Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > What I understand Teratus is saying is that Aurene is not an Elder Dragon yet, thus her "branding" does not corrupt. The reason why the branded minions are corrupted is due to the amount of magic that was infused into their system. It's the difference between someone using steroids for medical purposes with regulated amount of dosage and someone who are overdosed with steroids where you can see some physiological deformation. A small amount of infused magic is enough to enhance, but not enough to deform, which what I've said using the enchanted sword example. He outright stated that what Aurene did was what Elder Dragons did: _"Aurine infused Caithe with her own magic.. enhancing her in ways we don't fully understand yet.. and the same could be said for the Elder Dragons who infuse their minions with new powers and abilities.. enhancing them." He just used different term than "corruption", but he used that term for both Aurene and Elder Dragons. If he used your term of "enchantment", then it'd be "Elder Dragons who enchant their minions with new powers and abilities". You're continuously saying that what Aurene did was not the same as what Elder Dragons do. But both I and Teratus have been saying otherwise; that it is the same, the only difference is, as Teratus put it: _"The only difference between the two being that the Elder Dragons use this power to dominate and enslave their victims against their will.. where as Aurine enhanced Caithe without striping her of her free will and only with Caithes consent."_ To use your latest example, Caithe is physically "deformed". She's just not mentally dominated. That enchanted sword (Caithe) will never return to how she was before the "enchantment", for that infusion of power is permanent here. She will always be a crystalline individual now, regardless of Aurene's ultimate fate. > @"Tyson.5160" said: > Yeah, I wanted to use the word converting here, rather then corruption, whether it’s a better term or not, I’m not sure. > > This protection we keep hearing about, perhaps why it’s not 100% effective against Mordremoth is perhaps because the Pale Tree has been injured and is semi conscious at this point. > > We also have Aerin, who is apparently soundless now and is less connected to the Dream, now being converted by Mordremoth, which if the above theory was correct, should not have been converted or at the very least, would have been harder to convert. The Pale Tree advises that these Sylvari aren’t protected as well and leaves them vulnerable. > > I feel like a lot of this Dream, protection, the call and all that gets really really messy when you try to sort through it all. Being Soundless only dampens the connection to the Dream, it doesn't cut it off nor does it prevent the Pale Tree or Wyld Hunts from contacting the sylvari: > Scott McGough: Most Soundless sylvari perform a specific kind of meditation or mental exercise in order to shut themselves off from the Dream, a technique developed and disseminated by one of the firstborn. They need to perform this exercise often and repeatedly to minimize the empathic bond they share with other awakened sylvari. This minimization can be virtually complete, but it can never be literally complete—in other words, a Soundless sylvari cannot ever fully disconnect from the Dream, but through sustained and repeated meditation, they can minimize the common day-to-day empathic connection they feel with other sylvari. _If the Pale Tree needed to speak to a Soundless sylvari, she could, but it would take more effort on her part than it would to speak to a regular sylvari._ https://www.guildwars2roleplayers.com/forum/page/1/m/2737230/viewthread/9902543-2rps-lore-interview-arenanet But as you say, Soundless are said to render themselves vulnerable, so it may even be that Mordremoth didn't use the same methods on Aerin or Scarlet (who was similarly disconnected from the Dream) as he did on the Pact sylvari. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > What I understand Teratus is saying is that Aurene is not an Elder Dragon yet, thus her "branding" does not corrupt. The reason why the branded minions are corrupted is due to the amount of magic that was infused into their system. It's the difference between someone using steroids for medical purposes with regulated amount of dosage and someone who are overdosed with steroids where you can see some physiological deformation. A small amount of infused magic is enough to enhance, but not enough to deform, which what I've said using the enchanted sword example. > > He outright stated that what Aurene did was what Elder Dragons did: > > _"Aurine infused Caithe with her own magic.. enhancing her in ways we don't fully understand yet.. and the same could be said for the Elder Dragons who infuse their minions with new powers and abilities.. enhancing them." > > He just used different term than "corruption", but he used that term for both Aurene and Elder Dragons. If he used your term of "enchantment", then it'd be "Elder Dragons who enchant their minions with new powers and abilities". > > You're continuously saying that what Aurene did was not the same as what Elder Dragons do. But both I and Teratus have been saying otherwise; that it is the same, the only difference is, as Teratus put it: > > _"The only difference between the two being that the Elder Dragons use this power to dominate and enslave their victims against their will.. where as Aurine enhanced Caithe without striping her of her free will and only with Caithes consent."_ > > To use your latest example, Caithe is physically "deformed". She's just not mentally dominated. That enchanted sword (Caithe) will never return to how she was before the "enchantment", for that infusion of power is permanent here. She will always be a crystalline individual now, regardless of Aurene's ultimate fate. > > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > Yeah, I wanted to use the word converting here, rather then corruption, whether it’s a better term or not, I’m not sure. > > > > This protection we keep hearing about, perhaps why it’s not 100% effective against Mordremoth is perhaps because the Pale Tree has been injured and is semi conscious at this point. > > > > We also have Aerin, who is apparently soundless now and is less connected to the Dream, now being converted by Mordremoth, which if the above theory was correct, should not have been converted or at the very least, would have been harder to convert. The Pale Tree advises that these Sylvari aren’t protected as well and leaves them vulnerable. > > > > I feel like a lot of this Dream, protection, the call and all that gets really really messy when you try to sort through it all. > > Being Soundless only dampens the connection to the Dream, it doesn't cut it off nor does it prevent the Pale Tree or Wyld Hunts from contacting the sylvari: > > > Scott McGough: Most Soundless sylvari perform a specific kind of meditation or mental exercise in order to shut themselves off from the Dream, a technique developed and disseminated by one of the firstborn. They need to perform this exercise often and repeatedly to minimize the empathic bond they share with other awakened sylvari. This minimization can be virtually complete, but it can never be literally complete—in other words, a Soundless sylvari cannot ever fully disconnect from the Dream, but through sustained and repeated meditation, they can minimize the common day-to-day empathic connection they feel with other sylvari. _If the Pale Tree needed to speak to a Soundless sylvari, she could, but it would take more effort on her part than it would to speak to a regular sylvari._ > > https://www.guildwars2roleplayers.com/forum/page/1/m/2737230/viewthread/9902543-2rps-lore-interview-arenanet > > But as you say, Soundless are