tontonUB.4687 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Hello, After years, it finally happened ! What i dreamt about and ... oh, no, they did it to gyros. Gyros became 'wells' , and move with caster of the skill. I'd really like necro wells to receive such a treatment, too : wells moving with caster (centered on him). A lot of peoples may complain about the loss of the ability to cast them away. But it would be a loss for a gain. Especially if Anet decide to add an elite well skill. What do you think ? PS forgive spelling, grammar etc, because i'm not an english native. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EremiteAngel.9765 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Hmm... From a WvW perspective, I would say that it is more beneficial to have the flexibility of range-casting the wells. One trait that suffers though for range-casting wells is the Vampiric Ritual trait where the protection boon only applies if the well is casted on friendlies. So range-casting wells on enemies will be a waste of the protection boon. I might be using the wells wrongly though XD Can't say for PvP or PvE since I don't play them often... What do you have in mind though for preferring mobile wells? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tontonUB.4687 Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 Hello, I agree about the loss of range. On the other side, as a necro (core), i lack disengage / runaway skills. Having wells centered on caster AND following him could help a bit in term of disengaging. It will also boost the effectiveness of necro while moving (with the help of wells pulsing and following him). More offensive gameplay too, coupled with more direct involvment (melee wise). And in terms of pure defense against direct pressure on the necro, it will help a lot too. I also think that having to pay from my character (by having to go where i want to launch well) life, for using powerfull abilities, is a good counterpart for the modification of the wells (in opposition with some well known spec stacking multi perma boons, dps-ing from afar and stealthing in chain, per example). BTW, thank you for reply and sharing opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 Well, most of the strength of the scrapper's _wells_ come from the fact that they got tons of finishers and their _wells_ got useful fields. Necro _wells_ don't benefit from having "good" field and necromancer's finishers are mostly clunky to say the least. I'd say that the real issue is that necromancer's _wells_ have too "strong" effect to be allowed to stick to the necromancer. I wouldn't mind if half this strength came from actively taking advantage of the field via combo finisher but that's not the case. Edit: With scourge we already had a taste of the hate that the necromancer would get if it's _wells_ could stick with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tontonUB.4687 Posted March 10, 2019 Author Share Posted March 10, 2019 Hello, You are right, Dadnir. Of course, necro wells should be reviewed if they had to follow caster (despite necro missing an elite well skill). I also had this rune in mind, giving 2 sec of quickness when casting a well. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Superior_Rune_of_the_Chronomancer. I thought and still think it would help necro not to feel like a dead snail on the battleground, especially coupled with moving effects of wells. And about hate against moving wells , scrappers will taste a bit of it soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 One of the reasons necros have been meta in wvw as a damage source since the beginning is because of their access to ranged aoe attacks. I wouldn't want that aspect of them nerfed, even if I do love the idea of portable point blank aoe attacks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 as interesting of an idea it is i doubt it will lead to anythig mostly because there are bigger design issues in the game, even when just looking at necro (you know what i'm talking about) or maybe anet will make it standard well behavior for wells to reign in the AoE spam in WvW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gavyne.6847 Posted March 10, 2019 Share Posted March 10, 2019 We pretty much have a moving well in Harbringer Shroud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 Obviously overpowered on scourge. That spec is a walking shade and would become a walking triple-well on top of that. Even for reaper shroud I see some imbalances. Imagine a full soldier gear wells reaper at melee range in the zerg. Stips boons, converts conditions, deals damage... all unblockable and all at once - multiply that with 5 as 5 reapers could cover each other. They would be unstoppable. Both necro elite specs would be overpowered in melee range. Only core could _maybe_ get away with the label "balanced" after such a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethro.9376 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > Even for reaper shroud I see some imbalances. Imagine a full soldier gear wells reaper at melee range in the zerg. Stips boons, converts conditions, deals damage... all unblockable and all at once - multiply that with 5 as 5 reapers could cover each other. They would be unstoppable. Isn't that what shout reaper used to be and still is? