Mesmer Nerfs

[Quadox.7834]

> @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > > we also forget Lost Time , which has 3s slow everytime you Disable (not even interrupt) and deals 1.5/2k without ICD.

> > > An enanched Lighting Rod but way stronger

> >

> > Lightning Rod does more damage even when it crits, does not have to crit to do damage, **and** puts one of the most op conditions in the game on your opponent. In what world is this bad?

> >

> > Anet, can we arrange a trade?

>

> since Chrono has more access to CCs than ele (WAAAAAY MORE)

>

> also Weakness is less dangerous than Slow by far Imo

 

Daze mantra should not exist in its current form, aside from that ele doesn't have less cc (ele has multiple sources of lightning field/shocking aura).

Weakness is extremely strong. Not only does it reduce endurance by 50% (this alone would be very good), but it also completely invalidates any power-based damage (you do the math). Fact remains that Lightning Rod is better and I would gladly trade for it if I could.

[Hylo.1968]

> @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > > > we also forget Lost Time , which has 3s slow everytime you Disable (not even interrupt) and deals 1.5/2k without ICD.

> > > > An enanched Lighting Rod but way stronger

> > >

> > > Lightning Rod does more damage even when it crits, does not have to crit to do damage, **and** puts one of the most op conditions in the game on your opponent. In what world is this bad?

> > >

> > > Anet, can we arrange a trade?

> >

> > since Chrono has more access to CCs than ele (WAAAAAY MORE)

> >

> > also Weakness is less dangerous than Slow by far Imo

>

> Daze mantra should not exist in its current form, aside from that ele doesn't have less cc (ele has multiple sources of lightning field/shocking aura).

> Weakness is extremely strong. Not only does it reduce endurance by 50% (this alone would be very good), but it also completely invalidates any power-based damage (you do the math). Fact remains that Lightning Rod is better and I would gladly trade for it if I could.

 

Ele has less CCs due Continuum Split.

[Quadox.7834]

> @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > > > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > > > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > > > > we also forget Lost Time , which has 3s slow everytime you Disable (not even interrupt) and deals 1.5/2k without ICD.

> > > > > An enanched Lighting Rod but way stronger

> > > >

> > > > Lightning Rod does more damage even when it crits, does not have to crit to do damage, **and** puts one of the most op conditions in the game on your opponent. In what world is this bad?

> > > >

> > > > Anet, can we arrange a trade?

> > >

> > > since Chrono has more access to CCs than ele (WAAAAAY MORE)

> > >

> > > also Weakness is less dangerous than Slow by far Imo

> >

> > Daze mantra should not exist in its current form, aside from that ele doesn't have less cc (ele has multiple sources of lightning field/shocking aura).

> > Weakness is extremely strong. Not only does it reduce endurance by 50% (this alone would be very good), but it also completely invalidates any power-based damage (you do the math). Fact remains that Lightning Rod is better and I would gladly trade for it if I could.

>

> Ele has less CCs due Continuum Split.

 

Ele doesn't take its CCs (for example lightning hammer), while Chrono does (for example gravity well).

[Hylo.1968]

> @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > > > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > > > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > > > > we also forget Lost Time , which has 3s slow everytime you Disable (not even interrupt) and deals 1.5/2k without ICD.

> > > > > An enanched Lighting Rod but way stronger

> > > >

> > > > Lightning Rod does more damage even when it crits, does not have to crit to do damage, **and** puts one of the most op conditions in the game on your opponent. In what world is this bad?

> > > >

> > > > Anet, can we arrange a trade?

> > >

> > > since Chrono has more access to CCs than ele (WAAAAAY MORE)

> > >

> > > also Weakness is less dangerous than Slow by far Imo

> >

> > Daze mantra should not exist in its current form, aside from that ele doesn't have less cc (ele has multiple sources of lightning field/shocking aura).

> > Weakness is extremely strong. Not only does it reduce endurance by 50% (this alone would be very good), but it also completely invalidates any power-based damage (you do the math). Fact remains that Lightning Rod is better and I would gladly trade for it if I could.

