Why does warrior hit for 5-10k a chop while having 3k+ armor stats and 1k regen from adren and sig?

[Gundam Style.8495]

I play on thief with demolisher amulet and fighter rune. war dont hit me so hard. run away from him when he glows kinda red...cause lots of stop action and death

 

i mean, i don't stand there and get "chopped" hehe

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

Cauz balance man! Don't you know that by now?

It's normal to have an elite like rampage on such low cd while spamming cc with dmg, meanwhile other transformation like Lich have double the double the cooldown less dmg and less stab up time. Also all that telegraphated argument things ffs eviscerate 3/4s with quickness even less arcing slice 0.5s where's the long telegraphated thing?Oh you mean the axe auto chain 0.25s, instant then 1.25s chain cmon let's be serious here, war dmg is busted always was always will be. If you count in the dmg modifiers you're set. War never died just got overshadow by other power creep, the dmg is still insane, no doubt about it. Dont even come up with no mobility argument because it's kitten. Embrace the power creep man reroll war, o you got prob with condies not worry u got a stunbreak 6 condi rem right there ;) cleasing ire in case u want to clean more =)

[Crystal Paladin.3871]

> @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> Cauz balance man! Don't you know that by now?

> It's normal to have an elite like rampage on such low cd while spamming cc with dmg, meanwhile other transformation like Lich have double the double the cooldown less dmg and less stab up time. Also all that telegraphated argument things kitten eviscerate 3/4s with quickness even less arcing slice 0.5s where's the long telegraphated thing?Oh you mean the axe auto chain 0.25s, instant then 1.25s chain cmon let's be serious here, war dmg is busted always was always will be. If you count in the dmg modifiers you're set. War never died just got overshadow by other power creep, the dmg is still insane, no doubt about it. Dont even come up with no mobility argument because it's kitten. Embrace the power creep man reroll war, o you got prob with condies not worry u got a stunbreak 6 condi rem right there ;) cleasing ire in case u want to clean more =)

 

And here I thought necros' don't fear warriors... But it seems I'm wrong... But in all my matches, if I can't deal with a warrior, I unleash a Necro teammate on him and forget about it coz, the fight's always in necros' favor

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

> @"Crystal Paladin.3871" said:

> > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > Cauz balance man! Don't you know that by now?

> > It's normal to have an elite like rampage on such low cd while spamming cc with dmg, meanwhile other transformation like Lich have double the double the cooldown less dmg and less stab up time. Also all that telegraphated argument things kitten eviscerate 3/4s with quickness even less arcing slice 0.5s where's the long telegraphated thing?Oh you mean the axe auto chain 0.25s, instant then 1.25s chain cmon let's be serious here, war dmg is busted always was always will be. If you count in the dmg modifiers you're set. War never died just got overshadow by other power creep, the dmg is still insane, no doubt about it. Dont even come up with no mobility argument because it's kitten. Embrace the power creep man reroll war, o you got prob with condies not worry u got a stunbreak 6 condi rem right there ;) cleasing ire in case u want to clean more =)

>

> And here I thought necros' don't fear warriors... But it seems I'm wrong... But in all my matches, if I can't deal with a warrior, I unleash a Necro teammate on him and forget about it coz, the fight's always in necros' favor

 

You don't fear avarage ones, you fear those that are actually really good at it and properly cc chain burst, those are scary, rest a piece of cake xD

For example fought trama few times in arena got spanked so bad thought about rerolling lol

Still Anet I'm waiting for rampage treatment on Lich...

[Curennos.9307]

Shave down dagger3 (higher CD), bull charge (CC - evade - decent damage - mobility skill. Pick two), and rampage. Change tether to give 1 might the fight three ticks, 2 might the next three ticks, and 3 might the last 2 ticks. Slightly increase durations. Something with a ramp up or burst window to be played around.

 

Honestly, I'm not sure how to deal with Rampage. It seems like the kind of thing that is ridiculously OP or too weak to use. I don't like how strong the use of the skill is - no matter how long the cooldown is, it's very strong while 'active'. Maybe a combination of CD increases, damage nerfs to skills, lower CD on skills? More uses out of the skills when you pop the elite, but less impact and less use of the elite itself.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > No profession hit you hard when it's under the effect of weakness and you are under the effect of protection.

>

> And then Warr uses Berserker Stance

 

You just end up with a 4 seconds predictible burst and I trust that any profession can deal with 4 second of predictible pressure be hit by mean of CC, kiting or defensive CD.

[LolLookAtMyAP.8394]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > No profession hit you hard when it's under the effect of weakness and you are under the effect of protection.

> >

> > And then Warr uses Berserker Stance

>

> You just end up with a 4 seconds predictible burst and I trust that any profession can deal with 4 second of predictible pressure be hit by mean of CC, kiting or defensive CD.

 

Or Featherfoot Grace or Shake It Off

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> Cauz balance man! Don't you know that by now?

> It's normal to have an elite like rampage on such low cd while spamming cc with dmg, meanwhile other transformation like Lich have double the double the cooldown less dmg and less stab up time. Also all that telegraphated argument things kitten eviscerate 3/4s with quickness even less arcing slice 0.5s where's the long telegraphated thing?Oh you mean the axe auto chain 0.25s, instant then 1.25s chain cmon let's be serious here, war dmg is busted always was always will be. If you count in the dmg modifiers you're set. War never died just got overshadow by other power creep, the dmg is still insane, no doubt about it. Dont even come up with no mobility argument because it's kitten. Embrace the power creep man reroll war, o you got prob with condies not worry u got a stunbreak 6 condi rem right there ;) cleasing ire in case u want to clean more =)

 

Eviscerate is unaffected by Quickness, go ahead and test it yourself. This is also implying Warrior even has a consistent means of Quickness, which it doesn't, when not running Frenzy which no one does because its not exactly worth taking over other cooldowns for sustain/clearing conditions.

 

Also you contradict yourself immediately by saying Warrior damage always was busted but then say it just got "overshadowed by other power creep" which is to say that it isn't busted compared to the damage of other classes like Soulbeast or Holo or whichever else you might compare it to.

 

As for mobility yeah they have a number of mobility skills that allows them to cover some significant distance. Unless they get hit with an immob in the middle of gs5 (no it doesn't get cleared by Warrior's Sprint in that scenario because the skill was already used and Rush has no evade frames) or CC'd in the middle of sword 2 and gs3 doesn't cover a lot of distance and Bull's Charge is typically best saved for either an "oh shit" disengage moment or for actual use as CC/set up damage.

 

Also Cleansing Ire only clears 1 condi per adrenaline bar and that is only if the Burst skills *hits* an enemy. Things like Cleansing Ire, similar to Adrenal Health, do not proc if the burst skill is evaded, misses, dodged, blocked or invuln'd. With the exception of Adrenal Health still activating even if Full Counter doesn't actually hit anything, invuln, block, evade or otherwise.

 

> @"Curennos.9307" said:

> Shave down dagger3 (higher CD), bull charge (CC - evade - decent damage - mobility skill. Pick two), and rampage. Change tether to give 1 might the fight three ticks, 2 might the next three ticks, and 3 might the last 2 ticks. Slightly increase durations. Something with a ramp up or burst window to be played around.

>

> Honestly, I'm not sure how to deal with Rampage. It seems like the kind of thing that is ridiculously OP or too weak to use. I don't like how strong the use of the skill is - no matter how long the cooldown is, it's very strong while 'active'. Maybe a combination of CD increases, damage nerfs to skills, lower CD on skills? More uses out of the skills when you pop the elite, but less impact and less use of the elite itself.

 

Why put a higher CD on dagger 3? Dagger is already only used as a means of CC chaining with other skills rather than for damage. Bull's Charge? Really? Pick two? Okay because this skill is an issue despite having a longer cast time than Shield Bash, even at point blank range and is especially easy to dodge if used at a longer distance than that. As for Magebane...maybe? Except compare it to another class that is capable of high might gain with decent (or rather better) uptime, Herald, and we run into the consistent problem of many people not acknowledging other classes in regards to their "balance" suggestions for [insert class to complain about here].

