Few small scale builds that need a nerf hammer

[ArchonWing.9480]

?????

 

People are getting rekt by CoR in small scale? I mean I guess if you're fighting 1v3 and someone sneaks behind you with a CoR, but they could probably finish you off with anything.

 

lol i dunno, it seems pretty low on the list of priorities. I agree condi mes is a disease and so is malicious backstab deadeye. The pew pew variant isn't really that awful anymore since the reveal everywhere seems to have done it a lot of bad.

 

Not that it matters. "If it's not a raid balance issue, it doesn't exist." -- Probably the "balance" team. I use that term lightly.

[whoknocks.4935]

WvW shouldn't be balanced around roaming specs, roaming is already semi dead and it's hard to find fair and fun fight, it's all a gank from groups against single players.

 

The roaming specs who needs adjustments are:

 

Condi mirage: too easy even for a noob who jump on mirage for the first time to be good at it and feel like a god(trailblazers dire stats are the carrying dudes here) completely different from a full zerk power mirage version which needs baits timing and skill to be good at.

 

Deadeye: they nerfed daredevil and core thief leaving this abomination untouched (dj blockable and marked system is a nonsense nerf, i could already dodge it pretty easily doesn't make a difference), but the dodge on stealth which has zero counters whatsoever is the stupid thing about it, make it only 1 second duration or even less and make the reveal last like 10 seconds.

 

Boonbeast: this build is cancer in spvp, in wvw due to zero nerf on the stances cd is cancer having cancer, it regens 4-5% health every single second just by having protection and regeneration on, easy to play, you can afford 10 thousand mistakes and still win a fight, build made for unskilled players who thinks they are good pro roamers when instead even a monkey can play that build and kill you when it's not deserved. (For example a good core thief who lands perfectly all his skill on boonbeast will end up dying because the sustain is too high and can't bypass it, and so a worse player can win on a better one.

 

 

Holosmith: even tho the removal of passive invuln was nice, still this spec has too much damage sustain, mobility options, it's at the same level of boonbeast, even a monkey can become good at it in few hours.

 

[MUDse.7623]

> @"UmbraNoctis.1907" said:

> How fun a build is to play relies on a lot more than just the opponents. Many players don't play off-meta builds just for the sake of playing something subpar. They simply don't enjoy the meta builds because of the playstyle, mechanics or whatever reasons. Builds don't suddenly become more fun to play or play against in mirror matches (just imagine 2 perma stealth DE trying to "duel" or 2 tanky boonbeasts) or against other op builds. 2x unfun doesn't result in fun. And since "fun" is very subjective and different for every player, having a wide variety of viable builds to cover as many preferences as possible is desireable and not just a matter of players being to stupid to pick the right builds.

 

indeed fun has many factors that play into it. and you have to make a decision how much you value what. if you choose a subpar build because you enjoy it soo much that it is more important to you than being able to compete with it, then go for it, but dont expect to compete with it then.

[Odinens.5920]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> Also scourges, the most popular roamer according to polls!

 

I'm guessing they are all just zerglings trying to get back to their groups after being focused down in the keep fight they were recently in....

[crepuscular.9047]

> @"Fish.2769" said:

> The problem isn't they can't balance 3 modes, the issue is WvW is a cross-over of PvP and PvE, so if they nerfed WvW with the PvP nerfs then WvW would collapse due to people not being able to 'zerg' effectively due to changes and they only ever really implement the PvE balances in WvW to tone down some of the damage classes can output. (Spellbreaker's Full Counter is a prime example of this).

 

cannot zerg 'effectively'?

 

it wasn't as toxic before PoF, PoF brought in loads of toxic builds result of the devs designed the elite specs with PvE game mode in mind without thoroughly testing in WvW and PvP

[MaxosStrife.9642]

Help me understand this:

* Scourge is op, top on the list of zerg groups, so many unblockables and boon to condition skills.

* Firebrand is op, top on the list of zerg groups, so many barriers and resistance and heals even after nerfs, and can be in small gank groups.

* Revenant is op, also on high priority in zerg groups, pretty much come close like a smokescale, hit hard, then heal to full with a healing that doesnt require a cast and heals for dmg taken, among other things.

* Warrior/spellbreaker is op, they have 10 secs of invulnerability also lots of resistance, good in zergs for wings of disenchantment, they just get in enemy zerg, take no dmg and pop a barrier that blocks projectiles and rips boons, not bad roamers also, not the best though.

* Holosmiths are op, they have a lot of sustain and make great roamers, jack of all trades, including stealth and spam a hard hitting unblockable elite that ppl dont see coming, among other things.

* Mirages are op, they are great roamers, have a lot more invulnerabilities than others plus stealth and blink/portals.

* Deadeyes are op, they need to be glass cannons to push dmg, die fast but can run away easier than others, makes them great roamers.

* Soulbeasts are op, they have too many boons and passive dmg reductions, can one shot ppl with longbow 4+2 and can stealth with longbow 3, great roamers

 

All i see is specs that are great for zergs while the specs that are great roamers are useless in zergs, and viceversa, a deadeye will not help a zerg at all, no heals, no AoE, not many boons that can be given better by others, no reflects or barriers, same with holos or soulbeasts or mirages, mirages do have barriers and portals that help a zerg but not very good AoE, you are not supposed to beat a class designed for roaming with a zerg class, but also you are going to be not as helpful to a group in a roamer class.

 

If they have to nerf the classes that can only do good as roamers, then take away the skills from them, but then they would have to get those 900 to 1200 AoE hard hitting skills and barriers and heals and boon shares that other classes have, if a class that should survive more than others gets their survival skills taken away or dmg taken away, then holos, deadeyes, soulbeasts and mirages would become useless without getting group helpful abilities.

