Where are the mount skeptics from the old forums?

[Tekey.7946]

The whole discussion about mounts seems to have shifted 180 degrees since Path of Fire.

In the old forums there were lots of people opposed to mounts **in general**. As well as people who said they're alright with mounts as long as they're **pure cosmetic items**.

Or if they add the common **25% or 33% speed buff** - to get rid of the signets in your builds.

 

Other than one thread (which dealt more with the griffon in particular), I couldn't see many people that are opposed to mounts anymore.

I know there are several people who first thought mounts weren't a good idea but then changed their minds about it when they saw them (because of their special implementation and abilities in GW2). But I don't believe that **every single one** of them (hundreds or thousands of people) **drastically changed their minds** about them and no skeptics remained.

There were people who didn't want to see mounts at all and now we even have a griffon being able to fly infinitely if you do it right. Did they leave the game? Did they just accept it?

 

This is not a thread to discuss the features in general since they're already fully implemented now.

I just want to undestand the shift of opinions that happened within an **extremely short amount of time** - I just can't explain it by myself.

**Are there still any mount skeptics left?**

[Lambent.6375]

Maybe vocal minority and groupthink.

 

https://forum-en.guildwars2.com/forum/game/gw2/Mounts-merged

[Khisanth.2948]

Still here but now that the rice is cooked and the poor horse has been beaten into a paste what is the point of saying repeating? The controls are still sluggish and clumsy. They went ahead and made large empty maps while reducing the number of waypoints. ANet didn't care before why would they start caring about that now?

[Goettel.4389]

My guess is they're enjoying their mounts too much to roam the forums ;-)

[Ryvaken.3261]

They control like a drunk motorcycle, the camera hates you from the moment you get on them, the animation is both annoying and dumb, the attack skills are basically pointless, the implementation is awkward, they look ugly, and they gate content to force you to keep playing in this travesty of Guild Wars history to build up masteries AGAIN.

 

But who cares? As long as the unwashed masses have new things to show off and grind for, that's the majority of the playerbase. People that actually want quality can suck it.

[Opopanax.1803]

My guess is banned for posting negative feedback.

[LightningWolfTigerBear.672]

Some no doubt had a change of opinion after actually roaming around on their Dinos for a bit. Others said their peace and understand there's little point in beating a dead horse, while others no doubt found something new to complain about.

 

My question: Why so much **emphasis**?

 

> @Ryvaken.3261 said:

> As long as the unwashed masses have new things to show off and grind for, that's the majority of the playerbase. People that actually want quality can suck it.

 

Jesus, I can see you're salty but God damn get over yourself.

 

 

[Adenin.5973]

> @Ryvaken.3261 said:

> They control like a drunk motorcycle, the camera hates you from the moment you get on them, the animation is both annoying and kitten, the attack skills are basically pointless, the implementation is awkward, they look ugly, and they gate content to force you to keep playing in this travesty of Guild Wars history to build up masteries AGAIN.

>

> But who cares? As long as the unwashed masses have new things to show off and grind for, that's the majority of the playerbase. People that actually want quality can suck it.

 

Don't agree with a single thing you said.

 

Controls are awesome for the mounts, they feel heavy enough but the player can still do pretty precise maneuvers.

 

Camera handling feels pretty smooth.

 

I only know of one MMORPG that has such outstanding and amazing mount animations, and this game has only standard horses or horse like creatures: "Black Desert Online". Anet has really done an amazing job on mount animations, especially considering their old engine. Show me any MMO where mounts are better animated.

 

Attack skills are almost as important as the different movement skills.

Raptor pulls everything to one point, super useful

Bunny has a knockdown, strongest break bar dmg from all mounts, good skill

Jackal pumps out 7k+ Barrier for you and all your allies and has an area blind, again super useful

Skimmer heals and partially revives allies, not really that useful when you're doing solo/open world stuff

Griffon, flat dmg, highest dmg of all mounts, why not?

 

From all 5 mounts, 3 have super useful skills, 1 (griffon) has a bland one and the skimmer skill is not great for soloing stuff. I am pretty satisfied with that.

 

"Implementation is awkward"? Not any argument.

 

"They look ugly." Couldn't disagree more, but probably depends.

