ARCDPS damage is a hoax

[Loosmaster.8263]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Loosmaster.8263" said:

> > Don't use and stay away from anybody that does. You'll be better off. I only use it for ping/fps monitor. All damage info is off.

>

> Dont gw2 comes with a fps metter in options?

 

Yes but it's through a panel display in options that shows up on the screen. Arc is just a small box you can position anywhere on your screen.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Loosmaster.8263" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"Loosmaster.8263" said:

> > > Don't use and stay away from anybody that does. You'll be better off. I only use it for ping/fps monitor. All damage info is off.

> >

> > Dont gw2 comes with a fps metter in options?

>

> Yes but it's through a panel display in options that shows up on the screen. Arc is just a small box you can position anywhere on your screen.

 

Good point ;} totally forgot about that.

[ArchonWing.9480]

Stop being afraid of dying and wear some damage. Thx. Plus anyone with half a brain would compare it same class to same class. But if you're doing less damage than minstrel firebrands, then maybe your build is crap.

 

That being said I did say anyone with half a brain. It is funny to see people tryharding with arcdps-- I do it merely for amusement.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

I've always thought the same thing.. ArcDps is a poor way to measure performance in WvW, yet some commanders still to this day when they lose fights start looking at these numbers and blaming people.

 

It doesn't matter if you are some AoE god that can tag lots dealing hundreds of thousands of dps, if your dps is not downing them as a whole, it doesn't matter. Calculated dps at the right time downing 1 or multiple players is far better. 100,000 dps while downing multiple people is far better than 1,000,000 dps that can't down anyone.

[Hitman.5829]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> I've always thought the same thing.. ArcDps is a poor way to measure performance in WvW, yet some commanders still to this day when they lose fights start looking at these numbers and blaming people.

>

> It doesn't matter if you are some AoE god that can tag lots dealing hundreds of thousands of dps, if your dps is not downing them as a whole, it doesn't matter. Calculated dps at the right time downing 1 or multiple players is far better. 100,000 dps while downing multiple people is far better than 1,000,000 dps that can't down anyone.

 

Yeah, total damage dealt is not as important as damage per target because damage per target tells you if you are being effective to the squad.

For example: having a total damage of 125000 as a revenant means that that damage is SPREAD in 5 targets, so that the damage per target is 25000.

However, if a warrior has a total damage of 100000, then the damage is spread on average 3 targets. So, the damage per target is 100000/3 = 33333.

Thus the warrior was more effective dealing damage and the damage was a spike in comparison to revenant's "collateral damage".

What matters is the metric damage per target.

 

And this should not be a surprise as melee combat is more powerful than range combat.

And what's worse is that a melee warrior is doing more damage per target than a range revenant.

[MUDse.7623]

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > I've always thought the same thing.. ArcDps is a poor way to measure performance in WvW, yet some commanders still to this day when they lose fights start looking at these numbers and blaming people.

> >

> > It doesn't matter if you are some AoE god that can tag lots dealing hundreds of thousands of dps, if your dps is not downing them as a whole, it doesn't matter. Calculated dps at the right time downing 1 or multiple players is far better. 100,000 dps while downing multiple people is far better than 1,000,000 dps that can't down anyone.

>

> Yeah, total damage dealt is not as important as damage per target because damage per target tells you if you are being effective to the squad.

> For example: having a total damage of 125000 as a revenant means that that damage is SPREAD in 5 targets, so that the damage per target is 25000.

> However, if a warrior has a total damage of 100000, then the damage is spread on average 3 targets. So, the damage per target is 100000/3 = 33333.

> Thus the warrior was more effective dealing damage and the damage was a spike in comparison to revenant's "collateral damage".

> What matters is the metric damage per target.

>

> And this should not be a surprise as melee combat is more powerful than range combat.

> And what's worse is that a melee warrior is doing more damage per target than a range revenant.

 

you also miss a number in your superior math!

the amount of hits.

you see the rev might be hitting 5 targets per hit and your warrior 3.

but if that rev is dealing 125000 damage spread on 5 targets with 1 hit, then its 25000 per target.

when your warrior is doing 100000 damage spread on average 3 targets with 10 hits, thats total 30 hits wich means the damage is spread on 3-30 targets and can possibly be much lower per target than the rev.

 

[Bort.8647]

You are saying that hitting fewer targets harder is better than hitting more targets for less. Zerg fights are not about one person downing someone on their own . If all your dps are hitting the same group of people, it doesnt matter if their damage per target is lower because coordinated attacks will still generate downs. This is why aoe damage is superior, and why zergs arent just made of single target burst builds.