 

Also notice how almost every class is op in their own way from different points of view, when every class is op, i take that as balance, the only class not seeing as op by ppl is weaver, great in zergs but pretty weak survival skills with staff, and i think thats only cause weaver is a harder class to master as they also have lots of evades, and invulnerabilities wih sword/focus/dagger.

 

Pls nerf scissors, rock is fine...... Atte. paper

[sarkysek.1085]

> @"Straegen.2938" said:

> My opinions based on thousands of hours of roaming. Again these are opinions for discussion and I am not saying these are all equal in their nastiness.

>

> Condi Mirage - Why it is broken: Way too many condition types on one build with heavy condition spike wrapped in one of the most defensively minded offenses in the game. Tons of armor, solid hp, reflect, blocks, invisibility, teleports, invulnerability, etc. How to fix: Reduce the available condi types, outright limit the number of defensive options in one build and straight up remove reflect on dodge.

>

> Power Rifle Deadeye - Why it is broken: It hits like a truck out of stealth and vanishes a second later. Condi doesn't stick to it and there aren't nearly enough reveals. The reveals that do exist are clunky or short range. How to fix: Stealth needs an exhaustion mechanic and Death's Retreat should not power up Lead Attacks.

>

> Malicious Backstab Deadeye - Why it is broken: It hits like two trucks out of stealth and vanishes a second later. How to fix: Same as Power Rifle Deadeye.

>

> Bonus! Underwater Ranger: Why it is broken: Virtually impossible to take down underwater which gives it a massive terrain advantage particularly around EBG Red Keep where packs often tie up the WP there and simply jump off into the water when challenged. How to fix: Downed while underwater needs to be removed, damage needs to be taken from falling when hitting water from high up and that pet heal needs a massive reduction.

>

>

 

Just dodge 4Head. On a more serious note, ever heard of a thing called Dragonhunter? It's a profession that counters condi mirage and rifle deadeye to a great degree (in some cases I'd say even fully). Feel free to whisper me ingame for build details or gameplay tips if you will. You'll never lose against a condi mirage ever again while roaming :)

[L A T I O N.8923]

> @"sarkysek.1085" said:

> > @"Straegen.2938" said:

> > My opinions based on thousands of hours of roaming. Again these are opinions for discussion and I am not saying these are all equal in their nastiness.

> >

> > Condi Mirage - Why it is broken: Way too many condition types on one build with heavy condition spike wrapped in one of the most defensively minded offenses in the game. Tons of armor, solid hp, reflect, blocks, invisibility, teleports, invulnerability, etc. How to fix: Reduce the available condi types, outright limit the number of defensive options in one build and straight up remove reflect on dodge.

> >

> > Power Rifle Deadeye - Why it is broken: It hits like a truck out of stealth and vanishes a second later. Condi doesn't stick to it and there aren't nearly enough reveals. The reveals that do exist are clunky or short range. How to fix: Stealth needs an exhaustion mechanic and Death's Retreat should not power up Lead Attacks.

> >

> > Malicious Backstab Deadeye - Why it is broken: It hits like two trucks out of stealth and vanishes a second later. How to fix: Same as Power Rifle Deadeye.

> >

> > Bonus! Underwater Ranger: Why it is broken: Virtually impossible to take down underwater which gives it a massive terrain advantage particularly around EBG Red Keep where packs often tie up the WP there and simply jump off into the water when challenged. How to fix: Downed while underwater needs to be removed, damage needs to be taken from falling when hitting water from high up and that pet heal needs a massive reduction.

> >

> >

>

> Just dodge 4Head. On a more serious note, ever heard of a thing called Dragonhunter? It's a profession that counters condi mirage and rifle deadeye to a great degree (in some cases I'd say even fully). Feel free to whisper me ingame for build details or gameplay tips if you will. You'll never lose against a condi mirage ever again while roaming :)

 

Despite the fact that you capable of oneshotting a deadeye most of the time. I dont think its a hardcounter more then a de hardcounters the dh

 

The problem for the de is the amount of blocks you can drop while the DH only has one reveal (spear of justice which actually requires a target...).

Secondly JI has the same problem and is full cd if the de stealths before dropping it.

 

Yes dh has 2 decent chances against a de

If the DE is aware and lures those 2 skills out. The DH is Just target practise, yes IT has An invuln and shelter/soc can a de work around by marking a target rather late

 

Stupid DE's get hardcountered by dh

Good de do hardcounter a dh (Just a little less since DJ is ununblockable)

 

Secondly: a dh mostly has to run full agressive, especially if you run meditations. Basicly this panics the mirage and in wvw they get outrotated by the constant stomps a dh van give

 

 

 

 

That's my experience

[Acyk.9671]

> @"sarkysek.1085" said:

 

> Just dodge 4Head. On a more serious note, ever heard of a thing called Dragonhunter? It's a profession that counters condi mirage and rifle deadeye to a great degree (in some cases I'd say even fully). Feel free to whisper me ingame for build details or gameplay tips if you will. You'll never lose against a condi mirage ever again while roaming :)

 

Having a counter doesn't mean a spec isn't over performing. countering one class should be a minor factor in the end result anyway. If a spec is overperforming both in pvp and roaming, it should be nerfed. If it's only in one then the spec should be scrutinized to see if it comes from mechanics or game mode and take appropriate mesures. Same thing is true for under performing spec.

Thinking balance like a music chair game isn't the solution, gotta think about the big picture.

[sarkysek.1085]

Spear of Justice doesn't require a target. Just like any projectile attack, it can be aimed manually at an already stealthed target.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"sarkysek.1085" said:

> Spear of Justice doesn't require a target. Just like any projectile attack, it can be aimed manually at an already stealthed target.

 

I can only assume they meant it’s a targeted skill needing to be aimed and land it’s target for any effect.