>

> Ele has less CCs due Continuum Split.

 

Edit: you have mentioned the Lightining Field that only has Staff Ele

[Quadox.7834]

> @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > > > > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > > > > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > > > > > we also forget Lost Time , which has 3s slow everytime you Disable (not even interrupt) and deals 1.5/2k without ICD.

> > > > > > An enanched Lighting Rod but way stronger

> > > > >

> > > > > Lightning Rod does more damage even when it crits, does not have to crit to do damage, **and** puts one of the most op conditions in the game on your opponent. In what world is this bad?

> > > > >

> > > > > Anet, can we arrange a trade?

> > > >

> > > > since Chrono has more access to CCs than ele (WAAAAAY MORE)

> > > >

> > > > also Weakness is less dangerous than Slow by far Imo

> > >

> > > Daze mantra should not exist in its current form, aside from that ele doesn't have less cc (ele has multiple sources of lightning field/shocking aura).

> > > Weakness is extremely strong. Not only does it reduce endurance by 50% (this alone would be very good), but it also completely invalidates any power-based damage (you do the math). Fact remains that Lightning Rod is better and I would gladly trade for it if I could.

> >

> > Ele has less CCs due Continuum Split.

>

> Edit: you have mentioned the Lightining Field that only has Staff Ele

 

Staff ele, lightning hammer, tempest air overload, (+ fall damage trait). Tornado also lightning field and does quite a bit of cc on its own.

[Fortus.6175]

> @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > @"Hylo.1968" said:

> > we also forget Lost Time , which has 3s slow everytime you Disable (not even interrupt) and deals 1.5/2k without ICD.

> > An enanched Lighting Rod but way stronger

>

> Lightning Rod does more damage even when it crits, does not have to crit to do damage, **and** puts one of the most op conditions in the game on your opponent. In what world is this bad?

>

> Anet, can we arrange a trade?

 

I mean if we are going to go down that route:

 

I will like to exchange this: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Ashes

 

for this (except that on shatter I want it to apply blind on each individual burn application without or without ICD, and AoE burns should apply to all targets): https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Blinding_Dissipation

 

 

Despite Blinding Ashes being a freaking Grandmaster, the blind applies only to one target when you use an AoE skill, although I think the ICD is fine, or maybe should be 6 secs. Meanwhile mesmers get a non-grandmaster trait that does the same, except they have more ways to apply said blind, and it is AoE, oh and no ICD.

 

Eles dont have access to many ways to disable foes, whereas mesmers are built around ~~hexes~~ constant dazes/stuns/interrupts. Picking Air trait line denies you from using the ~~mandatory~~ water/arcane trait lines, and the only trait that provided defense on it, Tempest defense, was recentlty nerfed from breaking stuns and giving a shortlived electric aura, to not breaking stuns and giving increased stun duration (we barely even have any available...) and damage on stunned targets (most stuns are shortlived, and we dont have almost any stuns, and we have such long animations and skill travel time, that by the time we see or cast a stun, and then we cast a damage skill and said skill land, the stun wore off).

 

I mean, i know you are jesting, but mesmers have always had plenty of tools for many things, eles have had it rough for years, without a single viable damage build since D/D cele in nearly 4 years now.

[rev in love.8439]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> > And you post this here because?

> >

> > I get it, we are all happy Mirage got nerfed but this Topic should be posted in the Mesmer forum.

>

> I post this because it's the latest batch of nerfs to what has been the most complained about class for the eight months since Disenchanter Chrono was nerfed and deserves to be discussed.

 

You are right, the mirage can still evade while receiving hard cc, we must make it disappear, or include it in EM or give it to all professions ;)

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

 

> • Well of Recall: Reduced the recharge time of this skill from 30 seconds to 25 seconds.

> • Signet of the Ether: This skill's recharge time now begins at the same time as phantasm skills are recharged.

> • Cry of Pain: The number of confusion stacks that this trait allows Cry of Frustration to apply has been decreased from 2 to 1 in all game modes.

> • Ineptitude: The confusion duration of this trait has been reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW.

 

Good.