 

Arcdps damage stats can be misleading if people just drop everything they have on cooldown, trying to get top damage. If people are coordinated, then It does a very good job at pointing out under performing players, and showing who is actually using their skills correctly.

[Israel.7056]

Here's the deal: if you're gonna go warrior dps you gotta push into melee range and stay there to hundred blades people down. You gotta run glassy enough to actually kill something but still be tanky enough to survive all the damage that's going to be dropped on your face as you push and while you're actually on target. Warrior damage is very easy to avoid and warriors themselves are very easy to shut down in a zerg fight. Arc dps is just a tool guilds use to figure out who's missing their damage that's all. The reason people don't go full warrior is because they know they're going to get annihilated by hybrid comps before they can even get in range to do their damage. Even if warrior could out damage rev or necro in a melee trade which they cant, they will never out damage them in a range trade. Case closed.

[ArchonWing.9480]

> @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> I've always thought the same thing.. ArcDps is a poor way to measure performance in WvW, yet some commanders still to this day when they lose fights start looking at these numbers and blaming people.

>

> It doesn't matter if you are some AoE god that can tag lots dealing hundreds of thousands of dps, if your dps is not downing them as a whole, it doesn't matter. Calculated dps at the right time downing 1 or multiple players is far better. 100,000 dps while downing multiple people is far better than 1,000,000 dps that can't down anyone.

 

The worst is those people that play selfishly and brag about their dps but lost/rallybaited anyways.

[dANO.1273]

Just uninstall arcdps because you don't know how to use it and you will be able to believe that you have more dps than all the other classes and enjoy the game =) ;)

[Safandula.8723]

Let's come to a real world

In a war, a soldier made 20 k dmg to 4 ppl

On the other hand tank dealt 400 k dmg to 100 ppl. (also destroyed 5 building and hospital)

Question: what is more efficient? Tank with 4k per target or soldier with 5k per target.

What is sad, that some ppl are thumbing posts of this guy :(

[Cyninja.2954]

> @"Safandula.8723" said:

> Let's come to a real world

> In a war, a soldier made 20 k dmg to 4 ppl

> On the other hand tank dealt 400 k dmg to 100 ppl. (also destroyed 5 building and hospital)

> Question: what is more efficient? Tank with 4k per target or soldier with 5k per target.

> What is sad, that some ppl are thumbing posts of this guy :(

 

Obviously the soldier, duh. The tank wasn't in melee range and probably a pay to win new model strait out of the factory. :3

[XECOR.2814]

Total damage done by single player matters not total damage done to single user.

[SkyShroud.2865]

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > @"DeadlySynz.3471" said:

> > I've always thought the same thing.. ArcDps is a poor way to measure performance in WvW, yet some commanders still to this day when they lose fights start looking at these numbers and blaming people.

> >

> > It doesn't matter if you are some AoE god that can tag lots dealing hundreds of thousands of dps, if your dps is not downing them as a whole, it doesn't matter. Calculated dps at the right time downing 1 or multiple players is far better. 100,000 dps while downing multiple people is far better than 1,000,000 dps that can't down anyone.

>

> Yeah, total damage dealt is not as important as damage per target because damage per target tells you if you are being effective to the squad.

> For example: having a total damage of 125000 as a revenant means that that damage is SPREAD in 5 targets, so that the damage per target is 25000.

> However, if a warrior has a total damage of 100000, then the damage is spread on average 3 targets. So, the damage per target is 100000/3 = 33333.

> Thus the warrior was more effective dealing damage and the damage was a spike in comparison to revenant's "collateral damage".

> What matters is the metric damage per target.

>

> And this should not be a surprise as melee combat is more powerful than range combat.

> And what's worse is that a melee warrior is doing more damage per target than a range revenant.

 

That isn't how things works.

 

In practice, a consistent pressure matters. Such that a consistent range aoe dps will continuously burn sustain and eventually the sustain will not able to keep up and people will start dropping like flies when bomb hit. This is all very basic. Sure, coms can call for a spike bomb but that doesn't means any skills is considered a bomb skill. As long everybody continuously use their range skills (not meant for bombs) for range pressure, it will continuously burn sustain.

 

Same logic why commanders dislike people not pushing through along with tag or not keeping up or overextend. All actions have reasons.

 

Your melee warrior does not provide any range pressure. Base on your initial argument, you just want a melee train, a melee train that only exist back in 2013. This isn't 2013 any more, people can just range aoe you down while pulling backwards. They have no reason to face tank you.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

> @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > @"MUDse.7623" said:

> > > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > > > @"Hitman.5829" said:

> > > > > > @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> > > > > > Because there is no skill that can tag 10,000 people?