 

As for Rampage...eh? I mean sure I guess its on a shorter CD and has 3 CC skills. One of which is a very telegraphed leap (Rampage 5) another is a very telegraphed boulder toss (Rampage 4) and the third is the kick which is meh. You're probably only going to land it if you land the others or have quickness applied to you from some other means. As for dealing with Rampage in an actual fight, if you're 1v1 you know which skills to look out for and they are, as stated before, very obviously telegraphed so if you're in a 1v1 situation or even if you're outnumbered in a 1v2 situation you can still watch out for those animations and avoid being CC chained by Rampage skills by avoiding at least one of those skills.

[ProverbsofHell.2307]

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > No profession hit you hard when it's under the effect of weakness and you are under the effect of protection.

>

> And then Warr uses Berserker Stance

 

No decent Warrior uses Berserker Stance. Pulsing adrenaline and resistance? Really?

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > No profession hit you hard when it's under the effect of weakness and you are under the effect of protection.

> > >

> > > And then Warr uses Berserker Stance

> >

> > You just end up with a 4 seconds predictible burst and I trust that any profession can deal with 4 second of predictible pressure be hit by mean of CC, kiting or defensive CD.

>

> Or Featherfoot Grace or Shake It Off

 

So you just want the warrior to put it's neck on the chopping board, sharpen your knife and, maybe, gently guide your hand so that you can behead him? The game is a dynamic one it's up to you to counter your foes, if your build and gameplay fail at it, the first thing you should do is ponder what you can do to correct that. Asking for nerf isn't the proper way, you'd have to nerf every single thing in this game and you'd realize that the issue you faced is still there.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > > No profession hit you hard when it's under the effect of weakness and you are under the effect of protection.

> > > >

> > > > And then Warr uses Berserker Stance

> > >

> > > You just end up with a 4 seconds predictible burst and I trust that any profession can deal with 4 second of predictible pressure be hit by mean of CC, kiting or defensive CD.

> >

> > Or Featherfoot Grace or Shake It Off

>

> So you just want the warrior to put it's neck on the chopping board, sharpen your knife and, maybe, gently guide your hand so that you can behead him? The game is a dynamic one it's up to you to counter your foes, if your build and gameplay fail at it, the first thing you should do is ponder what you can do to correct that. Asking for nerf isn't the proper way, you'd have to nerf every single thing in this game and you'd realize that the issue you faced is still there.

 

Because when nerf mesmer threads were in vogue you were all about not advocating nerfs and just telling people to think about counter play.

 

Right now Spellbreaker, Soulbeast, Revenant, Engineer are going to be pretty dominant going forward. So yeah, they all deserve to be shaved down and it's probably going to happen sooner or later.

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > Cauz balance man! Don't you know that by now?

> > It's normal to have an elite like rampage on such low cd while spamming cc with dmg, meanwhile other transformation like Lich have double the double the cooldown less dmg and less stab up time. Also all that telegraphated argument things kitten eviscerate 3/4s with quickness even less arcing slice 0.5s where's the long telegraphated thing?Oh you mean the axe auto chain 0.25s, instant then 1.25s chain cmon let's be serious here, war dmg is busted always was always will be. If you count in the dmg modifiers you're set. War never died just got overshadow by other power creep, the dmg is still insane, no doubt about it. Dont even come up with no mobility argument because it's kitten. Embrace the power creep man reroll war, o you got prob with condies not worry u got a stunbreak 6 condi rem right there ;) cleasing ire in case u want to clean more =)

>

> Eviscerate is unaffected by Quickness, go ahead and test it yourself. This is also implying Warrior even has a consistent means of Quickness, which it doesn't, when not running Frenzy which no one does because its not exactly worth taking over other cooldowns for sustain/clearing conditions.

>

> Also you contradict yourself immediately by saying Warrior damage always was busted but then say it just got "overshadowed by other power creep" which is to say that it isn't busted compared to the damage of other classes like Soulbeast or Holo or whichever else you might compare it to.

>

> As for mobility yeah they have a number of mobility skills that allows them to cover some significant distance. Unless they get hit with an immob in the middle of gs5 (no it doesn't get cleared by Warrior's Sprint in that scenario because the skill was already used and Rush has no evade frames) or CC'd in the middle of sword 2 and gs3 doesn't cover a lot of distance and Bull's Charge is typically best saved for either an "oh kitten" disengage moment or for actual use as CC/set up damage.

>

> Also Cleansing Ire only clears 1 condi per adrenaline bar and that is only if the Burst skills *hits* an enemy. Things like Cleansing Ire, similar to Adrenal Health, do not proc if the burst skill is evaded, misses, dodged, blocked or invuln'd. With the exception of Adrenal Health still activating even if Full Counter doesn't actually hit anything, invuln, block, evade or otherwise.

>

> > @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > Shave down dagger3 (higher CD), bull charge (CC - evade - decent damage - mobility skill. Pick two), and rampage. Change tether to give 1 might the fight three ticks, 2 might the next three ticks, and 3 might the last 2 ticks. Slightly increase durations. Something with a ramp up or burst window to be played around.

> >

> > Honestly, I'm not sure how to deal with Rampage. It seems like the kind of thing that is ridiculously OP or too weak to use. I don't like how strong the use of the skill is - no matter how long the cooldown is, it's very strong while 'active'. Maybe a combination of CD increases, damage nerfs to skills, lower CD on skills? More uses out of the skills when you pop the elite, but less impact and less use of the elite itself.

>

> Why put a higher CD on dagger 3? Dagger is already only used as a means of CC chaining with other skills rather than for damage. Bull's Charge? Really? Pick two? Okay because this skill is an issue despite having a longer cast time than Shield Bash, even at point blank range and is especially easy to dodge if used at a longer distance than that. As for Magebane...maybe? Except compare it to another class that is capable of high might gain with decent (or rather better) uptime, Herald, and we run into the consistent problem of many people not acknowledging other classes in regards to their "balance" suggestions for [insert class to complain about here].

>

> As for Rampage...eh? I mean sure I guess its on a shorter CD and has 3 CC skills. One of which is a very telegraphed leap (Rampage 5) another is a very telegraphed boulder toss (Rampage 4) and the third is the kick which is meh. You're probably only going to land it if you land the others or have quickness applied to you from some other means. As for dealing with Rampage in an actual fight, if you're 1v1 you know which skills to look out for and they are, as stated before, very obviously telegraphed so if you're in a 1v1 situation or even if you're outnumbered in a 1v2 situation you can still watch out for those animations and avoid being CC chained by Rampage skills by avoiding at least one of those skills.

 

The fact that I'm sayin warrior dmg got overshadowed by other power creep does not mean it's not busted. Everything in the game should be nerfed, soulbeast damage, holo, warrior etc If it was for me i would cut down ferocity and power on everything. The power creep of every class, has transformed this game into half life to oneshot pvp or condi overload or immortal bunkers, that is not healthy for the game.

[Curennos.9307]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > Cauz balance man! Don't you know that by now?

> > It's normal to have an elite like rampage on such low cd while spamming cc with dmg, meanwhile other transformation like Lich have double the double the cooldown less dmg and less stab up time. Also all that telegraphated argument things kitten eviscerate 3/4s with quickness even less arcing slice 0.5s where's the long telegraphated thing?Oh you mean the axe auto chain 0.25s, instant then 1.25s chain cmon let's be serious here, war dmg is busted always was always will be. If you count in the dmg modifiers you're set. War never died just got overshadow by other power creep, the dmg is still insane, no doubt about it. Dont even come up with no mobility argument because it's kitten. Embrace the power creep man reroll war, o you got prob with condies not worry u got a stunbreak 6 condi rem right there ;) cleasing ire in case u want to clean more =)

>

> Eviscerate is unaffected by Quickness, go ahead and test it yourself. This is also implying Warrior even has a consistent means of Quickness, which it doesn't, when not running Frenzy which no one does because its not exactly worth taking over other cooldowns for sustain/clearing conditions.

