Even After the Balance Update, Warrior Still Struggles with Mesmer

[Odik.4587]

> @"Luna.6203" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > >Luna.6203 said:

> > >Now mostly from playing guardian i realized mesmer aren't that hard to kill..

> > But decided to create a whine-thread with a name "Mesmers are still op!" ... because you :

> > >"because I ~~play~~suck at warrior."

> > A legit reason to nerf something that alrdy not good. May be you should create a thread saying renegade crazy OP because they kill your warrior too ?

>

> And there we go.

> Not pointing anything that i mention as problem. Mesmer is already bad (for some reason).. even though it's still same as before patch.

> Quoting text cut from context.

> Putting words to my mouth.

> Telling me what should i "maybe" do and some stupid reason why should i do it .. becouse I'm stupid right ? i get point. ;)

> This is plain insult and flame.

Excuse me ,truth hurts... ?

> There was thousands of comments about mesmer and it's still same. It has to be spoken. They should be aware of problem. I think it's feedback. i tried to be constructive. Any warrior will confirm this. Stop lying! Stop pretend its okay. Its not its far from competitive fight. I'm done... As i said just try it. Really take warrior take mesmer and try it! and be done with this never ending denial.

What problem?

Lets put it to use : mirage being destroyed by noob guardians , mediocre soulbeasts ,noob scrappers, mediocre-average+ s/d thieves . Every mirage should complaint about unfairness of those matchups they cant win ,I actually like it ? Thats would be a feedback as well . To simplify : if you cant win certain MU you should spam NERF X CLASS threads?

Would be hilarious to see scrappers create whine threads how they cant win STR warriors or may be scourges ,dont you think?

O btw I dueled mesmer as warrior alrdy many times before and I was playing core because I find it better in most cases(tho I dont enjoy warrior anymore, it was a nice change for a while to play sword build but got bored quickly). That wasnt high tier mirage but I'm not super warrior either.

> I seriously tried to cover all problems. Gameplay and technical as well.. There are there. They are real. and they deserve to be addressed for further patches.

What do you mean even? You tried to get better and cant? No patch will fix it

> There is plenty of other classes ranger thief guard revenant engi.. you name it.. But all of these fight are enjoyable! Even if you loose! The balance by my personal opinion isn't really that bad as people saying. But chance beat mesmer with warrior is near >>> zero <<< really. Its completely out off of line. It's just no chance fight.. leave or die.. that's it. enjoy.

Speak for yourself. I dont really enjoy fighting nonsense as holosmiths that lose 80% hp to blast to hell turret and return to 100% with tons of life saving autoprocs or unkillable scrappers that even monkey able to keep alive infinitely.

If you have zero chances then you are really should get better ... Especially after patch, if you cant see difference before and after, thats speak for itself how good you are.

> **Just try it yourself.** Thanks!

I did . After patch killing average mirage should be a trivial task for the most players .

[Luna.6203]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > > >Luna.6203 said:

> > > >Now mostly from playing guardian i realized mesmer aren't that hard to kill..

> > > But decided to create a whine-thread with a name "Mesmers are still op!" ... because you :

> > > >"because I ~~play~~suck at warrior."

> > > A legit reason to nerf something that alrdy not good. May be you should create a thread saying renegade crazy OP because they kill your warrior too ?

> >

> > And there we go.

> > Not pointing anything that i mention as problem. Mesmer is already bad (for some reason).. even though it's still same as before patch.

> > Quoting text cut from context.

> > Putting words to my mouth.

> > Telling me what should i "maybe" do and some stupid reason why should i do it .. becouse I'm stupid right ? i get point. ;)

> > This is plain insult and flame.

> Excuse me ,truth hurts... ?

> > There was thousands of comments about mesmer and it's still same. It has to be spoken. They should be aware of problem. I think it's feedback. i tried to be constructive. Any warrior will confirm this. Stop lying! Stop pretend its okay. Its not its far from competitive fight. I'm done... As i said just try it. Really take warrior take mesmer and try it! and be done with this never ending denial.

> What problem?

> Lets put it to use : mirage being destroyed by noob guardians , mediocre soulbeasts ,noob scrappers, mediocre-average+ s/d thieves . Every mirage should complaint about unfairness of those matchups they cant win ,I actually like it ? Thats would be a feedback as well . To simplify : if you cant win certain MU you should spam NERF X CLASS threads?

> Would be hilarious to see scrappers create whine threads how they cant win STR warriors or may be scourges ,dont you think?

> O btw I dueled mesmer as warrior alrdy many times before and I was playing core because I find it better in most cases(tho I dont enjoy warrior anymore, it was a nice change for a while to play sword build but got bored quickly). That wasnt high tier mirage but I'm not super warrior either.

> > I seriously tried to cover all problems. Gameplay and technical as well.. There are there. They are real. and they deserve to be addressed for further patches.