said to render themselves vulnerable, so it may even be that Mordremoth didn't use the same methods on Aerin or Scarlet (who was similarly disconnected from the Dream) as he did on the Pact sylvari. I mean even that note from Aerin talking about killing the leader and the rest fall in line. Seems to describe that if the Pale Tree is killed that the Sylvari just become Mordremoth’s. Perhaps if the Pale Tree was 100% and not injured, she could potentially maintain that protection against Mordremoth from within the dream, but with the Pale Tree being in such a weakened state he has almost free reign. Edit: I guess my next question would be that if the goal wasn’t to kill the Pale Tree, why send the shadow of the dragon, unless there was some sort of strategic gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > What I understand Teratus is saying is that Aurene is not an Elder Dragon yet, thus her "branding" does not corrupt. The reason why the branded minions are corrupted is due to the amount of magic that was infused into their system. It's the difference between someone using steroids for medical purposes with regulated amount of dosage and someone who are overdosed with steroids where you can see some physiological deformation. A small amount of infused magic is enough to enhance, but not enough to deform, which what I've said using the enchanted sword example. > > He outright stated that what Aurene did was what Elder Dragons did: > > _"Aurine infused Caithe with her own magic.. enhancing her in ways we don't fully understand yet.. and the same could be said for the Elder Dragons who infuse their minions with new powers and abilities.. enhancing them." > There is a subtle difference between; "Aurine infused Caithe with her own magic.. enhancing her **in ways we don't fully understand yet**.." and "the Elder Dragons who infuse their minions with new powers and abilities.. enhancing them." The stark difference is the amount of magic infused. Whether you see the difference or not. I wo't discuss this further. > He just used different term than "corruption", but he used that term for both Aurene and Elder Dragons. If he used your term of "enchantment", then it'd be "Elder Dragons who enchant their minions with new powers and abilities". > You're conveniently ignoring the part where he said, "I agree that it's only really defined as corruption because there has never been a positive way to view the process." Again, i'm not going to continue to discuss this. I believe it's has been very clear. > You're continuously saying that what Aurene did was not the same as what Elder Dragons do. But both I and Teratus have been saying otherwise; that it is the same, the only difference is, as Teratus put it: > > _"The only difference between the two being that the Elder Dragons use this power to dominate and enslave their victims against their will.. where as Aurine enhanced Caithe without striping her of her free will and only with Caithes consent."_ > > To use your latest example, Caithe is physically "deformed". She's just not mentally dominated. That enchanted sword (Caithe) will never return to how she was before the "enchantment", for that infusion of power is permanent here. She will always be a crystalline individual now, regardless of Aurene's ultimate fate. > Selective reading much? Here's what he said; > @"Teratus.2859" said: > If we managed to make a super serum that greatly enhanced our physical abilities **at the cost of our appearance** and could be abused to control our minds.. would **it be seen as mutilation/corruption** or would it be seen as an enhancement? > **That would depend entirely on how it was used.** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > What I understand Teratus is saying is that Aurene is not an Elder Dragon yet, thus her "branding" does not corrupt. The reason why the branded minions are corrupted is due to the amount of magic that was infused into their system. It's the difference between someone using steroids for medical purposes with regulated amount of dosage and someone who are overdosed with steroids where you can see some physiological deformation. A small amount of infused magic is enough to enhance, but not enough to deform, which what I've said using the enchanted sword example. > > > > He outright stated that what Aurene did was what Elder Dragons did: > > > > _"Aurine infused Caithe with her own magic.. enhancing her in ways we don't fully understand yet.. and the same could be said for the Elder Dragons who infuse their minions with new powers and abilities.. enhancing them." > > > > There is a subtle difference between; > "Aurine infused Caithe with her own magic.. enhancing her **in ways we don't fully understand yet**.." and > "the Elder Dragons who infuse their minions with new powers and abilities.. enhancing them." > > The stark difference is the amount of magic infused. Whether you see the difference or not. I wo't discuss this further. > > > He just used different term than "corruption", but he used that term for both Aurene and Elder Dragons. If he used your term of "enchantment", then it'd be "Elder Dragons who enchant their minions with new powers and abilities". > > > > You're conveniently ignoring the part where he said, "I agree that it's only really defined as corruption because there has never been a positive way to view the process." > > Again, i'm not going to continue to discuss this. I believe it's has been very clear. > > > You're continuously saying that what Aurene did was not the same as what Elder Dragons do. But both I and Teratus have been saying otherwise; that it is the same, the only difference is, as Teratus put it: > > > > _"The only difference between the two being that the Elder Dragons use this power to dominate and enslave their victims against their will.. where as Aurine enhanced Caithe without striping her of her free will and only with Caithes consent."_ > > > > To use your latest example, Caithe is physically "deformed". She's just not mentally dominated. That enchanted sword (Caithe) will never return to how she was before the "enchantment", for that infusion of power is permanent here. She will always be a crystalline individual now, regardless of Aurene's ultimate fate. > > > > Selective reading much? Here's what he said; > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > If we managed to make a super serum that greatly enhanced our physical abilities **at the cost of our appearance** and could be abused to control our minds.. would **it be seen as mutilation/corruption** or would it be seen as an enhancement? > > **That would depend entirely on how it was used.** I suspect we might get an answer to many of these with Caithe’s story, I mean look at all the chunks of meaty lore in Rytlock’s story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 > @"Tyson.5160" said: > I mean even that note from Aerin talking about killing the leader and the rest fall in line. Seems to describe that if the Pale Tree is killed that the Sylvari just become Mordremoth’s. Perhaps if the Pale Tree was 100% and not injured, she could potentially maintain that protection against Mordremoth from within the dream, but with the Pale Tree being in such a weakened state he has almost free reign. > > Edit: I guess my next question would be that if the goal wasn’t to kill the Pale Tree, why send the shadow of the dragon, unless there was some sort of strategic gain. I've always figured that the goal of injuring/killing the Pale Tree was because 1) she's a traitorous dragon champion (ala why Kralk killed Glint); 2) she probably cannot be corrupted/influenced (same likely is true for Glint, otherwise why not just recorrupt her?); and most importantly, 3) doing so puts all sylvari in a distraught state, even the Nightmare Court who still hold connection to the Pale Tree (they wanted to turn her, not kill her), which makes them easier to influence. > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > There is a subtle difference between; > "Aurine infused Caithe with her own magic.. enhancing her **in ways we don't fully understand yet**.." and > "the Elder Dragons who infuse their minions with new powers and abilities.. enhancing them." > > The stark difference is the amount of magic infused. Whether you see the difference or not. I wo't discuss this further. No, there really isn't, because as Teratus said at the beginning of his post: _"We simply do not understand what Aurine did to caithe.. nor do we fully understand dragon corruption in general."