Balance Update Coming: 2/26/2019

[Aplethoraof.2643]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> Frankly, I think Anet does little to help themselves by not providing their views on what is and isn't 'balanced' ... or if balance is even important with them. Leaving players guessing as to the goals for game changes is probably the worst thing they could do.

 

This is a good point, and I think it is part of the issue. The player-base has no clue what Anet's vision is, aside from consistent inconsistency. Y'all really should throw us a bone, tell us (frankly) what you think and tell us what the future roadmap for profession balance holds.

 

How are we supposed to judge your work fairly, if we don't even know what your standards are?

 

Of course, we are going to think you are incompetent and go around tossing salt at you if you keep your plans "totally super secret". Don't play games with your customers and B.S. us, just tell us what is going on and what your process is.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Can't wait for: Ectoplasm removed from the game.

Protection + stability gutted on holo, if they want to play glass canon they should be glass.

Elites not refreshed by steal on thief, DE permastealth gone, Assassin's Signet smiter's booned.

Dolyak stance nerfed.

CS reverted on mes.

MC not allowed during stun.

 

A man can dream, right!

[Solori.6025]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> The best thing you can do is hoping that your favorite build isn't affected by the upcoming changes. At best A-Net doesn't know what they're doing, even bad / underperforming things are not safe from getting nerfed. Sadly these balance updates are nothing to look forward to.

 

This

[Turkeyspit.3965]

> @"Tails.9372" said:

> The best thing you can do is hoping that your favorite build isn't affected by the upcoming changes. At best A-Net doesn't know what they're doing, even bad / underperforming things are not safe from getting nerfed. Sadly these balance updates are nothing to look forward to.

 

It's why I've put on hold any ascended gear crafting for the 3 alts I have that aren't fully geared. Waiting until the hammer comes down and the dust settles.

[Jimbru.6014]

I just hope that they remember only a minority of players do PVP and WvW, whereas EVERYBODY has to PVE. In other words, stop letting the PVP whiners ruin the rest of the game with their ideas of "balance", and stop making the rest of us have to reinvent our characters in PVE patch after patch.

[TwiceDead.1963]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Tails.9372" said:

> > The best thing you can do is hoping that your favorite build isn't affected by the upcoming changes. At best A-Net doesn't know what they're doing, even bad / underperforming things are not safe from getting nerfed. Sadly these balance updates are nothing to look forward to.

>

> This

 

I'm hoping for absolute chaos every patch. At least it is..

One: Probable,

Two: A simultaneously entertaining outcome.

[Ganathar.4956]

> @"Jimbru.6014" said:

> I just hope that they remember only a minority of players do PVP and WvW, whereas EVERYBODY has to PVE. In other words, stop letting the PVP whiners ruin the rest of the game with their ideas of "balance", and stop making the rest of us have to reinvent our characters in PVE patch after patch.

 

PvE balance mainly involves raid balance, which is content also done by a minority. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if even now more people still played WvW rather than raid, even though WvW is in a sorry state. If their PvE balance was focused on open world maybe you would have a point, but that is not the case.

 

These build changes in PvE are mainly done due to balancing that is aimed towards raids anyway, especially those chrono changes. In addition, I'd argue that WvW and PvP changes should be a far bigger priority. Raids are pretty close to balanced compared to other modes.

[Zenith.7301]

> @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > @"Jimbru.6014" said:

> > I just hope that they remember only a minority of players do PVP and WvW, whereas EVERYBODY has to PVE. In other words, stop letting the PVP whiners ruin the rest of the game with their ideas of "balance", and stop making the rest of us have to reinvent our characters in PVE patch after patch.

>

> PvE balance mainly involves raid balance, which is content also done by a minority. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if even now more people still played WvW rather than raid, even though WvW is in a sorry state. If their PvE balance was focused on open world maybe you would have a point, but that is not the case.

>

> These build changes in PvE are mainly done due to balancing that is aimed towards raids anyway, especially those chrono changes. In addition, I'd argue that WvW and PvP changes should be a far bigger priority. Raids are pretty close to balanced compared to other modes.

 

Many more people do upper tier fractals and PvE changes are also geared around them.

