Discussion: Command Line Option Changes [Merged]

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

> @"HardRider.2980" said:

> May I ask why it's taken this long then to get rid of those command lines if security was such an issue.

> I understand why on a security level, I don't understand how it's taken soo long and that no alternative was offered.

> It's an inconvenience yes.. but it's a BIG one

 

For the very reasons that everyone is asking it to be brought back. Every security decision includes trading off more convenience for more risk. In the past, ANet was content to allow the convenience and let us decide on the risk. Recently, there have been more than a few publicly discussed cases of people whose accounts were put into dispute because they (seemed to have) made such a trade off without properly assessing the risk. I would hope that they didn't change policies based on "a few cases," but I imagine if we've seen a few, then ANet has seen many.

 

Without their data, it's impossible to know if there's been an increase in problems or if it just turned out that ANet was willing to let us choose in the past, and now it thinks that's a bad idea.

 

tl;dr it's possible the risk changed; it's also possible that ANet is willing to accept less risk

 

****

> I don't understand ... that no alternative was offered.

It's nearly free to disable command line options (can just comment out the part of the code that processes it or have the code translate it into something neutral). It's expensive to offer a **new** option for secure logon on multiple accounts using saved credentials.

 

So yeah, it would have been nicer for us if ANet had coded Plan B first. I imagine that they were content to let 3rd party devs figure out something.

[ArmoredVehicle.2849]

> @"YaoMitachi.2397" said:

> This decision also has an impact on Linux users. The game itself works very well in Wine today, but the launcher absolutely does not. It has a high tendency to freeze the desktop, and has for some time now. Emulating a virtual desktop in Wine can mitigate this particular issue, but that causes a bigger issue: the inability to move the camera more than 180 degrees in-game due to the cursor invisibly hitting the edge of the virtual desktop. So that's a no-go.

>

> Until now, I used the -email, -password, -autologin, and -nopatchui options to avoid the launcher entirely. (Of course, I would still need to use the launcher sometimes, when an update comes out... unfortunately.) And now that's gone.

>

> I know Arenanet doesn't offer support for Linux users, but they should at least know the wider impact that this decision had.

>

> https://lutris.net/games/guild-wars-2/

> https://bugs.winehq.org/show_bug.cgi?id=32010

>

> Is there at least some workaround available for me?

 

I can't say for sure what may be causing that, for me it's working fine on Linux, even with this change. We can continue the discussion here if you wish: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/31192/playing-guild-wars-2-on-linux-performance-optimizations-and-more/p8

 

I can try to help you track down the issue.

[Kreony.6240]

I do NOT want this change, REENABLE them!!!!!!

[Kim.4152]

Please ANET reverse this change. As someone with disabilities, managing 2 accounts is now very cumbersome and frustrating.

 

Prior to instituting a change such as this, ANET should have modified the launcher to save the credentials for more than one account. Security must not have been that big an issue considering that the command line options had been available for more than 6 years without ANET feeling the need to address.

 

Perhaps ANET should think of customers with diabilities before making changes that cause major inconvenience.

[Yasi.9065]

> @"Crackmonster.2790" said:

> > @"Kyranna.1730" said:

> > > @"Crackmonster.2790" said:

> > > > @"Vash.2386" said:

> > > > > @"Crackmonster.2790" said:

> > > That doesn't have anything to do with what i said.

> > >

> > > You may have invested both money, and time each time you have to carry it out - but you reap also rewards that a player is supposed to get once per day, a multitude of times. The reason you do it, is because it pays off big time.

> > >

> > >

> > If Anet, the publisher of the game, makes it possible to have, and specifically allows, multiple accounts and multiboxing, then I don't see how one person playing one account is how it's supposed to be. That's like telling someone no you can't get a second job to make more money because you're only supposed to have one job. Says who?

> >

> You are missing the point again.

>

> I am not telling you, that you shouldn't do it. I know very well, people will do anything within the laws(and many outside) to maximize their gain, that is just our nature. Moral irregardless. And i am not here to tell people what person they should be. Do you, and ill speak on how things relates to me.

