Please make PoF HPs elites instead of veterans?

[Conncept.7638]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> > @Conncept.7638 said:

> > > @OriOri.8724 said:

> > > Show me where Anet promised that all HPs will always be soloable then.

> >

> > ANet never promised that and he never stated they did so, HoT just proved it's incredibly stupid to do otherwise.

> >

>

> And elites are nowhere near the same level as a champion mob. They are an order of magnitude easier to deal with. You'll note, I didn't ask for a single HP to be changed into a champion mob, but you guys are crying as if that's what I asked for.

 

What on earth are you talking about?

 

Let's go over the order of events here.

 

You claimed that he stated that ANet "promised" that all HPs should be soloable, which he didn't say.

 

I point out that he didn't say that, and include that HoT poor reception pretty much proved that having HPs require a group was a horrible design decision.

 

You hyperbolically claim that I am "crying" about your suggestion to turn these mobs into champion mobs, which not only did you not suggest, but which I never claimed you suggested, and which was not at any point any portion of the conversation in any way at all!

 

If you're going to wantonly and nonsensically attack an argument, at the very least make it one _someone in the conversation actually made_.

[Haishao.6851]

> @Lunarlife.5128 said:

> > @castlemanic.3198 said:

> > NO PLEASE DEAR GOD NO.

> >

> > Veterans are perfect right now for hero point balance and should remain this way, because to some, elite mobs are too punishing.

>

> This. Not all classes can solo elites.

 

What classes cannot solo an elite?

[Tai Kratos.3247]

I want to jump on the band wagon to say how terrible and idea this is. For most HPs in HoT, you need at least two players to bring them down. So it makes those almost impossible to solo for most people.

 

I mean, maybe you're awesome at the game. But HPs aren't endgame entertainment: they're a part of progression. PoFs HPs are significantly better than HoTs.

[Seera.5916]

I'd say there should be a mixture of Veteran, Elite, and the rare champion. With the higher percentage of the Elites and Champions on the maps that you get to later on in the story.

[IndigoSundown.5419]

There are Elites that are harder than vets, and Elites that are easier. Some are so close as to virtually be the same. As it is, some of the challenge vets do more damage than any Elite I've seen in the game. Some don't. What the OP is asking for is a mob that is in between, but while the Elite tag is in between, most of the Elite mobs aren't.

 

For me, I like the challenges as is. I often end up fighting other mobs along with the Vet, sometimes more than once. :o

 

HC design needs to appeal to the vast majority of players, not just the people who are good at the game. While I understand the desire for more challenging fights, HC's are not the proper venue for them. Solo-able bounties would be a better venue.

[CedarDog.9723]

Oooo...since some of us are complaining about the hero points being too easy... Why not add some Epic rank hero points? Especially in the branded area of the end map where you mostly have to stand in the little bubbles? ;)

 

Besides that, who really cares? Most people do them once and then never bother to do them again, so it's not like it's content that's repeated over and over.

[ImTasty.2163]

If they make them elites they need to change the mob density. Trying to fight the djinn in CO always turns into me vs djinn vs a hydra vs some sand lions vs a couple of sand sharks.

[Malediktus.9250]

I agree. Veterans are pointless. They usually die almost instantly to my dragon hunter burst, making all their mechanics useless.

[RoseofGilead.8907]

No, I'm happy with vets. The tendency for random mobs to happen by and join in on attacking you makes the vet fights difficult enough as is. :p

[Ohoni.6057]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> I know that a lot of people complained about the champion mobs in HoT HPs, and I think its great that you guys listened to them and didn't do the same thing in PoF. But please make these mobs elites? Its quite boring to going back to plain old veteran mobs. Elites are at the perfect level for a PvE mob imo. More challenging than a veteran mob without being punishing, but still easy enough that any player can come along and solo it.

 

No. Many of them are already too hard to solo. Making them elites would make them even harder. That would be a bad thing, and bad things should be avoided.

[Djinn.9245]

> @OriOri.8724 said:

> I know that a lot of people complained about the champion mobs in HoT HPs, and I think its great that you guys listened to them and didn't do the same thing in PoF. But please make these mobs elites? Its quite boring to going back to plain old veteran mobs. Elites are at the perfect level for a PvE mob imo. More challenging than a veteran mob without being punishing, but still easy enough that any player can come along and solo it.

 

/Not Signed. HP are for builds and builds should be solo, not group content. I disagree that Elites are "easy enough that any player can come along and solo it".