 

> • Mirage Cloak: All applications of this skill's effect have had their duration reduced to match the duration of a normal dodge roll. This change does not affect the timing window for ambush skills.

> • Imaginary Axes: Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1.

 

Tentatively excellent. Let's see how that goes. They can still evade while CCed, yes, but the window for evading damage is theoretically significantly smaller.

 

> • Speed of Sand: Superspeed's duration has been reduced to match Mirage Cloak's duration.

> • Imaginary Axes: This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer.

> • Ambush Assault: This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer.

> • Split Surge: This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer.

 

Mmmm. This is either okay or horrible. So they can't kite now? Gonna need to see how this plays.

 

> • Danger Time: The bonus critical-hit chance that this trait grants against slowed enemies has been reduced from 30% to 15%.

 

Bad move, no need to hit critichronos at this time.

 

All in all theoretically 4/5 balance iteration, pending how it works on the field. The stacking of conditions has gone down, and the invulnerability has also gone down. So there's more time to pressure them and they have less time to evade. As for the targeting changes, that might be a make or break deal.

 

[apharma.3741]

Ah, nerfing confusion more despite it not being the problem.

 

Oh and lets just nerf their defence again because "We want mirages to excel in longer combat engagements, but their burst damage was just too high."

 

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62731/game-update-notes-december-11-2018

 

The only really good change was the imaginary axes change. Everything else was largely bad and won't address the parts that were the problem.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

 

> The only really good change was the imaginary axes change. Everything else was largely bad and won't address the parts that were the problem.

 

Can you elaborate?

[apharma.3741]

> @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said:

> > @"apharma.3741" said:

>

> > The only really good change was the imaginary axes change. Everything else was largely bad and won't address the parts that were the problem.

>

> Can you elaborate?

 

OK so I'll exclude the PvE changes or rather the changes that only really affect PvE.

 

• Signet of Humility: Reduced the recharge time of this skill from 180 seconds to 120 seconds in PvE only. -This change should be in all game modes.

 

• Mirage Cloak: All applications of this skill's effect have had their duration reduced to match the duration of a normal dodge roll. This change does not affect the timing window for ambush skills.

• Speed of Sand: Superspeed's duration has been reduced to match Mirage Cloak's duration. -So now mirage travels a shorter distance than a dodge will take you BECAUSE WE ARE NOT ROBOTS.

 

• Imaginary Axes: Reduced the amount of torment stacks applied in PvP and WvW from 3 to 1. This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer. -N/A

 

• Ambush Assault: This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer. -Yeah....spear needed this, really.

 

• Split Surge: This skill can no longer be used on targets behind the mesmer. -This couldn't be done anyway, you needed to be facing the enemy but could turn like druid auto.

 

• Signet of Inspiration: Lowered the extended durations of boons that this skill grants from 5 seconds to 3 seconds. Lowered the recharge time from 30 seconds to 20 seconds. -So now we make bunker chrono worse to fight as they have lower cool down on the invuln and the boon duration is barely affected.

 

• Axes of Symmetry: Reduced this skill's damage in WvW to match the PvP version of this skill. The number of confusion stacks that this applies is now 3 in all game modes. -This skill is easy enough to deal with and the confusion is easy to play around, kite for 3s if hit but is easy to dodge. The cool down is too low, seriously compare #3 skills across classes.

 

• Illusionary Ambush: Increased the recharge time of this skill from 20 seconds to 35 seconds in PvP and WvW only. -Increasing the cool down by 75%? Bit excessive don't you think? Other excessive defensive options not nerfed on many classes. They want mirage to excel in longer fights yet keep nerfing it's defence? Doesn't this seem a bit dumb?

 

• Mimic: Reduced the recharge time of this skill from 40 seconds to 30 seconds. -This skill will always either be useless or busted because you can double up on a utility skill.

 

• Cry of Pain: The number of confusion stacks that this trait allows Cry of Frustration to apply has been decreased from 2 to 1 in all game modes. -Confusion isn't much of an issue, you can wait it out if hit as it's 3s and will do about 180-200 damage per stack if you NEED to use a skill, can also kite to prevent follow up damage. LOTS OF COUNTERPLAY.