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrHome.1920 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 > @"Jethro.9376" said: > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > Even for reaper shroud I see some imbalances. Imagine a full soldier gear wells reaper at melee range in the zerg. Stips boons, converts conditions, deals damage... all unblockable and all at once - multiply that with 5 as 5 reapers could cover each other. They would be unstoppable. > > Isn't that what shout reaper used to be and still is? If you give shouts 6 pulses and make them unblockabe, then yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sigmoid.7082 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 > @"Jethro.9376" said: > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > Even for reaper shroud I see some imbalances. Imagine a full soldier gear wells reaper at melee range in the zerg. Stips boons, converts conditions, deals damage... all unblockable and all at once - multiply that with 5 as 5 reapers could cover each other. They would be unstoppable. > > Isn't that what shout reaper used to be and still is? > > Shouts wouldn't be/aren't anywhere near as strong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jethro.9376 Posted March 11, 2019 Share Posted March 11, 2019 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > If you give shouts 6 pulses and make them unblockabe, then yes. > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > Shouts wouldn't be/aren't anywhere near as strong. I was more takling about the concept of melee AoE boon corrupt. Obviously necro wells would be broken if they would follow you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardRider.2980 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 IF... IF it changes I would want the change via traits. One for them to be range based.. then traited makes them on you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZDragon.3046 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > Well, most of the strength of the scrapper's _wells_ come from the fact that they got tons of finishers and their _wells_ got useful fields. Necro _wells_ don't benefit from having "good" field and necromancer's finishers are mostly clunky to say the least. > > I'd say that the real issue is that necromancer's _wells_ have too "strong" effect to be allowed to stick to the necromancer. I wouldn't mind if half this strength came from actively taking advantage of the field via combo finisher but that's not the case. The idea of having a wells stick to the necro was something i posted ages ago even before HoT i think when berserker was the first to get a mobile fire field on its torch off hand skill. But in my idea it was required that you have the wells traited This was back when well would only summon at your location and traiting them allowed them to be placed at range. Buuuut you might be right in most cases the necros well effects (some of them) are too strong to possibly be stuck to the necro (mostly well of suffering and well of corruption) but darkness, power, and blood could possibly be changed and be ok. > > Edit: With scourge we already had a taste of the hate that the necromancer would get if it's _wells_ could stick with them. I dont think thats what really got peoples blood boiling. The hate didn't come from the aoe being mobile the hate came from the fact that for about 2 months the aoe could be placed at range and instantly melt someone. Then after it got its bugs fixed for a class that was suppose to be support it was still throwing out tons of insta melting levels of damage, the aoe zones were not super clear to people like they are now, and even once that was fixed the visuals in general just annoy the heck out of everyone. Scouge became the bane of wvw and is still top tier there because of its aoes which people absolutely loathed I think the least contributing factor was because "its an aoe that sticks to them" In fact if the aoe only stuck to the scourge and shades did not exists I dont think people would have cared nearly as much as it would require the scourge to take great risk and puts them in danger of being instantly shut down by anything with mobility and evades or a 600+ range weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted March 12, 2019 Share Posted March 12, 2019 > @"Sigmoid.7082" said: > > @"Jethro.9376" said: > > > @"KrHome.1920" said: > > > Even for reaper shroud I see some imbalances. Imagine a full soldier gear wells reaper at melee range in the zerg. Stips boons, converts conditions, deals damage... all unblockable and all at once - multiply that with 5 as 5 reapers could cover each other. They would be unstoppable. > > > > Isn't that what shout reaper used to be and still is? > > > > > > Shouts wouldn't be/aren't anywhere near as strong. I think he means the old Reaper runes condi shout reaper. Truly a melee terror in the old WvW HoT meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinhZeri.6412 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 wow def no. Anyone even considering this change is out of their mind or def not a purist necromancer player. They are fine as they are now..... and im a Necromancer main since beta. Other classes need to go down to our level and properly be balanced for once. We are actually one of the more balanced classes (scourge... well is exception lol. if they just made sand shroud a darn shroud like the reaper and core they wouldnt be such a bane to our existence) Scourge i hate even playing on how braindead it is. Reapers shouts should probably work like what you said for the Wells and id be all for it. Shouts i find i barely use and if i do its more niche set ups to mess around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 > @"LinhZeri.6412" said: > wow