> What do you mean even? You tried to get better and cant? No patch will fix it

> > There is plenty of other classes ranger thief guard revenant engi.. you name it.. But all of these fight are enjoyable! Even if you loose! The balance by my personal opinion isn't really that bad as people saying. But chance beat mesmer with warrior is near >>> zero <<< really. Its completely out off of line. It's just no chance fight.. leave or die.. that's it. enjoy.

> Speak for yourself. I dont really enjoy fighting nonsense as holosmiths that lose 80% hp to blast to hell turret and return to 100% with tons of life saving autoprocs or unkillable scrappers that even monkey able to keep alive infinitely.

> If you have zero chances then you are really should get better ... Especially after patch, if you cant see difference before and after, thats speak for itself how good you are.

> > **Just try it yourself.** Thanks!

> I did . After patch killing average mirage should be a trivial task for the most players .

 

 

Excuse me ,truth hurts... ?

What problem?

*

noob guardians

mediocre soulbeasts

noob scrappers

mediocre-average

*

scrappers create whine threads

What do you mean even? You tried to get better and cant? No patch will fix it

nonsense as holosmiths

unkillable scrappers

If you have zero chances then you are really should get better

killing average mirage should be a trivial task

 

---------

 

Please listen to yourself. Who is actually whine here ?

I don't know what to say.. your arguments are only: because you are noob. what can i answer to you ? No im not ? doesn't it matter ? How is that your comment contribute anything that i mention in origin post ? mobility/detargets/iframes compare to warrior. So now we are going to argue who is noob. OK i think ill pass. sorry im not interested.

 

P.S. i can imagine you playing core warrior. and i'm not surprised that you get bored.

 

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

> @"Luna.6203" said:

> There is plenty of other classes ranger thief guard revenant engi.. you name it.. But all of these fight are enjoyable! Even if you loose! The balance by my personal opinion isn't really that bad as people saying. But chance beat mesmer with warrior is near >>> zero <<< really. Its completely out off of line. It's just no chance fight.. leave or die.. that's it. enjoy.

 

Just because all match ups with your warrior are subjectively enjoyable except for mesmer, means mesmer is OP?

 

If that's the standard for what is OP, then any class that has difficulty with one particular class, or anyone who doesn't enjoy fighting one particular class, means that class is OP. Do you see the problem with this standard?

 

You are entitled to have the opinion that mesmers are not fun to fight with your warrior. But that opinion does not mean "Mesmers are still OP!" These are two very different things.

[Luna.6203]

> @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > There is plenty of other classes ranger thief guard revenant engi.. you name it.. But all of these fight are enjoyable! Even if you loose! The balance by my personal opinion isn't really that bad as people saying. But chance beat mesmer with warrior is near >>> zero <<< really. Its completely out off of line. It's just no chance fight.. leave or die.. that's it. enjoy.

>

> Just because all match ups with your warrior are subjectively enjoyable except for mesmer, means mesmer is OP?

>

> If that's the standard for what is OP, then any class that has difficulty with one particular class, or anyone who doesn't enjoy fighting one particular class, means that class is OP. Do you see the problem with this standard?

>

> You are entitled to have the opinion that mesmers are not fun to fight with your warrior. But that opinion does not mean "Mesmers are still OP!" These are two very different things.

 

Please read my original post i was very specific.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

> @"Luna.6203" said:

> > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > > There is plenty of other classes ranger thief guard revenant engi.. you name it.. But all of these fight are enjoyable! Even if you loose! The balance by my personal opinion isn't really that bad as people saying. But chance beat mesmer with warrior is near >>> zero <<< really. Its completely out off of line. It's just no chance fight.. leave or die.. that's it. enjoy.

> >

> > Just because all match ups with your warrior are subjectively enjoyable except for mesmer, means mesmer is OP?

> >

> > If that's the standard for what is OP, then any class that has difficulty with one particular class, or anyone who doesn't enjoy fighting one particular class, means that class is OP. Do you see the problem with this standard?

> >

> > You are entitled to have the opinion that mesmers are not fun to fight with your warrior. But that opinion does not mean "Mesmers are still OP!" These are two very different things.

>

> Please read my original post i was very specific.

 

I did. You said:

 

1. Mesmers aren't that hard to kill. You realized that by playing Guardian.

2. With Warrior you are fine against all classes but Mesmer.

 

Somehow just because your warrior struggles against Mesmer, but Mesmer is kept in check by other classes, Mesmer is OP? Really, please tell me what I'm missing.

[Daishi.6027]

> @"Luna.6203" said:

> > @"Daishi.6027" said:

> > > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > > You can also say problem is me. Look im 100% aware of hate that will comes upon me after posting this. Maybe i'm not top player but trust me or not i have a lot of experience with gw2 pvp.

> >

> > Glad you are aware of this, but sometimes it's not just about experience and it is your mindset in combat. Many of us have no problem with mesmer's regardless of class since release. Yes many of those people have mained it prior (although in reality there are many who have not) and are attuned to typical habits and what a mesmer can do or what resources they have spent.

