Post the bad Mistlock instabilities combinations!

[Gaesesagai.9421]

1. **Slippery Slope**: It's taken the place of the old Social Awkwardness. Better then the old SA, but it brings nothing interesting. It's tedious, frustrating and useless. No counterplay, no way to deal with it other than just push thru it.

2. **Birds**: My only complain here is the name of the birds. Really? "Juvenile White Raven"? No one took 2 seconds to come up with a name or something? Eh.

3. **We Bleed Fire**: Seems to be somewhat inconsistent. Like others have mentioned, sometime you take massive damage, other times it barely does anything other than the burning stacks. It also is too fast and with no realistic way of countering it with reflects or other defenses but I don't know if that was the intent so it's fine.

 

I don't really have a problem with the instabilities. I don't think they bring much if anything to the fractals, but in cm runs everything is fine. The only instability that I had a real problem with was the old SA and now that it's gone all is good. Like I said SS is tedious and uninteresting, but eh, you learn to slog thru it or simply skip the days it's on.

[totaloverride.3240]

I think mistlock instabilities are very bad concept. and then over-drive instabilities like Fractal Vindicators?! like Fractal Avengers are not enough?!

Last Laugh in crowds (like swamp) or at end of Nightmare (like cannon barrage)

 

Most new mistlock instabilities are total stupidity (my personal opinion).

Slippery?! looks like Super Mario on ice

Birds?! Bleeding fireballs?! what is this? R-Type? Phoenix?! Space invaders?!

30% less health?! seriously? on Glass Zerk or near Glass Zerk? geee!!! in Oasis?! or anywhere...

 

At least remove new mistlock instabilities if not all of them altogether

 

> @"Gaesesagai.9421" said:

> I don't think they bring much if anything to the fractals

they bring frustration lately

 

> @"Gaesesagai.9421" said:

>simply skip the days it's on

i skip very often lately and i didn't pay to skip

[totaloverride.3240]

> @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> Thanks for the feedback everyone and for keeping it civil and productive :)

we are doing our best to keep it civil :/

 

[Zenith.7301]

Frailty+ We Bleed Fire was absolutely dumb on Artsariv and underground ice ele with all the adds....

[Eramonster.2718]

> @"Zenith.7301" said:

> Frailty+ We Bleed Fire was absolutely dumb on Artsariv and underground ice ele with all the adds....

 

Picture that with a weaver; 8k HP with Frailty and a 6k+ fireball right at the face during CM :tongue:.

[Zenith.7301]

> @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > Frailty+ We Bleed Fire was absolutely dumb on Artsariv and underground ice ele with all the adds....

>

> Picture that with a weaver; 8k HP with Frailty and a 6k+ fireball right at the face during CM :tongue:.

 

Plus our Underground fractal was bugged. We bleed fire wasn't an active instability and yet the adds had it for that fractal.

[Tzarakiel.7490]

Personally I just think the new instabilities are overtuned. Birds attack twice more often than what feels reasonable.

The new instabilities that increases damage taken affects players instead of enemies as the older damage boosts did, which means even bosses hits way harder.

 

Conditions on the player hits 3 times harder if an enemy spawns behind with outflanked, even if the enemy causing the conditions are in front of you. That bug makes any instability that applies conditions way harder especially combined with mist convergence, which can randomly spawn enemies behind players. The increased damage taken instabilities are also twice as strong as they should be in my opinion.

 

Bleed fire is awful combined with anything that boosts damage since it magnifies the amount of healing needed so much that my healers would probably have to swap from harrier to something with even more healing power.

 

Stick together works alright, but combined with anything that increases damage taken it makes any poorly timed hit a one-shot kill.

 

Frailty just doesn't work because most big attacks deals 70-80% of most players health in damage, making every big attack a one shot kill when you have 30% less health. The improved movement speed also makes it harder to heal or buff party members. You would not believe the lengths some players go to to avoid healing.

 

Slippery slope is fun, especially combined with the new social awkwardness. However it does not work on any fractal that requires precision movement and it messes with my expected movement on the next fractal I do after.

