Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Before being corrupted by Kralkatorrik, what were the Riftcrawlers, Riftstalkers, and Wrathbringer? Karka and a bristleback? Demons from the Mists? Created from scratch? Or something else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hugo.4705 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Karkas, Chak drones and Bristleback? Would say okay for bristleback but the two others are just Aliens created within the mists I guess. They have a special physiology allowing them to create rifts and travelling through the mists. Imho But now that Mordy is dead, maybe kralky started to check on creatures present on his domain... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Andrew Gray.5816 Posted January 17, 2019 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted January 17, 2019 Riftstalkers were an extra-tyrian race that Kralkatorrik found and enslaved within the mists. The Bristleback is a hand-forged lieutenant (Like The Shatterer or Glint) rather than a corrupted creature. Kralk must have gotten tired of the Shatterer getting shot out of the sky and decided to go with something terrestrial for a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H.6142 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Andrew Gray.5816" said: > The Bristleback is a hand-forged lieutenant (Like The Shatterer or Glint) rather than a corrupted creature. Whoa. Canon check. Glint was made and not corrupted? I always thought dragon lieutenants were corrupted from living dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Andrew Gray.5816" said: > Riftstalkers were an extra-tyrian race that Kralkatorrik found and enslaved within the mists. The Bristleback is a hand-forged lieutenant (Like The Shatterer or **Glint**) rather than a corrupted creature. Kralk must have gotten tired of the Shatterer getting shot out of the sky and decided to go with something terrestrial for a change. I... expected all of that... except the bold. I highly request clarification: Was *made* or was she *born*? There is plenty of suggestion that she was born (won't bother listing it all) and that has been the largely believed, well, belief for years, so this would be a huge lore bomb and I'd rather not have it misunderstood due to unintended wordplay or the like. Her being born led to various questions, such as who was the mother (and who is Vlast/Aurene's father), or are dragons asexual... but if Glint was made, as in crafted and given life, that's another set of questions there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Matt H.6142" said: > > @"Andrew Gray.5816" said: > > The Bristleback is a hand-forged lieutenant (Like The Shatterer or Glint) rather than a corrupted creature. > Whoa. Canon check. Glint was made and not corrupted? I always thought dragon lieutenants were corrupted from living dragons. > It's possible Andrew doesn't know his GW history, but you are correct in that Glint was corrupted and not hand-forged like the Shatterer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 17, 2019 Author Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > @"Matt H.6142" said: > > > @"Andrew Gray.5816" said: > > > The Bristleback is a hand-forged lieutenant (Like The Shatterer or Glint) rather than a corrupted creature. > > Whoa. Canon check. Glint was made and not corrupted? I always thought dragon lieutenants were corrupted from living dragons. > > > > It's possible Andrew doesn't know his GW history, but you are correct in that Glint was corrupted and not hand-forged like the Shatterer. And why would we believe a player over a dev, exactly? I know my lore, and while there certainly are suggestions, these suggestions all rely upon the Unreliable Narrator and are subject to be false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zaklex.6308 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > @"Matt H.6142" said: > > > > @"Andrew Gray.5816" said: > > > > The Bristleback is a hand-forged lieutenant (Like The Shatterer or Glint) rather than a corrupted creature. > > > Whoa. Canon check. Glint was made and not corrupted? I always thought dragon lieutenants were corrupted from living dragons. > > > > > > > It's possible Andrew doesn't know his GW history, but you are "possibly" correct in that Glint was corrupted and not hand-forged like the Shatterer. > > And why would we believe a player over a dev, exactly? > > I know my lore, and while there certainly are suggestions, these suggestions all rely upon the Unreliable Narrator and are subject to be false. Yes, you do your lore(and I made a little correction to my original statement), more so than many others, but would you take Glint's word, or the word of the Forgotten(the ones that had the ritual to remove the corruption), or what did it say in the book(been to long since I read it). Why would they remove the corruption from a...ah, perhaps here's the rub, the difference between a construct(like say the Shatterer) and hand-forged(like say Glint). Presuming of course there's a difference between a construct and something hand-forged...but then we'd have to get that from ArenaNet itself. The possibilities are potentially endless, just like my theory that the reason Kralkatorrik just left at the end of the episode wasn't because of his victory, but because somehow Aurene had managed to infiltrate his mind and join/subjugate it and was in the process of rewiring his/her thought patterns...as outlandish as that sounds, it would be an interesting twist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randulf.7614 