>

> However, do you really think the devs created daily rewards and gatherings hoping that people would spend time logging in on different accounts to gain stuff in game rather than playing the actual game? And even if in the case that they made it legal hoping players would buy more accounts etc, it still does not take away from the fact that it reduces the value of everyone else's gains who just plays normally. But i honestly think it is just done because it would be impossible to justly prevent people from playing different accounts same computer etc, for example a family.

>

> There is no way you will convince me otherwise and i think i have said all i could say on the topic - i do accept that people will do it if it is possible, but i for one am not in favor of "using" the game terms that way. Just like MTX in a perfect world would be nice if was earned in game - but that will never be realistic. But anytime i get stuff earnable ingame i consider it just a nice bonus(expecting nothing), just as here i consider it a nice bonus if it is less attractive to multiaccount because it is a boost to my preferred playstyle(sticking to actually playing the game). That's all.

>

> As for your strawman - you can't just legally pay to create new government identities so you can reap multiple welfare bonuses and the like either. Your two job analogy is more like, if i wanna spend 10h farming i should get twice as much for that period as the one who spends 5h farming, which you do.

>

> Why do you think they keep imposing limits to for example chests per account in istan etc, so people can buy more alt accounts? Harh Harh.

>

> But don't worry, someone will write some code to circumvent this. I mean, i could even make something myself with autohotkey, so someone with proper knowledge will make something. It can be done, maybe it would be slightly more troublesome, but it can be done with 1 click.

 

You are taking this game WAY too seriously if you compare login rewards with welfare checks. This game is buy2play, multiple accounts are part of that. Live with it.

 

On topic:

Just removing a feature *ALWAYS* is a bad solution. And it wasnt even an "abused" function meant to do something differently. No. Those start arguments where **specifically** there to skip the launcher and directly log into character selection screen. With a long standing history even. Just removing them... Without forewarning. Without alternative. Anet, how did you EVER think that was a good idea?

 

Changing something like that after roughly a decade of offering it as a feature and then saying its because of security concerns... Im sorry... but that reeks of excuse.

 

Honestly, if someone gets so far as to access the shortcuts on your desktop he pretty surely has access to text files containing personal information and can install a keylogger. From a security standpoint, this change is so horribly pointless, its offending.

 

It would actually be WAY securer to offer a launcher that can store encrypted login information for multiple accounts.

 

This change is NOT about security. Its about anet wanting to cover their own asses and about forcing players to use the launcher. Everyone thinking otherwise, Im sorry, is getting duped.

[zellurs.8601]

Still waiting on an update as to:

1) why this was decided to be done now after the game has been out for over 6+ years

2) why no alternative methods were offered.

3) Why arenanet didn't take into account the **VARIOUS** issues presented by players in this very thread into account when flipping this switch.

4) when we can expect a viable alternative from arenanet

 

This feels far less to do with security, and more to do with the fact that Arenanet wants you to see their launcher so they can throw more ads at you or harass you to sign up for SMS. Neither of which I have any interest in.

 

I don't think I can articulate how bad of a taste this left in my mouth. To suggest that it's due to security is a slap in the face for the people who know the risks and have not been compromised in their time playing this game.

 

I can't stress enough how important it is to me that this change is reversed.

[Kron.6938]

Why would you implement something after having 2FA installed for SMS? Once we verified the IP that is logging in from a certain account, you should be able to determine suspicious activity. And stating additional security is ludicrous, are hackers trying to spoof the IP address and the MAC address as well? I call kitten.

[TatsuKan.5412]

I have 16 accounts and I was managing 14 of them using the command line parameter.

I knew that this is not secure. But my parameters are store in a veracrypt container that does not stay constantly open.

 

Now, I don't know how I'm going to manage them.

Obviously, it's going to be a pain ...

 

Why do Arenanet did not think to provide something to manage multiple accounts before removing a feature...

[TatsuKan.5412]

> @"Kron.6938" said:

> Why would you implement something after having 2FA installed for SMS? Once we verified the IP that is logging in from a certain account, you should be able to determine suspicious activity. And stating additional security is ludicrous, are hackers trying to spoof the IP address and the MAC address as well? I call kitten.