 

PvP balance is virtually impossible since it's always driven by losing a duel to a person of X class and the biggest factor in outcome is player skill disparities which no amount of balancing can come close to while in PvE they can easily balance around set rotations to have deltas of no more than 5-10% throughput.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > @"Jimbru.6014" said:

> > > I just hope that they remember only a minority of players do PVP and WvW, whereas EVERYBODY has to PVE. In other words, stop letting the PVP whiners ruin the rest of the game with their ideas of "balance", and stop making the rest of us have to reinvent our characters in PVE patch after patch.

> >

> > PvE balance mainly involves raid balance, which is content also done by a minority. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if even now more people still played WvW rather than raid, even though WvW is in a sorry state. If their PvE balance was focused on open world maybe you would have a point, but that is not the case.

> >

> > These build changes in PvE are mainly done due to balancing that is aimed towards raids anyway, especially those chrono changes. In addition, I'd argue that WvW and PvP changes should be a far bigger priority. Raids are pretty close to balanced compared to other modes.

>

> Many more people do upper tier fractals and PvE changes are also geared around them.

>

> PvP balance is virtually impossible since it's always driven by losing a duel to a person of X class and the biggest factor in outcome is player skill disparities which no amount of balancing can come close to while in PvE they can easily balance around set rotations to have deltas of no more than 5-10% throughput.

 

The problem right now: 1v1s aren't mainly decided by player skill. It's about 70% the class you play and only 30% skill I think.

Sure if everyone only played the most op class right now, so everyone is playing the same class/build, that would be some kind of balance as well, cause that would lead to 100% skillmatchup

 

Also right now most fights are like: oneshot or be oneshotted

[Scar.1793]

Hopefully you gonna remove your changes on Rev sword 4 for PvE, you wanted to improve power dps and you made it worse and more boring to play...

[Wahlao.1069]

Well, this could be the last major patch for some time given the news of upcoming layoffs... :'(

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/69249/update-from-arenanet#latest

Hopefully there will still be some developers left...

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"incisorr.9502" said:

> It's the moment of truth

>

> will arena net nerf a sub-50% win rate profession (mirage) only due to peer pressure from low elo and bad players and biased propaganda or will arena net nerf actually broken specs that are over-played and dominate due to how overpowered they are?

>

> not gonna lie, i'm very curious myself

 

I have to ask... What do you play mostly and what are these broken, overpowered specs you're referring too if its not Mirage and Boonbeast?

 

 

[Tsan.6431]

I'm a PVE player ... so, for this format if i look at composition team for raid :

Druid + chronotank for each boss.

Dragonhunter X4 or X6

Mirage X5 or X6

Power chrono X6 X7

Daredavil X5

Revenant X6

 

These class seem to be nerf (especially Druid & chrono/mirage)

[dceptaconroy.7928]

Necros - Focus 4. Since launch Focus 4. Remarkable oversight. Let's see a decent offhand on another class have this pathetic issue since launch. Or perhaps give all offhands 50% of landing..........

[Edge.8724]

I only hope one thing....... The bug "The game client has lost the connection to the server" has to be gone!!! This is madness!

[Zenith.7301]

> @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > > @"Jimbru.6014" said:

> > > > I just hope that they remember only a minority of players do PVP and WvW, whereas EVERYBODY has to PVE. In other words, stop letting the PVP whiners ruin the rest of the game with their ideas of "balance", and stop making the rest of us have to reinvent our characters in PVE patch after patch.

> > >

> > > PvE balance mainly involves raid balance, which is content also done by a minority. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if even now more people still played WvW rather than raid, even though WvW is in a sorry state. If their PvE balance was focused on open world maybe you would have a point, but that is not the case.

> > >

> > > These build changes in PvE are mainly done due to balancing that is aimed towards raids anyway, especially those chrono changes. In addition, I'd argue that WvW and PvP changes should be a far bigger priority. Raids are pretty close to balanced compared to other modes.

> >

> > Many more people do upper tier fractals and PvE changes are also geared around them.

> >

> > PvP balance is virtually impossible since it's always driven by losing a duel to a person of X class and the biggest factor in outcome is player skill disparities which no amount of balancing can come close to while in PvE they can easily balance around set rotations to have deltas of no more than 5-10% throughput.