> >

> > But the fact is you can do it too, one of the biggest tips I ever give anyone fighting a mesmer 1v1 is to not let them land anything that will kill you, and if you know what to look for and how to avoid it the mesmer will either eventually messup, get greedy, or get bored with an endless stalemate because they wont be able to kill you. This has only gotten easier and easier every patch, with warrior especially it's not hard to make them run just from a little pressure. Also another tip: if you get frustrated and start blowing cooldowns to chase you are only playing into their hands.

>

> Sorrry you are absolutely not pointing anything specific. It's just misty arguing that i'm probably just noob. I suppose... ? I'm not sure.. and it's okay i'm not offended. I wouldn't even react on this post but this one really catch my attention:

> "one of the biggest tips I ever give anyone fighting a mesmer 1v1 is to not let them land anything that will kill you" - This is your biggest tip?! I'm laugh crying now. That's protip. thanks for help.. I appreciate it. You just made my day during morning coffee.

 

Glad you're so amused, but do you know what a mesmer needs to actually land in order to kill you? Do you have any idea how to play around it or avoid it?

From your response I doubt you are aware that the rest of the kit wont be able to pressure you.

 

By analogy if a thief could **only** kill you with a back stab and you keep dying to it I don't think it's unreasonable to tell you to learn to play around backstabs. If you want to keep laughing that's fine, enjoy struggling vs mesmers with war. I wont be.

 

I'm intentionally not telling you directly so you put in some leg work and can learn it for yourself. That way you can get better, and will be able to deal with other problems that arise. From this entire thread it just seems like you're the type who wants to be carried by patches.

[Luna.6203]

So much main mesmers here that read hardly title or first paragraph. And now tell me its dead class.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

> @"Luna.6203" said:

> So much main mesmers here that read hardly title or first paragraph. And now tell me its dead class.

 

No. How could we not? You literally say:

 

## Mesmers are still op! and there is why - because i play warrior

 

But _why_, just because your warrior has a hard time with mesmer when other classes you've tried, don't, does that mean mesmer is OP? Stop pointing us to the original post. All it says is mesmer is hard for warrior. How does that translate to mesmer is _over powered_ across the board?

[Odik.4587]

@"Daishi.6027" @"Twilight Tempest.7584"

You are just copying my posts now (at least its meaning 100% the same) :/

I'm patiently wait until said person can play cmirage ... Not like its going to change its mind

[Ralkuth.1456]

You guys realize "Your opinion is wrong because my opinion is more right" kind of argument doesn't really lead to a resolved discussion right?

Nobody is going to change anyone else's opinion especially when there's a tendency to attack the other's position and undermine their claims.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

> @"Ralkuth.1456" said:

> You guys realize "Your opinion is wrong because my opinion is more right" kind of argument doesn't really lead to a resolved discussion right?

> Nobody is going to change anyone else's opinion especially when there's a tendency to attack the other's position and undermine their claims.

 

I just legit want to understand how OP's warrior only having trouble with mesmer means mesmer is objectively overpowered. I welcome you, OP, or anyone to explain that.

[Luna.6203]

Okay your arguments are (all of you mesmers) "Mirage after last nerfs IS bad" this is ctrl+c ctrl+v from privitate conversasion when Odik told me "You ignored my entire post"... and thats it.. okay.. And please dont act like you waiting for me. You anwer: "Add in game and spam me when you can play (if I wont be alttabed and on desktop at that time)" im not going to sit 24/7 ingame to spam you. If you want reveal whole conversion. But if you are serious about arena we have to agree on exact time .. otherwise its not going to work. (okay lets move somewhere what about friday or saturday 20:00 CET... example... i'll put it here publicly everyone is welcome.) Also if you looking for proper duel you have to fight my warrior. otherwise you are going to duel lvl 1 lobby char. Its ok for tests its will be far from experienced mirage. Especially... and now let me quote again "My main is MEMSER not just MIRAGE for 6 years". lets be real. One thing is to learn about class abilities (just for purpose to counter it)and second one is to play and build muscle memory its require practice and i'm not mirage main. If you want duel than it has to be friendly tests. not you suck im going to show you noob. For that i can log warrior where i have 1y practice.

 

Overall your argument are: you noob get good. problem is i never saw spellbreaker beat mirage.. not a signle time. so if you want to change my mind maybe show me video.. or give my any type of evidence.. someting more that just mirage is bad.. warrior is god but u noob.. In OP i tried to describe some situations from this fight. Where only @mortrialus.3062 give helpfull/contributing anwer. Rest is flame.

 

[Luna.6203]

Just make things clear:

 

I mention this at OP and im going to hold my promise.

 

> @"Luna.6203" said:

> If you want contact me and you can duel me in lobby arena.

 

There is my vision: friday 20:00 CET ok ? if not let me know and we can move it. otherwise consider it done. It's tomorrow so i hope it's not too much waiting.

 

You can meet my warrior in arena. You can try and then call me noob. I will record video and then post it on youtube unedited. So you will see whole fight from my perspective and criticise my mistakes.