_ So those two lines you quoted? That "in ways we don't fully understand yet" can be applied to both lines, not just the first. [We also know](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Magic_Sucks) that the amount of magic "infused" in a dragon minion varies for every minion. Grunts get less magic, while champions get more. So your last line about the difference being "the amount of magic infused" is also incorrect, since the magic infused *always varies.* > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > You're conveniently ignoring the part where he said, "I agree that it's only really defined as corruption because there has never been a positive way to view the process." > > Again, i'm not going to continue to discuss this. I believe it's has been very clear. No, I'm not missing that. Because I said that in my very first response to the topic. Like you said before, calling a rock a cookie doesn't make it a cookie. Calling "infusing magic" to be corruption or enchantment doesn't change the fact that it's the same damn thing. > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > Selective reading much? Here's what he said; > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > If we managed to make a super serum that greatly enhanced our physical abilities **at the cost of our appearance** and could be abused to control our minds.. would **it be seen as mutilation/corruption** or would it be seen as an enhancement? > > **That would depend entirely on how it was used.** The irony is that you're the one having selective reading. Teratus is basically saying that the terminology used for a singular action can change the view point, despite the fact that it is the very same thing. What's done to the individual is the same, the only difference is "how it was used" - for malice or out of benevolence. It's the same damn thing as the two Pact soldiers discussing being branded by Aurene or by Kralkatorrik in The Forged, where one comments indirectly that they'd rather be branded by Aurene than by Kralkatorrik. > @"Tyson.5160" said: > I suspect we might get an answer to many of these with Caithe’s story, I mean look at all the chunks of meaty lore in Rytlock’s story. If we ever get it. Both the Requiem and the god tweets stopped during the layoff period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > It should also be noted that sylvari are never stated to be corrupted by Mordremoth either - at least not in those promotions for HoT - instead it is always called "Mordremoth's influence". Influence rather than corruption is a rather interesting change in terminology, and no doubt ties into the fact that as we see during Buried Insight, even while Mordremoth lived they merely needed to be separated from his ability to telepathically communicate via the Dream with the Mordrem Guard for them to become capable of returning to their old selves (so long as no fool does what Canach did and push them back to Mordremoth's given mentality). It is technically correct to say Mordremoth never corrupted them (and probably can't due to redundancy). Whatever plant corruption is involved in the Sylvari growing process is done by the Pale Tree. The finished product bears his influence but not his touch. I would similarly think Kralkatorrik can't brand Caithe's crystalline parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Tyson.5160" said: > > I suspect we might get an answer to many of these with Caithe’s story, I mean look at all the chunks of meaty lore in Rytlock’s story. > > If we ever get it. Both the Requiem and the god tweets stopped during the layoff period. Yeah, I hope you are incorrect. Leaving those stories incomplete would be... disappointing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > It should also be noted that sylvari are never stated to be corrupted by Mordremoth either - at least not in those promotions for HoT - instead it is always called "Mordremoth's influence". Influence rather than corruption is a rather interesting change in terminology, and no doubt ties into the fact that as we see during Buried Insight, even while Mordremoth lived they merely needed to be separated from his ability to telepathically communicate via the Dream with the Mordrem Guard for them to become capable of returning to their old selves (so long as no fool does what Canach did and push them back to Mordremoth's given mentality). > > It is technically correct to say Mordremoth never corrupted them (and probably can't due to redundancy). Whatever plant corruption is involved in the Sylvari growing process is done by the Pale Tree. The finished product bears his influence but not his touch. > > I would similarly think Kralkatorrik can't brand Caithe's crystalline parts. Counter argument: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Corrupted_Facet That is a crystalline creature/branded created by Glint, in the same manner of Aurene branding Caithe or the Pale Tree "making" sylvari. Yet it has been (re)corrupted by Kralkatorrik. In [Crystalline Memories](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystalline_Memories), Glint's lair has similarly suffered being re-corrupted by Kralkatorrik, and based on the dialogue, the facet fought there was similarly influenced by Kralkatorrik. Based on these three things, then by all reasoning, Caithe should be vulnerable to Kralkatorrik's corruption, and sylvari vulnerable to Mordremoth's corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted March 23, 2019 Author Share Posted March 23, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Daniel Handler.4816" said: > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > It should also be noted that sylvari are never stated to be corrupted by Mordremoth either - at least not in those promotions for HoT - instead it is always called "Mordremoth's influence". Influence rather than corruption is a rather interesting change in terminology, and no doubt ties into the fact that as we see during Buried Insight, even while Mordremoth lived they merely needed to be separated from his ability to telepathically communicate via the Dream with the Mordrem Guard for them to become capable of returning to their old selves (so long as no fool does what Canach did and push them back to Mordremoth's given mentality). > > > > It is technically correct to say Mordremoth never corrupted them (and probably can't due to redundancy). Whatever plant corruption is involved in the Sylvari growing process is done by the Pale Tree. The finished product bears his influence but not his touch. > > > > I would similarly think Kralkatorrik can't brand Caithe's crystalline parts. > > Counter argument: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Legendary_Corrupted_Facet > > That is a crystalline creature/branded created by Glint, in the same manner of Aurene branding Caithe or the Pale Tree "making" sylvari. Yet it has been (re)corrupted by Kralkatorrik. In [Crystalline Memories](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Crystalline_Memories), Glint's lair has similarly suffered being re-corrupted by Kralkatorrik, and based on the dialogue, the facet fought there was similarly influenced by Kralkatorrik. > > Based on these three things, then by all reasoning, Caithe should be vulnerable to Kralkatorrik's corruption, and sylvari vulnerable to Mordremoth's corruption. That's interesting. So they can override what is basically their own corruption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > Selective reading much? Here's what he said; > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > If we managed to make a super serum that greatly enhanced our physical abilities **at the cost of our appearance** and could be abused to control our minds.. would **it be seen as mutilation/corruption** or would it be seen as an enhancement? > > > **That would depend entirely on how it was used.