GDchiaScrub.3241 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 To say Eotm should get some pips is reasonable (like cap it to half). Idc about PIPs. _BUT THEN, BUT WAIT, BUT THERE IS MORE!_ To try and argue that the rewards only come from one game mode is a bit silly. We already know ANET is inconsistent on this notion...I mean I can get HoT runes/sigils in WvW. Not to mention all the rewards track stuff from Dungeons. Why did they do this? I guess some people only play WvW (including Eotm). **Surprise twist ending shocker cliff hanging. ** What if! Humor me here, because I don't like any of the maps on some level or another. What if, people only like to play Eotm? As far as I know you can progress in reward tracks within Eotm. Not to mention PIPs is just another glorified reward track system on top of the old. The real question: Does that small niche group of players in Eotm actually impact your enjoyment ~~of the game~~ ~~game mode~~ of those 4 maps with 24/7 persistence? Let me know bros. I could just be crazy. It happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamurabi.7890 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 I'd prefer that EotM NOT have pips because growing players in WvW is more important than growing players in EotM. WvW used to get PvE players from three places. One was for map completion, now removed. Another was for Gift of Battle and the last was pre-megaserver when guilds would call for help in LA. Having pips bring players into WvW is more important than having pips in EotM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDchiaScrub.3241 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 > @Swamurabi.7890 said: > I'd prefer that EotM NOT have pips because growing players in WvW is more important than growing players in EotM. > > WvW used to get PvE players from three places. One was for map completion, now removed. Another was for Gift of Battle and the last was pre-megaserver when guilds would call for help in LA. > > Having pips bring players into WvW is more important than having pips in EotM. I want to understand more. Is the old 24/7 WvW worth bringing more players into? Obviously we don't have real stats about potential PoF influxes. I am not a server identity type of person so I don't really know (more of guild focused person). That being said, I'd say it's not because well...coverage is one reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba.3174 Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 > @Jana.6831 said: > > @Rumba.3174 said: > > If you got interest in the game mode then you are willing to learn and start asking questions in team/map chat. > Yeah exactly what I said for now over a page of this useless thread. Make up your mind - you don't even know what you want. > Iknow you did and i agreed with you. Sry if that was not clear enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba.3174 Posted October 2, 2017 Author Share Posted October 2, 2017 > @Swamurabi.7890 said: > I'd prefer that EotM NOT have pips because growing players in WvW is more important than growing players in EotM. > > WvW used to get PvE players from three places. One was for map completion, now removed. Another was for Gift of Battle and the last was pre-megaserver when guilds would call for help in LA. > > Having pips bring players into WvW is more important than having pips in EotM. Fully agree with you part from the pips, since you want the right type of players and by having pips in eotm those who perfer the loot have a place in eotm since there is never a q there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamurabi.7890 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 > @GDchiaScrub.3241 said: > > @Swamurabi.7890 said: > > I'd prefer that EotM NOT have pips because growing players in WvW is more important than growing players in EotM. > > > > WvW used to get PvE players from three places. One was for map completion, now removed. Another was for Gift of Battle and the last was pre-megaserver when guilds would call for help in LA. > > > > Having pips bring players into WvW is more important than having pips in EotM. > > I want to understand more. Is the old 24/7 WvW worth bringing more players into? Obviously we don't have real stats about potential PoF influxes. I am not a server identity type of person so I don't really know (more of guild focused person). That being said, I'd say it's not because well...coverage is one reason. Currently a minimal full server cannot come close to queues 24/7. There's plenty of room for more in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swamurabi.7890 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 > @Rumba.3174 said: > > @Swamurabi.7890 said: > > I'd prefer that EotM NOT have pips because growing players in WvW is more important than growing players in EotM. > > > > WvW used to get PvE players from three places. One was for map completion, now removed. Another was for Gift of Battle and the last was pre-megaserver when guilds would call for help in LA. > > > > Having pips bring players into WvW is more important than having pips in EotM. > > Fully agree with you part from the pips, since you want the right type of players and by having pips in eotm those who perfer the loot have a place in eotm since there is never a q there. A player that isn't the right type of WvW player that stays in WvW will eventually become the right type of player for WvW. A player looking for loot and only loot will never be the right type of player for WvW, whether they play in EotM or WvW, because as soon as they get the loot they want they leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GDchiaScrub.3241 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 > @Swamurabi.7890 said: > > @GDchiaScrub.3241 said: > > > @Swamurabi.7890 said: > > > I'd prefer that EotM NOT have pips because growing players in WvW is more important than growing players in EotM. > > > > > > WvW used to get PvE players from three places. One was for map completion, now removed. Another was for Gift of Battle and the last was pre-megaserver when guilds would call for help in LA. > > > > > > Having pips bring players into WvW is more important than having pips in EotM. > > > > I want to understand more. Is the old 