 

That's already the case

[avey.4201]

> @"Silveress.5197" said:

> > @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> > But security > convenience, as I'm sure you'll appreciate.

>

> So why not disallow anyone who does not have 2FA enabled from logging in, I mean, no 2FA is insecure, right?

> If ye are going to use that as a shield you have to commit fully

>

>

 

As someone who doesn't own a cellphone, and also lives more than a mile from the nearest spot of cell service the launcher is stupidly annoying already.

There should be a never show this dialogue again option.

I've lost accounts over the years when changing passwords, because you cant send text to a land line, and companies have smoked their self stupid thinking everyone owns a cellular phone.

[OutOfMyMind.9613]

First of all I HATE this change, as it makes using my 4 accounts a real chore. I use a small app called GW2 LUA that keeps the passwords encrypted and also 2FA, so that should satisfy the security issue. As far as password managers - does KeePass actually fill in the GW2 launch/patch window? I use Norton Identity Safe for my password manager and it only fills in browsers with a plugin.

[Kyranna.1730]

> @"OutOfMyMind.9613" said:

> First of all I HATE this change, as it makes using my 4 accounts a real chore. I use a small app called GW2 LUA that keeps the passwords encrypted and also 2FA, so that should satisfy the security issue. As far as password managers - does KeePass actually fill in the GW2 launch/patch window? I use Norton Identity Safe for my password manager and it only fills in browsers with a plugin.

 

Yes, KeePass will autopopulate the user ID and password fields. You launch the GW2 client, then right-click on the KeePass entry for an account and choose "Perform Auto-Type" (or Cntrl-V), and it'll fill in the fields and enter. If you check the box that says start automatically, it'll do that after 5 seconds.

[OutOfMyMind.9613]

Ok this brings up a further question. Once you have 1 client open to an account how do you open the same client again to start another account. The main reason I use this is so my 2 alt NA accounts can harvest in my main NA account's home instance. I know about -shareArchive, but when I go to open the second client launcher nothing happens.

[Kyranna.1730]

Sorry, can't help you there--I use KeePass to log in to my accounts in succession, not at the same time. But I also have a cheapie old laptop in addition to my main gaming laptop that, while you can't really play the game on it without suffering crippling fps, is perfectly fine for home instance harvesting or mesmer porting.

 

I did at once point do multiboxing on a single computer using the method outlined here (the 2nd option, the manual way):

 

http://guildwars2.rocks/multiboxing/

 

... not sure if that method still works or not.

 

[Healix.5819]

> @"OutOfMyMind.9613" said:

> I know about -shareArchive, but when I go to open the second client launcher nothing happens.

 

GW2 only allows 1 client to be opened at a time. If you want to open more than 1, you need to kill the mutex that the client creates. Doing this will require additional software (such as handle.exe or Process Explorer), or alternatively, you can run a powershell script (old example). If you just want to run multiple accounts, it'd be much easier to simply use Gw2Launcher.

[Esty.8352]

> @"Gaile Gray.6029" said:

> I'm really sorry that some of you are unhappy with this change. I'd like to reiterate that the decision was based solely on our concerns for player security. Theories about alternative motivations for the change are completely baseless.

>

> I notice at least one person state that those who used the system were fully aware it was an "at your own risk" situation, and that every user would be aware of any security risks that they were taking on. I have to dispute that. I don't believe that everyone knew of the risks, nor that every single user willingly accepted them. It would be provably inaccurate to state, "I knew it was risky, therefore every other user knew that, too."

>

> As stated [here](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/65546/policy-dual-or-multi-boxing "here"), we have no objections to players using multiple accounts, when that use follows the proscribed limitations. The change today was decidedly **not** a means of trying to limit or halt multi-boxing, nor was it developed as a means of inconveniencing those who play with multiple accounts. If you are inconvenienced, we're sorry. But security > convenience, as I'm sure you'll appreciate.

 

So from her second paragraph, the problem could be stated as some users may have used the email/password parameters without understanding the risk. So instead of removing them, why not add a -acceptrisk parameter which requires the user first go through a one-time risk acceptance page on their account screen to get a unique code value to put into that parameter. This way users that are willing to accept the risk can still do so and people that do not understand the risk won't be able to use them without first going through the process (which hopefully will also educate them on the risks).