>

> Also you contradict yourself immediately by saying Warrior damage always was busted but then say it just got "overshadowed by other power creep" which is to say that it isn't busted compared to the damage of other classes like Soulbeast or Holo or whichever else you might compare it to.

>

> As for mobility yeah they have a number of mobility skills that allows them to cover some significant distance. Unless they get hit with an immob in the middle of gs5 (no it doesn't get cleared by Warrior's Sprint in that scenario because the skill was already used and Rush has no evade frames) or CC'd in the middle of sword 2 and gs3 doesn't cover a lot of distance and Bull's Charge is typically best saved for either an "oh kitten" disengage moment or for actual use as CC/set up damage.

>

> Also Cleansing Ire only clears 1 condi per adrenaline bar and that is only if the Burst skills *hits* an enemy. Things like Cleansing Ire, similar to Adrenal Health, do not proc if the burst skill is evaded, misses, dodged, blocked or invuln'd. With the exception of Adrenal Health still activating even if Full Counter doesn't actually hit anything, invuln, block, evade or otherwise.

>

> > @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > Shave down dagger3 (higher CD), bull charge (CC - evade - decent damage - mobility skill. Pick two), and rampage. Change tether to give 1 might the fight three ticks, 2 might the next three ticks, and 3 might the last 2 ticks. Slightly increase durations. Something with a ramp up or burst window to be played around.

> >

> > Honestly, I'm not sure how to deal with Rampage. It seems like the kind of thing that is ridiculously OP or too weak to use. I don't like how strong the use of the skill is - no matter how long the cooldown is, it's very strong while 'active'. Maybe a combination of CD increases, damage nerfs to skills, lower CD on skills? More uses out of the skills when you pop the elite, but less impact and less use of the elite itself.

>

> Why put a higher CD on dagger 3? Dagger is already only used as a means of CC chaining with other skills rather than for damage. Bull's Charge? Really? Pick two? Okay because this skill is an issue despite having a longer cast time than Shield Bash, even at point blank range and is especially easy to dodge if used at a longer distance than that. As for Magebane...maybe? Except compare it to another class that is capable of high might gain with decent (or rather better) uptime, Herald, and we run into the consistent problem of many people not acknowledging other classes in regards to their "balance" suggestions for [insert class to complain about here].

>

> As for Rampage...eh? I mean sure I guess its on a shorter CD and has 3 CC skills. One of which is a very telegraphed leap (Rampage 5) another is a very telegraphed boulder toss (Rampage 4) and the third is the kick which is meh. You're probably only going to land it if you land the others or have quickness applied to you from some other means. As for dealing with Rampage in an actual fight, if you're 1v1 you know which skills to look out for and they are, as stated before, very obviously telegraphed so if you're in a 1v1 situation or even if you're outnumbered in a 1v2 situation you can still watch out for those animations and avoid being CC chained by Rampage skills by avoiding at least one of those skills.

 

Just because I am suggesting changes to warrior does not mean I am totally lacking in thoughts concerning other classes. But this is a warrior thread and it really isn't efficient nor feasible to address every single lil thing outside warrior.

 

As for dagger3, because it's a 12 sec stun, basically, and the low CD means you can miss it and not suffer too harshly. Mind you I dont want the CD doubled - maybe 15 sec or so. It has a job with a lil bit of damage on the side (every bit helps but w/e). It does that job /very/ well. A little too well, imo. Obviously you can't use dagger3 as a burst damage skill because it just ISN'T - I can't use skills that don't heal to heal, but that doesn't mean they're bad, perfectly balanced, what have you.

 

As for bull charge, you're narrowing the focus too much. It's the opposite of dagger3. Alone, every single thing the skill does is fine. The issue is that it doesn't do /just/ that. It's not an absolutely godly CC, nor is it S tier damage, or super fast cast, or totally lacking in telegraph...but that's not the point - it does a LOT Of things and it does them pretty darn well. Sort of like all meta builds. Anyway. Does the skill REALLY have to have evade, gapclose/gapmaker, leap finisher, damage (1300 tooltip, nothing to sneeze at), low CD (24 sec traited). Does the slightly higher cast time and 4 sec of additional cooldown time justify all that? Either a ton of other skills are severely underpowered, or something is up with bull's charge.

 

My beef with rampage is w/the impact of the skills (and you get stab the entire time!) It's either you completely negate them or get chunked (the times when your boulder gets sucked into a void somewhere aside). Forcing opponents to use up defenses is just as valuable as actually hitting them with a skill, and what's what rampage does. 3/5, maybe 4/5 of the skills available do that. I say 3/5 and maybe 4/5 etc because it's debatable about the AA and the #2 kick, but even those hurt. It's very similar to bull charge in some regards. What resources can we expect an opponent be forced to use up/allocate to 'deal' with whatever we're doing at any given moment? Rampage + it's cooldown means it has a much, much higher cost for whoever you're facing to deal with than the other options and it can be made to run opponents dry of defensives pretty often. Of course, too often, imo. What is the user giving up to use the skill + impact of the skill (damage, support, etc) + what options does the opponent have/what options are the opponents forced to give up.

 

And ofc, I am all for the removal of that quickness on swap rune. Causes massive amounts of trouble, imo.

[otto.5684]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > > @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > > > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > > > > > No profession hit you hard when it's under the effect of weakness and you are under the effect of protection.

> > > > >

> > > > > And then Warr uses Berserker Stance

> > > >

> > > > You just end up with a 4 seconds predictible burst and I trust that any profession can deal with 4 second of predictible pressure be hit by mean of CC, kiting or defensive CD.

> > >

> > > Or Featherfoot Grace or Shake It Off

> >

> > So you just want the warrior to put it's neck on the chopping board, sharpen your knife and, maybe, gently guide your hand so that you can behead him? The game is a dynamic one it's up to you to counter your foes, if your build and gameplay fail at it, the first thing you should do is ponder what you can do to correct that. Asking for nerf isn't the proper way, you'd have to nerf every single thing in this game and you'd realize that the issue you faced is still there.

>

> Because when nerf mesmer threads were in vogue you were all about not advocating nerfs and just telling people to think about counter play.

>

> Right now Spellbreaker, Soulbeast, Revenant, Engineer are going to be pretty dominant going forward. So yeah, they all deserve to be shaved down and it's probably going to happen sooner or later.

 

This pretty much sums the state of PvP. I would add FB support to this list (and I do not feel as strongly towards rev).

[apharma.3741]

TLDR: Classes stack to 25 might too fast and too easily which makes those classes really really strong. No class should be hitting 25 might alone.

 

No, you, stop typing, stop trying to say "this one class/build". NO.

[Tycura.1982]

> @"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:

> > @"Dadnir.5038" said:

> > No profession hit you hard when it's under the effect of weakness and you are under the effect of protection.

>

> And then Warr uses Berserker Stance

 

Zerker stance isn't worth it anymore. Run fleet of foot or whatever.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

> @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > Cauz balance man! Don't you know that by now?

> > > It's normal to have an elite like rampage on such low cd while spamming cc with dmg, meanwhile other transformation like Lich have double the double the cooldown less dmg and less stab up time. Also all that telegraphated argument things kitten eviscerate 3/4s with quickness even less arcing slice 0.5s where's the long telegraphated thing?Oh you mean the axe auto chain 0.25s, instant then 1.25s chain cmon let's be serious here, war dmg is busted always was always will be. If you count in the dmg modifiers you're set. War never died just got overshadow by other power creep, the dmg is still insane, no doubt about it. Dont even come up with no mobility argument because it's kitten. Embrace the power creep man reroll war, o you got prob with condies not worry u got a stunbreak 6 condi rem right there ;) cleasing ire in case u want to clean more =)

> >

> > Eviscerate is unaffected by Quickness, go ahead and test it yourself. This is also implying Warrior even has a consistent means of Quickness, which it doesn't, when not running Frenzy which no one does because its not exactly worth taking over other cooldowns for sustain/clearing conditions.

