overloaded skill. Split Revenge Counter up so that all of the effects of it aren't accessible all at once, but still optional, and it would be a reasonable change without butchering anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikeskies.1536 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > @Mikeskies.1536 said: > > > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > > > @"Master Ketsu.4569" said: > > > > > @CutesySylveon.8290 said: > > > > > > > > > I'm afraid I disagree that we need more anti spam mechanics in place, rather I think the ability to spam such things in the first place needs to be addressed primarily. > > > > > > > > That's impossible and makes zero sense due to the fact that the entire reason spam can exist is when nothing punishes it. Any ability can be spam if it can't be punished. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Apply your logic of being unpunishable and suddenly FC is a spam ability; no, avoiding it is not punishment because at worst you're both put back at square zero and you just start over. > > > > > > Pulm Impact was supposed to be an anti spam mechanic as well which required more strict criteria that FC, and yet it was massively Op. > > > > > > With FC you press one button and get a multitude of positive effects with no risk whatsoever. If you want to argue counter mechanics are good and necessary, fine; we can have that conversation. But Full Counter is blatantly too strong in its current form. > > > > I don't think it's Full Counter. I think its Revenge Counter plus Scourge. > > That's a fair point, but I personally think FC at its most basic is still a bit over tuned. A reasonable consideration would be a cooldown increase of some small amount so it retains its punishment but reducing how easily available it is. > > When it comes to traits, Revenge Counter, Guard Counter, Slow Counter and both minors stack up to a really overloaded skill. Split Revenge Counter up so that all of the effects of it aren't accessible all at once, but still optional, and it would be a reasonable change without butchering anything. Revenge Counter is overloaded with 20% damage increase plus Condition Copying plus Resistance. I'd remove the 20% damage increase, and reduce the Resistance to 1 sec per copied condition. 10 seconds of resistance is too much for an 8 second skill. I don't find Full Counter all that punishing when using a power build against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ivantreil.3092 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 The problem im seeing here is that, FC simply filled the remaining weaknesses that the ol' Zerk Berserk build had. Warrior already had a great Stability, hp regen, immunity, great resistance duration, and a great blocking with shield, specially against range. FC just gave Warrior the remaining component for being a monster, a non-telegraphed cc, wich also is an offensive-defensive skill, meaning that it can help shorter the gaps between the cd's of his already used defenses that i just mentioned before. The opportunity of windows for damage a warrior... is so tight right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Mutaatti.2789 said: > > @"Omar Aschi Popp.7496" said: > > Let me get this straight... After a full year of warriors being the fodder of wvw and the laughing stock of spvp, you guys are mad that now for 2 weeks we are actually experiencing what you had for a YEAR? > > > > "Waaahhh we are not the UltraOP anymore, now because we aren't at the top we decided it's not fair" > > Just look at metabattle.com it has only one build in PvP meta. What's that? Your build. Wonder why not scourge? Because it's actually killable spec and dealing massive damage just like Spellbreaker but scourge has no survavibility. > > And btw warriors were in meta last 2 seasons before PoF. warrior was no where near meta last 2 seasons before pof. also spellbreaker is balanced in most 1v1 what makes it annoying is the ability to survive 1v2 1v3, but not with a scourge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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