Stop Mesmer Never-Ending Nerfs!! -Rework!!--Save Mesmer!!

[Amaranthe.3578]

Boy you are taking the game way too seriously.

[Cicada.6298]

the "flavor" of Mesmer/Mirage is well-done in game; it just seems too effective in pvp.

 

Confuse/Distract/Misdirection/Trolling is fine, but it shouldn't be able to kill/sustain so easily -- if distraction and misdirection is the idea, that sounds more like a support role.

[Ganathar.4956]

How about Anet rework professions that actually need it instead of reworking mesmer every year?

 

All that mesmer needs is a few nerfs to get rid of the unnecessary bloat thiat it has compared to most other professions.

[apharma.3741]

The GW2 community cannot handle GW1 mesmer, you think the QQ is bad about current condi mirage? Amplify it by 2-3 times and you might get close to the crying that mesmer would generate if it was closer to GW1.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> The GW2 community cannot handle GW1 mesmer, you think the QQ is bad about current condi mirage? Amplify it by 2-3 times and you might get close to the crying that mesmer would generate if it was closer to GW1.

 

Mesmer interrupts putting skills on full cooldown alone would cause an ocean of boiling piss to shoot out of everyone's eyes even with clones being removed.

[Swagg.9236]

While Mirage is about as close to "master of misdirection" as this game has ever attempted to present, no one should be able to attack with impunity while under the aegis of protracted invulnerability. The only way to balance this sort of ability is either with a risk-riddled charge-up mechanic or by concurrently stripping the user of all out-going effects. Either mesmer isn't invulnerable at all, or gets to be invulnerable, but only as some sort of bizarre support role.

 

GW1 Mesmer does exist in GW2: it's staff ele because it's the only true control and area hazard spec. However, everyone has stability and/or teleports, so it doesn't really have any effect on the field. Funny how that works.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> While Mirage is about as close to "master of misdirection" as this game has ever attempted to present, no one should be able to attack with impunity while under the aegis of protracted invulnerability. The only way to balance this sort of ability is either with a risk-riddled charge-up mechanic or by concurrently stripping the user of all out-going effects. Either mesmer isn't invulnerable at all, or gets to be invulnerable, but only as some sort of bizarre support role.

>

> GW1 Mesmer does exist in GW2: it's staff ele because it's the only true control and area hazard spec. However, everyone has stability and/or teleports, so it doesn't really have any effect on the field. Funny how that works.

 

Staff Elementalist isn't even remotely close to GW1's mirage playstyle. Like... at all. GW1 Mesmers basically pick targets and tell them "You don't get to contribute anything this fight. You skills fail. You're skills are interrupted. You energy is drained. You literally contribute nothing until I decided to let you."

[Burnfall.9573]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > While Mirage is about as close to "master of misdirection" as this game has ever attempted to present, no one should be able to attack with impunity while under the aegis of protracted invulnerability. The only way to balance this sort of ability is either with a risk-riddled charge-up mechanic or by concurrently stripping the user of all out-going effects. Either mesmer isn't invulnerable at all, or gets to be invulnerable, but only as some sort of bizarre support role.

> >

> > GW1 Mesmer does exist in GW2: it's staff ele because it's the only true control and area hazard spec. However, everyone has stability and/or teleports, so it doesn't really have any effect on the field. Funny how that works.

>

> Staff Elementalist isn't even remotely close to GW1's mirage playstyle. Like... at all. GW1 Mesmers basically pick targets and tell them ' **You don't get to contribute anything this fight. You skills fail. You're skills are interrupted. You energy is drained. You literally contribute nothing until I decided to let you** '

 

I like this line; It fits well with Mesmer persona

[Ovark.2514]

I like how the moderators have effectively given up on combining the condi mirage threads. I think last I checked the top 3 or 4 were all different threads about this subject.

[apharma.3741]

> @"Ovark.2514" said:

> I like how the moderators have effectively given up on combining the condi mirage threads. I think last I checked the top 3 or 4 were all different threads about this subject.

 

Well when you cultivate a player base of casual players who are openly hostile to the possibility of thinking and learning to play what do you expect? We're just missing twitch thots and....oh wait.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > While Mirage is about as close to "master of misdirection" as this game has ever attempted to present, no one should be able to attack with impunity while under the aegis of protracted invulnerability. The only way to balance this sort of ability is either with a risk-riddled charge-up mechanic or by concurrently stripping the user of all out-going effects. Either mesmer isn't invulnerable at all, or gets to be invulnerable, but only as some sort of bizarre support role.