24/7 WvW worth bringing more players into? Obviously we don't have real stats about potential PoF influxes. I am not a server identity type of person so I don't really know (more of guild focused person). That being said, I'd say it's not because well...coverage is one reason. > > Currently a minimal full server cannot come close to queues 24/7. There's plenty of room for more in WvW. Yep. Though I didn't say anything about queues. I mean 24/7 persistent game mode. Coverage is an issue regardless of queue or not. The cheap response would be: There's plenty of room in Eotm, and will always be plenty of room in Eotm because it dynamically expands/contracts with fluctuating populations. For 24/7 WvW you are stuck with 3 servers for a week regardless if your time zones match or not (I think EU matches up better than NA in the last month's experience). So why would I ever tell a new player to go anywhere else but Eotm (and maybe EBG), when their efforts in "Normal WvW" can be cleaned up by 10 persistent people at an odd ball time? It's so hard to get new people because I am under the impression WvW has not aged well, and is mired down by all types of balance (skill or population). Eotm at least attempts to balance out the population of week long lopsided match-ups. The map still sucks though. I doubt having a neutered pip system in Eotm will hurt anything in 2017... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarrs.4831 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 > But due to that eotm does not get the pip reward they flock over in the q and they just not into that more serious wvw thus the comanders are very restricted in what they can do. So instead of trying to get these players banished back into EOTM maybe you should try to help them integrate in your WvW community, get more active, and have more fun. Honestly- since you've said you're in a 4-queue server- it reads to me more like you don't want these players to integrate, you just want them out so you can play. If queues are seriously an issue for you, you should seriously think about leaving whichever server you've overstacked and taking yourself and your friends to a lower population server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SWI.4127 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 > @Rumba.3174 said: > Yes cause there is a difference between liking the game mode and playing it for the sole purpose of getting the loot. > If you there for the loot your interest lays just there at the loot and not the game mode, that’s the issue with those from eotm that come to core wvw. They not there for the game mode they there for the loot else they would have stayed in eotm. > If you got interest in the game mode then you are willing to learn and start asking questions in team/map chat. I really think you overestimate the number of people who are "just there for the loot". The loot isn't even all that great. The people are there because they take an interest in the mode. If they really didn't like the mode, there are way easier ways to make money playing PvE. Just reading your posts, it seems that you want queues cleared up for the more "hardcore" players and that's the only reason you want pips in EotM. To keep the casual players away. I have to say I am not completely opposed to the idea of pips in EotM (maybe fewer pips than WvW) , but your motives don't seem to be based on actually making EotM a better place, just selfish motives of making your queues easier. Maybe I got you all wrong, but that's just the impression I got reading your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ugrakarma.9416 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Eotm is too fun and good to be a mere "waiting room". i vote to they scrap the desert bordeland to be the Eotm map, and Eotm become a borderland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arricson Krei.9560 Posted October 2, 2017 Share Posted October 2, 2017 Seems to me the overall argument is: Pugs go to core WvW for pip rewards. They experience friction in core WvW for not joining VoIP/ learning organized WvW play. Now, pugs are left without pip rewards entirely because they are both unhappy with core WvW and EotM. The solution would be to add a nerfed pip system to EotM so that discouraged pugs can enjoy pip rewards. My response: No. If these pugs are running away from core WvW because they refuse to work with the zerg/team and want to run around as a zerk longbow frontline vanilla Ranger, then let them. If they get discouraged because they don't want to cooperate and _really_ contribute, then so be it. Players should be rewarded for teamplay and you will not find that with a bunch of pugs, you'll find that in organized gameplay -- in core WvW, like you said. Whether or not it's appropriate to double-down on the core WvW attitude of "squad spaces prioritize meta builds" or "some classes are much more useful to the zerg, so play those classes instead" is another thread. But as for pips being added to EotM for the arguments that you (seem to) pose, I disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekretaal.6485 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 EOTM does allow you to level up faster, which turns into more pips when you migrate to WvW. But, I agree with OP. EOTM should get pips in some sort of nerfed form. Sometimes a WvW matchup is stale, sometimes WvW itself is stale. The rewards from pips are soooo grindy, that allowing you to do something else makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blodeuyn.2751 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @nekretaal.6485 said: > EOTM does allow you to level up faster, which turns into more pips when you migrate to WvW. > > But, I agree with OP. EOTM should get pips in some sort of nerfed form. Sometimes a WvW matchup is stale, sometimes WvW itself is stale. The rewards from pips are soooo grindy, that allowing you to do something else makes sense. That's like saying you're bored of fractals so you want to go do a raid, but want fractal rewards from it. EoTM is not wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba.3174 Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > EoTM is not wvw. And then we have wiki: >@wiki >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Rumba.3174 