 

Than we can move to alts.. But im not experienced with all classes: there is my graph: i have cut that from a bit older screesnhot bit its probally still same.

 


 

This is seriously max i can do.

Describe problem and make video evidence.

 

I'm not going to continue with this flame and insulting who is noob.. lets move somewhere or lets end it. Its up to you now.

[Odik.4587]

> @"Luna.6203" said:

> okay lets move somewhere what about friday or saturday 20:00 CET... example...

Friday, sooner it happen - better.

> Also if you looking for proper duel you have to fight my warrior. otherwise you are going to duel lvl 1 lobby char. Its ok for tests its will be far from experienced mirage

Mostly who you fight are rolled mirage because it was noobfriendly dodge1 spamming . They lose even to my core mesmer without inspiration (pre nerf even ...cant say plat badge is worth anything nowdays tho)

I thought you will spank my warrior with mirage because its even after nerfs strong as before, wasnt that the point that its too simple? Was thinkin you could understand me better once you play it (especially recent nerfs)

> If you want duel than it has to be friendly tests. not you suck im going to show you noob. For that i can log warrior where i have 1y practice.

Sure we can duel with warriors but...Who was calling me noob then...or its your Engrish ?

[Luna.6203]

> @"Odik.4587" said:

> > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > okay lets move somewhere what about friday or saturday 20:00 CET... example...

> Friday, sooner it happen - better.

> > Also if you looking for proper duel you have to fight my warrior. otherwise you are going to duel lvl 1 lobby char. Its ok for tests its will be far from experienced mirage

> Your level on char doesnt matter as it gets stats and everything from amulet/armor by default.

> Mostly who you fight are rolled mirage because it was noobfriendly dodge1 spamming . And those who you fight are no different. They lose even to my core mesmer without inspiration (cant say plat badge is worth anything nowdays tho)

> I thought you will spank my warrior with mirage because its even after nerfs strong as before... As I thought you could understand me better once you play it (especially recent nerfs)

> > If you want duel than it has to be friendly tests. not you suck im going to show you noob. For that i can log warrior where i have 1y practice.

> Sure we can duel with warriors but...Who was calling me noob then...or its your Engrish ?

 

Oh crap.. really ? "Engrish" ? before you start criticise my english please check yours .. you are not better.. i said i'm ready for hate but i was wrong this is disgusting. gw2 pvp chat/forum etc.. i'm sick of it. What the hell i put myself into. This is not worth it. I can't even read it anymore. It's so depressing. At this point i'll duel you only because i made promise. Then i'm done.

 

Sorry i bothered you with this thread. i don't care anymore. This is not way i want to spend my free time. Considering this forum represent game that i like I'm seriously sorry what happened here.

 

If i were forum moderator i would rename this topic to "how to fight mesmer". Delete everything exept this:

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

>

> For those not in the know, there is a keybind you can set in menu called "Previous Enemy."

>

> Bind it to something.

>

> It's pretty simple. If you detarget something manually, or are forced a detarget by a mesmer, or target something else it will retarget your previous enemy for you. A mesmer uses detarget? You can retarget them with 100% guarantee with the push of a button immediately. No tab targeting through clones.

>

> Mesmer thief or anything else stealths? You can retarget them once they've left with with 100% effectiveness. No tabbing through clones or other enemy team members. Always just get your previous enemy 100% of the time.

>

> 

 

This answer is only reason why i'm glad i made this thread.

And despite of how much i disagree with mesmer balance and i disagree a lot.

## Because let's be honest this started with clone rework..

followed by spellbreaker defence nerfs and epic 75% counter damage nerf. 75%! That means you can't clear clones with it anymore.

 

But i just leave gw2 pvp. problem solved.

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Luna.6203" said:

> > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > > okay lets move somewhere what about friday or saturday 20:00 CET... example...

> > Friday, sooner it happen - better.

> > > Also if you looking for proper duel you have to fight my warrior. otherwise you are going to duel lvl 1 lobby char. Its ok for tests its will be far from experienced mirage

> > Your level on char doesnt matter as it gets stats and everything from amulet/armor by default.

> > Mostly who you fight are rolled mirage because it was noobfriendly dodge1 spamming . And those who you fight are no different. They lose even to my core mesmer without inspiration (cant say plat badge is worth anything nowdays tho)

> > I thought you will spank my warrior with mirage because its even after nerfs strong as before... As I thought you could understand me better once you play it (especially recent nerfs)

> > > If you want duel than it has to be friendly tests. not you suck im going to show you noob. For that i can log warrior where i have 1y practice.

> > Sure we can duel with warriors but...Who was calling me noob then...or its your Engrish ?

>

> Oh kitten.. really ? "Engrish" ? before you start criticise my english please check yours .. you are not better.. i said i'm ready for hate but i was wrong this is disgusting. gw2 pvp chat/forum etc.. i'm sick of it. What the hell i put myself into. This is not worth it. I can't even read it anymore. It's so depressing. At this point i'll duel you only because i made promise. Then i'm done.