 

• Ineptitude: The confusion duration of this trait has been reduced from 3 seconds to 2 seconds in PvP and WvW. -See above.

 

• Danger Time: The bonus critical-hit chance that this trait grants against slowed enemies has been reduced from 30% to 15%. -The crit chance change is OK but it wasn't the part that was really BS, the issue was that lost time would do 2.5k+ for just landing CC and chrono has buckets of CC. The bonus crit ensured it always crit after initial Lost Time hit but the damage from lost time was kinda silly. Lost time should be like power block and not crit while power block should crit.

 

To sum it up they're nerfing confusion even though it lasts only a few seconds and you can still kite to avoid follow up damage and it's damage is largely much lower than other conditions and power damage. It's a condition with far more counterplay than torment. In contrast torment lasts 3-4 times longer, does more damage and will prevent you kiting, sure you can still use skills but that won't help when you're taking 700-1.5k condition ticks for dodging.

 

The combination of torment and confusion is really oppressive to fight and nothing is being done about it, axe will still offload tons of torment which makes it really horrible to fight.

 

Additionally nothing is being done about the hilariously overpowered scepter, the cool downs on 1, 2 and 3 skills across all classes are generally too low compared to core but not being touched. Defence is being nerfed despite power mesmer not being strong in the meta and using the same skills most of the time.

 

Essentially they're not targeting specific condition mesmer aspects to tone down and toning down the aspects that already are easier to play around or wait out if you mess up on.

 

Edit: Essentially barely any of this actually changes or reduces the current meta condi mirage in solo queue. Also it's funny how so many of these changes are game wide but some other classes like soulbeast are seeing only PvP changes.

[Odik.4587]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

You forgot they didnt add ICD or nerf to hell evasive mirror for mirage. Since its not an issue on chrono/core (also since all this nerf about to happen , core gutted even more, good news kek)

[Shadow Order.7258]

Don bully me class. Most skill required here. WAAHH

[Abelisk.4527]

Technically, IH got affected. Clones now have 1 second of Mirage Cloak as opposed to 1 1/2 seconds.

 

This nerf may seem insignificant at first but that remaining 1/2 seconds was a blanket to skill-casting and many other important functions for Mirage. Now that it's back to 1 second Mirages will be a lot more vulnerable especially for longer casting skills.

[Odik.4587]

> @"Abelisk.4527" said:

Since when clones had 1.25s evade ?

And it seems mirage being balanced only around IH without consideration not taking it . Without IH none of ambushes were OP enough to nerf any

[Curunen.8729]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> Since when clones had 1.25s evade ?

> And it seems mirage being balanced only around IH without consideration not taking it . Without IH none of ambushes were OP enough to nerf any

 

To be honest there is no consideration not taking IH because Anet seem to want to force everyone to play IH. xD

 

They should just do this in the trait tree (IH looks better in the middle for symmetry xD):


Would save them a lot of balancing hassle and us a lot of false build choices.

[Odik.4587]

> @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > Since when clones had 1.25s evade ?

> > And it seems mirage being balanced only around IH without consideration not taking it . Without IH none of ambushes were OP enough to nerf any

>

> To be honest there is no consideration not taking IH because Anet seem to want to force everyone to play IH. xD

>

> They should just do this in the trait tree (IH looks better in the middle for symmetry xD):

> 

> Would save them a lot of balancing hassle and us a lot of false build choices.

 

Have you tried to play without IH ? Its impossible

We also have no alternatives . They should just make IH baselane since they balance mirage ONLY around it (idk what their reasoning to give IA 35s cd while bulls*it stance on ranger is 40 ,can we arrange a transfer?)

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > > Since when clones had 1.25s evade ?

> > > And it seems mirage being balanced only around IH without consideration not taking it . Without IH none of ambushes were OP enough to nerf any

> >

> > To be honest there is no consideration not taking IH because Anet seem to want to force everyone to play IH. xD

> >

> > They should just do this in the trait tree (IH looks better in the middle for symmetry xD):

> > 

> > Would save them a lot of balancing hassle and us a lot of false build choices.