>

> The problem right now: 1v1s aren't mainly decided by player skill. It's about 70% the class you play and only 30% skill I think.

> Sure if everyone only played the most op class right now, so everyone is playing the same class/build, that would be some kind of balance as well, cause that would lead to 100% skillmatchup

>

> Also right now most fights are like: oneshot or be oneshotted

 

Not really. I've gotten trounced as daredevil by elementalists I should be crapping on with ease. I've been killed by necromancers as a mirage in WvW and spvp.

 

I main guardian and revenant so it's no surprise skill disparities lead to different outcomes.

 

This is not unique to MMO's. In LoL I'm supposed to crap on assassins as a bruiser like Camille or Garen but I've lost lane to Zeds and Ekkos simply because they are better players.

 

People who say classes dictate outcome are engaging in easy simplifications. There is class imbalance no doubt, but pvp cannot be balanced for because the people that play PvP play it for radically different purposes.

 

The idea is for necromancers to be nerfed in WvW because they're insane teamfighters but then you have people who only want roaming/duels and necromancer is trash while mirages are considered OP yet mesmers are unwanted trash in WvW teamfighting with their total lack of aoe and utility besides a longass cd veil or portal.

[Ario.8964]

> @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > @"incisorr.9502" said:

> > It's the moment of truth

> >

> > will arena net nerf a sub-50% win rate profession (mirage) only due to peer pressure from low elo and bad players and biased propaganda or will arena net nerf actually broken specs that are over-played and dominate due to how overpowered they are?

> >

> > not gonna lie, i'm very curious myself

>

> I have to ask... What do you play mostly and what are these broken, overpowered specs you're referring too if its not Mirage and Boonbeast?

>

>

 

He's said it a few times before: He is a condi mirage main who believes that condi mirage is the highest skill build in game. He currently believes the most powerful classes in the game are core guard and rev because they can port and do damage.

[Apokriphos.7042]

> @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > > > @"Jimbru.6014" said:

> > > > > I just hope that they remember only a minority of players do PVP and WvW, whereas EVERYBODY has to PVE. In other words, stop letting the PVP whiners ruin the rest of the game with their ideas of "balance", and stop making the rest of us have to reinvent our characters in PVE patch after patch.

> > > >

> > > > PvE balance mainly involves raid balance, which is content also done by a minority. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if even now more people still played WvW rather than raid, even though WvW is in a sorry state. If their PvE balance was focused on open world maybe you would have a point, but that is not the case.

> > > >

> > > > These build changes in PvE are mainly done due to balancing that is aimed towards raids anyway, especially those chrono changes. In addition, I'd argue that WvW and PvP changes should be a far bigger priority. Raids are pretty close to balanced compared to other modes.

> > >

> > > Many more people do upper tier fractals and PvE changes are also geared around them.

> > >

> > > PvP balance is virtually impossible since it's always driven by losing a duel to a person of X class and the biggest factor in outcome is player skill disparities which no amount of balancing can come close to while in PvE they can easily balance around set rotations to have deltas of no more than 5-10% throughput.

> >

> > The problem right now: 1v1s aren't mainly decided by player skill. It's about 70% the class you play and only 30% skill I think.

> > Sure if everyone only played the most op class right now, so everyone is playing the same class/build, that would be some kind of balance as well, cause that would lead to 100% skillmatchup

> >

> > Also right now most fights are like: oneshot or be oneshotted

>

> The idea is for necromancers to be nerfed in WvW because they're insane teamfighters but then you have people who only want roaming/duels and necromancer is trash while mirages are considered OP yet mesmers are unwanted trash in WvW teamfighting with their total lack of aoe and utility besides a longass cd veil or portal.

 

The solution is simple. Ok, GW2 doesnt want the trinity. That's fine. You can still make it work. Look to GW1 for guidance.

 

Offering a meta viable builds - not even a selection - just 1 as a minimum - for each class that fits EVERY role in each gamemode.

 

Wvw - Every class should have at bare minimum:

A meta duelist roamer build

A meta zerg build

 

Pvp:

A meta team build

A meta duelist build

 

Raids:

A meta dps build

A meta support build

 

I think this is how the balance team should approach this in gw2, as it fits the "Play How You Want" philosophy the Anet CEO has been talking about since launch.