> >

> > Also you contradict yourself immediately by saying Warrior damage always was busted but then say it just got "overshadowed by other power creep" which is to say that it isn't busted compared to the damage of other classes like Soulbeast or Holo or whichever else you might compare it to.

> >

> > As for mobility yeah they have a number of mobility skills that allows them to cover some significant distance. Unless they get hit with an immob in the middle of gs5 (no it doesn't get cleared by Warrior's Sprint in that scenario because the skill was already used and Rush has no evade frames) or CC'd in the middle of sword 2 and gs3 doesn't cover a lot of distance and Bull's Charge is typically best saved for either an "oh kitten" disengage moment or for actual use as CC/set up damage.

> >

> > Also Cleansing Ire only clears 1 condi per adrenaline bar and that is only if the Burst skills *hits* an enemy. Things like Cleansing Ire, similar to Adrenal Health, do not proc if the burst skill is evaded, misses, dodged, blocked or invuln'd. With the exception of Adrenal Health still activating even if Full Counter doesn't actually hit anything, invuln, block, evade or otherwise.

> >

> > > @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > > Shave down dagger3 (higher CD), bull charge (CC - evade - decent damage - mobility skill. Pick two), and rampage. Change tether to give 1 might the fight three ticks, 2 might the next three ticks, and 3 might the last 2 ticks. Slightly increase durations. Something with a ramp up or burst window to be played around.

> > >

> > > Honestly, I'm not sure how to deal with Rampage. It seems like the kind of thing that is ridiculously OP or too weak to use. I don't like how strong the use of the skill is - no matter how long the cooldown is, it's very strong while 'active'. Maybe a combination of CD increases, damage nerfs to skills, lower CD on skills? More uses out of the skills when you pop the elite, but less impact and less use of the elite itself.

> >

> > Why put a higher CD on dagger 3? Dagger is already only used as a means of CC chaining with other skills rather than for damage. Bull's Charge? Really? Pick two? Okay because this skill is an issue despite having a longer cast time than Shield Bash, even at point blank range and is especially easy to dodge if used at a longer distance than that. As for Magebane...maybe? Except compare it to another class that is capable of high might gain with decent (or rather better) uptime, Herald, and we run into the consistent problem of many people not acknowledging other classes in regards to their "balance" suggestions for [insert class to complain about here].

> >

> > As for Rampage...eh? I mean sure I guess its on a shorter CD and has 3 CC skills. One of which is a very telegraphed leap (Rampage 5) another is a very telegraphed boulder toss (Rampage 4) and the third is the kick which is meh. You're probably only going to land it if you land the others or have quickness applied to you from some other means. As for dealing with Rampage in an actual fight, if you're 1v1 you know which skills to look out for and they are, as stated before, very obviously telegraphed so if you're in a 1v1 situation or even if you're outnumbered in a 1v2 situation you can still watch out for those animations and avoid being CC chained by Rampage skills by avoiding at least one of those skills.

>

> The fact that I'm sayin warrior dmg got overshadowed by other power creep does not mean it's not busted. Everything in the game should be nerfed, soulbeast damage, holo, warrior etc If it was for me i would cut down ferocity and power on everything. The power creep of every class, has transformed this game into half life to oneshot pvp or condi overload or immortal bunkers, that is not healthy for the game.

 

You realize class balance pertains to how a class is compared to other classes in the game, correct? Of course this is a Warrior thread but when we are bringing balance into the discussion you have to measure what you are suggesting or what you are referencing against everything else that it goes up against in the game. For sure there is power creep in the game, I don't deny that one bit, my issue was that not only are you pointing out these things as "issues" when they are most certainly not, it is also that you don't have the greatest grasp of the class itself just based around your misunderstanding as to how Quickness applies to Eviscerate. Which it doesn't, as I said.

 

 

> @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > Cauz balance man! Don't you know that by now?

> > > It's normal to have an elite like rampage on such low cd while spamming cc with dmg, meanwhile other transformation like Lich have double the double the cooldown less dmg and less stab up time. Also all that telegraphated argument things kitten eviscerate 3/4s with quickness even less arcing slice 0.5s where's the long telegraphated thing?Oh you mean the axe auto chain 0.25s, instant then 1.25s chain cmon let's be serious here, war dmg is busted always was always will be. If you count in the dmg modifiers you're set. War never died just got overshadow by other power creep, the dmg is still insane, no doubt about it. Dont even come up with no mobility argument because it's kitten. Embrace the power creep man reroll war, o you got prob with condies not worry u got a stunbreak 6 condi rem right there ;) cleasing ire in case u want to clean more =)

> >

> > Eviscerate is unaffected by Quickness, go ahead and test it yourself. This is also implying Warrior even has a consistent means of Quickness, which it doesn't, when not running Frenzy which no one does because its not exactly worth taking over other cooldowns for sustain/clearing conditions.

> >

> > Also you contradict yourself immediately by saying Warrior damage always was busted but then say it just got "overshadowed by other power creep" which is to say that it isn't busted compared to the damage of other classes like Soulbeast or Holo or whichever else you might compare it to.

> >

> > As for mobility yeah they have a number of mobility skills that allows them to cover some significant distance. Unless they get hit with an immob in the middle of gs5 (no it doesn't get cleared by Warrior's Sprint in that scenario because the skill was already used and Rush has no evade frames) or CC'd in the middle of sword 2 and gs3 doesn't cover a lot of distance and Bull's Charge is typically best saved for either an "oh kitten" disengage moment or for actual use as CC/set up damage.

> >

> > Also Cleansing Ire only clears 1 condi per adrenaline bar and that is only if the Burst skills *hits* an enemy. Things like Cleansing Ire, similar to Adrenal Health, do not proc if the burst skill is evaded, misses, dodged, blocked or invuln'd. With the exception of Adrenal Health still activating even if Full Counter doesn't actually hit anything, invuln, block, evade or otherwise.

> >

> > > @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > > Shave down dagger3 (higher CD), bull charge (CC - evade - decent damage - mobility skill. Pick two), and rampage. Change tether to give 1 might the fight three ticks, 2 might the next three ticks, and 3 might the last 2 ticks. Slightly increase durations. Something with a ramp up or burst window to be played around.

> > >

> > > Honestly, I'm not sure how to deal with Rampage. It seems like the kind of thing that is ridiculously OP or too weak to use. I don't like how strong the use of the skill is - no matter how long the cooldown is, it's very strong while 'active'. Maybe a combination of CD increases, damage nerfs to skills, lower CD on skills? More uses out of the skills when you pop the elite, but less impact and less use of the elite itself.

> >

> > Why put a higher CD on dagger 3? Dagger is already only used as a means of CC chaining with other skills rather than for damage. Bull's Charge? Really? Pick two? Okay because this skill is an issue despite having a longer cast time than Shield Bash, even at point blank range and is especially easy to dodge if used at a longer distance than that. As for Magebane...maybe? Except compare it to another class that is capable of high might gain with decent (or rather better) uptime, Herald, and we run into the consistent problem of many people not acknowledging other classes in regards to their "balance" suggestions for [insert class to complain about here].

> >

> > As for Rampage...eh? I mean sure I guess its on a shorter CD and has 3 CC skills. One of which is a very telegraphed leap (Rampage 5) another is a very telegraphed boulder toss (Rampage 4) and the third is the kick which is meh. You're probably only going to land it if you land the others or have quickness applied to you from some other means. As for dealing with Rampage in an actual fight, if you're 1v1 you know which skills to look out for and they are, as stated before, very obviously telegraphed so if you're in a 1v1 situation or even if you're outnumbered in a 1v2 situation you can still watch out for those animations and avoid being CC chained by Rampage skills by avoiding at least one of those skills.

