Disengagement wish for necro

[Stand The Wall.6987]

I like the idea of dark path being ground targeted but I think the range would have to be decreased to 600 for balance purposes.

[kodesh.2851]

 

> But you also loose a lot for taking runes of speed.

 

I like the vitality and find I don't miss the extra damage stats. Turns reaper into an amazing +1, roamer, swooper.

 

> And it won't give enough mobility to outplay other classes, only if you are smarter than the opponent player. But then you can also play another rune.

>

> Also getting boon removed or corrupted makes you loose your whole mobility.

 

I also take walk and warhorn, I've never had a problem with my swift getting stripped and not being able to reapply. I also take curses instead of spite, so I tend to out-corrupt other necros on my power build with weakening shroud, path of corruption etc. The mobility is only one part of being able to kite and outplay. I prefer spectral grasp over wurm to control fight positioning. It's great pulling 3 ppl off a capture point into nightfall -> reaper shroud (6 boons corrupted, 2 condi xfered, blind/weakness applied before you do any other attacks).

 

> Even with runes of speed you won't be able to have better matchups against classes with a lot of mobility (looking at ranger and thief here).

>

> I'm currently playing a pretty tanky build on reaper with fireworks rune. Yes the boons can be removed as well, but you won't loose the movespeed even while not having swiftness. And it lets me outplay people as well.

 

Ahh, I'm talking conquest here. No fireworks rune available in pvp. There's so many other options for wvw I have no idea what I'd pick there on reaper.

 

> Also moving faster than your supports in groupplax can be very annoying for the supports, as they will not hit you with their abilities pretty often.

>

 

again, in conquest not an issue, it's actually really nice being able to beat feet TO your support if they are stuck off point fighting a rev or something and can't get to you.

 

 

 

[InsaneQR.7412]

Why not reverse flesh worm?

So you teleport to a location and break stun.

On your old location you leave a flesh worm which can be sacrificed to teleport back.

So you can use it for mobility or tactical disengage.

[Aplethoraof.2643]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> I think this goes to a deeper question: If necro does have the tools on all specs to kick people's butts, then why should it get a good disengage toolset as well? I mean, let's be honest here, deficiencies exist on the classes, and for good reason. I'm thinking that if the kick butt toolset is that good, then other aspects of Necro should provide fair matchups for opponents; mobility and sustain are clearly two areas where that could happen. In otherwords, if your tools excel at committing you in a fight with good chance of success, other things need not be that good to balance this out.

>

> Personally, I think I would prefer necro to have strong offensive capability and I believe that should be it's focus. I can only think that adding 'fringe' abilities only makes the case weaker for maintaining the class identity.

 

I think you missed the point of the person who posted above this post.

 

Other professions have:

1) The ability to disengage/mitigate damage with skills instead of face-tanking.

2) The ability to kick butt in equal measure to the necromancer.

 

Your statement doesn't really hold up, because the standard IS to have both the tools to disengage and kick butt. It isn't a this-or-that relationship in GW2. Necromancer, comparatively, however, doesn't really have the full tool-kit other professions do.

 

In this instance, to equalize things out, there are two options:

Nerf everyone's ability to disengage and kick butt in equal measure.

OR

Buff necromancer's ability to disengage and kick butt in equal measure.

 

One requires a heap ton of work and will cause massive amounts of salt. The other (aka buffing) doesn't. That is what this thread asks for.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Aplethoraof.2643" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > I think this goes to a deeper question: If necro does have the tools on all specs to kick people's butts, then why should it get a good disengage toolset as well? I mean, let's be honest here, deficiencies exist on the classes, and for good reason. I'm thinking that if the kick butt toolset is that good, then other aspects of Necro should provide fair matchups for opponents; mobility and sustain are clearly two areas where that could happen. In otherwords, if your tools excel at committing you in a fight with good chance of success, other things need not be that good to balance this out.

> >

> > Personally, I think I would prefer necro to have strong offensive capability and I believe that should be it's focus. I can only think that adding 'fringe' abilities only makes the case weaker for maintaining the class identity.

>

> I think you missed the point of the person who posted above this post.

>

> Other professions have:

> 1) The ability to disengage/mitigate damage with skills instead of face-tanking.

> 2) The ability to kick butt in equal measure to the necromancer.

 

What other professions have is irrelevant though. There is no 'standard' and there isn't any indication of some 'equalization' across the classes. The tools you get as a class are based on the class theme, not some idea that you have everything you need to handle every situation comparable to other classes.

[Aplethoraof.2643]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > @"Aplethoraof.2643" said:

> > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > I think this goes to a deeper question: If necro does have the tools on all specs to kick people's butts, then why should it get a good disengage toolset as well? I mean, let's be honest here, deficiencies exist on the classes, and for good reason. I'm thinking that if the kick butt toolset is that good, then other aspects of Necro should provide fair matchups for opponents; mobility and sustain are clearly two areas where that could happen. In otherwords, if your tools excel at committing you in a fight with good chance of success, other things need not be that good to balance this out.

> > >

> > > Personally, I think I would prefer necro to have strong offensive capability and I believe that should be it's focus. I can only think that adding 'fringe' abilities only makes the case weaker for maintaining the class identity.

> >

> > I think you missed the point of the person who posted above this post.