 

The funny thing is I have been playing the game for years and wasn't even aware of these options until I saw this thread. I do have a second mule account which I log in to on occasion, but entering the credentials hasn't really been an issue for me. So I am only providing my input from a purely problem-solving perspective.

 

[CETheLucid.3964]

Wise choice,

 

> @"mtpelion.4562" said:

> May I recommend that you folks obtain a password management tool like KeePass to store your credentials? It will allow you to have insanely complex passwords that do not need to be remembered because it will type your username and password into the login fields for you when you are ready to switch accounts.

 

And bumping this for visibility. It's a game changer. Figuratively and literally.

[Alimar.8760]

While I understand the reasoning. I still don't agree that just because it was a cheaper solution to delete the command line arguments, that it was the right choice. Security or not. We should have other options available to us to have multiple accounts saved on the client launcher. Plenty of people talk about a drop tab and that would probably be a preferable option. It would at least provide people the convenience that we crave since this got disabled, and there's no reason why they can't update the launcher to no longer be limited to just 1 secure account and password. It's been more about convenience from what I've read, than multiboxing.

 

Also I don't understand why this wasn't announced in the patch notes or even mentioned ahead of said patch. Left for a small forum post that most might not even be read.

 

Outside of that, I think this is going to spur on another 3rd party software to take care of all these things for us automatically(again), anyways.

Suddenly we're back to square one where the security threat is still out there but now it's completely out of Anet's hands. Even with the Two-Factor Authentication accounts were still relatively secure even if the password was stolen. That was kind of the point of Two-Factor.

 

[fatihso.7258]

I don't trust company anymore, what if they ruin .dat method, too? We better get ready for the worst. Yes I have only few accounts, but it's still sweet to gather dailies.

[SwanDive.8651]

> @"Mireles Lore.5942" said:

> "...The remember account name and password function is not a sufficient solution since it only remembers a single account.

>

> If you use this feature and would like it restored please let Anet know here. If there is a security issue with this information being stored on private machines, the solution should be to make the feature function in a secure manner before removing the function. (Isn't it stored in local.dat in plain text anyway?) To totally remove it is the lazy fix and deprives players of something that has functioned for years without issue. Removing functionality is never a positive thing for players. Things can be done better than this."

 

This makes me want to play the game that much less. I personally have three accounts; one main and two alternative accounts. This change has made it less efficient for me to do dailies across the board on all of my accounts and then resume the content that I'd like to get to in order to enjoy Guild Wars 2. Multi-boxing for myself, and probably others, is a nice quality of life feature that we have enjoyed for some time. Anet, revert this decision and change this back to what it was prior. It is our choice what we do with our account information.

 

 

[Holy Security.9724]

> @"Crackmonster.2790" said:

> > @"Holy Security.9724" said:

> > > @"Crackmonster.2790" said:

> > > This is excellent, anything for reducing those who don't play straightforward but try and get more than others. Even if that wasn't the intention.

> > >

> > > I don't have much good to say about multiboxers, running multiple accounts so they can get manyfold the rewards of normal honest players, or overcome challenges that weren't meant to just be facerolled by a single player. This is not something that is good, but ofc those who do it will argue to death it's sooo good, because they can get manyfold the rewards.

> > >

> > > Essentially just people willing to abuse game mechanics for getting more than the normal honest player.

> > >

> > > I mean, really, did you expect me to have any sympathy towards the guys who come here to complain its harder for them to just load up all their accounts so they can grind their home instance for mega rewards?

> > >

> > > They are directly leeching off everyone, reducing values of things for everyone normal. It's just the same as a societal leecher who doesn't do kitten but takes all the benefits from taxes. Everyone else ends up paying for it, except here it's not because of good reasons that everyone should pay.

> >

> > What puts you off doing the same? Your morality? Welcome to the real world, my friend, where morality is so small it barely even exists. Multiboxing is allowed and still easily doable with self written stuff. Nothing has changed, nothing will change. Unless they completely forbid multiboxing and IP track this. But this will be the nail in the coffin for gw2 all together

> Wisdom

> Coz i do not want a game balanced around such hassles.