>

> Just because I am suggesting changes to warrior does not mean I am totally lacking in thoughts concerning other classes. But this is a warrior thread and it really isn't efficient nor feasible to address every single lil thing outside warrior.

>

> As for dagger3, because it's a 12 sec stun, basically, and the low CD means you can miss it and not suffer too harshly. Mind you I dont want the CD doubled - maybe 15 sec or so. It has a job with a lil bit of damage on the side (every bit helps but w/e). It does that job /very/ well. A little too well, imo. Obviously you can't use dagger3 as a burst damage skill because it just ISN'T - I can't use skills that don't heal to heal, but that doesn't mean they're bad, perfectly balanced, what have you.

>

> As for bull charge, you're narrowing the focus too much. It's the opposite of dagger3. Alone, every single thing the skill does is fine. The issue is that it doesn't do /just/ that. It's not an absolutely godly CC, nor is it S tier damage, or super fast cast, or totally lacking in telegraph...but that's not the point - it does a LOT Of things and it does them pretty darn well. Sort of like all meta builds. Anyway. Does the skill REALLY have to have evade, gapclose/gapmaker, leap finisher, damage (1300 tooltip, nothing to sneeze at), low CD (24 sec traited). Does the slightly higher cast time and 4 sec of additional cooldown time justify all that? Either a ton of other skills are severely underpowered, or something is up with bull's charge.

>

> My beef with rampage is w/the impact of the skills (and you get stab the entire time!) It's either you completely negate them or get chunked (the times when your boulder gets sucked into a void somewhere aside). Forcing opponents to use up defenses is just as valuable as actually hitting them with a skill, and what's what rampage does. 3/5, maybe 4/5 of the skills available do that. I say 3/5 and maybe 4/5 etc because it's debatable about the AA and the #2 kick, but even those hurt. It's very similar to bull charge in some regards. What resources can we expect an opponent be forced to use up/allocate to 'deal' with whatever we're doing at any given moment? Rampage + it's cooldown means it has a much, much higher cost for whoever you're facing to deal with than the other options and it can be made to run opponents dry of defensives pretty often. Of course, too often, imo. What is the user giving up to use the skill + impact of the skill (damage, support, etc) + what options does the opponent have/what options are the opponents forced to give up.

>

> And ofc, I am all for the removal of that quickness on swap rune. Causes massive amounts of trouble, imo.

 

I think you mean its a 12 second CD stun, correct? You worded that rather strangely. I think you're overestimating the dagger skills quite a bit. While helpful and while powerful when used appropriately that doesn't make them overtuned. My point in pointing out the lack of damage on dagger is that, as a whole, dagger hits very weakly now and not just that one skill you referenced. Its very...meh in terms of pressuring an enemy outside of actually landing the stun effect from dagger 3. Boonrip on Spellbreaker hasn't been strong enough for a while now to really impact *that* heavily against things like Firebrand, Boonbeast and at this point now Scrapper. You get better boon rip/corrupt from Necro, thats why Spellbreaker has been falling off with recent meta changes and recent seasons. It still has a presence but not nearly that of other classes to take over Spellbreaker.

 

Bull's Charge does a lot, sure, but if it *didn't* imagine where that would put Warrior against other classes? Not in a balanced place. Remove the evade? You'll just get range CC'd in the middle of the movement distance. Remove the CC? Its just a second Rush, just as telegraphed, that happens to get categorized as a Physical skill. Remove/Reduce the movement distance? Its just a worse or second Shield Bash. (Shield Bash = 3/4 sec cast time vs Bull's Charge = 1 sec cast time) that you can *still* get CC'd out of.

 

To be honest about Rampage, as useful as people have found it in PvP I can't really say that I've had *that* much issue against it. In sPvP or WvW. If I'm in a 1v1 with a Warrior and I see Rampage get popped I just go "K" and either evade the important CC's or go full trade mode depending on what CDs are available and if its necessary to waste them. While Rampage has Damage Reduction and pulsing Stability the Warrior is also losing out on their utility skills. Meaning no Endure Pain (unless Defy Pain procs), no Balanced Stance (unless Last Stand procs) and no condi clears like in the case of Shake It Off. And even if they end Rampage and then immediately clear condis or use those cooldowns to recover then they just blew their important CDs for sustain which leaves them open for more pressure from you. *Maybe* it could do with an increase to its CD, honestly it wouldn't hurt my Warrior in the least bit but I genuinely question what and how people complain about some skills because typically they either get it wrong or their suggestion is just unwarranted due to their own frustration in the moment and they just get stuck on that thought.

 

Just to give an example of what I mean from a perspective I can get behind when it comes to complaints. I dislike Mirage and its mechanics with a *passion*. There are just things wrong with Mirage that are silly and ridiculous and they shouldn't be included in the game design for a PvP environment. *However* I'm not going onto the forums or ingame and nitpicking at things that are *not* the problem because I lack an understanding of how the class works, I look to actively pinpoint the *actual* problems and try to talk about those. For instance, many people complain about the amount of clones, the amount of damage from both condi and power that Mirage can do and its sustain paired with its mobility. Now yes those are all understandably things people would find issue with...if they are just being impulsive and frustrated and not thinking, sure. Mirages problems don't stem from its damage, its mobility or its clones (though honestly yeeeah that could use some toning down but thats not the biggest problem). The biggest problem with Mirage, from what I've gathered from not just fighting it but also having played it to understand it, is that it is *the only class* that has an active and frequent ability to just "nope" what a CC is used for setting up without using a stunbreak (no I don't mean Elusive Mind). The problem stems from them being able to use Mirage Cloak (again I am *not* talking about Elusive Mind) while CC'd. Knocked down, stunned, immobilized, dazed, etc. They can just tap the dodge button, apply Mirage Cloak and even if you somehow managed to finally land a CC on the Mirage they just don't even need to worry about it. Now granted they did recently reduce the evade timeframe on Mirage's dodge to that of every other class but I am still not convinced its enough to quell the problem just as the 1 second reduction in stealth duration from Silent Scope on DE just hasn't at all fixed the perma stealthing problem.

 

A lot of the issues people have with Warriors these days does quite genuinely stem from a "learn to play" problem especially in regards to discussions about damage because while, yes, I agree that the game has been slowly power creeped over the years (in sPvP its been more AoE creep than anything) Warrior damage compared to that of Holo, Soulbeast, Mirage, Herald, and Deadeye is really *not* the issue here. Calling for nerfs to Warrior damage in a thread in the PvP section of the forums isn't going to suddenly change every other classes damage. If what you want happens, they pay attention to this thread and see "oh Warrior damage is too much" and then nerf the damage or whatever else to their skills that you are asking for then you'd just see the other classes stay the same and Warrior fall deeper into the nerf pits. Thats not productive, thats not helpful...focus on the bigger picture and not the little one that you are pinpoint focused on because you got a little frustrated one night or a few nights because some Warrior annoyed you and you're letting your frustration get the better of you, even if you don't feel frustrated or angry right now...that still carries influence on your decisions afterwards if you don't cool off and take stock of *why* you're actually frustrated in the first place. With yourself? With the game? Or with something else?

 

To be honest...in regards to sPvP I can see how Rampage is more of an issue there because of the tiny af capture points which are problems within themselves, I did mention AoE creep being more of an issue. Imagine if you didn't have to have a team fight inside of a capture objective that was smaller than the radius of a Scourge AoE or, in this case, about the same size or slightly bigger than the radius of Rampage 5 for Warrior.

 

This was quite the wall of text...I apologize for that.

[Dadnir.5038]

> @"apharma.3741" said:

> TLDR: Classes stack to 25 might too fast and too easily which makes those classes really really strong. No class should be hitting 25 might alone.

>

> No, you, stop typing, stop trying to say "this one class/build". NO.

