Forum feedback is too emotionally invested to be worth a lot ..or anything

[apharma.3741]

I have no idea what you mean, there's plenty of well thought out constructive criticism by players. They've been top 100 so they definitly know what they're talking about and many people agree with them so they must be

(

"https://youtube.com/watch?v=RwxFw0_ASr4")!

[Ragnar.4257]

The premise of this thread is just silly.

 

Sure, any particular individual post or individual thread, you should be skeptical of and question the motivation or bias of the poster.

 

But when you take the collective feedback over a period of weeks or months, you can see some clear patterns and trends, and from that a general consensus of the community as a whole, which right now is roughly this:

 

* Boonbeast and condi-mirage are over-tuned and are the 2 builds in most need of downward adjustment

* Deadeye, while not actually being overpowered, is none-the-less extremely frustrating to fight

* A general dis-like of (pseudo-)one-shot builds (herald sword, core-guard hammer, sic'em soulbeast, greatsword mesmer)

* Renegade is beyond useless and in desperate need of some buffs / redesign

 

That's the feel I get from the forum as a whole. Obviously an individual thread of "X is overpowered, nerf to oblivion plz" should be taken with a heavy pinch of salt. But if you've had hundreds of posters giving the exact same feedback consistently for the past 6 months, maybe its time to consider that there might be more to it than just salt?

[cyberzombie.7348]

One issue I notice is how it's more common talk about nerfs for the things that are recently over-performing but the things that have been under-performing for years are seemingly neglected.

[Exedore.6320]

> @"Ragnar.4257" said:

> Obviously an individual thread of "X is overpowered, nerf to oblivion plz" should be taken with a heavy pinch of salt. But if you've had hundreds of posters giving the exact same feedback consistently for the past 6 months, maybe its time to consider that there might be more to it than just salt?

 

Bingo. Can't remember which game Dev I read it from, but to paraphrase:

Players are pretty good at identifying what isn't fun or isn't working. If the feelings persist for 1-2 days after a patch, then the players are probably correct - something is wrong. However, players aren't as good at identifying the reason why something isn't fun or doesn't work, and they're even worse at solving it.

 

Something else I'll add:

You need to balance for all levels of play. That doesn't mean it has to be perfect for everyone - you can fine tune for the high skill levels. What it means ithat you can't have something running around at low or mid levels which only high skill players can adequately deal with (turret engineer from back in the day being a prime example).

[DiogoSilva.7089]

There has been plenty of good feedback on GW2-related forums since before the game even launched. It's all about being able to distinguish crying posts from well-thoughtful posts.

[Fortus.6175]

> @"DiogoSilva.7089" said:

> There has been plenty of good feedback on GW2-related forums since before the game even launched. It's all about being able to distinguish crying posts from well-thoughtful posts.

 

One problem with that; biases. I'm going to take mirages right now since it is a fairly hot topic;

 

Whether they are, or are not balanced, there seem to be a consensus that (among forum users, a small population of the game, as well as an unknown amount of people in the actual game, where you do hear complains about mirages) mirages are currently overtuned. Whether this is correct or not, any non neutral statement is bound to create sides, the ones for and the ones against (at the very least, you can have neutrals, aka dont care, but ultimately it really falls on one or the other).

 

Those that play the class will probably say all those threads about mirages are "salt", whether it is justified or not, the reader will then determine based on their own experience and what they have read/heard their own opinion, and they can either see it also as "salt" or a legit statement. Thats where bias comes in.

 

My point? For every person out there saying "thats not a 'legit' complain, thats 'salt'" there are others saying "thats a legit complain". Everyone has different biases and thresholds, mine are pretty low, the concept of "salt" does not exist to me. Every complain, even those from the lowest skilled players are still legit, and I can agree with them or not, but that doesnt make it any less legit to them, since that is just subjective.

 

My bias? I really hope people stopped using the excuse of "salt" to dismiss any thread they didnt agree with. If you dont agree with the person **TELL THEM WHY** or at least don't be a dismissive butt who only types something along the lines of "your point sucks and you are just salty".

 

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Fortus.6175" said:

> > @"DiogoSilva.7089" said:

> > There has been plenty of good feedback on GW2-related forums since before the game even launched. It's all about being able to distinguish crying posts from well-thoughtful posts.

>

> (...)

 

But... isn't that what he said? That there are (almost) unbiased posts about what should be changed?^^

 

With which I agree by the way. Many posts are utter nonsense, but some are actually well thought through and do not want to remake whole classes, but instead ask for minor critical skill changes. Anet just almost never implements these but reduces CDs oder just damage numbers - which does not always help.