** > > The irony is that you're the one having selective reading. Teratus is basically saying that the terminology used for a singular action can change the view point, despite the fact that it is the very same thing. What's done to the individual is the same, the only difference is "how it was used" - for malice or out of benevolence. > If the serum changed your appearance and used to control your mind, that is a corruption not an enhancement. My response to him was very clear, "In GW2, many sons of Svanir are willing yet they are no different than those who are corrupted unwillingly." The sons of Svanir, although willing, still see it as a corruption, not an enhancement, they are willing to be corrupted. That is because it is a settled lore that Elder Dragons corrupts, they don't enhance. His use of a serum as an example is no different than someone using steroids. Too much, you get deformation/corruption, but regulated dosage will give temporary enhancement. You selectively read that portion with no regards to everything I've posted. > It's the same kitten thing as the two Pact soldiers discussing being branded by Aurene or by Kralkatorrik in The Forged, where one comments indirectly that they'd rather be branded by Aurene than by Kralkatorrik. > Yeah, I'm not trying to convince you whether it's the same or not. I'm simply stating that what I've observed Aurene did **IS NOT** the same fucking thing as what Kral did. Everyone who has eyes can see the fucking difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teratus.2859 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > Selective reading much? Here's what he said; > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > If we managed to make a super serum that greatly enhanced our physical abilities **at the cost of our appearance** and could be abused to control our minds.. would **it be seen as mutilation/corruption** or would it be seen as an enhancement? > > > > **That would depend entirely on how it was used.** > > > > The irony is that you're the one having selective reading. Teratus is basically saying that the terminology used for a singular action can change the view point, despite the fact that it is the very same thing. What's done to the individual is the same, the only difference is "how it was used" - for malice or out of benevolence. > > > > If the serum changed your appearance and used to control your mind, that is a corruption not an enhancement. My response to him was very clear, "In GW2, many sons of Svanir are willing yet they are no different than those who are corrupted unwillingly." > > The sons of Svanir, although willing, still see it as a corruption, not an enhancement, they are willing to be corrupted. That is because it is a settled lore that Elder Dragons corrupts, they don't enhance. > > His use of a serum as an example is no different than someone using steroids. Too much, you get deformation/corruption, but regulated dosage will give temporary enhancement. > > You selectively read that portion with no regards to everything I've posted. > > > It's the same kitten thing as the two Pact soldiers discussing being branded by Aurene or by Kralkatorrik in The Forged, where one comments indirectly that they'd rather be branded by Aurene than by Kralkatorrik. > > > > Yeah, I'm not trying to convince you whether it's the same or not. I'm simply stating that what I've observed Aurene did **IS NOT** the same kitten thing as what Kral did. Everyone who has eyes can see the kitten difference. What I ment with the Serum example was a definition of the process based on the perspective of those it was used on.. forced or chosen. To use your Sons of Svanir example.. while it's true that we regard the icebrood as corrupted and that Jormag does dominate and control them. Those who are corrupted by choice don't believe that the process is corruption.. I think there are even Svanir NPC's in the game who refer to Jormags corruption as being imbued with Dragon's power.. or blessings. The Sons don't see Jormag in the same way the rest of the races do rather they think of him as the ultimate totem spirit rather than a monster, which is why he's referred to as Dragon.. much in the same way as normal norn would speak of Bear, Wolf etc We see it as corruption.. but they see it as enhancement.. or some sort of divine blessing. The Sons are an interesting faction tbh because unlike other minions of Dragons they have more freedom and retain much of their individuality untill they're completely corrupted into icebrood. It makes me rather curious about dealing with Jormag as he could potentially be a lot smarter and cunning than the Dragons we've fought so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > Selective reading much? Here's what he said; > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > If we managed to make a super serum that greatly enhanced our physical abilities **at the cost of our appearance** and could be abused to control our minds.. would **it be seen as mutilation/corruption** or would it be seen as an enhancement? > > > > > **That would depend entirely on how it was used.** > > > > > > The irony is that you're the one having selective reading. Teratus is basically saying that the terminology used for a singular action can change the view point, despite the fact that it is the very same thing. What's done to the individual is the same, the only difference is "how it was used" - for malice or out of benevolence. > > > > > > > If the serum changed your appearance and used to control your mind, that is a corruption not an enhancement. My response to him was very clear, "In GW2, many sons of Svanir are willing yet they are no different than those who are corrupted unwillingly." > > > > The sons of Svanir, although willing, still see it as a corruption, not an enhancement, they are willing to be corrupted. That is because it is a settled lore that Elder Dragons corrupts, they don't enhance. > > > > His use of a serum as an example is no different than someone using steroids. Too much, you get deformation/corruption, but regulated dosage will give temporary enhancement. > > > > You selectively read that portion with no regards to everything I've posted. > > > > > It's the same kitten thing as the two Pact soldiers discussing being branded by Aurene or by Kralkatorrik in The Forged, where one comments indirectly that they'd rather be branded by Aurene than by Kralkatorrik. > > > > > > > Yeah, I'm not trying to convince you whether it's the same or not. I'm simply stating that what I've observed Aurene did **IS NOT** the same kitten thing as what Kral did. Everyone who has eyes can see the kitten difference. > > What I ment with the Serum example was a definition of the process based on the perspective of those it was used on.. forced or chosen. > That's like saying that getting a flesh eating bacterial infection on your arm is a good thing just because you are willing to receive it and you perceived it that it enhances your looks. > To use your Sons of Svanir example.. while it's true that we regard the icebrood as corrupted and that Jormag does dominate and control them. > Those