> >

> > Other professions have:

> > 1) The ability to disengage/mitigate damage with skills instead of face-tanking.

> > 2) The ability to kick butt in equal measure to the necromancer.

>

> What other professions have is irrelevant though. There is no 'standard' and there isn't any indication of some 'equalization' across the classes. The tools you get as a class are based on the class theme, not some idea that you have everything you need to handle every situation comparable to other classes.

 

In that case, then there doesn't need to be any 'give and take'. They just need to come up with a theme that has the same kind of power + mobility, blocks, deflects, or another damage mitigation or disengage tool. That is far easier. You can justify pretty much anything if you decide to balance around flavour.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Aplethoraof.2643" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > @"Aplethoraof.2643" said:

> > > > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > > > I think this goes to a deeper question: If necro does have the tools on all specs to kick people's butts, then why should it get a good disengage toolset as well? I mean, let's be honest here, deficiencies exist on the classes, and for good reason. I'm thinking that if the kick butt toolset is that good, then other aspects of Necro should provide fair matchups for opponents; mobility and sustain are clearly two areas where that could happen. In otherwords, if your tools excel at committing you in a fight with good chance of success, other things need not be that good to balance this out.

> > > >

> > > > Personally, I think I would prefer necro to have strong offensive capability and I believe that should be it's focus. I can only think that adding 'fringe' abilities only makes the case weaker for maintaining the class identity.

> > >

> > > I think you missed the point of the person who posted above this post.

> > >

> > > Other professions have:

> > > 1) The ability to disengage/mitigate damage with skills instead of face-tanking.

> > > 2) The ability to kick butt in equal measure to the necromancer.

> >

> > What other professions have is irrelevant though. There is no 'standard' and there isn't any indication of some 'equalization' across the classes. The tools you get as a class are based on the class theme, not some idea that you have everything you need to handle every situation comparable to other classes.

>

> In that case, then there doesn't need to be any 'give and take'. They just need to come up with a theme that has the same kind of power + mobility, blocks, deflects, or another damage mitigation or disengage tool. That is far easier. You can justify pretty much anything if you decide to balance around flavour.

 

That is correct. The question is simply if Anet **wants** Necro to conform to a specific theme that gives that kind of profile. I believe that's where Especs come in. Be assured though ... if a current profile isn't "the same kind of power + mobility, blocks, deflects, or another damage mitigation or disengage tool", then that's probably intended. It is entirely possible that Anet has an idea how they want Necro to play ... and if 'disengaging' is missing from that, I wouldn't assume they missed it. Developers do intentionally make these kinds of deficiencies in classes.

 

It's pretty easy to see what flavours the Especs take, so the idea necro gets loaded up with 'disengagement' tools seems odd, considering one Espec is heavily offensive and the other is support/conditions. 'Disengaging' doesn't seem to fit in with either of them.

[Anchoku.8142]

This discussion still lives?!

 

Thinking of the next elite spec, if there is one, Necro could have a group mobility support trait line and utility skills if Necro gives up on AoE and dps.

 

Core without power cleave from Reaper or barriers and heavy corruption from Scourge could be possible, if shroud became a "ghost" that could use mobility skills on itself and 1 or 2 allies and was utterly useless for anything else in shroud and had only core dps out of shroud.

 

A mobility support elite is possible. This is a huge gap in Necro capability making it a legitimate candidate for the next elite but there will be a trade; i. e., a trim to dps and/or AoE.

[Nimon.7840]

> @"Anchoku.8142" said:

> This discussion still lives?!

>

> Thinking of the next elite spec, if there is one, Necro could have a group mobility support trait line and utility skills if Necro gives up on AoE and dps.

>

> Core without power cleave from Reaper or barriers and heavy corruption from Scourge could be possible, if shroud became a "ghost" that could use mobility skills on itself and 1 or 2 allies and was utterly useless for anything else in shroud and had only core dps out of shroud.

>

> A mobility support elite is possible. This is a huge gap in Necro capability making it a legitimate candidate for the next elite but there will be a trade; i. e., a trim to dps and/or AoE.

 

Tbh.

I just want a spec for necro, that's good for duelling. So it needs mobility, dmg immunities (blocks/evades) and high dmg single target attacks.

[Psaro.6178]

Necro does amazing AoE damage. But our disengage potential sucks.

[Aetatis.5418]

> @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> Why not reverse flesh worm?

> So you teleport to a location and break stun.

> On your old location you leave a flesh worm which can be sacrificed to teleport back.

> So you can use it for mobility or tactical disengage.

 

probably the best suggestion so far.

however, it completely overlaps with thieves shadowstep. very unlikely to happen tbh

+1 anyway :3

[InsaneQR.7412]

> @"Aetatis.5418" said:

> > @"InsaneQR.7412" said:

> > Why not reverse flesh worm?

> > So you teleport to a location and break stun.

> > On your old location you leave a flesh worm which can be sacrificed to teleport back.

> > So you can use it for mobility or tactical disengage.

>

> probably the best suggestion so far.

> however, it completely overlaps with thieves shadowstep. very unlikely to happen tbh

> +1 anyway :3

 

Well yeah but shadowstep has a time limit and flesh worm has a life limit/range limit.

So it's more versatile but also more predictable because you can see a flesh worm and with shadowstep you can't see the start point.