 

"They gate content" uhh, there are very very few major MMOs that gate content behind so little effort. You do realize that you only need rank 3 on a few mounts to get to 100% of the content. I will never understand people that demand new content and features and then cry about getting said new content and features. What would you prefer, paragon points like in Diablo, new level cap like in WoW, nothing at all? What is it that you want as masteries? Because whenever we get masteries that are not needed to progress people cry about how useless they are and whenever content gets "gated" people like you cry again because they actually have to play the game. You need to only play 2hrs and do bounties in a group to get the XP for the 4 base mounts to rank 3+ and another 2hrs to collect the points. That's all that's needed for the entire expansion., 4 hrs for an MMORPG. In other games you wouldn't even have reached the new level cap to start equipping your character for the next 1-2 months so you can do the new raids.

 

"People that actually want quality can suck it."

You want quality mastery points? You don't want any mastery points? You want something completely different?

I have no clue what you're meaning by that and this is exactly the problem with such comments like yours they don't amount or contribute to anything.

[Drarnor Kunoram.5180]

I can't speak for others, but as for myself, I'd have to say that I was only thinking about how mounts are handled in other games. Mounts in GW2 were handled **right**. Yeah, they're a speed boost, but between the unique handling and the utilitarian focus, ANet definitely built the best mount system in gaming today.

[Aleksander Suburb.4287]

Pets are cool in wide areas like elona. They're acceptable in open maps in tyria. And they're annoying like we said in every town. Especially in the portal areas with all merchants, which are covered by pets that will look like pink emo unicorns with the next shop-update.

[PaxTheGreatOne.9472]

Still here. I actually posted about mounts in the OFFICIAL PATH OF FIRE FEEDBACK THREAD (page 4)

 

This is what I said:

 

> @PaxTheGreatOne.9472 said:

> PoF might be a nice addition in gamearea, and bounties are an interesting addition for the casual player, but I find mounts and tyo a lesser extent bounties problematic .

>

> I've mapped all 5 maps on my main, I am at 257 mastery, and I have no wish to continue, cause it feels empty.

> Old maps feel empty, and PoF feels empty even though the maps are crowded with groups zerging bounties.

>

> * The mounts, however beautiful, have destroyed all distance and hindrances in verticality in open world....

> * Mounts are upsetting vanilla a lot. Maps have become small and trivial and seem to have lost both the movement needs and mechanics and the feel of openess

> * The Griffin bugs often in flight in vanilla maps freezing both me and my mount and dropping to the floor (happens often if not allways with speedboost) making it an unreliable tool. for 250 gold and so much more effort you cold have expected a mount which doesn't freeze in Vanilla (swoop, travel and freeze)

> * Reaching hard places for masteries, vista's and chests EVERYWHERE are now just a swap to the springer and this has removed the need to think.

> * Crossing large area's can be done with the raptor or the jackal making distances trivial. They also make ENEMIES trivial as the skip is more time-efficient then a dismount for a kill. Even with enemies having full xp stacked cause everyone just runs past them there is no reason to step off and engage 'm.....

> * I personally like the skimmer best, it doesn't seem so broken, but water expanses , lava, quicksand, sulfurpools all lost their value. They do no longer ask for me to be aware of my surroundings, or observe the map for dangers.....

> * The Griffon however beautiful is a nice addition, but completely destroys any replayability of any content except the area's in jumping puzzles. (where it or other mounts aren't allowed)

> * The brilliance of the Heart of Thorns gliding system has been overwhelmed by the complete and utter destruction wreaked by mounted movement.

> * I find most of my older character with map completion in Vanilla and partial or complete HoT have no need to go to POF now the masteries have been unlcoked and the elite specialisations have been unlocked, none at all.

> * No replayability means no need to bring alts. No need for alts means no wish to add more game time after the basic collections have been met. I find myself at an impasse where I no longer have any need to continue. Whereas HoT brought meta's and the wish to continue to explore PoF feels empty. Even with the lartgest maps it feels small.

> * I feel saddened by the introduction of mounts in the end, and I feel my feeling about mounts have come true. They have indeed destroyed the explorability.

> * The story is nice and feels more complete and structured then HoT ever did. It is however difficult to get your progress broken down, except for DC's...

>

> * I had hoped for a Gate of Torment option to venture into other area's to have places i couldn't go with mounts and to fight either instanced or non instanced battles versus fierce enemies. The forgotten and the resting place of Abbadon.... I want to look beyond but have not found beyond,.... The gate of torment wold have been a nice addition to the expansion.

>

> The expansion is beautiful, but after 1 week of playing it feels complete. PoF ,however beautiful, left the game dumbed down and merly a collection effort.

>

> Suggested changes?

> * Mount acces from vanilla and HoT should be removed. The content will be valuable again. Even in PoF mounts feel broken.