[Ohoni.6057]

> @joneirikb.7506 said:

> Basically to sum up the entire forum/community: We are all different and want different things.

>

> Best solution is likely a compromise, with a variety of HP challenges with different level mobs.

 

No, because completing HPs is only of value for players unlocking skillsets. There is no need for them to "please all different players," the only need with HPs is that they "provide all the HPs that players need to max out their specs." Players who want higher challenge than HPs currently offer do not need more difficult HPs, they just need more difficult content, and that can be provided, just in a way that players who do *not* want "more difficult content* won't have to do it. ie, not in a limited resource like HPs.

 

> Instead of arguing for ALL or NOTHING, what compromises could work ?

 

There is no need nor benefit to compromise on this topic.

 

> @CedarDog.9723 said:

> Oooo...since some of us are complaining about the hero points being too easy... Why not add some Epic rank hero points? Especially in the branded area of the end map where you mostly have to stand in the little bubbles? ;)

 

Why? What is the benefit in having "epic" hero points? Why not just have "epic" content that has nothing to do with hero points? What is the benefit in having hero points that only "epic" players can earn?

 

 

[Ashen.2907]

> @otto.5684 said:

> TBH, I would like champions, similar to HoT, but I understand it does not work for everybody.

 

^^^ This.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

NO NO NO NO NO

 

Actually we need to make the HoT HP veterans.

[Taygus.4571]

Also chiming in, as someone with a disability I would appreciate this not happening.

 

And before you think, I'm not skilled enough. .. i have solo'd champs with an elementalist but my disability has progress to such that, that has become much more difficult.

I also left the game for awhile and it's challenging to get back into it, so I can only imagine for newcomers.

 

I get some people want extra challenge. ..but they also want this extra challenge to unfairly pay off.. and that's where balancing the game for the large range of playerbase comes in.

 

If you want extra challenge just play PvP.

[Slowpokeking.8720]

> @joneirikb.7506 said:

> Basically to sum up the entire forum/community: We are all different and want different things.

>

> Best solution is likely a compromise, with a variety of HP challenges with different level mobs. Few enough champions that you can organize a train for them if needed, and enough champions/elites around to satisfy the ones that want to try something more challenging. It also adds the advantage that people going in blind get to find out the hard way what "this HP challenge" will be like, surprises can be fun.

>

> But honestly ALL HP-challenges into Veterans would bore me (and likely some others) to tears. While obviously all Champions/Elites would make them very difficult for other players. Instead of arguing for ALL or NOTHING, what compromises could work ?

 

There are tons of content to let you fight champions. HP are simply for elite spec, there is no point to make them super hard

[Khisanth.2948]

Eh ... was doing a HP then two sand lions decide to join in then a hydra. Bounty can also spawn nearby. Pretty ambivalent about it though. Already gone through PoF once and I have no desire to go through it again unlike core and HoT. Something just seems to be off about PoF.

[Zaraki.5784]

NO!

Veteran rank is perfect now.

[Ohoni.6057]

> @Khisanth.2948 said:

> Eh ... was doing a HP then two sand lions decide to join in then a hydra. Bounty can also spawn nearby. Pretty ambivalent about it though. Already gone through PoF once and I have no desire to go through it again unlike core and HoT. Something just seems to be off about PoF.

 

That one in Crystal Oasis is pretty awful, as is the one near the entrance of Riverlands. The "official" HP boss is not that terrible, but they are both right in the middle of a hydra patrol path, and dealing with both at once is pretty pointless.

[Colly.4073]

Just give the HP npc a drop down menu so you can select your desired difficulty and everyone’s happy.

[Faaris.8013]

PoF has HP challenges that can be soloed and it has no huge meta events like HoT maps, yes. And this is good because people who like champion HP challenges and meta events can always play HoT maps and people who don't like these can play on PoF maps. The expansion added versatility to the game. Now people who like HoT ask for stuff to be changed in PoF to make it more like HoT. On the other hand, I don't see anyone who prefers PoF asking for changes to HoT now.

 

When I play my other characters and need Hero Points, I go to the desert with them, not into the jungle. I'm not asking for a change to HoT hero challenges, I just do those I prefer, and so can you. There are way more HPs in the game than you can spend, my thief has both elites and has a surplus of 394 HPs. If you like champs more, then go kill them in the jungle. The same I'm telling people who like meta events: go to the jungle to do them. I know I will, I like Octovine and Dragon's Stand, sometimes I do Chak Gerent, no idea what exactly the meta is in Verdant Brink but I sometimes kill bosses at night there.