>

> (...)

 

Yes, the forum is often quite negative and many people prefer (more or less personal) attacks over arguments. Also, the opinion of the replys not often represents the opinion of the broad mass - there are, for example, a lot of frustrated ele mains here jumping around whenever someone mentions anything remotely related to ele. Same goes for mesmer, you just stang in a bee's nest.

 

I am not saying condi mesmer is in a bad or good spot here. it seems good, but not OP, don't know yet if it will make it into the meta now tbh. Some duels will hardly change my mind or that of any other palyer, but if you are both happy about it, that's fine.

 

Just don't take toxicity ingame or in the forum too serious and take some distance from those if you need it. Enjoy it however you can! :smile:

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

The problem with most condi mirage nerfs is that it affected power the most and power was already lackluster.

[Luna.6203]

> @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > > > okay lets move somewhere what about friday or saturday 20:00 CET... example...

> > > Friday, sooner it happen - better.

> > > > Also if you looking for proper duel you have to fight my warrior. otherwise you are going to duel lvl 1 lobby char. Its ok for tests its will be far from experienced mirage

> > > Your level on char doesnt matter as it gets stats and everything from amulet/armor by default.

> > > Mostly who you fight are rolled mirage because it was noobfriendly dodge1 spamming . And those who you fight are no different. They lose even to my core mesmer without inspiration (cant say plat badge is worth anything nowdays tho)

> > > I thought you will spank my warrior with mirage because its even after nerfs strong as before... As I thought you could understand me better once you play it (especially recent nerfs)

> > > > If you want duel than it has to be friendly tests. not you suck im going to show you noob. For that i can log warrior where i have 1y practice.

> > > Sure we can duel with warriors but...Who was calling me noob then...or its your Engrish ?

> >

> > Oh kitten.. really ? "Engrish" ? before you start criticise my english please check yours .. you are not better.. i said i'm ready for hate but i was wrong this is disgusting. gw2 pvp chat/forum etc.. i'm sick of it. What the hell i put myself into. This is not worth it. I can't even read it anymore. It's so depressing. At this point i'll duel you only because i made promise. Then i'm done.

> >

> > (...)

>

> Yes, the forum is often quite negative and many people prefer (more or less personal) attacks over arguments. Also, the opinion of the replys not often represents the opinion of the broad mass - there are, for example, a lot of frustrated ele mains here jumping around whenever someone mentions anything remotely related to ele. Same goes for mesmer, you just stang in a bee's nest.

>

> I am not saying condi mesmer is in a bad or good spot here. it seems good, but not OP, don't know yet if it will make it into the meta now tbh. Some duels will hardly change my mind or that of any other palyer, but if you are both happy about it, that's fine.

>

> Just don't take toxicity ingame or in the forum too serious and take some distance from those if you need it. Enjoy it however you can! :smile:

 

I'm scared to continue... but...

Most of my comments comes from morning when i was in hurry and bit sleepy. So i'm aware some mistypes i could eventually edit ...

 

The mirage problem is (by my personal opinion) that some classes are range (so you dont need to care about mobility). Or some classes has masive aoe so you dont have to care about target. From warrior perspective.. well i don't want to repeat myself. I made myself clear. and i believe every spellbreaker main out there would confirm that but its maybe 5% player base ? i dont know..

 

Anyway im used to deal with insane toxicity in spvp chat. where i usually ignore it. Still it's annoying. I just leave gw2 pvp. Its best i can do at this point. I really enjoyed pvp in past but after recent patches.. Well some things gets better some gets worse. Maybe next expansion i give it second try.

 

On second thought. i don't care about rating or reward pips i can do same or even better in pve. And if i compare fun i had in raid with guild mates to this.. Only thing i ever wanted from pvp as reward was legendary wings. (I have to confess that) Which i have already. well so... Im done.

 

 

[apharma.3741]

> @"Luna.6203" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > > > > okay lets move somewhere what about friday or saturday 20:00 CET... example...

> > > > Friday, sooner it happen - better.

> > > > > Also if you looking for proper duel you have to fight my warrior. otherwise you are going to duel lvl 1 lobby char. Its ok for tests its will be far from experienced mirage

> > > > Your level on char doesnt matter as it gets stats and everything from amulet/armor by default.

> > > > Mostly who you fight are rolled mirage because it was noobfriendly dodge1 spamming . And those who you fight are no different. They lose even to my core mesmer without inspiration (cant say plat badge is worth anything nowdays tho)

> > > > I thought you will spank my warrior with mirage because its even after nerfs strong as before... As I thought you could understand me better once you play it (especially recent nerfs)

> > > > > If you want duel than it has to be friendly tests. not you suck im going to show you noob. For that i can log warrior where i have 1y practice.

> > > > Sure we can duel with warriors but...Who was calling me noob then...or its your Engrish ?