>

> Have you tried to play without IH ? Its impossible

> We also have no alternatives . They should just make IH baselane since they balance mirage ONLY around it (idk what their reasoning to give IA 35s cd while bulls*it stance on ranger is 40 ,can we arrange a transfer?)

 

A lot of mesmers made that call to ANet, it would be way easier to balance ambushes with IH made baseline, otherwise they're either pathetically bad or good/op.

ANet prefers to listen to qq, so someone should make a thread "IH op make it baseline to nerf it!"

[Odik.4587]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > > > Since when clones had 1.25s evade ?

> > > > And it seems mirage being balanced only around IH without consideration not taking it . Without IH none of ambushes were OP enough to nerf any

> > >

> > > To be honest there is no consideration not taking IH because Anet seem to want to force everyone to play IH. xD

> > >

> > > They should just do this in the trait tree (IH looks better in the middle for symmetry xD):

> > > 

> > > Would save them a lot of balancing hassle and us a lot of false build choices.

> >

> > Have you tried to play without IH ? Its impossible

> > We also have no alternatives . They should just make IH baselane since they balance mirage ONLY around it (idk what their reasoning to give IA 35s cd while bulls*it stance on ranger is 40 ,can we arrange a transfer?)

>

> A lot of mesmers made that call to ANet, it would be way easier to balance ambushes with IH made baseline, otherwise they're either pathetically bad or good/op.

> ANet prefers to listen to qq, so someone should make a thread "IH op make it baseline to nerf it!"

Well , i'm lookign forward to follow Solori to main soulbeast now xD . Why not enjoy 2000 range lb autos on wvw and crit for 19k ? O wait you havent seen that video yet?

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > > > > Since when clones had 1.25s evade ?

> > > > > And it seems mirage being balanced only around IH without consideration not taking it . Without IH none of ambushes were OP enough to nerf any

> > > >

> > > > To be honest there is no consideration not taking IH because Anet seem to want to force everyone to play IH. xD

> > > >

> > > > They should just do this in the trait tree (IH looks better in the middle for symmetry xD):

> > > > 

> > > > Would save them a lot of balancing hassle and us a lot of false build choices.

> > >

> > > Have you tried to play without IH ? Its impossible

> > > We also have no alternatives . They should just make IH baselane since they balance mirage ONLY around it (idk what their reasoning to give IA 35s cd while bulls*it stance on ranger is 40 ,can we arrange a transfer?)

> >

> > A lot of mesmers made that call to ANet, it would be way easier to balance ambushes with IH made baseline, otherwise they're either pathetically bad or good/op.

> > ANet prefers to listen to qq, so someone should make a thread "IH op make it baseline to nerf it!"

> Well , i'm lookign forward to follow Solori to main soulbeast now xD . Why not enjoy 2000 range lb autos on wvw and crit for 19k ? O wait you havent seen that video yet?

 

I saw the one you sent me the other day but it was not lb. Feel free to link that one to me in pm :)

[Abelisk.4527]

Oh wait, the evade was actually .75s during beta my bad lol

[Curunen.8729]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Curunen.8729" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Abelisk.4527" said:

> > > Since when clones had 1.25s evade ?

> > > And it seems mirage being balanced only around IH without consideration not taking it . Without IH none of ambushes were OP enough to nerf any

> >

> > To be honest there is no consideration not taking IH because Anet seem to want to force everyone to play IH. xD

> >

> > They should just do this in the trait tree (IH looks better in the middle for symmetry xD):

> > 

> > Would save them a lot of balancing hassle and us a lot of false build choices.

>

> Have you tried to play without IH ? Its impossible

> We also have no alternatives . They should just make IH baselane since they balance mirage ONLY around it (idk what their reasoning to give IA 35s cd while bulls*it stance on ranger is 40 ,can we arrange a transfer?)

 

I was advocating IH as grandmaster minor trait so that all of mirage could be balanced around it right from pof demo. Still am in favour of this happening at some point in the future.