>

> Can you believe it, i have foreseen that spending my time loggin in and out and whatnot szoning around boring areas instead of playing the game isn't the way i think leads to best game quality.

> :O

>

 

Nobody FORCES you to do it. This is just a statement about "I like this and dislike that. Make stuff I dislike bad. LULz thank you".

There were certainly many people enjoying this. Why? I dont know. Yes, it was profitable. Was it braindead? For sure, I tried it once for just 2hours. I wanted to end myself.

Is it the most profitable way of earning gold? Heck no. Raid selling and TP flipping outmatches this by a mile. Not forgetting the fractal runs once per day (which outmatch them when you compare the gold/time played not taking repeatable stuff into account).

While I agree with you that Istan was far off of what you and I would call "enjoyable" I didnt mind the guys who liked it. Gold is a thing that got stripped off its real value long time ago since the game throws more money on you then you could actually spend.

 

[Meehael.8240]

Anet, pls return the feature. I have three PCs and three GW2 accounts, and my household members are switching playing PCs often.

Before, we had three GW2 shortcuts on Windows desktop, one for each account, on each PC, and it was easy to switch.

Maybe add account selection to the launcher, like in Minecraft? It's easier to only type the password, but to type both, the email and password.

[Denise.8145]

Plz bring the option back :-(

[Aragorn.5462]

There are plenty of ways for us to secure this information without storing it in a shortcut, but removing this feature makes it frustrating for folks with multiple accounts. As of now I'm storing my login information in an even more insecure way because I have to manually type in the information, which means it's no longer encrypted inside launch buddy. Please revert so I can keep my login information more secure.

[Styrbjorn.9147]

Just stopping by to say that the decision to remove -email and - password should be reversed.

 

Also, for the one (?) person I saw squawk about people that have more than one account and how that's unfair to them. Please don't cry over a situation you've created. Nobody is forcing you to play the game in a particular style and we should be understanding of those that have a different style of game play. Yeah, a person will get more daily rewards. Most of them are account bound. Can they harvest home nodes more, sure. They **paid** for the extra accounts and they do the **work** of collecting the extra mats or the **work** of doing extra events. I have 2 accounts. I can't imagine having 20 in this game but don't care either. If you paid the money and you do the work, you're entitled to the profits.

 

If you own a one cow farm and your neighbor owns a farm with 50 head of cattle you don't get to complain that life isn't fair if you could get 50 yourself. If you only want the one cow and you only want that amount of work, then be satisfied with what you get. But don't whine about others that are willing to spend more, work harder and make more of a profit.

 

And keep the whole experience of playing this game in perspective. Hopefully you're playing for fun. It's just a game. When you're done playing on any given day, you have nothing to hold onto. You're not making real money. The game isn't adding years to your life or doing anything for you in the real world besides perhaps making some friends.

 

I have a ton of "money" in GW1. Mules full of stacks of ecto, Guild Halls with Xunlai storages that are maxed out in gold, lots of armbraces and a ton of other stuff I could liquidate if i ever needed the money (which I won't). The point is, all that loot doesn't pay the rent, utilities, doesn't put food on the table or pay for repairs, medical bills or vacations. Nothing you'll ever earn in these games will help you in the real world. If they shut the game down, you'll have nothing to show for it. And if you die, the game will continue and not even pause to recognize your death and 99% of the players will never even know you played the game. So enjoy the game in balance. If you're a casual that's cool, if you're a hardcore player, it's your choice. But don't get carried away with thinking the game cares about you or that you should let the game define you by whether you have little or a lot.

 

To each their own in terms of game play. Enjoy the game first of all. If you're not enjoying the game find something else to do. Don't let other players take away your fun (if it can be helped). Take a break from time to time. This is coming from someone who has been confined to a wheelchair for over 20 years. There's a lot to enjoy in the real world and it'd be a shame to forsake that enjoyment for slavery to a game.

 

Stay safe out there and have fun! :)

 

P.S. Now you see why my friends don't let me near a pulpit! XD