Revenant unwanted in raids??

[Bahamoth.8053]

hey guys I know this has been probably brought up a few times. When POF came out I was excited that now I would have a chance joining Raid groups as RENEGADE. But that was an epic fail. I still cannot join a single group or even the ones from my guild. It is frustrating not to be able to join a single raid with my class. It is even crazy to be at the RAID Area and not seeing a single revenant. That place is filled with mesmers and warriors etc. Anybody feeling with me ? :)

[Shirlias.8104]

You can join as revenant ( Ventari during some fights, and i guess also other builds ).

You probably mean "i can't join raid with a build which is not needed but i would like to play".

[Bahamoth.8053]

I actually use that build but a lot of raid do not take revenant in general

[Feanor.2358]

> @Bahamoth.8053 said:

> hey guys I know this has been probably brought up a few times. When POF came out I was excited that now I would have a chance joining Raid groups as RENEGADE. But that was an epic fail. I still cannot join a single group or even the ones from my guild. It is frustrating not to be able to join a single raid with my class. It is even crazy to be at the RAID Area and not seeing a single revenant. That place is filled with mesmers and warriors etc. Anybody feeling with me ? :)

 

I played Renegade last night on Sabetha with my group. My advice would be: find a guild to raid with.

[Chickenooble.5014]

If you have problems with your Rev just pick a different class to raid with. It'll take a bit of time to level up and learn your class but you'll have more options.

 

It's not the communities fault that they don't want you and you don't want to put in the effort to make yourself marketable.

[Danikat.8537]

This isn't a problem with the game itself - Anet haven't blocked you from entering a raid on a revenant or put in mechanics which prevent groups from completing a raid if a revenant is there. It's players who are making that decision. Even if they have solid reasons for that (I honestly don't know anything about preferred raid groups so I have no idea why they wouldn't let you join) Anet's ability to change it is limited. For example there was never actually anything wrong with rangers in dungeons, only with certain builds (mainly ones that relied on the longbow and staying at range) but even after various balance patches "fixed" that it took months, if not years for most PUG groups to accept rangers. And during that time many groups wouldn't even give you time to say "It's ok, I'm not using longbow" or even "I'll swap to another character" - they saw you were a ranger and kicked you, end of 'discussion'.

 

So you have three choices:

1) Keep asking/hoping for balance changes that make revenants more desirable in raids and hope the meta-game picks up on that and players actually start accepting revenants, understanding that it could take months for Anet to make those changes and several months after that for players to catch up.

2) Find a group which will accept you now. Yes it sucks if your current guild won't let you even try, but there will be guilds out there who will.

3) Play another profession in raids.

 

(If you go for option 2 be aware they'll be allowing everyone else the same freedom so you'll probably be playing with other people who aren't using currently popular raid builds and/or don't have full ascended equipment and may well not know what they're doing, at least at first. So there will be no guarantee of success, but it's better than not being allowed in at all.)

[Bahamoth.8053]

Yeah Danikat that is the problem I know the issue. I only see mesmers and warriors. I do not see anhy Thiefs even doing the raids. And ch> @Chickenooble.5014 said:

> If you have problems with your Rev just pick a different class to raid with. It'll take a bit of time to level up and learn your class but you'll have more options.

>

> It's not the communities fault that they don't want you and you don't want to put in the effort to make yourself marketable.

 

I changed and invested a lot of gold changing my build on and on again and still was not enough to take me.

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

Create your own Raid group, and specify any Profession welcome? That's always another option.

 

Good luck.

[FaboBabo.3581]

Dude gimme 3 weeks until i got a new pc and then we're gonna to Casual raiding . only one rule ; stfu about my dps as long as we win. :D

[VaLee.5102]

The game's "no hard trinity" profession system was never made for content like raids, so the class balance is all over the place. ANet released raids just to shut up the hardcore community, which don't mind switching classes to get the optimal results since they already have 10-20 fully geared characters each.

 

Raids are not meant for the casual player in GW2 (compared to WoW for example), so if you wanna be invited you'll have to go meta or, like others said, find a guild to carry you.

[TexZero.7910]

i have to question this since you said even your guild wont accept you....