> > >

> > > GW1 Mesmer does exist in GW2: it's staff ele because it's the only true control and area hazard spec. However, everyone has stability and/or teleports, so it doesn't really have any effect on the field. Funny how that works.

> >

> > Staff Elementalist isn't even remotely close to GW1's mirage playstyle. Like... at all. GW1 Mesmers basically pick targets and tell them ' **You don't get to contribute anything this fight. You skills fail. You're skills are interrupted. You energy is drained. You literally contribute nothing until I decided to let you** '

>

> I like this line; It fits well with Mesmer persona

 

If you think mesmer is oppressive now. Imagine confusion condi mesmers except now they also have another condition that causes blowout damage if you _don't_ use skills and will hit you with both at the same time.

[Zenix.6198]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

 

> Funny enough, mesmer players have been the ones saying ambushes need a look at, some, in which I'm included have been arguing IH needs to be baseline in order for ambushes to get an easier balance, while it's not baseline ambushes are weak or strong as kitten.

> Of those you mentioned axe is really strong, scepter ambush is meh at best, staff is so so, with IH that is, without IH they're all on the "meh" side.

 

I mean.....I kinda agree with you. But for PvP at least the axe ambush is far too strong. And personally I think Staff ambush also is really good. You are right about scepter ambush tho....its kinda meh. That weapon has other issues altogether.

 

Then again, Im also fine with ambush skills being on the "meh side" without IH.

The gameplay it inspires is just too spammy. And looking out for ambush skills on top of shatters and all the other "mini-condi-bursts" (like pistol / torch) is just too much.

And personally I'm fine with mirages keeping their condi-bursts (those a tleast are hit or miss)...it's really their sustained flow of condies (from ambushes) that just rubs me the wrong way.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Zenix.6198" said:

> And personally I'm fine with mirages keeping their condi-bursts (those a tleast are hit or miss)...it's really their sustained flow of condies (from ambushes) that just rubs me the wrong way.

 

Most mesmers agree with this aswell, since a long time we've been saying condi application should be toned down.

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Zenix.6198" said:

> > And personally I'm fine with mirages keeping their condi-bursts (those a tleast are hit or miss)...it's really their sustained flow of condies (from ambushes) that just rubs me the wrong way.

>

> Most mesmers agree with this aswell, since a long time we've been saying condi application should be toned down.

 

Even that would be okay for me, if they would have to sacrafice sustain for it. Change mirage evade to not work during stun (and maybe immobilize?), give that functionality to Elusive Mind and get rid of that ridiculous exhaustion nonsense. Let mirage choose between damage with ambushes and defense with EM. Choices are interesting!

 

Not gonna argue with the amount of cover conditions though. :smile:

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Zenix.6198" said:

> > > And personally I'm fine with mirages keeping their condi-bursts (those a tleast are hit or miss)...it's really their sustained flow of condies (from ambushes) that just rubs me the wrong way.

> >

> > Most mesmers agree with this aswell, since a long time we've been saying condi application should be toned down.

>

> Even that would be okay for me, if they would have to sacrafice sustain for it. Change mirage evade to not work during stun (and maybe immobilize?), give that functionality to Elusive Mind and get rid of that ridiculous exhaustion nonsense. Let mirage choose between damage with ambushes and defense with EM. Choices are interesting!

>

> Not gonna argue with the amount of cover conditions though. :smile:

 

Disagree with EM being able to evade while stun bit. Would prefer EM to cleanse one condi and - one soft cc cleanse or -20% CD on deception skills.

 

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > > @"Zenix.6198" said:

> > > > And personally I'm fine with mirages keeping their condi-bursts (those a tleast are hit or miss)...it's really their sustained flow of condies (from ambushes) that just rubs me the wrong way.

> > >

> > > Most mesmers agree with this aswell, since a long time we've been saying condi application should be toned down.

> >

> > Even that would be okay for me, if they would have to sacrafice sustain for it. Change mirage evade to not work during stun (and maybe immobilize?), give that functionality to Elusive Mind and get rid of that ridiculous exhaustion nonsense. Let mirage choose between damage with ambushes and defense with EM. Choices are interesting!

> >

> > Not gonna argue with the amount of cover conditions though. :smile:

>

> Disagree with EM being able to evade while stun bit. Would prefer EM to cleanse one condi and - one soft cc cleanse or -20% CD on deception skills.