> > >

> > > Oh kitten.. really ? "Engrish" ? before you start criticise my english please check yours .. you are not better.. i said i'm ready for hate but i was wrong this is disgusting. gw2 pvp chat/forum etc.. i'm sick of it. What the hell i put myself into. This is not worth it. I can't even read it anymore. It's so depressing. At this point i'll duel you only because i made promise. Then i'm done.

> > >

> > > (...)

> >

> > Yes, the forum is often quite negative and many people prefer (more or less personal) attacks over arguments. Also, the opinion of the replys not often represents the opinion of the broad mass - there are, for example, a lot of frustrated ele mains here jumping around whenever someone mentions anything remotely related to ele. Same goes for mesmer, you just stang in a bee's nest.

> >

> > I am not saying condi mesmer is in a bad or good spot here. it seems good, but not OP, don't know yet if it will make it into the meta now tbh. Some duels will hardly change my mind or that of any other palyer, but if you are both happy about it, that's fine.

> >

> > Just don't take toxicity ingame or in the forum too serious and take some distance from those if you need it. Enjoy it however you can! :smile:

>

> I'm scared to continue... but...

> Most of my comments comes from morning when i was in hurry and bit sleepy. So i'm aware some mistypes i could eventually edit ...

>

> The mirage problem is (by my personal opinion) that some classes are range (so you dont need to care about mobility). Or some classes has masive aoe so you dont have to care about target. From warrior perspective.. well i don't want to repeat myself. I made myself clear. and i believe every spellbreaker main out there would confirm that but its maybe 5% player base ? i dont know..

>

> Anyway im used to deal with insane toxicity in spvp chat. where i usually ignore it. Still it's annoying. I just leave gw2 pvp. Its best i can do at this point. I really enjoyed pvp in past but after recent patches.. Well some things gets better some gets worse. Maybe next expansion i give it second try.

>

> On second thought. i don't care about rating or reward pips i can do same or even better in pve. And if i compare fun i had in raid with guild mates to this.. Only thing i ever wanted from pvp as reward was legendary wings. (I have to confess that) Which i have already. well so... Im done.

>

>

 

Greatsword on demolisher amulet will cleave out clones as if they're made of paper....because they are made of paper at 2.4k health.

 

One of the best ways to deal with a mesmer (any mesmer build) is to proc beneficial effects off illusions while cleaving them out. Now most run deceptive evasion and if running scepter the block produces a lot but the former on it's own won't make it overbearing.

 

Remember full counter refreshes your burst skill which can one hit clones so you can arcing slice, FC, arcing slice again which gives you a lot of health at the same time whether strength or defence.

 

After that it's a case of LoS when they go ranged and kiting when you don't have defences, it's a lot easier to fight when there's objects around, in a perfectly flat area it's much harder.

 

Sauce: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Illusion

[Megametzler.5729]

> @"Luna.6203" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > > > > okay lets move somewhere what about friday or saturday 20:00 CET... example...

> > > > Friday, sooner it happen - better.

> > > > > Also if you looking for proper duel you have to fight my warrior. otherwise you are going to duel lvl 1 lobby char. Its ok for tests its will be far from experienced mirage

> > > > Your level on char doesnt matter as it gets stats and everything from amulet/armor by default.

> > > > Mostly who you fight are rolled mirage because it was noobfriendly dodge1 spamming . And those who you fight are no different. They lose even to my core mesmer without inspiration (cant say plat badge is worth anything nowdays tho)

> > > > I thought you will spank my warrior with mirage because its even after nerfs strong as before... As I thought you could understand me better once you play it (especially recent nerfs)

> > > > > If you want duel than it has to be friendly tests. not you suck im going to show you noob. For that i can log warrior where i have 1y practice.

> > > > Sure we can duel with warriors but...Who was calling me noob then...or its your Engrish ?

> > >

> > > Oh kitten.. really ? "Engrish" ? before you start criticise my english please check yours .. you are not better.. i said i'm ready for hate but i was wrong this is disgusting. gw2 pvp chat/forum etc.. i'm sick of it. What the hell i put myself into. This is not worth it. I can't even read it anymore. It's so depressing. At this point i'll duel you only because i made promise. Then i'm done.

> > >

> > > (...)

> >

> > Yes, the forum is often quite negative and many people prefer (more or less personal) attacks over arguments. Also, the opinion of the replys not often represents the opinion of the broad mass - there are, for example, a lot of frustrated ele mains here jumping around whenever someone mentions anything remotely related to ele. Same goes for mesmer, you just stang in a bee's nest.

> >

> > I am not saying condi mesmer is in a bad or good spot here. it seems good, but not OP, don't know yet if it will make it into the meta now tbh. Some duels will hardly change my mind or that of any other palyer, but if you are both happy about it, that's fine.

> >

> > Just don't take toxicity ingame or in the forum too serious and take some distance from those if you need it. Enjoy it however you can! :smile:

>

> I'm scared to continue... but...