said: > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > > EoTM is not wvw. > And then we have wiki: > >@wiki > >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**. > Lol. But yet you give no credence to the Actual Anet response in the topic. Of course, supporting your position with statements regardless of source can be an effective debate tactic with an uninformed audience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba.3174 Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @Rumba.3174 said: > > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > > > EoTM is not wvw. > > And then we have wiki: > > >@wiki > > >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**. > > > Lol. But yet you give no credence to the Actual Anet response in the topic. > > Of course, supporting your position with statements regardless of source can be an effective debate tactic with an uninformed audience. > Says the straw man :P And also takes feelings to be facts :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Rumba.3174 said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > @Rumba.3174 said: > > > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > > > > EoTM is not wvw. > > > And then we have wiki: > > > >@wiki > > > >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**. > > > > > Lol. But yet you give no credence to the Actual Anet response in the topic. > > > > Of course, supporting your position with statements regardless of source can be an effective debate tactic with an uninformed audience. > > > > Says the straw man :P And also takes feelings to be facts :P No actual reply? Speaking of straw. It's hard when someone disputes your facts that are derived from a third party source when you disregard an actual statement from the developers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba.3174 Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @Rumba.3174 said: > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > @Rumba.3174 said: > > > > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > > > > > EoTM is not wvw. > > > > And then we have wiki: > > > > >@wiki > > > > >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**. > > > > > > > Lol. But yet you give no credence to the Actual Anet response in the topic. > > > > > > Of course, supporting your position with statements regardless of source can be an effective debate tactic with an uninformed audience. > > > > > > > Says the straw man :P And also takes feelings to be facts :P > > No actual reply? Speaking of straw. > > It's hard when someone disputes your facts that are derived from a third party source when you disregard an actual statement from the developers. > I personally rulled you out to be taken serious due to the straw man u pulled and and shortly after taking feelings to be facts so yeah. How other ppl want to responde to you is up to them, but you sure not worth my time to be serious to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Rumba.3174 said: > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > @Rumba.3174 said: > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > > @Rumba.3174 said: > > > > > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > > > > > > EoTM is not wvw. > > > > > And then we have wiki: > > > > > >@wiki > > > > > >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**. > > > > > > > > > Lol. But yet you give no credence to the Actual Anet response in the topic. > > > > > > > > Of course, supporting your position with statements regardless of source can be an effective debate tactic with an uninformed audience. > > > > > > > > > > Says the straw man :P And also takes feelings to be facts :P > > > > No actual reply? Speaking of straw. > > > > It's hard when someone disputes your facts that are derived from a third party source when you disregard an actual statement from the developers. > > > I personally rulled you out to be taken serious due to the straw man u pulled and and shortly after taking feelings to be facts so yeah. > How other ppl want to responde to you is up to them, but you sure not worth my time to be serious to. Lol. No worries man. I understand when you can't actually dispute an argument. It's all good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba.3174 Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > @Rumba.3174 said: > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > @Rumba.3174 said: > > > > > @"Strider Pj.2193" said: > > > > > > @Rumba.3174 said: > > > > > > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > > > > > > > EoTM is not wvw. > > > > > > And then we have wiki: > > > > > > >@wiki > > > > > > >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**. > > > > > > > > > > > Lol. But yet you give no credence to the Actual Anet response in the topic. > > > > > > > > > > Of course, supporting your position with statements regardless of source can be an effective debate tactic with an uninformed audience. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Says the straw man :P And also takes feelings to be facts :P > > > > > > No actual reply? Speaking of straw. > > > > > > It's hard when someone disputes your facts that are derived from a third party source when you disregard an actual statement from the developers. > > > > > I personally rulled you out to be taken serious due to the straw man u pulled and and shortly after taking feelings to be facts so yeah. > > How other ppl want to responde to you is up to them, but you sure not worth my time to be serious to. > > Lol. No worries man. I understand when you can't actually dispute an argument. It's all good. That's a strong psychological projection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blodeuyn.2751 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Rumba.3174 said: > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > > EoTM is not wvw. > And then we have wiki: > >@wiki > >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**. > Hold my beer. _Edge of the Mists provides instant access to competitive play, and **can be enjoyed while you're waiting for a Mist War map**. Progress made in the **Edge of the Mists does not count toward the Mist War score** In-game description_ And: _Edge of the Mists is a World