> > > > >

> > > > > its a theoretical example to show how absurd it is to say the the higest damage was the most efficient.

> > > > > As you can see with the 10000 people tag, the damage is exagerated, but in fact it only dealth 50 per target.

> > > > > So, the same thing applies to 5 target skills.

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > Isn't that the whole point of aoe? Otherwise, why would we call it AOE? We use AOE for obvious reasons, to down as many people as possible. Why would you care about single damage dps? Does your single target damage help wipe a blob?

> > >

> > > Single damage is a spike. The higher the single damage the better.

> > > perhaps you don't understand the basic math behind damage.

> > > What good does it serve to have AOE skills targeting 10000 people of the damage per target is 50?

> > > Now, the problem with GW2 is that AoE damage is not that low, so you will get kills by droping AoE en masse, but it is better to melee train them for a higher damage spike.

> > >

> >

> > and why kill people with single target damage, when you can kill a group with AoE ?

> > if we had groups of 10000+ fighting each other then half of your zerg doing 50 dmg each will still result in 250000 dmg per target for an instant kill.

> > your not fighting the zerg alone, its a group vs group. you dont need to kill one single person alone as you can kill an entire group with coordinated usage of AoE.

> >

> > normally i would assume you know that given your playtime in that mode, but i am really not sure with these frequent weird threads you start..

>

> Sigh,

> I am stating that ARCDPS damage is not a reflection of how bad a class is because it measures "collateral damage."

> If you compare warrior vs revenant, the revenant will have more damage dealth, but the damage is spread in 5 targets.

> Warrior on the other hand will have lower damage recorded in ARCDPS, but the damage is spread in 3 targets average.

>

> Therefore, when you do the calculation of damage per target, warrior will always win the damage battle.

 

If you play Warrior in WvW Zergs for its dmg then you are doing something very wrong.

 

Thats like changing a tire with a Hammer.

 

 

[Justine.6351]

People here are not being particularly mindful of the difference between fluff damage and effective damage. In a zerg I could probably get top DPS on a burn guard but I would be pretty useless.

[Nordic Natedog.4360]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> People here are not being particularly mindful of the difference between fluff damage and effective damage. In a zerg I could probably get top DPS on a burn guard but I would be pretty useless.

 

Pretty much all I run is hybrid burn guard and I am very useful in group/zerg fights. Keeping up constant burn pressure plus the added spike damage (since I am running 2.75k power and 2.5k condi dmg with 100% burn dur and 168% crit damage) means I am putting tons of pressure and down 5+ foes when ever I do a spike (j/i, trap, and gs whirl combo). It obviously is best if I am supported by a FB and other help, but that's the nature of all zerg party comps, 1-2 heavy dps + support + anti-support (boon stripping). Also, reflect walls on burn (hybrid) guard are extremely effective (both offensively and defensively). If you doubt, feel free to check out videos of game play, just search for Figrin Bomb.

[Justine.6351]

> @"Nordic Natedog.4360" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > People here are not being particularly mindful of the difference between fluff damage and effective damage. In a zerg I could probably get top DPS on a burn guard but I would be pretty useless.

>

> Pretty much all I run is hybrid burn guard and I am very useful in group/zerg fights. Keeping up constant burn pressure plus the added spike damage (since I am running 2.75k power and 2.5k condi dmg with 100% burn dur and 168% crit damage) means I am putting tons of pressure and down 5+ foes when ever I do a spike (j/i, trap, and gs whirl combo). It obviously is best if I am supported by a FB and other help, but that's the nature of all zerg party comps, 1-2 heavy dps + support + anti-support (boon stripping). Also, reflect walls on burn (hybrid) guard are extremely effective (both offensively and defensively). If you doubt, feel free to check out videos of game play, just search for Figrin Bomb.

 

Yeah reflect is disgusting with permeating wrath. Can link build and youtube here?

[Nordic Natedog.4360]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> > @"Nordic Natedog.4360" said:

> > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > People here are not being particularly mindful of the difference between fluff damage and effective damage. In a zerg I could probably get top DPS on a burn guard but I would be pretty useless.