 

[Daddicus.6128]

Since Wednesday 1/23, I've noticed a radical upswing in the frequency of instability changes. The birds used to give you a little time to fight; they don't now. But, the worst is the other fractals merging in. I've seen (today) two of them AT THE SAME TIME. We had a the champ rabbit and the awakened champ on the map at once. Later, we had both a jade tentacle and the beam attack that's really large, again, at the same time.

 

I used to be able to at least hold my own in T4 fractals, but now, even T3s are proving way more frustrating than is worth my time.

 

Since I didn't see a note that you were beefing them up, I have to assume this is a bug, but it's a huge one. In just the last few days, I've seen nearly a dozen people give up on doing fractals entirely (or, so they said). This isn't good.

[totaloverride.3240]

> @"Eramonster.2718" said:

> > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > Frailty+ We Bleed Fire was absolutely dumb on Artsariv and underground ice ele with all the adds....

>

> Picture that with a weaver; 8k HP with Frailty and a 6k+ fireball right at the face during CM :tongue:.

 

 

Last night we got 9k ice shard in Chaos fractal on Guardian with Boon Overload

Birds killed!!! me twice!!!!

Boon overload makes serious dmg

[yann.1946]

I wonder if people would feel better about slippery if it was either all 3 of the dailys or none at all

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> Since Wednesday 1/23, I've noticed a radical upswing in the frequency of instability changes. The birds used to give you a little time to fight; they don't now. But, the worst is the other fractals merging in. I've seen (today) two of them AT THE SAME TIME. We had a the champ rabbit and the awakened champ on the map at once. Later, we had both a jade tentacle and the beam attack that's really large, again, at the same time.

>

> I used to be able to at least hold my own in T4 fractals, but now, even T3s are proving way more frustrating than is worth my time.

>

> Since I didn't see a note that you were beefing them up, I have to assume this is a bug, but it's a huge one. In just the last few days, I've seen nearly a dozen people give up on doing fractals entirely (or, so they said). This isn't good.

 

I should correct this. SOME fractals have gotten noticeably harder, with no apparent changes. Thaumanova, Shattered Obs., and Siren's are three that went from interesting to nearly impossible (for me). Interestingly, in Thaumanova, it's not the Anomaly that's the hard part; it's Subject 6. If I go into Thaumanova where they've already dealt with Subject 6, the Anomaly seems normal.

[Pirindolo.9427]

Many of the insts are too overtuned for fractals that have crowds of trash mobs around you, or have the ground permanently filled with damn orange circles (Mai Trin, Oasis, Siren's Reef, Swampland, Molten Boss, Underground with elementals...).

[Excursion.9752]

I had the privilege to do Underground Facility T4 With Birds. Would have been ok if I had the bomb path. But we had the gun path which when you have a gun equip you can not dodge which is really awesome when the birds keep flocking to you which felt like way to often. Felt pretty broken.

[Daddicus.6128]

> @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > @"Daddicus.6128" said:

> > Since Wednesday 1/23, I've noticed a radical upswing in the frequency of instability changes. The birds used to give you a little time to fight; they don't now. But, the worst is the other fractals merging in. I've seen (today) two of them AT THE SAME TIME. We had a the champ rabbit and the awakened champ on the map at once. Later, we had both a jade tentacle and the beam attack that's really large, again, at the same time.

> >

> > I used to be able to at least hold my own in T4 fractals, but now, even T3s are proving way more frustrating than is worth my time.

> >

> > Since I didn't see a note that you were beefing them up, I have to assume this is a bug, but it's a huge one. In just the last few days, I've seen nearly a dozen people give up on doing fractals entirely (or, so they said). This isn't good.

>

> I should correct this. SOME fractals have gotten noticeably harder, with no apparent changes. Thaumanova, Shattered Obs., and Siren's are three that went from interesting to nearly impossible (for me). Interestingly, in Thaumanova, it's not the Anomaly that's the hard part; it's Subject 6. If I go into Thaumanova where they've already dealt with Subject 6, the Anomaly seems normal.

 

They seem back to normal again.

[Neutra.6857]

Maybe make it so birds only spawn if you are in combat with an elite or higher mob? And what the hell is with the juvenile raven's that spawn. In mob heavy fights things are bad enough as is, but add in those ravens which also get affected by every other instability there is and it makes things really hard. I mean those ravens get the we bleed fire, last laugh, outflanked bonus and just about everything else.