Posted January 17, 2019 Share Posted January 17, 2019 Interesting, I had always been led to believe Glint was born as well. Another lore item for the further clarification bucket methinks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > @"Zaklex.6308" said: > > > > @"Matt H.6142" said: > > > > > @"Andrew Gray.5816" said: > > > > > The Bristleback is a hand-forged lieutenant (Like The Shatterer or Glint) rather than a corrupted creature. > > > > Whoa. Canon check. Glint was made and not corrupted? I always thought dragon lieutenants were corrupted from living dragons. > > > > > > > > > > It's possible Andrew doesn't know his GW history, but you are "possibly" correct in that Glint was corrupted and not hand-forged like the Shatterer. > > > > And why would we believe a player over a dev, exactly? > > > > I know my lore, and while there certainly are suggestions, these suggestions all rely upon the Unreliable Narrator and are subject to be false. > > Yes, you do your lore(and I made a little correction to my original statement), more so than many others, but would you take Glint's word, or the word of the Forgotten(the ones that had the ritual to remove the corruption), or what did it say in the book(been to long since I read it). Why would they remove the corruption from a...ah, perhaps here's the rub, the difference between a construct(like say the Shatterer) and hand-forged(like say Glint). Presuming of course there's a difference between a construct and something hand-forged...but then we'd have to get that from ArenaNet itself. The possibilities are potentially endless, just like my theory that the reason Kralkatorrik just left at the end of the episode wasn't because of his victory, but because somehow Aurene had managed to infiltrate his mind and join/subjugate it and was in the process of rewiring his/her thought patterns...as outlandish as that sounds, it would be an interesting twist. Didn't want to start a lengthy discussion in a thread that'll close in a week, but it's neither Glint's nor Forgotten's words that suggest she was corrupted, but the sylvari Illyra - we do not know her source, however, making her aforementioned Unreliable. I'd presume her source would be the dwarven text, given the Priory had most access to those of all five elder races' records. What's more suggesting would be the eggs, and the many statements of Glint being Kralkatorrik's daughter. Eggs resulting in dragons, supposedly laid by a dragon, who was supposedly the child of a dragon, would _suggest_ biological reproduction, even if asexual (no partner, thus negating the need to wonder who Glint's mom and mate were). But countering that notion, we see destroyers, whom are "hand-forged" like the Shatterer and Wraithbringer by Primordus, creating egg-like objects that hatch into destroyers. Either way, it's suggested, but in no way confirmed like you made it out to be. And suggestions can be misleading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Andrew Gray.5816 Posted January 18, 2019 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted January 18, 2019 Sorry, I simply meant that it was not a corrupted creature. Not getting into the weeds on dragon reproduction this early in the morning. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 > @"Matt H.6142" said: > > @"Andrew Gray.5816" said: > > The Bristleback is a hand-forged lieutenant (Like The Shatterer or Glint) rather than a corrupted creature. > Whoa. Canon check. Glint was made and not corrupted? I always thought dragon lieutenants were corrupted from living dragons. > Glint was Kralkatorriks Scion.. she was corrupted/branded by him but before that she was born from the Crystal Elder Dragon. It's unclear how she was born she could have been created in some way but one assumes that she was born from an egg just like Aurine and Vlast.. although the idea of Kralkatorrik laying eggs is quite funny. Unfortuantely there is a lot of blanks in the lore regarding specifics like this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt H.6142 Posted January 18, 2019 Share Posted January 18, 2019 I’ll take this to mean Glint and co. are more a living crystal that look like dragons/bristlebacks then. Reproduction is like ice crystals. That creep would be very corruption-like. Does this carry over to Tequatl then I wonder?. We know Zhaitan (and Joko) would fashion abominations from dead flesh before animating it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 18, 2019 Author Share Posted January 18, 2019 > @"Matt H.6142" said: > I’ll take this to mean Glint and co. are more a living crystal that look like dragons/bristlebacks then. Reproduction is like ice crystals. That creep would be very corruption-like. Does this carry over to Tequatl then I wonder?. We know Zhaitan (and Joko) would fashion abominations from dead flesh before animating it. I'd probably only take that for Glint and her two scions. Though further clarification if we should consider The Shatterer + Wraithbringer as Kralk's scions would be nice, @"Andrew Gray.5816" (sorry for bugging you so much here). It'd be very interesting if something very much not-dragon looking can be considered a scion of an Elder Dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Matt H.6142" said: > > I’ll take this to mean Glint and co. are more a living crystal that look like dragons/bristlebacks then. Reproduction is like ice crystals. That creep would be very corruption-like. Does this carry over to Tequatl then I wonder?. We know Zhaitan (and Joko) would fashion abominations from dead flesh before animating it. > > I'd probably only take that for Glint and her two scions. Though further clarification if we should consider The Shatterer + Wraithbringer as Kralk's scions would be nice, @"Andrew Gray.5816" (sorry for bugging you so much here). > > It'd be very interesting if something very much not-dragon looking can be considered a scion of an Elder Dragon. Elder Dragons (and aspiring Elder Dragons, apparently) have champions, but I haven't heard of scions in any context other than Glint's legacy, which is about forcibly supplanting the Elder Dragons. Elder Dragons don't age and they're paragons of malicious selfishness, so why would they have any interest in an heir? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 > @"perilisk.1874" said: > Elder Dragons (and aspiring Elder Dragons, apparently) have champions, but I haven't heard of scions in any context other than Glint's legacy, which is about forcibly supplanting the Elder Dragons. Elder Dragons don't age and they're paragons of malicious selfishness, so why would they have any interest in an heir? Scion refers to child, usually for sons as heirs, but have been used as general children in the relation of GW dragons. It has nothing to do with supplanting, technically. I mean, to ask your own question: why would Kralkatorrik have a scion (Glint) if he had no intention of being replaced? Obviously, scion/children aren't solely intended for replacing, but they are capable of such. So my question was effective "must children of Elder Dragons be draconic?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"perilisk.1874" said: > > Elder Dragons (and aspiring Elder Dragons, apparently) have champions, but I haven't heard of scions in any context other than Glint's legacy, which is about forcibly supplanting the Elder Dragons. Elder Dragons don't age and they're paragons of malicious selfishness, so why would they have any interest in an heir? > > Scion refers to child, usually for sons as heirs, but have been used as general children in the relation of GW dragons. It has nothing to do with supplanting, technically. > > I mean, to ask your own question: why would Kralkatorrik have a scion (Glint) if he had no intention of being replaced? > > Obviously, scion/children aren't solely intended for replacing, but they are capable of such. > > So my question was effective "must children of Elder Dragons have to be draconic?" It can literally mean any descendant, but in practice it's typically invoked to mean an heir, often from a noble bloodline or the like. Legacy, likewise, means an inheritance. The two terms are tied to one another. Glints offspring inherited her purpose, and seek to claim a throne of sorts. Edit for clarity: by "legacy", I mean "Glint's legacy". I've only seen "scions" used in-game in regard to Glint's children, and specifically those participating in the plan called "Glint's legacy". Which makes sense, a legacy is an inheritance, a scion is an heir. I don't think Elder Dragons see their creations as anything other than tools to serve their ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted January 19, 2019 Author Share Posted January 19, 2019 > Josso Essher: Glint was the key. > Josso Essher: She was perfect for our purposes—a scion of an Elder Dragon and a Crystal Dragon herself, with a mind of her own. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Way_Forward [Glint is stated as Kralkatorrik's scion.]( ) And his [biological daughter.](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/494650/#Comment_494650) Whether or not Kralkatorrik saw her as an heir to his power, she is his scion. My latest question is basically asking if The Shatterer and, more importantly, Wrathbringer are also such. I think Andrew's attempt to clarify is saying no, but it's only clear that Glint wasn't "constructed". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
perilisk.1874 Posted January 19, 2019 Share Posted January 19, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > Josso Essher: Glint was the key. > > Josso Essher: She was perfect for our purposes—a scion of an Elder Dragon and a Crystal Dragon herself, with a mind of her own. > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/The_Way_Forward > > [Glint is stated as Kralkatorrik's scion.]( ) And his [biological daughter.](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/494650/#Comment_494650) > > Whether or not Kralkatorrik saw her as an heir to his power, she is his scion. > > My latest question is basically asking if The Shatterer and, more importantly, Wrathbringer are also such. I think Andrew's attempt to clarify is saying no, but it's only clear that Glint wasn't "constructed". Conceded, but in the context of the forgotten and their agenda, it still goes back to the fact that she could inherit his "title" after his death, because she is of his bloodline. There's still the implication that a scion is begat by an Elder Dragon, and can replace them, which isn't really the context in which an Elder Dragon would view its creations. On second reading, though, I guess that's what you were saying. And not too subtly asking "is the pale tree a scion of Mordremoth?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mephu Tahm Jr.1962 Posted January 20, 2019 Share Posted January 20, 2019 Glint was born to serve Kralkatorrik but was converted by the Forgotten. I believe it says so on the wiki. You could say that Kralkatorrik laying an egg is "hand-forging" a dragon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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