 

Have you done some introspective into why that might possibly be the case ? Because in my experience when it comes to guild groups not accepting you, it's less to do about what you bring class wise and more to deal with what you bring drama wise.

[Abakk.9176]

Seems odd that this game gives you a meriad of options to create the character that fits your personal style like a glove but then throws it back in your face when you reach endgame. Or rather, your fellow players throw it back...

 

Maybe computergames should be a mandatory course during ones schoolyears.

 

 

[Ventris.3208]

Depends on how you look at raiding and what do you want from it.

I joined [this](

"this") raiding group because I wanted to unlock HoT masteries but didn't want to change my main power PS to condi PS to become meta. In groups like this, all builds and all classes can raid in casual friendly environment. Main purpose here is having fun...

 

If you want to be hardcore Raid player then use right tool for the job! META is a list of tools appropriate for that job. Unfortunately, Renegade currently is not one of them.

As much as I hate meta, meta really is all about effectiveness... and I'll choose fun over effectiveness anytime B)

[Manijin.3428]

It's a community problem. People get obsessed with the meta and let it run their lives. That's why you get people complaining about solo PvE content being too hard. Just find a group willing to play the game with you, or make them give you a chance to prove you're an asset to the team. Or, yeah, start your own casual raid open to everyone.

[Fermi.2409]

> @FaboBabo.3581 said:

> Dude gimme 3 weeks until i got a new pc and then we're gonna to Casual raiding . only one rule ; kitten about my dps as long as we win. :D

 

If you want to win you're going to have to care about your DPS

[Ayakaru.6583]

Every class can bring something to raids, but not every specialization.

the WHOLE POINT of raiding is that you use an optimized set of skills to tackle a hard to overcome obstacle. It's not about the area being unwelcoming to your class,

it's about you adapting to the area.

The area isn't gonna pour you a cup of tea, and adjust it's skills to you, it's YOU who has to adapt their builds to SURVIVE in there.

 

rough example:

evolution > there are two snakes, one with a tough hide, the other with venemous fangs. Over time the prey in the woods become agile and nimble. The strong snake can more easily strangle his prey, while the venemous snake has trouble landing hits on agile targets. Now, is the nature at fault for creating an environment unfit for the venemous snake, or is the snake at fault for using a 'build' thats not sufficient?

[Danikat.8537]

> @TexZero.7910 said:

> i have to question this since you said even your guild wont accept you....

>

> Have you done some introspective into why that might possibly be the case ? Because in my experience when it comes to guild groups not accepting you, it's less to do about what you bring class wise and more to deal with what you bring drama wise.

 

It depends on the guild.

 

One of my guilds has a whole system in place for teaching new people to raid and they'll let anyone join in, **but** their attitude is very much that learning which builds are 'required' and how to use them is as much part of learning to raid as knowing the mechanics of the boss fights. So the expectation is that if you sign up to learn raiding you are prepared to adapt one of your characters or make a new one to get an acceptable build. They'll give you a lot of support, even lending gold or materials to make ascended equipment, helping you grind for XP/Tomes if you don't have enough for a new level 80 etc. but it's all focused on getting you to the point where you have a character that fits the raiding meta. If you don't want to do that then they'll say they can't help you.

 

Another of my guilds also has a 'casual/teaching' raid night which is much less informal - that's literally just a night when anyone can join a raid on any character they want to bring and they go along and do the best they can.

 

Which is better is a matter of opinion. The first group certainly does better at killing the bosses and people can move on from there to the guilds main raid squad or raiding with other people, whereas the second group considers it a good night if they clear 1 boss, but seem to have a lot less arguments.

[TexZero.7910]

> @Danikat.8537 said:

> > @TexZero.7910 said:

> > i have to question this since you said even your guild wont accept you....

> >

> > Have you done some introspective into why that might possibly be the case ? Because in my experience when it comes to guild groups not accepting you, it's less to do about what you bring class wise and more to deal with what you bring drama wise.

>

> It depends on the guild.