who are corrupted by choice don't believe that the process is corruption.. I think there are even Svanir NPC's in the game who refer to Jormags corruption as being imbued with Dragon's power.. or blessings. > The Sons don't see Jormag in the same way the rest of the races do rather they think of him as the ultimate totem spirit rather than a monster, which is why he's referred to as Dragon.. much in the same way as normal norn would speak of Bear, Wolf etc > > We see it as corruption.. but they see it as enhancement.. or some sort of divine blessing. > As I have already mentioned, you're example only touched on the subject where the super serum causes deformation and was used to control mind. Thus whether the participant is willing or not, the very fact that its use causes deformation and used to control mind makes it a corruption. So it really comes down to the intent of the applicator. Now you also mentioned, "that would depend entirely on how it was **used**" which can only meant that it's either used to corrupt or used to enhanced. You didn't say that it would depend on how it is **perceived**. So if I misunderstand your point, then that's why. Enhancement is temporary effect while corruption is very permanent. Thus I used the example of regulated using and unregulated abusing of steroids. While regulated dosage will grant enhancement, abusing it will start to corrupt the body, mentally and physically. In the same way, Aurene has no intention to corrupt Caithe which means she didn't overdosed Caithe on the magic infusion. While Kral's intention is to corrupt, he delivers his magic unregulated to the point where the subjects are physically deformed and mentally unstable. Thus to say that what Aurene did is a corruption the same as Kral and it only differ on how they are perceived is rather dishonest. Simply because the difference can be observed and compared by anyone who had seen it. The Dev might be redefining the word "branded" and to me that's just lazy writing. Being branded has always mean being corrupted. The kind of branding that Elder Dragons does is like using a hot iron rather than temporary tattoos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted March 25, 2019 Author Share Posted March 25, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > Selective reading much? Here's what he said; > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > If we managed to make a super serum that greatly enhanced our physical abilities **at the cost of our appearance** and could be abused to control our minds.. would **it be seen as mutilation/corruption** or would it be seen as an enhancement? > > > > > > **That would depend entirely on how it was used.** > > > > > > > > The irony is that you're the one having selective reading. Teratus is basically saying that the terminology used for a singular action can change the view point, despite the fact that it is the very same thing. What's done to the individual is the same, the only difference is "how it was used" - for malice or out of benevolence. > > > > > > > > > > If the serum changed your appearance and used to control your mind, that is a corruption not an enhancement. My response to him was very clear, "In GW2, many sons of Svanir are willing yet they are no different than those who are corrupted unwillingly." > > > > > > The sons of Svanir, although willing, still see it as a corruption, not an enhancement, they are willing to be corrupted. That is because it is a settled lore that Elder Dragons corrupts, they don't enhance. > > > > > > His use of a serum as an example is no different than someone using steroids. Too much, you get deformation/corruption, but regulated dosage will give temporary enhancement. > > > > > > You selectively read that portion with no regards to everything I've posted. > > > > > > > It's the same kitten thing as the two Pact soldiers discussing being branded by Aurene or by Kralkatorrik in The Forged, where one comments indirectly that they'd rather be branded by Aurene than by Kralkatorrik. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I'm not trying to convince you whether it's the same or not. I'm simply stating that what I've observed Aurene did **IS NOT** the same kitten thing as what Kral did. Everyone who has eyes can see the kitten difference. > > > > What I ment with the Serum example was a definition of the process based on the perspective of those it was used on.. forced or chosen. > > > > That's like saying that getting a flesh eating bacterial infection on your arm is a good thing just because you are willing to receive it and you perceived it that it enhances your looks. > > > To use your Sons of Svanir example.. while it's true that we regard the icebrood as corrupted and that Jormag does dominate and control them. > > Those who are corrupted by choice don't believe that the process is corruption.. I think there are even Svanir NPC's in the game who refer to Jormags corruption as being imbued with Dragon's power.. or blessings. > > The Sons don't see Jormag in the same way the rest of the races do rather they think of him as the ultimate totem spirit rather than a monster, which is why he's referred to as Dragon.. much in the same way as normal norn would speak of Bear, Wolf etc > > > > We see it as corruption.. but they see it as enhancement.. or some sort of divine blessing. > > > > As I have already mentioned, you're example only touched on the subject where the super serum causes deformation and was used to control mind. Thus whether the participant is willing or not, the very fact that its use causes deformation and used to control mind makes it a corruption. So it really comes down to the intent of the applicator. > > Now you also mentioned, "that would depend entirely on how it was **used**" which can only meant that it's either used to corrupt or used to enhanced. You didn't say that it would depend on how it is **perceived**. So if I misunderstand your point, then that's why. > > Enhancement is temporary effect while corruption is very permanent. Thus I used the example of regulated using and unregulated abusing of steroids. While regulated dosage will grant enhancement, abusing it will start to corrupt the body, mentally and physically. > > In the same way, Aurene has no intention to corrupt Caithe which means she didn't overdosed Caithe on the magic infusion. While Kral's intention is to corrupt, he delivers his magic unregulated to the point where the subjects are physically deformed and mentally unstable. > > Thus to say that what Aurene did is a corruption the same as Kral and it only differ on how they are perceived is rather dishonest. Simply because the difference can be observed and compared by anyone who had seen it. The Dev might be redefining the word "branded" and to me that's just lazy writing. Being branded has always mean being corrupted. The kind of branding that Elder Dragons does is like using a hot iron rather than temporary tattoos. There is no such thing as a temporary dose of corruptive energy. Entities becomes either minions or cleansed corruption. From crystalline memories > Glint: I remember only fragments from the days before the Forgotten performed their ritual on me. > Glint: Though I still feel a connection to Kralkatorrik, it no longer compels my actions. My will is my own. This ritual allowed Glint and the good Trees to make corruption that was similarly free but connected. Now Aurene has done to Caithe exactly what her mother did for her. The reason Caithe is considered branded is because cleansed corruption is just as physically deformed and permanent as the regular kind. Caithe is able to remove external pieces without harm as Sylvari do with clothing, but the large crystal in her chest has permanently linked her to Aurene. 