>

 

Well, the weaker mirage evade gets the better. I just want that incredibly strong mechanic not baseline. :wink:

[DragonSlayer.1087]

PvP right now is swarming with condi mesmers... it's ridiculous. >.> If there's two of them in an enemy team, you're screwed.

[Swagg.9236]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > While Mirage is about as close to "master of misdirection" as this game has ever attempted to present, no one should be able to attack with impunity while under the aegis of protracted invulnerability. The only way to balance this sort of ability is either with a risk-riddled charge-up mechanic or by concurrently stripping the user of all out-going effects. Either mesmer isn't invulnerable at all, or gets to be invulnerable, but only as some sort of bizarre support role.

> >

> > GW1 Mesmer does exist in GW2: it's staff ele because it's the only true control and area hazard spec. However, everyone has stability and/or teleports, so it doesn't really have any effect on the field. Funny how that works.

>

> Staff Elementalist isn't even remotely close to GW1's mirage playstyle. Like... at all. GW1 Mesmers basically pick targets and tell them "You don't get to contribute anything this fight. You skills fail. You're skills are interrupted. You energy is drained. You literally contribute nothing until I decided to let you."

 

It's a ranged caster that deals high amounts of damage while also inflicting crippling CC, and it will destroy anybody 1v1 if they lack teleport spam and stability. God help you if you play a necromancer around me: the moment you don't have stability, you stop playing the game because I'm pressing my buttons now; and that basically goes for anyone else who is caught in a moment of rotation cooldown or without panic buttons. Given how that was exactly what happened to anybody who approached a Mesmer in GW1 (a game that didn't have many teleports and lacked stability entirely), it's effectively the same. And aside from the staff kit itself, Tornado on its own is basically the effect of an entire E-surge bar at the press of a button.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Swagg.9236" said:

> > > While Mirage is about as close to "master of misdirection" as this game has ever attempted to present, no one should be able to attack with impunity while under the aegis of protracted invulnerability. The only way to balance this sort of ability is either with a risk-riddled charge-up mechanic or by concurrently stripping the user of all out-going effects. Either mesmer isn't invulnerable at all, or gets to be invulnerable, but only as some sort of bizarre support role.

> > >

> > > GW1 Mesmer does exist in GW2: it's staff ele because it's the only true control and area hazard spec. However, everyone has stability and/or teleports, so it doesn't really have any effect on the field. Funny how that works.

> >

> > Staff Elementalist isn't even remotely close to GW1's mirage playstyle. Like... at all. GW1 Mesmers basically pick targets and tell them "You don't get to contribute anything this fight. You skills fail. You're skills are interrupted. You energy is drained. You literally contribute nothing until I decided to let you."

>

> It's a ranged caster that deals high amounts of damage while also inflicting crippling CC, and it will destroy anybody 1v1 if they lack teleport spam and stability. God help you if you play a necromancer around me: the moment you don't have stability, you stop playing the game because I'm pressing my buttons now; and that basically goes for anyone else who is caught in a moment of rotation cooldown or without panic buttons. Given how that was exactly what happened to anybody who approached a Mesmer in GW1 (a game that didn't have many teleports and lacked stability entirely), it's effectively the same. And aside from the staff kit itself, Tornado on its own is basically the effect of an entire E-surge bar at the press of a button.

 

Oh I remember! You made that video of you playing staff Ele in plat! That was a great video to watch. Also +1 for recognizing Capricorn sucks for peel out strategies.

 

GW1 mesmer would be like a halfway point between Staff Ele and GW2 mesmer. See GW2 mesmer does hearken back to both GW1 mesmers as well as classic illusionists that mesmers have always drawn inspiration from. Confusion, Torment, it's heavy access to blind, it's interrupts and all the value it can get out of interrupts are veeeery GW1 mesmer. More so than Elementalist's crowd control. The problem with mesmer is the minionmancer gameplay slapped on top of it.

 

Illusionists since D&D Dragon Magazine #1 have summoned copies of themselves to fool opponents. That's literally the 70's and 80s. Even stuff like Blurred Frenzy and Distortion are classic illusionist spells as illusionists have historically used illusions to blurr their image and make them more difficult to hit. So I don't mind that being rolled into mesmer. But summoning swarms of minions, sacrificing them at key times for powerful effects, summoning more powerful minions on long cooldowns with strong singular effects. That's classic minion master gameplay more befitting of necromancers than illusionists. Mesmers summoning clones to disrupt opponents is fine, but everything revolving around clones and shatters was a flavor mistake. That should really have been Necromancer's class mechanic, minions and sacrifices.

 

But I feel I've strayed far off topic at this point.