 

I think this is the most accurate answer here. Might have become to cheap and easy to get. The issue is not how strong professions are but how easy it is to get to 25 might alone in a short amount of time. And it's true for all professions.

[Kumouta.4985]

warrior? you mean the same class that gets completely bodied by a smidge of boon corrupt and damage

[Mbelch.9028]

> @"Kumouta.4985" said:

> warrior? you mean the same class that gets completely bodied by a smidge of boon corrupt and damage

 

This. Newbies have a hard time vs good warriors. Experienced players don't. Plus, if you're up against a really good warrior, like Helio or Althume or Kronos, you know better than to engage them on their terms. Or if you're new, you don't, and then create threads on forums.

[Curennos.9307]

> @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > > Cauz balance man! Don't you know that by now?

> > > > It's normal to have an elite like rampage on such low cd while spamming cc with dmg, meanwhile other transformation like Lich have double the double the cooldown less dmg and less stab up time. Also all that telegraphated argument things kitten eviscerate 3/4s with quickness even less arcing slice 0.5s where's the long telegraphated thing?Oh you mean the axe auto chain 0.25s, instant then 1.25s chain cmon let's be serious here, war dmg is busted always was always will be. If you count in the dmg modifiers you're set. War never died just got overshadow by other power creep, the dmg is still insane, no doubt about it. Dont even come up with no mobility argument because it's kitten. Embrace the power creep man reroll war, o you got prob with condies not worry u got a stunbreak 6 condi rem right there ;) cleasing ire in case u want to clean more =)

> > >

> > > Eviscerate is unaffected by Quickness, go ahead and test it yourself. This is also implying Warrior even has a consistent means of Quickness, which it doesn't, when not running Frenzy which no one does because its not exactly worth taking over other cooldowns for sustain/clearing conditions.

> > >

> > > Also you contradict yourself immediately by saying Warrior damage always was busted but then say it just got "overshadowed by other power creep" which is to say that it isn't busted compared to the damage of other classes like Soulbeast or Holo or whichever else you might compare it to.

> > >

> > > As for mobility yeah they have a number of mobility skills that allows them to cover some significant distance. Unless they get hit with an immob in the middle of gs5 (no it doesn't get cleared by Warrior's Sprint in that scenario because the skill was already used and Rush has no evade frames) or CC'd in the middle of sword 2 and gs3 doesn't cover a lot of distance and Bull's Charge is typically best saved for either an "oh kitten" disengage moment or for actual use as CC/set up damage.

> > >

> > > Also Cleansing Ire only clears 1 condi per adrenaline bar and that is only if the Burst skills *hits* an enemy. Things like Cleansing Ire, similar to Adrenal Health, do not proc if the burst skill is evaded, misses, dodged, blocked or invuln'd. With the exception of Adrenal Health still activating even if Full Counter doesn't actually hit anything, invuln, block, evade or otherwise.

> > >

> > > > @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > > > Shave down dagger3 (higher CD), bull charge (CC - evade - decent damage - mobility skill. Pick two), and rampage. Change tether to give 1 might the fight three ticks, 2 might the next three ticks, and 3 might the last 2 ticks. Slightly increase durations. Something with a ramp up or burst window to be played around.

> > > >

> > > > Honestly, I'm not sure how to deal with Rampage. It seems like the kind of thing that is ridiculously OP or too weak to use. I don't like how strong the use of the skill is - no matter how long the cooldown is, it's very strong while 'active'. Maybe a combination of CD increases, damage nerfs to skills, lower CD on skills? More uses out of the skills when you pop the elite, but less impact and less use of the elite itself.

> > >

> > > Why put a higher CD on dagger 3? Dagger is already only used as a means of CC chaining with other skills rather than for damage. Bull's Charge? Really? Pick two? Okay because this skill is an issue despite having a longer cast time than Shield Bash, even at point blank range and is especially easy to dodge if used at a longer distance than that. As for Magebane...maybe? Except compare it to another class that is capable of high might gain with decent (or rather better) uptime, Herald, and we run into the consistent problem of many people not acknowledging other classes in regards to their "balance" suggestions for [insert class to complain about here].

> > >

> > > As for Rampage...eh? I mean sure I guess its on a shorter CD and has 3 CC skills. One of which is a very telegraphed leap (Rampage 5) another is a very telegraphed boulder toss (Rampage 4) and the third is the kick which is meh. You're probably only going to land it if you land the others or have quickness applied to you from some other means. As for dealing with Rampage in an actual fight, if you're 1v1 you know which skills to look out for and they are, as stated before, very obviously telegraphed so if you're in a 1v1 situation or even if you're outnumbered in a 1v2 situation you can still watch out for those animations and avoid being CC chained by Rampage skills by avoiding at least one of those skills.

> >

> > The fact that I'm sayin warrior dmg got overshadowed by other power creep does not mean it's not busted. Everything in the game should be nerfed, soulbeast damage, holo, warrior etc If it was for me i would cut down ferocity and power on everything. The power creep of every class, has transformed this game into half life to oneshot pvp or condi overload or immortal bunkers, that is not healthy for the game.

>

> You realize class balance pertains to how a class is compared to other classes in the game, correct? Of course this is a Warrior thread but when we are bringing balance into the discussion you have to measure what you are suggesting or what you are referencing against everything else that it goes up against in the game. For sure there is power creep in the game, I don't deny that one bit, my issue was that not only are you pointing out these things as "issues" when they are most certainly not, it is also that you don't have the greatest grasp of the class itself just based around your misunderstanding as to how Quickness applies to Eviscerate. Which it doesn't, as I said.

>

>

> > @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > > @"KryTiKaL.3125" said:

> > > > @"NecroSummonsMors.7816" said:

> > > > Cauz balance man! Don't you know that by now?

> > > > It's normal to have an elite like rampage on such low cd while spamming cc with dmg, meanwhile other transformation like Lich have double the double the cooldown less dmg and less stab up time. Also all that telegraphated argument things kitten eviscerate 3/4s with quickness even less arcing slice 0.5s where's the long telegraphated thing?Oh you mean the axe auto chain 0.25s, instant then 1.25s chain cmon let's be serious here, war dmg is busted always was always will be. If you count in the dmg modifiers you're set. War never died just got overshadow by other power creep, the dmg is still insane, no doubt about it. Dont even come up with no mobility argument because it's kitten. Embrace the power creep man reroll war, o you got prob with condies not worry u got a stunbreak 6 condi rem right there ;) cleasing ire in case u want to clean more =)

> > >

> > > Eviscerate is unaffected by Quickness, go ahead and test it yourself. This is also implying Warrior even has a consistent means of Quickness, which it doesn't, when not running Frenzy which no one does because its not exactly worth taking over other cooldowns for sustain/clearing conditions.

> > >

> > > Also you contradict yourself immediately by saying Warrior damage always was busted but then say it just got "overshadowed by other power creep" which is to say that it isn't busted compared to the damage of other classes like Soulbeast or Holo or whichever else you might compare it to.

> > >

> > > As for mobility yeah they have a number of mobility skills that allows them to cover some significant distance. Unless they get hit with an immob in the middle of gs5 (no it doesn't get cleared by Warrior's Sprint in that scenario because the skill was already used and Rush has no evade frames) or CC'd in the middle of sword 2 and gs3 doesn't cover a lot of distance and Bull's Charge is typically best saved for either an "oh kitten" disengage moment or for actual use as CC/set up damage.

> > >

> > > Also Cleansing Ire only clears 1 condi per adrenaline bar and that is only if the Burst skills *hits* an enemy. Things like Cleansing Ire, similar to Adrenal Health, do not proc if the burst skill is evaded, misses, dodged, blocked or invuln'd. With the exception of Adrenal Health still activating even if Full Counter doesn't actually hit anything, invuln, block, evade or otherwise.