versus World map. Its purpose is to act as an extra map for players who wish to play the World versus World format and continue earning rewards even **when the official maps are full and has a separate achievement category**. Edge of the Mists serves as a testing ground for the new features that may be introduced to core WvW, and already provides a new style of gameplay on the floating islands connected by destructible bridges._ Full wiki: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists Anet has made their position clear on no pips in EoTM (it's not technically possible). The whole argument is moot. It. Is. Not. Technically. Possible. EoTM simply does not work like wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumba.3174 Posted October 3, 2017 Author Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > > @Rumba.3174 said: > > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > > > EoTM is not wvw. > > And then we have wiki: > > >@wiki > > >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**. > > > > Hold my beer. > > _Edge of the Mists provides instant access to competitive play, and **can be enjoyed while you're waiting for a Mist War map**. Progress made in the **Edge of the Mists does not count toward the Mist War score** > In-game description_ > > And: > > _Edge of the Mists is a World versus World map. Its purpose is to act as an extra map for players who wish to play the World versus World format and continue earning rewards even **when the official maps are full and has a separate achievement category**. Edge of the Mists serves as a testing ground for the new features that may be introduced to core WvW, and already provides a new style of gameplay on the floating islands connected by destructible bridges._ > > Full wiki: > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists > > Anet has made their position clear on no pips in EoTM (it's not technically possible). The whole argument is moot. It. Is. Not. Technically. Possible. EoTM simply does not work like wvw. Look at this link: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World > @wiki: > It features open-world combat on **five** large maps with up to several hundreds of players per map. You have WvW and then u have modes within WvW such as Core WvW there u have your skirmishes and mist score. Then u have Eotm the other mode within WvW. See how the WvW tab divides them (in-game)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > > @Rumba.3174 said: > > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > > > EoTM is not wvw. > > And then we have wiki: > > >@wiki > > >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**. > > > > Hold my beer. > > _Edge of the Mists provides instant access to competitive play, and **can be enjoyed while you're waiting for a Mist War map**. Progress made in the **Edge of the Mists does not count toward the Mist War score** > In-game description_ > > And: > > _Edge of the Mists is a World versus World map. Its purpose is to act as an extra map for players who wish to play the World versus World format and continue earning rewards even **when the official maps are full and has a separate achievement category**. Edge of the Mists serves as a testing ground for the new features that may be introduced to core WvW, and already provides a new style of gameplay on the floating islands connected by destructible bridges._ > > Full wiki: > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists > > Anet has made their position clear on no pips in EoTM (it's not technically possible). The whole argument is moot. It. Is. Not. Technically. Possible. EoTM simply does not work like wvw. I'll give you a second beer for that. Reality is, he won't listen. It would appear to this straw man that he doesn't want new players or pugs or loot seekers in HIS maps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blodeuyn.2751 Posted October 3, 2017 Share Posted October 3, 2017 > @Rumba.3174 said: > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > > > @Rumba.3174 said: > > > > @Blodeuyn.2751 said: > > > > EoTM is not wvw. > > > And then we have wiki: > > > >@wiki > > > >Edge of the Mists is a **World versus World** map. It act as an extra map for players who wish to **play World versus World**. > > > > > > > Hold my beer. > > > > _Edge of the Mists provides instant access to competitive play, and **can be enjoyed while you're waiting for a Mist War map**. Progress made in the **Edge of the Mists does not count toward the Mist War score** > > In-game description_ > > > > And: > > > > _Edge of the Mists is a World versus World map. Its purpose is to act as an extra map for players who wish to play the World versus World format and continue earning rewards even **when the official maps are full and has a separate achievement category**. Edge of the Mists serves as a testing ground for the new features that may be introduced to core WvW, and already provides a new style of gameplay on the floating islands connected by destructible bridges._ > > > > Full wiki: > > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Edge_of_the_Mists > > > > Anet has made their position clear on no pips in EoTM (it's not technically possible). The whole argument is moot. It. Is. Not. Technically. Possible. EoTM simply does not work like wvw. > > Look at this link: > https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_versus_World > > @wiki: > > It features open-world combat on **five** large maps with up to several hundreds of players per map. I'm running out of beer. The 5 maps listed on the left of the UI shown in the wiki includes Obsidian Sanctum (not even going to get into an OS argument). Otherwise it would state 6 maps. And: _Getting there Asura gates located at Lion's Arch Point of Interest Mist Portals lead to each WvW map. Each WvW map has asura gates to travel to other WvW maps. Waypoints can be used to travel between WvW maps if the player is already in a WvW map_ I must have missed that EoTM portal in the citadel, my bad. And: _Interface The interface used in Borderlands and Eternal Battlegrounds at the top of your screen. **Edge of the Mists uses a different interface.**_ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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