[Irreverent.3594]

Some veterans are like champions and some champions are like veterans... what's up with that anyway. Jormag fight for example.

[joneirikb.7506]

> @Ohoni.6057 said:

> > @joneirikb.7506 said:

> > Basically to sum up the entire forum/community: We are all different and want different things.

> >

> > Best solution is likely a compromise, with a variety of HP challenges with different level mobs.

>

> No, because completing HPs is only of value for players unlocking skillsets. There is no need for them to "please all different players," the only need with HPs is that they "provide all the HPs that players need to max out their specs." Players who want higher challenge than HPs currently offer do not need more difficult HPs, they just need more difficult content, and that can be provided, just in a way that players who do *not* want "more difficult content* won't have to do it. ie, not in a limited resource like HPs.

>

 

Even if I agreed with that, there are plenty enough of Hero Challenges in the game that this isn't an issue. You could have almost half the hero points in the game spawn a champion, and it would still be possible to unlock both Elite Spez. And considering not every Hero Challenge is a fight anyways, it would have even less impact.

 

All I am saying is that there is space for both camps, without locking one or the other out.

 

* Hero challenge — 904 points

* Central Tyria — 200 points

* Heart of Maguuma (Heart of Thorns) — 400 points

* Crystal Desert and Vabbi (Path of Fire) — 290 points

* Krait Obelisk Shard — 1 point

* World versus World — 13 points

 

Also don't agree that all build upgrades should be a cake-walk either, but that is subjective so no point arguing about it.

 

 

> > Instead of arguing for ALL or NOTHING, what compromises could work ?

>

> There is no need nor benefit to compromise on this topic.

 

Wow, talk about negotiations breakdown.

 

---

 

> @Slowpokeking.8720 said:

> > @joneirikb.7506 said:

> > Basically to sum up the entire forum/community: We are all different and want different things.

> >

> > Best solution is likely a compromise, with a variety of HP challenges with different level mobs. Few enough champions that you can organize a train for them if needed, and enough champions/elites around to satisfy the ones that want to try something more challenging. It also adds the advantage that people going in blind get to find out the hard way what "this HP challenge" will be like, surprises can be fun.

> >

> > But honestly ALL HP-challenges into Veterans would bore me (and likely some others) to tears. While obviously all Champions/Elites would make them very difficult for other players. Instead of arguing for ALL or NOTHING, what compromises could work ?

>

> There are tons of content to let you fight champions. HP are simply for elite spec, there is no point to make them super hard

 

Sure, but by the same argument: there are tons of hero points that doesn't let you fight champions. And Elite Spez is Character Progress, so shouldn't you have to work a little bit for it ? Personally I love the hero point system in the game, because it is an interactive way of progressing, rather than just filling ull XP bars. And I think that some of the Hero Challenges (not all) have stronger enemies is another way to make hero challenges different and interesting.

 

If we continue down this path, someone is going to demand that every Hero Challenge should be a "channel", so they doesn't have to fight or do anything at all to get their Elite Spez. Considering the amount of Hero Challenges in the game (almost twise as many as needed) what is the point in making all of them the same?

 

---

 

PS Looking at the numbers of Hero Challenges in POF, I'd say make 4 (40 hp) of them into elites/champions, that way you still have 250 you can get by other means + veterans. Enough for Elite Spez, but you might have to look a bit more.

[MMAI.5892]

@joneirikb.7506

 

HPs are also needed for map completion which is one reason, for me, that I don't want to see them made harder. If there is a market for solo-able, single encounter content, that current events (Champion spawns) and bounties don't fill, then I think a better route would be to deepen the bounty system with creatures that are soloable for high end players. This allows people who really don't care about upping their challenge game to still get map completion and elite specs while providing a venue for those who want more challenging encounters in open world content. Plus I think it could give the bounty system more depth and replayability.

[PunkMaster.4235]

To me, it depends on the class as well. Not all classes and specs can take down the champs easily.

On my necro, I soloed all the the HPs in HoT, super easy face roll. When i went back on some of my other classes, i would just get merc'd...

Elites would be cool, but i dont see a reason for it for the HPs. There are other champs and elites in the world to go solo if that's what you want to do.