 

 

[otto.5684]

OP, I think you are new to the internet ?

[Crab Fear.1624]

I was gonna say robots don't play this game, but.....

[TorQ.7041]

I am guilty because of this. I hate Condi mirage. Usually I play something I hate and once I get it I stop hating it. I got ok with power mirage, sic em and boonbeast. But even after playing Condi mirage I still hate it. I hate how it does so much dmg but yet it's so hard to hit. Now I just avoid them all together.

 

Maybe it's just me and I don't know the animations to dodge but when there's a bunch of clones around. N tab can't find it. It's really frustrating.

[Solori.6025]

> @"TorQ.7041" said:

> I am guilty because of this. I hate Condi mirage. Usually I play something I hate and once I get it I stop hating it. I got ok with power mirage, sic em and boonbeast. But even after playing Condi mirage I still hate it. I hate how it does so much dmg but yet it's so hard to hit. Now I just avoid them all together.

>

> Maybe it's just me and I don't know the animations to dodge but when there's a bunch of clones around. N tab can't find it. It's really frustrating.

 

I can't remember the last time I tabbed to a mesmer. I usually just click them. It's faster.

[TheDevice.2751]

> @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

> > > > @"BadMed.3846" said:

> > > > > @"Arheundel.6451" said:

> > > > > PvPers ask to nerf what kills them and....

> > > > Do you main Mesmer?

> > > >

> > >

> > > I notice that about 8/10 people who make threads like this are playing mesmers when I encounter them in-game.

> > >

> >

> > 10/10 boonbeasts are laughing at the free pass they're getting because not killing people through condidamage reduces the amount of anger your build generates by at least 50%. Which directly leads to them _still_ being buffed each balance patch despite being 5 of the top 10 last season and clearly toxic towards the game mode.

>

> Nerfing boonbeast would not stop people from ask for nerfs on ranger...because they get killed from range, I mean before boonbeast , people used to rant about rangers anyway so...nothing would really change as rangers would go back to sniping or druid bunker or whatever.

>

> Even if ranger would fall out of favour with the whole meta thing..some other spec will take its place and people would start with nerf threads all over again...really if players are happy when winning their precious duels..they will be unhappy when losing them and 90% of them will come on the forum afterward asking for nerfs.

>

> Are people looking for a game where nothing can kill them?....what even would be the point to play?...

 

You're over-simplifying imo and starting with a rather bogus premise that "PvPers ask to nerf what kills them" or even "its about 1v1 scenarios".

 

People don't rant about or want nerfs for what kills them, everyone gets killed by everything. It's _how_ they get killed; how fast, how little "skill" it took to do it, how little reaction time was available, how (if any) much of a mechanical element determined the outcome, etc. All that isn't even restricted to 1v1 situations. There have been plenty of situations where a mesmer, in particular, could 1v2 on a point with no issues. There are varying degrees of what could be attributed to skill level but if everyone is in the same division... they should all have the same skill level (idealy).

 

You also have this very disturbing view on balance in general, saying if one thing gets nerfed, something else will be just as bad. It's basically saying balance isn't needed or that who cares if a profession has a skill that can one-shot something. Everyone would complain about something else if it were deleted. Anet just saying "hey don't mind that obviously overpowered class. If it were nerfed you'd just complain about something else" doesn't really make for an appealing competitive environment.

 

I think balance is still a thing to aspire towards.

[Crab Fear.1624]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

nerf these:

mirage

core guard

boon beast

holo

 

[TorQ.7041]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"TorQ.7041" said:

> > I am guilty because of this. I hate Condi mirage. Usually I play something I hate and once I get it I stop hating it. I got ok with power mirage, sic em and boonbeast. But even after playing Condi mirage I still hate it. I hate how it does so much dmg but yet it's so hard to hit. Now I just avoid them all together.

> >

> > Maybe it's just me and I don't know the animations to dodge but when there's a bunch of clones around. N tab can't find it. It's really frustrating.

>

> I can't remember the last time I tabbed to a mesmer. I usually just click them. It's faster.

 

Depends on the situation. Can't always spot them. Alot if the times there's so many clones it's a cluster kitten. I usually tab while trying to find it and click on it. More efficient for me.

 

Anyhow I just avoid them if I can't kill them in the first 10-15 seconds. Maybe I just suck I dunno. But it doesn't look like I am the only with this problem. They can kill you in seconds but yet has so much sustain.

[Elmo Benchwarmer.3025]

I find the OP is very emotional. I will just ignore the feedback.

 

 

Warning: contains humour.