> * Remove mounts from cities, make nice stables for mounts around the area's. They have no use in cities and clutter a lot.

> * Mount Speed needs to be reduced. Give 'm 50% speed boost max, and make sure the slow down in combat (when hit, or affected by conditions), let them lose 33% and fall to 100%...

> * Mounts are not affected by cripples, chills or other movement impairing things. Fix this.

> * Mounts can be invulnerable passing any and all groups of mobs with the present trait system...which is broken as well. Fix this as well.

> * Griffon is broken with the mount stalling everywhere. This is bad. Even though I like the feel of flying the fact the mechanics of traits do not function... well is bad.

> * The lack of any meta, Instanced content or large boss events other then the bounty zerg fests prove to be boring and tiresome very fast.

>

> Request:

> * Make me the Vortex, and bring me into The REALM OF TORMENT! I'm in the desolation so It should be there.

> https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Realm_of_Torment

>

> Mounts have not proven themselves to be an improvement on Guild Wars 2 in my opinion. Even if my opinion is impopular I'll stand by it.

> Mount are however, very beautiful, very well animated and have distinct personalities.

>

> A veteran since 2012.

 

I am... still sceptical, and still not so happy about mounts.

 

I can now do a berry farm run in under 4 minutes. map mapping (waypoints and poi's,not inlcuding time for hero points) takes lesst then 25% of the time it did before making the maps of PoF nice and big, but all other content 25% of the original size.... I'm mostly into instanced content... luckily...

 

I have a feeling of: "I told you so.", I have tried my best and failed. And I hope all people really wanting mounts are happy the time to do content in this game has been reduced to 40% of the original time it took at launch. The game has become so much smaller due to the expansion imploding the game....

 

 

[mXz.4512]

> @"Drarnor Kunoram.5180" said:

> I can't speak for others, but as for myself, I'd have to say that I was only thinking about how mounts are handled in other games. Mounts in GW2 were handled **right**. Yeah, they're a speed boost, but between the unique handling and the utilitarian focus, ANet definitely built the best mount system in gaming today.

 

Yep, I was against the idea at first for the longest time since launch, but seeing as Anet took **this** approach to mounts versus the mindless and effortless travel/flying as seen in some MMOs - I don't mind anymore. I particularly like how they specialize each one with one strength rather than letting all of them do anything. So aslong as they don't change current mechanics and maybe improve on any bit of clunkiness then no complaints here.

[Zacchary.6183]

> @Tekey.7946 said:

> The whole discussion about mounts seems to have shifted 180 degrees since Path of Fire.

> In the old forums there were lots of people opposed to mounts **in general**. As well as people who said they're alright with mounts as long as they're **pure cosmetic items**.

> Or if they add the common **25% or 33% speed buff** - to get rid of the signets in your builds.

>

> Other than one thread (which dealt more with the griffon in particular), I couldn't see many people that are opposed to mounts anymore.

> I know there are several people who first thought mounts weren't a good idea but then changed their minds about it when they saw them (because of their special implementation and abilities in GW2). But I don't believe that **every single one** of them (hundreds or thousands of people) **drastically changed their minds** about them and no skeptics remained.

> There were people who didn't want to see mounts at all and now we even have a griffon being able to fly infinitely if you do it right. Did they leave the game? Did they just accept it?

>

> This is not a thread to discuss the features in general since they're already fully implemented now.

> I just want to undestand the shift of opinions that happened within an **extremely short amount of time** - I just can't explain it by myself.

> **Are there still any mount skeptics left?**

 

There still is, but here is the thing. Before maps like the ones provided by HoT and PoF, the skeptics' views remained valid. Too many waypoints and too much access to swiftness made mounts an obnoxious vanity item. Now when you look at PoF maps there are only like 2-3 waypoints and half of the areas you need to get to are blocked off without the right mount. Mounts now have purpose. What you seem to not understand is that while you got your mounts, the skeptics won anyways.

[Vissarion.6509]

> @PaxTheGreatOne.9472 said:

> . The game has become so much smaller due to the expansion imploding the game....

>

 

It's been 5 years, do you think all the veterans that play all those years care about map completion? xD

 

I mean i did it twice all those years and still find it tedious. At least now with mounts, it's faster and more enjoyable.

 

New players will still need to do map completion without mounts anyway.

 

[Abakk.9176]

I still believe the game doesn't need it and i can't believe they threw away their initial originality.

 

Its a different game now, but i still enjoy it enough to keep playing.