> >

> > Pretty much all I run is hybrid burn guard and I am very useful in group/zerg fights. Keeping up constant burn pressure plus the added spike damage (since I am running 2.75k power and 2.5k condi dmg with 100% burn dur and 168% crit damage) means I am putting tons of pressure and down 5+ foes when ever I do a spike (j/i, trap, and gs whirl combo). It obviously is best if I am supported by a FB and other help, but that's the nature of all zerg party comps, 1-2 heavy dps + support + anti-support (boon stripping). Also, reflect walls on burn (hybrid) guard are extremely effective (both offensively and defensively). If you doubt, feel free to check out videos of game play, just search for Figrin Bomb.

>

> Yeah reflect is disgusting with permeating wrath. Can link build and youtube here?

 

Sorry, I don't just post builds openly. I don't mind discussing setups in game, but feel posting builds doesn't equate well from player to player as each one has different style of play. As to linking, if I link my youtube videos here they often get censored off. A search of Figrin Bomb will bring them all up instantly.

[SloRules.3560]

> @"Nordic Natedog.4360" said:

> > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > People here are not being particularly mindful of the difference between fluff damage and effective damage. In a zerg I could probably get top DPS on a burn guard but I would be pretty useless.

>

> Pretty much all I run is hybrid burn guard and I am very useful in group/zerg fights. Keeping up constant burn pressure plus the added spike damage (since I am running 2.75k power and 2.5k condi dmg with 100% burn dur and 168% crit damage) means I am putting tons of pressure and down 5+ foes when ever I do a spike (j/i, trap, and gs whirl combo). It obviously is best if I am supported by a FB and other help, but that's the nature of all zerg party comps, 1-2 heavy dps + support + anti-support (boon stripping). Also, reflect walls on burn (hybrid) guard are extremely effective (both offensively and defensively). If you doubt, feel free to check out videos of game play, just search for Figrin Bomb.

 

And here we have a hero thinking he is usefull.

[Justine.6351]

> @"SloRules.3560" said:

> > @"Nordic Natedog.4360" said:

> > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > People here are not being particularly mindful of the difference between fluff damage and effective damage. In a zerg I could probably get top DPS on a burn guard but I would be pretty useless.

> >

> > Pretty much all I run is hybrid burn guard and I am very useful in group/zerg fights. Keeping up constant burn pressure plus the added spike damage (since I am running 2.75k power and 2.5k condi dmg with 100% burn dur and 168% crit damage) means I am putting tons of pressure and down 5+ foes when ever I do a spike (j/i, trap, and gs whirl combo). It obviously is best if I am supported by a FB and other help, but that's the nature of all zerg party comps, 1-2 heavy dps + support + anti-support (boon stripping). Also, reflect walls on burn (hybrid) guard are extremely effective (both offensively and defensively). If you doubt, feel free to check out videos of game play, just search for Figrin Bomb.

>

> And here we have a hero thinking he is usefull.

 

After watching some of his vids I have to concur unfortunately. His herald is often top dps when it matters and you can hear the frustration of his squad leader every time he dies just as he says "bomb here", "why are you already dead?". The times he does have top dps its frequently from reflect wall and the occasional tele trap bomb that actually connects with something big. And even then the herald and scourges are on his heels for dps.

[Nordic Natedog.4360]

> @"Justine.6351" said:

> > @"SloRules.3560" said:

> > > @"Nordic Natedog.4360" said:

> > > > @"Justine.6351" said:

> > > > People here are not being particularly mindful of the difference between fluff damage and effective damage. In a zerg I could probably get top DPS on a burn guard but I would be pretty useless.

> > >

> > > Pretty much all I run is hybrid burn guard and I am very useful in group/zerg fights. Keeping up constant burn pressure plus the added spike damage (since I am running 2.75k power and 2.5k condi dmg with 100% burn dur and 168% crit damage) means I am putting tons of pressure and down 5+ foes when ever I do a spike (j/i, trap, and gs whirl combo). It obviously is best if I am supported by a FB and other help, but that's the nature of all zerg party comps, 1-2 heavy dps + support + anti-support (boon stripping). Also, reflect walls on burn (hybrid) guard are extremely effective (both offensively and defensively). If you doubt, feel free to check out videos of game play, just search for Figrin Bomb.

> >

> > And here we have a hero thinking he is usefull.

>

> After watching some of his vids I have to concur unfortunately. His herald is often top dps when it matters and you can hear the frustration of his squad leader every time he dies just as he says "bomb here", "why are you already dead?". The times he does have top dps its frequently from reflect wall and the occasional tele trap bomb that actually connects with something big. And even then the herald and scourges are on his heels for dps.

 

First, I don't make my videos to simply show off the best of situations. I make them for fun. But if you think the only times I am top dps is from reflects only, you really didn't watch much at all. But hey, that is fine.