def no. Anyone even considering this change is out of their mind or def not a purist necromancer player. They are fine as they are now..... and im a Necromancer main since beta. Other classes need to go down to our level and properly be balanced for once. We are actually one of the more balanced classes (scourge... well is exception lol. if they just made sand shroud a darn shroud like the reaper and core they wouldnt be such a bane to our existence) Scourge i hate even playing on how braindead it is. > > Reapers shouts should probably work like what you said for the Wells and id be all for it. Shouts i find i barely use and if i do its more niche set ups to mess around. I do think, that you can even call scourge balanced. It has some very clear weaknesses. The problem with scourge is more: stacking scourges But that's a design problem that won't get changed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XECOR.2814 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 > @"KrHome.1920" said: > Obviously overpowered on scourge. That spec is a walking shade and would become a walking triple-well on top of that. > > Even for reaper shroud I see some imbalances. Imagine a full soldier gear wells reaper at melee range in the zerg. Stips boons, converts conditions, deals damage... all unblockable and all at once - multiply that with 5 as 5 reapers could cover each other. They would be unstoppable. > > Both necro elite specs would be overpowered in melee range. Only core could _maybe_ get away with the label "balanced" after such a change. You would need to suicide to kill stuff. Its op now because you can cast them from range at a single point anyway. Its actually more devastating rn because it does not endanger necro which is the reason for its popularity in wvw. I think moving wells with player will increase personal sustain with damage, blinds, prot on self etc and reduce wvw dominance which imo is fair. Necro in zergs is insane guys dont kid yourself. We need better balance between roaming and zerging. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LinhZeri.6412 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"LinhZeri.6412" said: > > wow def no. Anyone even considering this change is out of their mind or def not a purist necromancer player. They are fine as they are now..... and im a Necromancer main since beta. Other classes need to go down to our level and properly be balanced for once. We are actually one of the more balanced classes (scourge... well is exception lol. if they just made sand shroud a darn shroud like the reaper and core they wouldnt be such a bane to our existence) Scourge i hate even playing on how braindead it is. > > > > Reapers shouts should probably work like what you said for the Wells and id be all for it. Shouts i find i barely use and if i do its more niche set ups to mess around. > > I do think, that you can even call scourge balanced. > It has some very clear weaknesses. > The problem with scourge is more: stacking scourges > But that's a design problem that won't get changed I see your point I guess im more on it being so out of the range of what necromancer was designed to be. It has access to everything without any hinderance while you got Core Necromancer and Reaper needing to shroud and replacing skills. Sure its balanced for what it is but really its a spammy and really i find myself just mashing buttons when doing any sort of pve or wvw game modes. I mean what do scourges do for damage? spam their scourge abilities on cooldown and just stand around people in your area... just very off of a playstyle . Nevertheless, a clear point on the stacking in teams for sure. Thats the major issue. No clue how to address it. I still think the single shade should be baseline OR remove the trait to assure 3 shades is how to go. Just make it consistent already anet. PS: Re-reading im pretty bias against the playstyle it seems hahah but hey it is an issue to say the least. damn it just give it its own shroud and ill prob be happier with it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigg.3961 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 I wouldn't mind if the well of blood followed me and the others stayed range. I really want to see an elite well before I die though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"Brigg.3961" said: > I wouldn't mind if the well of blood followed me and the others stayed range. I really want to see an elite well before I die though. we already have plaguelands Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lahmia.2193 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"Brigg.3961" said: > > I wouldn't mind if the well of blood followed me and the others stayed range. I really want to see an elite well before I die though. > > we already have plaguelands And Ghastly Breach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brigg.3961 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Plaguelands? The corruption elite? Ghastly breach? The punishment elite? Where's the well? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rexts.8037 Posted March 28, 2019 Share Posted March 28, 2019 > @"Brigg.3961" said: > Plaguelands? The corruption elite? Ghastly breach? The punishment elite? Where's the well? The current utility skill sets are incomplete, a lot of skill types are still missing either elite or healing skill, I don't know Anet that is there any possibility they will complete it, but I can only hope it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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