> Most of my comments comes from morning when i was in hurry and bit sleepy. So i'm aware some mistypes i could eventually edit ...

>

> The mirage problem is (by my personal opinion) that some classes are range (so you dont need to care about mobility). Or some classes has masive aoe so you dont have to care about target. From warrior perspective.. well i don't want to repeat myself. I made myself clear. and i believe every spellbreaker main out there would confirm that but its maybe 5% player base ? i dont know..

>

> Anyway im used to deal with insane toxicity in spvp chat. where i usually ignore it. Still it's annoying. I just leave gw2 pvp. Its best i can do at this point. I really enjoyed pvp in past but after recent patches.. Well some things gets better some gets worse. Maybe next expansion i give it second try.

>

> On second thought. i don't care about rating or reward pips i can do same or even better in pve. And if i compare fun i had in raid with guild mates to this.. Only thing i ever wanted from pvp as reward was legendary wings. (I have to confess that) Which i have already. well so... Im done.

>

>

 

Then switch to PVE for a while. That's the good thing: You can always have a look back into PVP without need to gear or level up first. :+1:

 

I just hope the toxic minority - I might be naive thinking it is though - didn't take the fun away from you. Even though I get mad in some games too, most people react really really nice afterwards and you can have nice chats.

 

If it was condi mirage... well, there are always ways to adapt. Play scrapper and get immune to condis! :lol:

 

Anyway, hope to see you in some matches - or just have fun in raids!^^

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

@"Luna.6203"

I think the problem with this thread is the title. It makes a very broad statement that "MESMERS ARE STILL OP!" when the class has just undergone another round of straight nerfs, after receiving nerfs in every balance update for the past year. Not saying this was a surprise, as there were (and arguably still are) some issues.

 

After the latest balance update, people are still feeling out the changes. I personally am not seeing nearly as many mesmers in matches. I still think it's a strong class, but hardly "OP". To me, OP means a class over performs so much it is favored in most if not all match ups, regardless of skill. I don't think that can be said about mesmer today.

 

I'm completely open to someone making the argument that something is OP if they back it up with facts and reasons why. But this thread is about why one class--your warrior--has difficulty with mesmer. That is not the definition of OP. If it were, almost every class could be called "OP" just because it is strong against another class.

 

Perhaps the title of this thread should have been something like: "Even After the Balance Update, Warrior Still Struggles with Mesmer". I believe that is really what you're saying, and that is something some might agree with. But to say "mesmer is still OP!" is inevitably going to draw criticism.

 

Most of the community is kind, sincere, helpful, and wants to see the game, including PvP balance, be the best it can be. Try not to be discouraged by the exceptions and just do what you enjoy.

[BlackTruth.6813]

Mesmer sadly needs to be UP to be "balanced"

 

Everytime Mesmer was "viable" according to Mesmer mains, people start hating GW2 and on one hand ESL dropped it and never took it back (chrono bunker)

 

This game was at it's prime when Mesmer was apparently "UP" during pre-HoT 2015, that is the sad reality.

 

Right now though I think it's pretty close to being okay. All classes should be okay vs.. Mesmers now even though they will still be realistically too obnoxious for a Warrior to fight assuming that the Mesmer isn't entitled and actually understands how instant cast and evade spam works. (z-axis teleport, spamming evades while attaacking not allowing an non-instant cast class to counterpressure if played right, instant cast "hard" shatters) The fundamental playstyle of Mesmer should still be viable really because it's an obnoxiously designed fraudulent class.

[Xstein.2187]

> @"Luna.6203" said:

> > @"Megametzler.5729" said:

> > > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > > > @"Odik.4587" said:

> > > > > @"Luna.6203" said:

> > > > > okay lets move somewhere what about friday or saturday 20:00 CET... example...

> > > > Friday, sooner it happen - better.

> > > > > Also if you looking for proper duel you have to fight my warrior. otherwise you are going to duel lvl 1 lobby char. Its ok for tests its will be far from experienced mirage

> > > > Your level on char doesnt matter as it gets stats and everything from amulet/armor by default.

> > > > Mostly who you fight are rolled mirage because it was noobfriendly dodge1 spamming . And those who you fight are no different. They lose even to my core mesmer without inspiration (cant say plat badge is worth anything nowdays tho)

> > > > I thought you will spank my warrior with mirage because its even after nerfs strong as before... As I thought you could understand me better once you play it (especially recent nerfs)

> > > > > If you want duel than it has to be friendly tests. not you suck im going to show you noob. For that i can log warrior where i have 1y practice.

> > > > Sure we can duel with warriors but...Who was calling me noob then...or its your Engrish ?

> > >

> > > Oh kitten.. really ? "Engrish" ? before you start criticise my english please check yours .. you are not better.. i said i'm ready for hate but i was wrong this is disgusting. gw2 pvp chat/forum etc.. i'm sick of it. What the hell i put myself into. This is not worth it. I can't even read it anymore. It's so depressing. At this point i'll duel you only because i made promise. Then i'm done.