 

If something leaves meta, give it a reason to come back. Yes, this means that squads will have more 1 of each class dynamics. And it makes sense. You cant switch classes of one character but you want us to invest time, recipes, quests and unlocks on one, that is not fun for the customer if you alternatively tell them both that they MUST play mirage, holo, or boonbeast to win consistently in Pvp, scourge or FB for wvw zerg, etc. Instead, dont force us to make a new character, and instead keep the experience fun by allowing us to switch roles instead and still remain wanted.

 

This is a good thing, both for fun from your customers, and the longevity of the game as a whole. This is what you did in GW1. Do it again for GW2 - players will respond by investing more in the game if they are more connected to their avatar because they aren't banned from a game mode they want to play.

[Zenith.7301]

> @"Apokriphos.7042" said:

> > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > @"Nimon.7840" said:

> > > > @"Zenith.7301" said:

> > > > > @"Ganathar.4956" said:

> > > > > > @"Jimbru.6014" said:

> > > > > > I just hope that they remember only a minority of players do PVP and WvW, whereas EVERYBODY has to PVE. In other words, stop letting the PVP whiners ruin the rest of the game with their ideas of "balance", and stop making the rest of us have to reinvent our characters in PVE patch after patch.

> > > > >

> > > > > PvE balance mainly involves raid balance, which is content also done by a minority. In fact I wouldn't be surprised if even now more people still played WvW rather than raid, even though WvW is in a sorry state. If their PvE balance was focused on open world maybe you would have a point, but that is not the case.

> > > > >

> > > > > These build changes in PvE are mainly done due to balancing that is aimed towards raids anyway, especially those chrono changes. In addition, I'd argue that WvW and PvP changes should be a far bigger priority. Raids are pretty close to balanced compared to other modes.

> > > >

> > > > Many more people do upper tier fractals and PvE changes are also geared around them.

> > > >

> > > > PvP balance is virtually impossible since it's always driven by losing a duel to a person of X class and the biggest factor in outcome is player skill disparities which no amount of balancing can come close to while in PvE they can easily balance around set rotations to have deltas of no more than 5-10% throughput.

> > >

> > > The problem right now: 1v1s aren't mainly decided by player skill. It's about 70% the class you play and only 30% skill I think.

> > > Sure if everyone only played the most op class right now, so everyone is playing the same class/build, that would be some kind of balance as well, cause that would lead to 100% skillmatchup

> > >

> > > Also right now most fights are like: oneshot or be oneshotted

> >

> > The idea is for necromancers to be nerfed in WvW because they're insane teamfighters but then you have people who only want roaming/duels and necromancer is trash while mirages are considered OP yet mesmers are unwanted trash in WvW teamfighting with their total lack of aoe and utility besides a longass cd veil or portal.

>

> The solution is simple. Ok, GW2 doesnt want the trinity. That's fine. You can still make it work. Look to GW1 for guidance.

>

> Offering a meta viable builds - not even a selection - just 1 as a minimum - for each class that fits EVERY role in each gamemode.

>

> Wvw - Every class should have at bare minimum:

> A meta duelist roamer build

> A meta zerg build

>

> Pvp:

> A meta team build

> A meta duelist build

>

> Raids:

> A meta dps build

> A meta support build

>

> I think this is how the balance team should approach this in gw2, as it fits the "Play How You Want" philosophy the Anet CEO has been talking about since launch.

>

> If something leaves meta, give it a reason to come back. Yes, this means that squads will have more 1 of each class dynamics. And it makes sense. You cant switch classes of one character but you want us to invest time, recipes, quests and unlocks on one, that is not fun for the customer if you alternatively tell them both that they MUST play mirage, holo, or boonbeast to win consistently in Pvp, scourge or FB for wvw zerg, etc. Instead, dont force us to make a new character, and instead keep the experience fun by allowing us to switch roles instead and still remain wanted.

>

> This is a good thing, both for fun from your customers, and the longevity of the game as a whole. This is what you did in GW1. Do it again for GW2 - players will respond by investing more in the game if they are more connected to their avatar because they aren't banned from a game mode they want to play.