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Teratus.2859 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > Selective reading much? Here's what he said; > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > If we managed to make a super serum that greatly enhanced our physical abilities **at the cost of our appearance** and could be abused to control our minds.. would **it be seen as mutilation/corruption** or would it be seen as an enhancement? > > > > > > **That would depend entirely on how it was used.** > > > > > > > > The irony is that you're the one having selective reading. Teratus is basically saying that the terminology used for a singular action can change the view point, despite the fact that it is the very same thing. What's done to the individual is the same, the only difference is "how it was used" - for malice or out of benevolence. > > > > > > > > > > If the serum changed your appearance and used to control your mind, that is a corruption not an enhancement. My response to him was very clear, "In GW2, many sons of Svanir are willing yet they are no different than those who are corrupted unwillingly." > > > > > > The sons of Svanir, although willing, still see it as a corruption, not an enhancement, they are willing to be corrupted. That is because it is a settled lore that Elder Dragons corrupts, they don't enhance. > > > > > > His use of a serum as an example is no different than someone using steroids. Too much, you get deformation/corruption, but regulated dosage will give temporary enhancement. > > > > > > You selectively read that portion with no regards to everything I've posted. > > > > > > > It's the same kitten thing as the two Pact soldiers discussing being branded by Aurene or by Kralkatorrik in The Forged, where one comments indirectly that they'd rather be branded by Aurene than by Kralkatorrik. > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I'm not trying to convince you whether it's the same or not. I'm simply stating that what I've observed Aurene did **IS NOT** the same kitten thing as what Kral did. Everyone who has eyes can see the kitten difference. > > > > What I ment with the Serum example was a definition of the process based on the perspective of those it was used on.. forced or chosen. > > > > That's like saying that getting a flesh eating bacterial infection on your arm is a good thing just because you are willing to receive it and you perceived it that it enhances your looks. Extreme example yes.. but if someone were to be convinced that they are enhancing their appearance by doing so then it would be very difficult to convince them otherwise even if the majority of people considered it a negative thing. We can see many real world examples of that in such as tattoos or piercings. Some people choose to have them on their face or various parts of the body which to them is a cosmetic improvement but to others could be deemed the complete opposite based on their own opinions/views. > > To use your Sons of Svanir example.. while it's true that we regard the icebrood as corrupted and that Jormag does dominate and control them. > > Those who are corrupted by choice don't believe that the process is corruption.. I think there are even Svanir NPC's in the game who refer to Jormags corruption as being imbued with Dragon's power.. or blessings. > > The Sons don't see Jormag in the same way the rest of the races do rather they think of him as the ultimate totem spirit rather than a monster, which is why he's referred to as Dragon.. much in the same way as normal norn would speak of Bear, Wolf etc > > > > We see it as corruption.. but they see it as enhancement.. or some sort of divine blessing. > > > > As I have already mentioned, you're example only touched on the subject where the super serum causes deformation and was used to control mind. Thus whether the participant is willing or not, the very fact that its use causes deformation and used to control mind makes it a corruption. So it really comes down to the intent of the applicator. > > Now you also mentioned, "that would depend entirely on how it was **used**" which can only meant that it's either used to corrupt or used to enhanced. You didn't say that it would depend on how it is **perceived**. So if I misunderstand your point, then that's why. > If you misunderstood then I probably hold blame as well as I likely messed up my explination. I'm not a very articulate person and have a fair bit of difficulty explaining my points and making them make sense to others >.< life long problem i'm afraid, but I don't mean to cause arguments. I guess in a basic way of saying it.. i'm saying the magic and process of corruption is the same for both the branded and Caithe.. The differences are firstly the intent of the dragons, Kralkatorrik aiming to dominate his minions ) where as Aurine seeks to connect with hers without dominating them. Then secondly how the process is percieved by others.. Bad = corruption, Good = connection/enhancement.. the process however is more or less the same, the dragon infuses it's minion with power, altering their physical appearance, granting them new abilities and forging a connection between them which can be used positively or negatively depending on the intent of the Dragon. > Enhancement is temporary effect while corruption is very permanent. Thus I used the example of regulated using and unregulated abusing of steroids. While regulated dosage will grant enhancement, abusing it will start to corrupt the body, mentally and physically. Enhancements can be permanent or temporary depending on what the enhancement is. Dragon corruption for example is a great deal different from say.. elementalist aura's or boons.. or even Necromancers shroud. Some Masteries too could be considered a form of enhancement that is permanent.. Crystal champion being the obvious example as those masteries are based around abilities bestowed to you by Aurine which allow you to do all sorts of things like absorb volatile magic. > In the same way, Aurene has no intention to corrupt Caithe which means she didn't overdosed Caithe on the magic infusion. While Kral's intention is to corrupt, he delivers his magic unregulated to the point where the subjects are physically deformed and mentally unstable. > > Thus to say that what Aurene did is a corruption the same as Kral and it only differ on how they are perceived is rather dishonest. Simply because the difference can be observed and compared by anyone who had seen it. The Dev might be redefining the word "branded" and to me that's just lazy writing. Being branded has always mean being corrupted. The kind of branding that Elder Dragons does is like using a hot iron rather than temporary tattoos. I don't think the amount of magic infused into Caithe has any influence on Aurines ability to control her, in that area alone I think all Aurine needs is a mental connection which is what the two have. Kralk has no intention of giving his minions free will though, he just wants slaves, as many as he can have, as powerful as they can be. Aurine could probably mutate Caithe into a monstrosity and control her like a slave if she wished but she's a good dragon so I doubt she would ever do that. I hope I explained myself a bit better this time.. probably not though lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddOne.4387 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 What Aurene did was Branding, no question about it. She doesn't exercise any control she might have because of that Branding because she's a "good dragon". But the possibility of Aurene being able to do so is what caused consternation in Rytlock and Canach. I think that's a perfectly reasonable reaction. What happens if she doesn't stay good? Replacing dragons with other dragons was a flawed concept from the beginning because it relies on those dragons staying incorruptible and moral throughout millennia of