> > >

> > > (...)

> >

> > Yes, the forum is often quite negative and many people prefer (more or less personal) attacks over arguments. Also, the opinion of the replys not often represents the opinion of the broad mass - there are, for example, a lot of frustrated ele mains here jumping around whenever someone mentions anything remotely related to ele. Same goes for mesmer, you just stang in a bee's nest.

> >

> > I am not saying condi mesmer is in a bad or good spot here. it seems good, but not OP, don't know yet if it will make it into the meta now tbh. Some duels will hardly change my mind or that of any other palyer, but if you are both happy about it, that's fine.

> >

> > Just don't take toxicity ingame or in the forum too serious and take some distance from those if you need it. Enjoy it however you can! :smile:

>

> I'm scared to continue... but...

> Most of my comments comes from morning when i was in hurry and bit sleepy. So i'm aware some mistypes i could eventually edit ...

>

> The mirage problem is (by my personal opinion) that some classes are range (so you dont need to care about mobility). Or some classes has masive aoe so you dont have to care about target. From warrior perspective.. well i don't want to repeat myself. I made myself clear. and i believe every spellbreaker main out there would confirm that but its maybe 5% player base ? i dont know..

>

> Anyway im used to deal with insane toxicity in spvp chat. where i usually ignore it. Still it's annoying. I just leave gw2 pvp. Its best i can do at this point. I really enjoyed pvp in past but after recent patches.. Well some things gets better some gets worse. Maybe next expansion i give it second try.

>

> On second thought. i don't care about rating or reward pips i can do same or even better in pve. And if i compare fun i had in raid with guild mates to this.. Only thing i ever wanted from pvp as reward was legendary wings. (I have to confess that) Which i have already. well so... Im done.

>

>

 

So thins kinda goes with any class that someone complains about to receive a nerf. For the majority of players (not top 25 or so) the people you are complaining about in your matches have roughly the same win rates that you do. Are those people easily defeating you in duels? Its probably because while that class counters you, the class you are complaining about has its counters or negative faults as well. For example, a class that is better at group fights and point control may push their win rate ahead even if that class isn't the best at dueling. However, a class who is more of a specialized dueler has to be a good dueler or better dueler than the classes or builds that are better at other aspects of conquest, like bunkering or group fights.

 

What this means is that the person who has X win rate and plays a build that is better in group fights and point control should not necessarily expect to win a 1v1 against a build that is specialized in dueling and less good at group fights or point control because if you could easily defeat that person in a 1v1, they would not be playing against you in the first place since they would naturally be in a different league category or position. This works across the board with every spec and play style. If you are not one of the best PvP players in the game, you are playing against another person for a very specific reason, regardless of weather or not you win a duel against them. You both have about the same win rates relative the the people you are playing against. Now, this is a little bit of a simplification since the game tries to balance out your win rate based on the people you are fighting against, moving you up and down. However, if the player didn't move up and down the gold/platinum categories, the different players would have much different win rates. So, when I say win rate, I mean win rate relative to a certain position in the league bracket relative to what different players win rates would be if they were moved up or down the ladder to your position.

 

Now, sure there can be OP builds and classes. However, this is the reason I believe its best to balance from a top down approach looking at what tournaments and the leaderboards look like instead of just the majority of players complaining.

[Vancho.8750]

Before the nerfs on the damage of Full counter Warrior was countering mirage, but after the the nerfs full counter can't do anything and everyone ignores it, so the spell breaker lost part of the identity that was to counter pressure strong spam on low cooldown abilities. Before mirage would be careful with when it would drop the clones, now they do pve golem rotations on people. Another issue is that the main mechanic of mesmerer with the clones seems to be busted on mirage, if you fight a crono you will notice that they have down time.This is not only problem with mirage but for soulbeast, scrapper, holo , these days they don't have time where their power drops off , become weak and have an opening where they have to chose to try to run away or risk dying.

[AliamRationem.5172]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> The problem with most condi mirage nerfs is that it affected power the most and power was already lackluster.

 

I don't think 25% reduction in evade and super speed uptime from Mirage cloak, 33% reduction in axe ambush torment application, 75% increase to the illusionary ambush cooldown, and nerfs to confusion stacks and duration from Cry of Pain and Ineptitude impacted power more than condi. Since the majority of condi mirage pressure comes from confusion stacking and axe torment application, the impact on their ability to apply that overwhelming pressure while simultaneously evading damage has been significantly reduced.

 

I think that's why we've seen a drastic reduction in "OMG NERF IT NOW BEFORE IT DESTROYS THE GAME!" threads since the patch. For skilled players these nerfs are perfectly manageable. They'll certainly have an impact, but I think where it hurts most is for those less-skilled mirage players who "spam 1 and dodge" to win. With the reduced pressure and increased vulnerability, it's no longer so easy to simply overwhelm opponents with condi application while spamming dodge. Such players now run the very real risk of overextending and losing the fight when they do this. Which is good, because that's how every other class plays.