 

That would be fine until you realize that nothing will approach a thief or warrior in roaming (mirage I list behind them because while they're great duelists, they do not have the same in combat mobility and disengage tools as a warrior or thief who can cover huge distances in short cd's and without much investment).

 

Thief is plain broke in WvW precisely because you have a class with multiple teleports, one being an overpowered utility that teleports twice 1200 range, stunbreaks twice, and clears a condition on return, on top of the nearly unstoppable stealth.

[sephiroth.4217]

> @"Ario.8964" said:

> > @"sephiroth.4217" said:

> > > @"incisorr.9502" said:

> > > It's the moment of truth

> > >

> > > will arena net nerf a sub-50% win rate profession (mirage) only due to peer pressure from low elo and bad players and biased propaganda or will arena net nerf actually broken specs that are over-played and dominate due to how overpowered they are?

> > >

> > > not gonna lie, i'm very curious myself

> >

> > I have to ask... What do you play mostly and what are these broken, overpowered specs you're referring too if its not Mirage and Boonbeast?

> >

> >

>

> He's said it a few times before: He is a condi mirage main who believes that condi mirage is the highest skill build in game. He currently believes the most powerful classes in the game are core guard and rev because they can port and do damage.

 

but

but but

but but but

shouldn't Condi mirage be owning those 2?

Dying to core guard I can understand, they have a high burst if you facetank the damage but Mirage has mirage cloak and distortion and so on

[Vantooth.6347]

buff my condi reaper, possibly deathly chill right now dhuumfire +quickness trait brings more damage... It's way too subpar compared to any other necro build. Doesn't need to be the best just decent enough to be played in pve pvp wvw and fractals.

[vesica tempestas.1563]

> @"Lillis.9473" said:

> > @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> > > @"DragonFury.6243" said:

> > > why every thing must happen in a single day in a single patch ???????

> >

> > Turns out that it's super expensive to generate multiple patches. Fewer is a lot more efficient.

>

> RESISTING the urge to hijack this thread into a debate on Agile and DevOps.... :#

 

lol i hear you :) true story - i once criticised the maturity of GW2 DevOps on this forum and a forum admin issued an infraction, apparently he did not know what DevOps was and thought i was criticising their developers. Probably the most ironic infraction of all time lol

[bluri.2653]

@"Irenio CalmonHuang.2048" you better remove stealth on dodge or put an ICD on it.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Is balance patch still going to happen?

[Lily.1935]

As a necromancer player there is quite a few things we've been asking for for a while which I find difficult to believe we'll get. So here's a list of things that I can think of that are currently plaguing us.

 

1. **Shroud and Healing**: This has been a hot topic for ages. Its pretty anti group play the way shroud works. I do believe there is a way to balance this out though. We just need the right solution. Players have been suggesting stuff for years, including myself and I wont go into them right now as this is a general discussion.

2. **Shroud and Utility**: Again, having the utility skills locked out while using shroud is a major limiting point that is unneeded in the necromancer's design and once again there have been plenty of suggestions that could solve this issue.

3. **Minions**: Just the whole thing. Honestly I don't expect this to be addressed until the next set of elite specs or expansion or w/e.

4. **Axe skill 1&3**: When people were complaining about the axe, it really was the whole kit. The second skill is decent now but the other two skills could use some major overhauls.

5. **Focus**: Just everything about the focus.

6. **Death Shroud**: Necromancer has some of the most dramatic game play changes when they use an elite spec or choose not to. And DS is extremely under tuned for the current game.

7. **Death magic**: Everything about death magic should be reviewed and worked on to make it cohesive. Even the minion traits.

8. **Support**: General support. The necromancer has some nice options for support, but it doesn't quite have all the tools it rightfully should have. This is also an issue at the necromancer's core since I'm very much of the opinion that Core necromancer should at least be decent at support.

9. **Fear**: It would be nice to have a bit more access to this condition.

10. **Some of the Scourge Skills**: Some of the skills could use a bit stronger utility. Some are extremely great, others not so much.

 

There are more than this obviously but those are the ones I can think of right off the bat. Honestly though, I don't expect any of these issues to be addressed at the moment considering the Scourge and the Reaper are both extremely popular right now. My hope is that they would be addressed as I'd like to expand the scope of what I can do with the class and how I can play it, but I'm not holding my breath.