> > >

> > > > @"Curennos.9307" said:

> > > > Shave down dagger3 (higher CD), bull charge (CC - evade - decent damage - mobility skill. Pick two), and rampage. Change tether to give 1 might the fight three ticks, 2 might the next three ticks, and 3 might the last 2 ticks. Slightly increase durations. Something with a ramp up or burst window to be played around.

> > > >

> > > > Honestly, I'm not sure how to deal with Rampage. It seems like the kind of thing that is ridiculously OP or too weak to use. I don't like how strong the use of the skill is - no matter how long the cooldown is, it's very strong while 'active'. Maybe a combination of CD increases, damage nerfs to skills, lower CD on skills? More uses out of the skills when you pop the elite, but less impact and less use of the elite itself.

> > >

> > > Why put a higher CD on dagger 3? Dagger is already only used as a means of CC chaining with other skills rather than for damage. Bull's Charge? Really? Pick two? Okay because this skill is an issue despite having a longer cast time than Shield Bash, even at point blank range and is especially easy to dodge if used at a longer distance than that. As for Magebane...maybe? Except compare it to another class that is capable of high might gain with decent (or rather better) uptime, Herald, and we run into the consistent problem of many people not acknowledging other classes in regards to their "balance" suggestions for [insert class to complain about here].

> > >

> > > As for Rampage...eh? I mean sure I guess its on a shorter CD and has 3 CC skills. One of which is a very telegraphed leap (Rampage 5) another is a very telegraphed boulder toss (Rampage 4) and the third is the kick which is meh. You're probably only going to land it if you land the others or have quickness applied to you from some other means. As for dealing with Rampage in an actual fight, if you're 1v1 you know which skills to look out for and they are, as stated before, very obviously telegraphed so if you're in a 1v1 situation or even if you're outnumbered in a 1v2 situation you can still watch out for those animations and avoid being CC chained by Rampage skills by avoiding at least one of those skills.

> >

> > Just because I am suggesting changes to warrior does not mean I am totally lacking in thoughts concerning other classes. But this is a warrior thread and it really isn't efficient nor feasible to address every single lil thing outside warrior.

> >

> > As for dagger3, because it's a 12 sec stun, basically, and the low CD means you can miss it and not suffer too harshly. Mind you I dont want the CD doubled - maybe 15 sec or so. It has a job with a lil bit of damage on the side (every bit helps but w/e). It does that job /very/ well. A little too well, imo. Obviously you can't use dagger3 as a burst damage skill because it just ISN'T - I can't use skills that don't heal to heal, but that doesn't mean they're bad, perfectly balanced, what have you.

> >

> > As for bull charge, you're narrowing the focus too much. It's the opposite of dagger3. Alone, every single thing the skill does is fine. The issue is that it doesn't do /just/ that. It's not an absolutely godly CC, nor is it S tier damage, or super fast cast, or totally lacking in telegraph...but that's not the point - it does a LOT Of things and it does them pretty darn well. Sort of like all meta builds. Anyway. Does the skill REALLY have to have evade, gapclose/gapmaker, leap finisher, damage (1300 tooltip, nothing to sneeze at), low CD (24 sec traited). Does the slightly higher cast time and 4 sec of additional cooldown time justify all that? Either a ton of other skills are severely underpowered, or something is up with bull's charge.

> >

> > My beef with rampage is w/the impact of the skills (and you get stab the entire time!) It's either you completely negate them or get chunked (the times when your boulder gets sucked into a void somewhere aside). Forcing opponents to use up defenses is just as valuable as actually hitting them with a skill, and what's what rampage does. 3/5, maybe 4/5 of the skills available do that. I say 3/5 and maybe 4/5 etc because it's debatable about the AA and the #2 kick, but even those hurt. It's very similar to bull charge in some regards. What resources can we expect an opponent be forced to use up/allocate to 'deal' with whatever we're doing at any given moment? Rampage + it's cooldown means it has a much, much higher cost for whoever you're facing to deal with than the other options and it can be made to run opponents dry of defensives pretty often. Of course, too often, imo. What is the user giving up to use the skill + impact of the skill (damage, support, etc) + what options does the opponent have/what options are the opponents forced to give up.

> >

> > And ofc, I am all for the removal of that quickness on swap rune. Causes massive amounts of trouble, imo.

>

> I think you mean its a 12 second CD stun, correct? You worded that rather strangely. I think you're overestimating the dagger skills quite a bit. While helpful and while powerful when used appropriately that doesn't make them overtuned. My point in pointing out the lack of damage on dagger is that, as a whole, dagger hits very weakly now and not just that one skill you referenced. Its very...meh in terms of pressuring an enemy outside of actually landing the stun effect from dagger 3. Boonrip on Spellbreaker hasn't been strong enough for a while now to really impact *that* heavily against things like Firebrand, Boonbeast and at this point now Scrapper. You get better boon rip/corrupt from Necro, thats why Spellbreaker has been falling off with recent meta changes and recent seasons. It still has a presence but not nearly that of other classes to take over Spellbreaker.

>

> Bull's Charge does a lot, sure, but if it *didn't* imagine where that would put Warrior against other classes? Not in a balanced place. Remove the evade? You'll just get range CC'd in the middle of the movement distance. Remove the CC? Its just a second Rush, just as telegraphed, that happens to get categorized as a Physical skill. Remove/Reduce the movement distance? Its just a worse or second Shield Bash. (Shield Bash = 3/4 sec cast time vs Bull's Charge = 1 sec cast time) that you can *still* get CC'd out of.

>

> To be honest about Rampage, as useful as people have found it in PvP I can't really say that I've had *that* much issue against it. In sPvP or WvW. If I'm in a 1v1 with a Warrior and I see Rampage get popped I just go "K" and either evade the important CC's or go full trade mode depending on what CDs are available and if its necessary to waste them. While Rampage has Damage Reduction and pulsing Stability the Warrior is also losing out on their utility skills. Meaning no Endure Pain (unless Defy Pain procs), no Balanced Stance (unless Last Stand procs) and no condi clears like in the case of Shake It Off. And even if they end Rampage and then immediately clear condis or use those cooldowns to recover then they just blew their important CDs for sustain which leaves them open for more pressure from you. *Maybe* it could do with an increase to its CD, honestly it wouldn't hurt my Warrior in the least bit but I genuinely question what and how people complain about some skills because typically they either get it wrong or their suggestion is just unwarranted due to their own frustration in the moment and they just get stuck on that thought.

>

> Just to give an example of what I mean from a perspective I can get behind when it comes to complaints. I dislike Mirage and its mechanics with a *passion*. There are just things wrong with Mirage that are silly and ridiculous and they shouldn't be included in the game design for a PvP environment. *However* I'm not going onto the forums or ingame and nitpicking at things that are *not* the problem because I lack an understanding of how the class works, I look to actively pinpoint the *actual* problems and try to talk about those. For instance, many people complain about the amount of clones, the amount of damage from both condi and power that Mirage can do and its sustain paired with its mobility. Now yes those are all understandably things people would find issue with...if they are just being impulsive and frustrated and not thinking, sure. Mirages problems don't stem from its damage, its mobility or its clones (though honestly yeeeah that could use some toning down but thats not the biggest problem). The biggest problem with Mirage, from what I've gathered from not just fighting it but also having played it to understand it, is that it is *the only class* that has an active and frequent ability to just "nope" what a CC is used for setting up without using a stunbreak (no I don't mean Elusive Mind). The problem stems from them being able to use Mirage Cloak (again I am *not* talking about Elusive Mind) while CC'd. Knocked down, stunned, immobilized, dazed, etc. They can just tap the dodge button, apply Mirage Cloak and even if you somehow managed to finally land a CC on the Mirage they just don't even need to worry about it. Now granted they did recently reduce the evade timeframe on Mirage's dodge to that of every other class but I am still not convinced its enough to quell the problem just as the 1 second reduction in stealth duration from Silent Scope on DE just hasn't at all fixed the perma stealthing problem.