 

I think the way they engineered it is its saving grace. Even the Griffon needs constant skilled input from the players.

 

But they very much look out of place in all pre-PoF content.

 

It would have been more fun to me if they expanded Gliding a bit and added that Griffon-tech there.

[stone cold.8609]

Since you asked, I'm still here and still not a fan of their addition to the game or the way the maps were made larger with fewer waypoint to justify them. At least the mounts aren't only for vanity, since some areas are gated without having the proper mount(s).

[PaxTheGreatOne.9472]

> @Vissarion.6509 said:

> > @PaxTheGreatOne.9472 said:

> > . The game has become so much smaller due to the expansion imploding the game....

> >

>

> It's been 5 years, do you think all the veterans that play all those years care about map completion? xD

>

> I mean i did it twice all those years and still find it tedious. At least now with mounts, it's faster and more enjoyable.

>

> New players will still need to do map completion without mounts anyway.

 

I'm a vet yes. but I also consider the newer players. They do not have to do map completion without mounts. Just use lvl 80 boos, jump into PoF and do it afterwards.

I have done map completion 9 or 10 times. I have all waypooints unlocked on 12 other characters. All my 24 characters have full HoT elite specs... I think most if not all my characters have been in Dragon Stand ... I have been playing a lot of hours. I found it worthwhile...

 

It's like this comparison: Sightseeing from the car is the same as on foot.

But I'm a person who prefers on foot over the car. Maybe cause I have time.

 

And map completion should mean something. Not the gold star... It means you have been and visited everywhere and did everything and saw everything...

You can go everywhere on griffon as well. If you dive down and use the speed buff.,.. you can map even faster. You can do everything, I doubt however you'll see everything.

 

Just stating all old content is well just too much work or uninteresting means this is a way of destroying the importance of the game before PoF which is still the 85% of the game more even considering there's no meta's and other things to do then picking up your to-do-list and grabbing another one when done. The game has been demoted from explorers, warriors and casters fighting Epic Bosses to a mounted gang trying out to be a hit squad. Mounts are part of this demise. The WvW zerg fest invaded PvE, without the WVW-ers...

[Dante.1763]

I mean...we are still here...

 

My main concern with mounts never came to be, so whats the point of bitching more?

[OrbitalButt.5708]

I want to **play** with the **bold** button **too**

 

I was skeptical about mounts. The rabbit is still hopelessly goofy to me but otherwise I can take or leave them

[Tumult.2578]

Personally, I'd expect many of those non mount players are taking some time off. To make an accurate, unbiased comment here would require PoF owners to play a few days in Core Tyria without mounts. That way they would see things that are happening to non mount players. For example, doing the Teq World boss fight now consists of being constantly trampled or having several mounts standing on top of you, obstructing your view, and then when Teq arrives and those same players miss time their jump or dodge and are downed, they yell at you for not instantly rezzing them. Having to defend the batteries seems to have become a perfect example of pay to win because there is no way a non mount player can do equal damage to Teq and then get to the batteries and do equal damage there too and get back again. The mount speed difference is massive and allows doing more damage, for longer periods, and still get back in time to beat the non mount players back.

While this should be fine in PoF maps, but I'm afraid it will destroy cooperative PvE if it remains unchanged. If you think this inaccurate, please try it without mounts and watch all the mounted players way off ahead of you in the distance already doing damage.

I'm not trying to imply a problem with mounts or that they shouldn't be in the game. I'm saying if they are going to be allowed in core Tyria and Hot, and affect everyone everywhere, then there needs to be a way to reach the same speeds without mounts, in core Tyria and Hot maps. I do not understand how the speed difference can be considered acceptable. I am unsure whether a generic mount being added to the game for all players to obtain would be an acceptable solution at this point but I strongly hope they are working on a fair response to this issue.

[Nury.3062]

> @Tumult.2578 said:

> Personally, I'd expect many of those non mount players are taking some time off. To make an accurate, unbiased comment here would require PoF owners to play a few days in Core Tyria without mounts. That way they would see things that are happening to non mount players. For example, doing the Teq World boss fight now consists of being constantly trampled or having several mounts standing on top of you, obstructing your view, and then when Teq arrives and those same players miss time their jump or dodge and are downed, they yell at you for not instantly rezzing them. Having to defend the batteries seems to have become a perfect example of pay to win because there is no way a non mount player can do equal damage to Teq and then get to the batteries and do equal damage there too and get back again. The mount speed difference is massive and allows doing more damage, for longer periods, and still get back in time to beat the non mount players back.