existence. Something I consider to be unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > What Aurene did was Branding, no question about it. She doesn't exercise any control she might have because of that Branding because she's a "good dragon". But the possibility of Aurene being able to do so is what caused consternation in Rytlock and Canach. I think that's a perfectly reasonable reaction. What happens if she doesn't stay good? > > Replacing dragons with other dragons was a flawed concept from the beginning because it relies on those dragons staying incorruptible and moral throughout millennia of existence. Something I consider to be unlikely. Short term gain, long term loss, but who cares about the future if your world is going to end now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddOne.4387 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Only it was the plan for the long term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > > > > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > > > > Selective reading much? Here's what he said; > > > > > > > @"Teratus.2859" said: > > > > > > > If we managed to make a super serum that greatly enhanced our physical abilities **at the cost of our appearance** and could be abused to control our minds.. would **it be seen as mutilation/corruption** or would it be seen as an enhancement? > > > > > > > **That would depend entirely on how it was used.** > > > > > > > > > > The irony is that you're the one having selective reading. Teratus is basically saying that the terminology used for a singular action can change the view point, despite the fact that it is the very same thing. What's done to the individual is the same, the only difference is "how it was used" - for malice or out of benevolence. > > > > > > > > > > > > > If the serum changed your appearance and used to control your mind, that is a corruption not an enhancement. My response to him was very clear, "In GW2, many sons of Svanir are willing yet they are no different than those who are corrupted unwillingly." > > > > > > > > The sons of Svanir, although willing, still see it as a corruption, not an enhancement, they are willing to be corrupted. That is because it is a settled lore that Elder Dragons corrupts, they don't enhance. > > > > > > > > His use of a serum as an example is no different than someone using steroids. Too much, you get deformation/corruption, but regulated dosage will give temporary enhancement. > > > > > > > > You selectively read that portion with no regards to everything I've posted. > > > > > > > > > It's the same kitten thing as the two Pact soldiers discussing being branded by Aurene or by Kralkatorrik in The Forged, where one comments indirectly that they'd rather be branded by Aurene than by Kralkatorrik. > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yeah, I'm not trying to convince you whether it's the same or not. I'm simply stating that what I've observed Aurene did **IS NOT** the same kitten thing as what Kral did. Everyone who has eyes can see the kitten difference. > > > > > > What I ment with the Serum example was a definition of the process based on the perspective of those it was used on.. forced or chosen. > > > > > > > That's like saying that getting a flesh eating bacterial infection on your arm is a good thing just because you are willing to receive it and you perceived it that it enhances your looks. > > Extreme example yes.. but if someone were to be convinced that they are enhancing their appearance by doing so then it would be very difficult to convince them otherwise even if the majority of people considered it a negative thing. > We can see many real world examples of that in such as tattoos or piercings. > Some people choose to have them on their face or various parts of the body which to them is a cosmetic improvement but to others could be deemed the complete opposite based on their own opinions/views. > My point is; regardless of what the person see, a mutilation is a mutilation. Same goes with corruption. The way you perceive it doesn't change what it is. If the goal is cosmetic improvement, there are many alternatives than the mutilation of the flesh. It seems to me that you're arguing that "Stealing" is just "Borrowing". Once you accept a different definition of a word based on perception, you lose the meaning of the words and it would make it very difficult to communicate. This is why I do not buy what ArenaNet is selling, telling us that what Aurene did is "branding" when it is fully established in their own lore that an Elder Dragon branding corrupts and their corruption doesn't affect the Sylvari. If they change the meaning of ED branding and what it is to be a Sylvari, it becomes harder to believe everything else they say afterwards. The whole thing becomes fan fiction. In fact, Scarlett and the whole LS1 is a fan fiction that's why a lot of things makes no sense. The Devs have caused an irreparable damage to the lore that left it scarred (hmm, aptly named, Scarlett). > > > To use your Sons of Svanir example.. while it's true that we regard the icebrood as corrupted and that Jormag does dominate and control them. > > > Those who are corrupted by choice don't believe that the process is corruption.. I think there are even Svanir NPC's in the game who refer to Jormags corruption as being imbued with Dragon's power.. or blessings. > > > The Sons don't see Jormag in the same way the rest of the races do rather they think of him as the ultimate totem spirit rather than a monster, which is why he's referred to as Dragon.. much in the same way as normal norn would speak of Bear, Wolf etc > > > > > > We see it as corruption.. but they see it as enhancement.. or some sort of divine blessing. > > > > > > > As I have already mentioned, you're example only touched on the subject where the super serum causes deformation and was used to control mind. Thus whether the participant is willing or not, the very fact that its use causes deformation and used to control mind makes it a corruption. So it really comes down to the intent of the applicator. > > > > Now you also mentioned, "that would depend entirely on how it was **used**" which can only meant that it's either used to corrupt or used to enhanced. You didn't say that it would depend on how it is **perceived**. So if I misunderstand your point, then that's why. > > > If you misunderstood then I probably hold blame as well as I likely messed up my explination. > I'm not a very articulate person and have a fair bit of difficulty explaining my points and making them make sense to others >.< life long problem i'm afraid, but I don't mean to cause arguments. > Yeah, I really did thought we're on the same page there. > I guess in a basic way of saying it.. i'm saying the magic and process of corruption is the same for both the branded and Caithe.. > The differences are firstly the intent of the dragons, Kralkatorrik aiming to dominate his minions ) where as Aurine seeks to connect with hers without dominating them. > Then secondly how the process is percieved by others.. Bad = corruption, Good = connection/enhancement.. the process however is more or less the same, the dragon infuses it's minion with power, altering their physical appearance, granting them new abilities and forging a connection between them which can be used positively or negatively depending on the intent of the Dragon. > Either way it's a corruption because it came from an Elder Dragon because it is established that Elder Dragon corrupts and it doesn't really matter how one perceives it. Their magic corrupts (not just affects) both the body and the mind. That is why what happened to Caithe is not a corruption. Yes, both ED and Aurene infuses magic to their subject, but compare how Kral delivered the magic to how Aurene did it, it's the difference in the amount of magic