>

> One of my guilds has a whole system in place for teaching new people to raid and they'll let anyone join in, **but** their attitude is very much that learning which builds are 'required' and how to use them is as much part of learning to raid as knowing the mechanics of the boss fights. So the expectation is that if you sign up to learn raiding you are prepared to adapt one of your characters or make a new one to get an acceptable build. They'll give you a lot of support, even lending gold or materials to make ascended equipment, helping you grind for XP/Tomes if you don't have enough for a new level 80 etc. but it's all focused on getting you to the point where you have a character that fits the raiding meta. If you don't want to do that then they'll say they can't help you.

>

> Another of my guilds also has a 'casual/teaching' raid night which is much less informal - that's literally just a night when anyone can join a raid on any character they want to bring and they go along and do the best they can.

>

> Which is better is a matter of opinion. The first group certainly does better at killing the bosses and people can move on from there to the guilds main raid squad or raiding with other people, whereas the second group considers it a good night if they clear 1 boss, but seem to have a lot less arguments.

 

Sure, but in both cases here the end root of disagreements is the player in question. Either they joined the wrong group for them, or somehow they did something worthy of them being rudolph in the reindeer games.

[Manijin.3428]

> @Ayakaru.6583 said:

> Every class can bring something to raids, but not every specialization.

> the WHOLE POINT of raiding is that you use an optimized set of skills to tackle a hard to overcome obstacle. It's not about the area being unwelcoming to your class,

> it's about you adapting to the area.

> The area isn't gonna pour you a cup of tea, and adjust it's skills to you, it's YOU who has to adapt their builds to SURVIVE in there.

>

> rough example:

> evolution > there are two snakes, one with a tough hide, the other with venemous fangs. Over time the prey in the woods become agile and nimble. The strong snake can more easily strangle his prey, while the venemous snake has trouble landing hits on agile targets. Now, is the nature at fault for creating an environment unfit for the venemous snake, or is the snake at fault for using a 'build' thats not sufficient?

 

If the best players of the game can beat raids with less than a full group in green gear, I'm pretty sure a maxed out character in a full raid group can complete the content. GW2 players are just windbags that get addicted to Meta builds without realizing that understanding fight mechanics is more important that top-tier DEEPS.

 

Also, the example makes no sense. I know what you were going for, but... oof. :P

[sigur.9453]

> @Manijin.3428 said:

> > @Ayakaru.6583 said:

> > Every class can bring something to raids, but not every specialization.

> > the WHOLE POINT of raiding is that you use an optimized set of skills to tackle a hard to overcome obstacle. It's not about the area being unwelcoming to your class,

> > it's about you adapting to the area.

> > The area isn't gonna pour you a cup of tea, and adjust it's skills to you, it's YOU who has to adapt their builds to SURVIVE in there.

> >

> > rough example:

> > evolution > there are two snakes, one with a tough hide, the other with venemous fangs. Over time the prey in the woods become agile and nimble. The strong snake can more easily strangle his prey, while the venemous snake has trouble landing hits on agile targets. Now, is the nature at fault for creating an environment unfit for the venemous snake, or is the snake at fault for using a 'build' thats not sufficient?

>

> If the best players of the game can beat raids with less than a full group in green gear, I'm pretty sure a maxed out character in a full raid group can complete the content. GW2 players are just windbags that get addicted to Meta builds without realizing that understanding fight mechanics is more important that top-tier DEEPS.

>

> Also, the example makes no sense. I know what you were going for, but... oof. :P

 

Still, those player in green gear do 4times more dps than other players in full asc.

[Theocraft.6053]

I am currently playing mostly dh, but I was playing rev as power (very pleasant gameplay, but really not desirable anywhere since it has low dps) and condi rev (don't like condi, so I didn't like gameplay BUT its dps were very often one of the best in the group (check 'arc dps meter'). I would think that renegade should be at least acceptable...

 

I don't like content where people get salty, and raid is part of such content, but I would suggest:

- get a good build based on older meta builds (there is probably no official meta builds with dps)

- get raiding guild with some NORMAL people (not too casual and not too elitist, you will get frustrated with either of the groups for different reasons)

- don't even try to PUG, I get a big raise in blood pressure even in T3 fractal pugs quite often, in dungeons even more often and raids from what I heard are way way more demanding

 

And seriously, don't let it bother you too much :) Have fun and good luck!