> While this should be fine in PoF maps, but I'm afraid it will destroy cooperative PvE if it remains unchanged. If you think this inaccurate, please try it without mounts and watch all the mounted players way off ahead of you in the distance already doing damage.

> I'm not trying to imply a problem with mounts or that they shouldn't be in the game. I'm saying if they are going to be allowed in core Tyria and Hot, and affect everyone everywhere, then there needs to be a way to reach the same speeds without mounts, in core Tyria and Hot maps. I do not understand how the speed difference can be considered acceptable. I am unsure whether a generic mount being added to the game for all players to obtain would be an acceptable solution at this point but I strongly hope they are working on a fair response to this issue.

 

Why does it matter if someone does more dmg than you at Teq...or anywhere....it's not pvp where it can matter...

[Ashen.2907]

> @Tekey.7946 said:

> The whole discussion about mounts seems to have shifted 180 degrees since Path of Fire.

> In the old forums there were lots of people opposed to mounts **in general**. As well as people who said they're alright with mounts as long as they're **pure cosmetic items**.

> Or if they add the common **25% or 33% speed buff** - to get rid of the signets in your builds.

>

> Other than one thread (which dealt more with the griffon in particular), I couldn't see many people that are opposed to mounts anymore.

> I know there are several people who first thought mounts weren't a good idea but then changed their minds about it when they saw them (because of their special implementation and abilities in GW2). But I don't believe that **every single one** of them (hundreds or thousands of people) **drastically changed their minds** about them and no skeptics remained.

> There were people who didn't want to see mounts at all and now we even have a griffon being able to fly infinitely if you do it right. Did they leave the game? Did they just accept it?

>

> This is not a thread to discuss the features in general since they're already fully implemented now.

> I just want to undestand the shift of opinions that happened within an **extremely short amount of time** - I just can't explain it by myself.

> **Are there still any mount skeptics left?**

 

My opinion didnt really shift.

 

I hope that mounts are profitable so that they fund the game but this feature is not one I was particularly interested in. Now, of course, they are a done deal. They will not be, and should not be, removed, so I prefer to focus on what I do and do not like about them.

[Shirlias.8104]

I changed my mind about mounts, though i still have doubts about griffon ( the fact that using it could allow the player to avoid part of the game, like enemie, ways, mount swap and so on ).

And also, the fact that now i appreciate mounts does not mean that i approve the low numbers of WP ( time sink ladies ).

 

But it's really fine overall.

The thing that scares me the most is that someday we'll see troll mount skins as the gliders.

[Ashen.2907]

> @Tumult.2578 said:

> Having to defend the batteries seems to have become a perfect example of pay to win because there is no way a non mount player can do equal damage to Teq and then get to the batteries and do equal damage there too and get back again. The mount speed difference is massive and allows doing more damage, for longer periods, and still get back in time to beat the non mount players back.

 

 

How much damage does one individual have to do in order to get credit? What do the players who get to the batteries a few seconds sooner win compared to those without a mount?

 

Realistically the difference between the character with the mount and the one without is largely irrelevant because one character's damage output among dozens is largely irrelevant.

[killermanjaro.5670]

I'm one of the ones who didn't like the idea of adding mounts, and overall I would still rather not have had them. I still feel because the focus was on mounts and how to justify them, we ended up with big (albeit nice looking) maps, that are just stretched out space with little content.

 

My other concern was performance, and in PoF mounted zergs I drop 20-30fps from what I would get in an unmounted zerg in HoT or core. I still wonder if all the extra verts etc on the mounts are the cause. Although even solo on a mount in PoF seems to run my game 20-25fps less than normal areas, so maybe there's a PoF performance issue in general.

 

While I've gotten used to how they handle so I can get around, I still find the controls/movement on them feel quite sluggish and clunky. But that's just personal preference (shame we can't tweak them to handle differently like we would with a car in a racing game lol)

 

However because mounts are a thing and not going anywhere I have tried to be open to them and find the positives, they are useful for getting around, and the abilities do give some fun options for re exploring older maps. They make winterberry runs a lot less work, which is great. Generally I haven't noticed stacks of mounts on banks etc in cities(mostly DR in my case) , so thankfully the visual clutter hasn't been as bad as I feared. Although I'm sure there will be days when it happens.

 

So while I was against them and still would rather have done without them, I've been trying to accept them and have adjusted to a neutral stance on them, as they are something that I have to live with, so it makes sense to try and find the good in having them around.