>

> A lot of the issues people have with Warriors these days does quite genuinely stem from a "learn to play" problem especially in regards to discussions about damage because while, yes, I agree that the game has been slowly power creeped over the years (in sPvP its been more AoE creep than anything) Warrior damage compared to that of Holo, Soulbeast, Mirage, Herald, and Deadeye is really *not* the issue here. Calling for nerfs to Warrior damage in a thread in the PvP section of the forums isn't going to suddenly change every other classes damage. If what you want happens, they pay attention to this thread and see "oh Warrior damage is too much" and then nerf the damage or whatever else to their skills that you are asking for then you'd just see the other classes stay the same and Warrior fall deeper into the nerf pits. Thats not productive, thats not helpful...focus on the bigger picture and not the little one that you are pinpoint focused on because you got a little frustrated one night or a few nights because some Warrior annoyed you and you're letting your frustration get the better of you, even if you don't feel frustrated or angry right now...that still carries influence on your decisions afterwards if you don't cool off and take stock of *why* you're actually frustrated in the first place. With yourself? With the game? Or with something else?

>

> To be honest...in regards to sPvP I can see how Rampage is more of an issue there because of the tiny af capture points which are problems within themselves, I did mention AoE creep being more of an issue. Imagine if you didn't have to have a team fight inside of a capture objective that was smaller than the radius of a Scourge AoE or, in this case, about the same size or slightly bigger than the radius of Rampage 5 for Warrior.

>

> This was quite the wall of text...I apologize for that.

 

Yes, 12 sec CD. Happens on a laptop with small screen + 2 hrs of sleep. And, maybe I'm not being clear on this, but that's what I'm trying to get at. I think dagger 3 is too strong when used properly, and is thus deserving of a 3 sec CD increase. Little taps of a carpentry hammer instead of the giant sledgehammer that is nerf, etc etc. You're right that dagger's damage is otherwise lacking when compared to the other skills warr has, yes, though that downside is minimized by the might uptime offered by Tether (hence why I also suggested a small nerf to that as well)

 

As for Bull's Charge, you didn't mention the possibility of shaving the damage. You're right - and I think you've outlined why either shaving or applying a bit more hefty of a nerf hammer to the skill's damage is the obvious choice here. It has a 1200-1750 tooltip (depending on mightstacks and Insight). Do you think warr would fall out of the meta or struggle significantly more if Bull's Charge had reduced (or even zero) damage, dagger 3 got a 3 sec increase, and rampage had...idk, let's go with a 20 sec CD increase (72(90) with strength, so it'd be 88(110)). If warr would be fine without something, why does it have it in the first place? I get the whole 'bigger picture' PoV, but bigger pictures are always made up of many smaller ones. Idk, maybe I'm reading a little bit too much into your use of 'bigger picture' there, but I don't think that's sufficient to neglect smaller, more focused changes - if I have indeed interpreted this correctly.

 

I'm a little iffy on the whole 'losing out of other utilities'. It's not hard to NOT use Rampage right off the bat, in which case you won't really be losing out on as much. You'll just be doing something else while waiting for other CDs (and using Signet before rampage is a thing as well - ofc it can be boonripped, but that's just 'counterplay to counterplay').

 

I don't want to get too off track here, but DE stealth duration on dodge went from 3 sec to 1sec(ish? Hard to tell with how GW2 lists some tooltips. Feels around 1 sec. Anyway). With the recent DE changes, for the first time ever I've had people ask me to switch off my rifle DE to 'something actually useful'. That was at the beginning of the game too, mind you :) So it wasn't like they'd seen me play and thought I sucked. Sometimes changes require big picture changes, yes, but there is definitely something to be said for small taps of the hammer. I can't comment much on WvW deadeye because ESO's Cyrodiil has murdered any chance I have of enjoying it so I don't really go in there, but the stealth reduction has defeinitely done /something/.

 

Lastly, I'm torn - I don't think suggestions should be 'adjusted' to compensate for developer incompetence. I like to think they're all swell folks who will read every post, instead of just skimming everything and going 'oh ye, warr needs dmg nerf, let's reduce FC dmg to 0 and reduce arcing slice by 50%'.

 

In short, small problems are still problems that should be addressed. The above aside, I think warr is relatively fine but could use some small tunings, and could still use some buffs to lesser used traits (why in the HECK revenge counter is still a GM trait with a 20% buff to a ~300 tooltip FC...I don't even). Also note, I prefer changes instead of nerfs - for example, Tether. I'd rather it have a ramp-up instead of a consistant 2 might per tick. Same amount of might over time, same duration, but more mechanically interesting to play with and around.

 

Edit: Forgot, also yes, GW2's limited modes are also a pain, but we don't speak of such things. Shhhh...

[Turk.5460]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> Don't try to 1v1 war. Don't chase a war. Than you won't die to a war

 

According to the Warrior forums, Warrior is the absolute worst 1v1 profession. :eyeroll:

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

> @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> Because axe chop is NOT instant cast, that means you need to improve your reaction time

> Because axe chop isn't untargettable phantasms or Ranger auto-attack

> Because Eviscerate has obvious tells

> Because Warrior can't teleport to ledges

> Because you could literally run in a straight line while fighting back and chop does no damage

> Because Warrior CC has HIGH CASTING TIMES that you can walk in straight line while baiting Warrior dodges and stun breaks

> And because Warrior can't simply instant cast while evading or bait dodge while evading like obnoxious rangers and mesmers

>

> P.S This game is ABOUT trading cds and dodges. Effective HP is garbage (Adrenal Health + Heavy armor toughness + HP), look at how easily scrapper gets bursted vs. coordinated people. If you're having trouble bursting a Warrior down, your build isn't good enough at baiting stun breaks and dodges (because Warrior cds are the easiest to bait out in the game) OR you are not good enough yet and need to improve.

>

> They HAVE to have high honest damage. Give it time and you will get used to them. Though, there is one skill that nobody has caught upon yet that is actually really strong in sPvP though if you figure out how to deal with retal.

>

> I agree that Warrior is much stronger in sPvP than in WvW and depending on the Warrior skill level they actually can be okay, but see here's the thing Warrior is at a point where only a damage nerf will be fine if they were objectively OP.

>

> TL;DR LEGIT learn how dodge count and defensive cds work and you will see that Warrior is the least of your worries when other classes can be a lot worse even though Warrior has so much damage right now if played right. And it's OKAY to lose point for a bit so you can ACTUALLY win the fight in sPvP.

 

Just wanted to point out that with quickness, Evicerate's tell is almost non existent, as same for the CC abilities....just saying.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"BlackTruth.6813" said:

> Because axe chop is NOT instant cast, that means you need to improve your reaction time

> Because axe chop isn't untargettable phantasms or Ranger auto-attack

> Because Eviscerate has obvious tells

> Because Warrior can't teleport to ledges

> Because you could literally run in a straight line while fighting back and chop does no damage

> Because Warrior CC has HIGH CASTING TIMES that you can walk in straight line while baiting Warrior dodges and stun breaks

> And because Warrior can't simply instant cast while evading or bait dodge while evading like obnoxious rangers and mesmers

 

And yet despite this Spellbreaker is currently the highest performing build in ranked post balance patch, with lots of other mains flocking to it and reaching heights they've never reached before like Shorts dropping mesmer for warrior.

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"Mbelch.9028" said:

> > @"Kumouta.4985" said:

> > warrior? you mean the same class that gets completely bodied by a smidge of boon corrupt and damage

>

> This. Newbies have a hard time vs good warriors. Experienced players don't. Plus, if you're up against a really good warrior, like Helio or Althume or Kronos, you know better than to engage them on their terms. Or if you're new, you don't, and then create threads on forums.

 

Yep, new players will come to the forums. Try asking in game and you never know what you get. Here in the forums it's regulated.

Also, when you gonna put that video up with me in it dying to you when you are outnumbered? I recall you saying I know how it turns how, so I guess that was the implied result.