infused. You said that Kral aimed to dominate, how else would he had done this other than infusing his minions with overwhelming and unregulated amount of magic? The way Kral dominates is to overpower your resistance thus effectively corrupting you. Aurene didn't try to overpower or dominate Caithe thus there is no corruption. > > Enhancement is temporary effect while corruption is very permanent. Thus I used the example of regulated using and unregulated abusing of steroids. While regulated dosage will grant enhancement, abusing it will start to corrupt the body, mentally and physically. > > Enhancements can be permanent or temporary depending on what the enhancement is. > Dragon corruption for example is a great deal different from say.. elementalist aura's or boons.. or even Necromancers shroud. > Some Masteries too could be considered a form of enhancement that is permanent.. Crystal champion being the obvious example as those masteries are based around abilities bestowed to you by Aurine which allow you to do all sorts of things like absorb volatile magic. > The enhancement I'm talking about is within the context of what happened to Caithe. If what she received from Aurene is a corruption, then it would be permanent. Seeing that the "crystallized flowers" faded away shows that they are temporary and couldn't have been a corruption. If Caithe did got corrupted by Aurene, Caithe would not have lost those flowers on Aurene's death. > > In the same way, Aurene has no intention to corrupt Caithe which means she didn't overdosed Caithe on the magic infusion. While Kral's intention is to corrupt, he delivers his magic unregulated to the point where the subjects are physically deformed and mentally unstable. > > > > Thus to say that what Aurene did is a corruption the same as Kral and it only differ on how they are perceived is rather dishonest. Simply because the difference can be observed and compared by anyone who had seen it. The Dev might be redefining the word "branded" and to me that's just lazy writing. Being branded has always mean being corrupted. The kind of branding that Elder Dragons does is like using a hot iron rather than temporary tattoos. > > I don't think the amount of magic infused into Caithe has any influence on Aurines ability to control her, in that area alone I think all Aurine needs is a mental connection which is what the two have. If Aurene's intent is to dominate Caithe, then all she has to do is infused Caithe with overwhelming magic until Caithe is corrupted with magic, just like what Kral would do. > Kralk has no intention of giving his minions free will though, he just wants slaves, as many as he can have, as powerful as they can be. > Aurine could probably mutate Caithe into a monstrosity and control her like a slave if she wished but she's a good dragon so I doubt she would ever do that. > One thing we don't know is the origin of Kralkatorik. However, he is a "good" dragon in a sense since Elder Dragons devour magic when there are too much magic going around and goes back to sleep when the level of magic is back in order. Will Aurene stay "good" when she tries to restore balance but in the process unintentionally branding half of the world? > I hope I explained myself a bit better this time.. probably not though lol No, it's better, I understand your point clearer this time. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > Only it was the plan for the long term. There was never a long term plan. Every episode, every expansion, are all short term plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Konig Des Todes.2086 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > The enhancement I'm talking about is within the context of what happened to Caithe. If what she received from Aurene is a corruption, then it would be permanent. Seeing that the "crystallized flowers" faded away shows that they are temporary and couldn't have been a corruption. If Caithe did got corrupted by Aurene, Caithe would not have lost those flowers on Aurene's death. What happened to Caithe **_IS_** permanent. More than just a few flowers was crystallized in her body. What faded was merely a decoration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 > @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > The enhancement I'm talking about is within the context of what happened to Caithe. If what she received from Aurene is a corruption, then it would be permanent. Seeing that the "crystallized flowers" faded away shows that they are temporary and couldn't have been a corruption. If Caithe did got corrupted by Aurene, Caithe would not have lost those flowers on Aurene's death. > > What happened to Caithe **_IS_** permanent. More than just a few flowers was crystallized in her body. What faded was merely a decoration. Yes and it was another visual representation that Aurene had died as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThatOddOne.4387 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > Only it was the plan for the long term. > > There was never a long term plan. Every episode, every expansion, are all short term plans. It was the Forgotten's and Glint's long term plan, since I apparently need to be laser-focused specific. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyson.5160 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > > Only it was the plan for the long term. > > > > There was never a long term plan. Every episode, every expansion, are all short term plans. > > It was the Forgotten's and Glint's long term plan, since I apparently need to be laser-focused specific. Well he’s trying to argue with me that Corsairs aren’t pirates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir Vincent III.1286 Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > > > @"ThatOddOne.4387" said: > > > Only it was the plan for the long term. > > > > There was never a long term plan. Every episode, every expansion, are all short term plans. > > It was the Forgotten's and Glint's long term plan, since I apparently need to be laser-focused specific. There was a goal set by Glint but no plan to reach that goal, especially when the goal post keeps on shifting to generate drama. Glint didn't know about Scarlett nor she did know about Balthazar. If Glint did know that killing the ED was a bad idea, then why did she commissioned Destiny's Edge of killing Kral? Let go even way back. If Glint knew that the ED will wake up and create all these mess that we have to clean up if we kill Abaddon, then why did she set the motion with the Flameseeker's Prophesy? There was never a long term plan. Everything is a short term plan and then everyone act surprise when shit hits the fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Daniel Handler.4816 Posted March 27, 2019 Author Share Posted March 27, 2019 > @"Sir Vincent III.1286" said: > Either way it's a corruption because it came from an Elder Dragon because it is established that Elder Dragon corrupts and it doesn't really matter how one perceives it. Their magic corrupts (not just affects) both the body and the mind. That is why what happened to Caithe is not a corruption. It was already establish way before this that the corruption of the mind that happened to Glint was cleansed by the Forgotten in a ritual. Glint's daughter and son, Aurene/Vlast, had free minds as a result of this. And now Aurene has created cleansed corruption. No definitions have changed. Second, the immunity to corruption is via the protection of the Dream. That has not changed. Caithe was corrupted because the Dream allowed it. We can only guess why it did. But we have known for a very long time it can decide things on its own. That is how every Sylvari gets its name, and some get Wyld Hunts. Nothing has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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