[tigirius.9014]

Sounds like you met the infamous elitest jerks

 

This has been something Engineers have had to deal with for some time now long before Holosmith was even thought of.

[Vyriis.6258]

> @Ayakaru.6583 said:

> Every class can bring something to raids, but not every specialization.

> the WHOLE POINT of raiding is that you use an optimized set of skills to tackle a hard to overcome obstacle. It's not about the area being unwelcoming to your class,

> it's about you adapting to the area.

> The area isn't gonna pour you a cup of tea, and adjust it's skills to you, it's YOU who has to adapt their builds to SURVIVE in there.

>

> rough example:

> evolution > there are two snakes, one with a tough hide, the other with venemous fangs. Over time the prey in the woods become agile and nimble. The strong snake can more easily strangle his prey, while the venemous snake has trouble landing hits on agile targets. Now, is the nature at fault for creating an environment unfit for the venemous snake, or is the snake at fault for using a 'build' thats not sufficient?

 

The problem with your attempt at explaining why certain builds are bad is that when prey evolves so does the predator, they don't always just die off. The venomous snake would learn to anticipate where their pray is going to move and would start landing its fangs where they need to be again. Or they would learn to lie in wait, as they do irl, and strike when the time is right. Even when skin becomes thicker and tougher they'd learn where they can and can not strike or they learn to spit their venom to produce the same effects as when they would need to bite their pray. Also falls flat when you consider if the "tough snake" is able to get a strangle hold on their pray to choke it out so too would the venomous snake be able to get a hold of it and then pierce it with its fangs.

 

Anyways, to the OP: Renegade might not be "Meta", but honestly the meta is garbage. It's meant for try hards and speed runners. I've run Condi Renegade the past two weeks in my raid group (most all of them running the same builds they've been since before PoF) and we've been moving through everything just as fast (avg: 2:10/h full clear [4 wings]). Renegade has opened up a few options that have actually sped things up a bit as well. A Rev, for starters, on the team boost Ferocity to the power classes. Renegade provides a bit of extra bleeding to condi classes and can also provide a good amount of flat dps, in the form of life steal, to those classes that have fast, multi hit, attacks (Guards, Thieves, Eles). Renegade provides a great form of CC with Darkrazor and SB 5 (Not forgetting Revs Axe 5 as well). I do run SB on off set, which all the elitists in here will call me out for, but I honestly don't care; it offers a break away when I need to get something no one else wants to (Orbs on gorse, shards on xera, greens on VG, if you get stuck with agony on Cairn), and it allows for maintained dps on Deimos when it's questionable if you might step in oils while in melee. Renegade is also, as far as I've noticed, one of the best for cannons on Sab (Searing Fissure, Citadel Bombardment, Unyielding Anguish, leave platform [those three skills bring it to 50% when cast with the condis finishing it off before you even touch the main platform]). Rev still remains the best for holding rear wargs for escort (made even better via Icerazor); being able to kill them within 1,200 - 1,500 of their spawn (before they reach the first set of mines).

 

In all Renegade is still very much viable in raids; it's just a matter of people not looking at what's "meta" and dismissing everything else. Condi Rev has been, and will continue to be, a good dps class that people keep overlooking; though this could also be because a lot of people think it's just spamming Mace 2 + 3 and auto with EtD up... Which it's not, but either way: don't get discouraged! Rev/Renegade is still a great class for raids.

[sorudo.9054]

if a game content is exclusive to only a hand full of professions then it's time for Anet to change it big time, any class regardless should be able to join and if not then it's the content's fault.

[Blaeys.3102]

You will get a lot of back seat advice with a question like this, ranging from "find a guild" (even if it means abandoning one you enjoy being in now) to "start your own group" (even if you know nothing about the raid fights) to "you just don't know how to play" (a phrase that needs to be banned in game and on the forums), but none of it changes the fact that the HUGE disparity between professions and builds makes it very frustrating to play many professions that you enjoy - to the point that many just give up on raids completely.

 

Raids create an exclusive environment that perpetuates a "play the one true way or gtfo" mentality. And while it is at least partially player driven, the fault - and ultimate responsibility to fix it - rests with the developers. It is time for them to set aside their stubborn shortsighted concepts of what a raid "has to be" and fix this.