[Lord of the Fire.6870]

> @"Pirindolo.9427" said:

> Many of the insts are too overtuned for fractals that have crowds of trash mobs around you, or have the ground permanently filled with kitten orange circles (Mai Trin, Oasis, Siren's Reef, Swampland, Molten Boss, Underground with elementals...).

 

I think for Swampland, Molten Boss,Underground with elementals., Siren Riff its really a problem when you have multiply instability which increase the dps of the trash mops or/and Fragility. Mai Trin hasn't that many and Oasis okay when you consider all the other mops pre the boss.

 

In the past Swampland was often more difficult through getting 3 of them and with more difficult I mean harder then fractal 100 this was also in the old thread of instability randomization. Underground with Ice Element the same but not mentioned so often.

 

About other Instabilities or aspects of them:

 

Negative:

 

**Birds** they are really annoying and in some fractals or more then this like in Twillight or Cliffside also they don't work when you really can't roll like you want namely Aetherblade and Chaos

 

**We Bleeding Fire** 6k is a bit too much from my experience so far maybe 4 would be okay

 

**Fragility** Its just don't work for ele and thief okay ?

 

Positive :

 

I have less problems with boon overload then I thought

 

Lets say they stay like they are then ele, thief and Druid get forced out of the meta for holo, dh and Firebrand as heal. This assumption also include Siren Reef. I tried the fractal with 6-7 teams on multiply days I admin with some really bad instabilities combinations but the FB was the only one who could carry a PUG group through it so far. Especially for combination like Fragilty + We Bleed Fire the class is gold(aegis + more heal + more boons) were the Druid completely fails.

 

 

[Vagrant.7206]

Today's Twilight Oasis was AWFUL.

 

Birds + Afflicted + No Pain, No Gain

 

Urk, that was awful.

[Daddicus.6128]

Underground and Deepstone with we bleed fire (both in the boss room). Underground is impossible for mortals, and Deepstone is almost so.

[rabenpriester.7129]

> @"Benjamin Arnold.3457" said:

> Thanks for the feedback everyone and for keeping it civil and productive :)

 

Ben, do you have any data on how many people complete fractals daily and if the number changed since the last patch? Do you gather data on the frequency in which players complete fractals (daily, weekends, sporadically)?

 

To keep on point: Slippery Slope on everything.

 

In the first days I found myself trying it and deciding I don't want to play fractals with this at all. So I started checking if it had SS. Then that got annoying and I stopped completely. It's just terrible to play and doesn't fit the gameplay feel I got in the last years or anything I want from the game. No game I've ever seen or played thought it was a good idea to add random ice floor physics to levels without taking the level design into consideration at first, and as a basis for that change. Oh well.

 

X (Birds, for example)+ Boon Overload make it very, very unrewarding to play certain low hp classes, just so you know. I don't see any reason for why one DPS class should get rekt while the other is fine, just because they have different base hp and armor for no reason. They deal the same damage, after all.

[Bugabuga.9721]

It feels like in general anything that _messes with player's movement or dodges_ is bad or very bad for pug groups. Birds (especially super-powered with bonus boons) should not be where fractals have been tuned for fine movement and enemies density and "use your dodges properly" (siren's, TO, Arkk). Either exclude them or give +200% endurance regeneration or something (aka let the extra bonus birds be cleaved, but remove primary attacking ones you have to dodge). If you're in the middle of Amala's complicated telegraph, dodging because birds will kill you otherwise is a really bad idea. You only have one square next to Arkk that doesn't give you much space for "hey, I need to dodge because _biiiiirds_".

 

Bumper cars that are social awkwardness now is probably better than before on most fractals except _anywhere_ where you have tight spaces or positioning for melee classes. It's funny first time as all the dagger using classes clash and push each other around. It's less funny where you need to be in-between one-shotting animation telegraphs but there's not enough space to fill all players. Or someone accidentally bumps into you when the floor is mostly gone. Or you're doing Aetherblade. Three pixels to the left -- insta-down from the zappy field.

 

Also new "convergence" is now 2x (if not 3x) times as frequent, I presume for the ghostly chance of some "friendly" character spawning (not seen friendly champ rabbit on my side, like, _ever_).

 

Fire bleeding really needs to be limited to _primary_ bosses, otherwise on new spawn-happy fractals things get out of hand incredibly quickly (with 5x or so of those tiny projectiles). Added with afflicted there's not enough reflects to counteract it.

 

Frailty+Outflanked seems like mega-cruel combo as well, especially when you have no control over newly spawning mobs in AOEs. It basically means "you _have_ to kill everything or else". Make it more fair -- if we're getting 25% "benefit" then we _should not_ get 300% "disadvantage". 50% tops. (hello Adrenaline Rush -- random side-spawned mob will one-shot you easily)

 

So far it feels like the real purpose of re-work was to just pare down ranks of T4 groups and people who used to do them without problem daily are giving up after many wipes, and that "no pug t4 run should average out to less than 1.5 hours" (except for a few lucky days when you get shorter dailies with normal instabilities). Statics are probably mostly unaffected.

[spiritualabyss.7016]

We Bleed Fire + Birds+aoe boons on death could be a little too much in many encounters.

 

The only instability that really bothers me is "We Bleed Fire" - I get that you want to incentivize reflects, but then at least increase the reflected damage.

 

Its "positive" effect only affects its own negative (there is nothing else in fracs that deals noticeable condition damage).

 

So my suggestion is to reduce its base condition duration and give it a real positive.

Something like a 50% chance to reflect for 2s on dodge (to reflect the projectile if you dodge early enough).

 

Edit: And the positive side of Slippery Slope could be improved too - currently it increases stability duration, how about it applying 2s stability on dodge?

 

[Turkeyspit.3965]

The other night (?) I remember seeing Solid Ocean with Outflanked and Stick Together. Now while I like the concept of Stick Together, and both it and Outflanked can be "avoided" by playing differently, I don't agree with a pair of instabilities that will guarantee a 1 shot against poorly positioned player.

 

While silly easy, Solid Ocean is also somewhat chaotic at the end, and players tend to spread out to deal with tentacles/crystals dudes. Nothing bad happened, but I remember seeing those two instabilities on my screen, and couldn't help but think "wow, nasty combo".

 

Birds still suck btw. Full on hard core suck.

[Atticus.7194]

Sirens Reef final boss is just a trainwreck of an encounter under normal circumstances but with multiple adds proccing fireballs, applying conditions, receiving boons and us taking every damage if we get knocked out of range it's basically undoable.

 

ArenaNet really needs to make a point of removing certain instability combos like this boss instead of just assuming players will figure it out. This boss is more chaotic and more damaging than 99% of all raids. It's worse than CM 100, it's just absolute stupid nonsensical chaos.

[DaedHead.4586]

Sirens Reef with outflanked and we bleed fire today was ridiculous. My PUG group wiped on the final boss 5 times before just deciding to skip it. We tried several different strategies and nothing seemed to help.

[Nomad.4301]

I'm just going to throw my hat in the ring here and say that Sirens Reef (final boss) with **[We Bleed Fire]**, **[Outflanked]** and **[No Pain, No Gain]** is quite possibly the single worst combination of instabilities I've ever seen, in ANY fractal; even CMs.

 

This incredible synergy of crap comes from the fact that the final boss features about two dozen re-spawning adds which all have 20 stacks of might, fury AND _protection_ on them at all times, making them deal more damage and more resistant to cleaving plus they all do **300%** more damage to you at pretty much all times since you can't re-position them in front of you all the time.

This takes them from the annoyance they normally are to a serious threat, then you add in We Bleed Fire and you have about 144 fireballs shooting off in every direction every 10 seconds hitting the whole group for 1750-7500 damage + all the other stuff that normally makes that fight a nightmare (wind, condi's, 'flux' bombs, boss spamming stuns/slow, getting knocked into the water etc...).

 

All of this together makes the final boss an incredible mess of effects that is hard to look at pretty much impossible to avoid it all, only way we were able to do it was with a healing rev using the tablet to block all the projectiles from the adds + fire blood and heavy use of boon-strip and cleave; still took about 15 attempts.

 

Anet PLEASE consider looking at this fractal and disabling certain combinations of instabilities or people will just start skipping it. :\