Zexanima.7851 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Since my idea about fast hands was not to popular what do you think is the most needed change to warriors? Personally I think the profession is way to dependent on discipline and changes need to be made around it to open up build variety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zexanima.7851 Posted April 1, 2019 Author Share Posted April 1, 2019 Discipline has way too many useful traits packed into one trait line. I think it would help to replace or swap traits in other lines with ones from discipline to promote taking other lines more. (I still want fast hands baseline, I'm allowed to dream.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edge.8724 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Honestly, there's too much things to change with the profession that I couldn't name only one thing. Arms is still useless except for very niche condi builds. Tactic is useless as a whole. In Strenght, traits like Body Blow and Brave Stride needs to be changed. Berserker is dead. Either revive it or change it. "Oh, but it's meta in raid" In this game, if you're a warrior, people only really wants you for your banners, nothing else. Spellbreaker has also weird things in it. Things like No Escape and Enchantment collapse are uninteresting. (Might be subjective though) Weapon skills needs rework, swords, longbow, warhorn and rifle are all too clunky to be used. Utility skills are weird... Banners are extremely boring and are really really made only for other people. It's just a passive stat boost. I'd rather have a signet. Shout seems weak. For Great Justice and shake it off are fine though. On My Mark seems outdated. Fear Me has a too long cooldown for what it does. Stances suffer the same problem as Fear Me, too long cooldown for what they do. Soubeast have better stances in term of what a "stance" really is. Berserker stance and Balance Stance are really really short in duration. Even 6 or 7 seconds would be really more usefull than they are right now. Meditations... 2 of them are really usefull, but 2 of them are extremely useless... Sight beyond Sight does not enough things to be worth taking and seems be more PvP focused. Imminent threath has a too long cooldown for the too short duration of the taunt. And even with that... Winds of Disenchantment should have a little cooldown reduction. 70 or 60 Seconds or something around that. Natutal Healing is kind of punishing to use... Gaining Attacker's Insight is easy without using it. Also, removing yourself 7 boons to only gain 5 stacks of Attacker's Insight does not seems fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTruth.6813 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 Baseline fast hands. Not too broken, not too bad. Then we can decide which traits are TRULY underperforming (It's really just tactics ATM, unblockable signet is actually not bad on a power build) As long as they do not give Warrior instant cast burst damage, stealth, or non-endurance evade spam, baseline fast hands should be enough of a balanced change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melandru.3876 Posted April 1, 2019 Share Posted April 1, 2019 nerf discipline and warrior can kiss pve meta goodby with the banner nerf, the extra dps the warrior brings to a 5 man group is allready barely worth it (only worth it with power classes) nerf discipline, warrior personnal dps gets a hit then bye bye warrior, better off taking a third dps class for higher party-dps > @"Belorn.2659" said: > There looks to be some confusion over the exact wording of the upcoming patch notes, but I think the most accurate interpretation is for raiding: > > Major nerfs: > Banners loses -42% of the stats gain to the group. > The warrior itself looses -22% of banners stats and twice a much DPS loss to banner cast time. > Winds of Disenchantment reduce DPS to zero while being used, and can't be used in cases like dhuum. > > Minor improvements: > Banners can no longer be mistakenly be used when someone intend to resurrect a player > Possible easier to move banner placement as a fight progress > Battle Standard can cause damage. Relevance is unknown. > > To be fair, banners was the single highest DPS increase in the game, with banners alone calculated to provide about around 13% dps increase per player. ( ). > > With some simplification, If we assume the old standard pug meta of 2 druids, 2 chrono, 1 bs and 5 dps what we get is strength banner represented alone 65% of an additional power DPS player. For condi we are talking about a bit above half 37.5%. > > With the nerfs, what anet did was to bring power down to the same level as old condi, ie 37.5% with 5 power dps. For condi we are talking about 21%. This makes bringing a warrior for fights a question if the warrior personal dps + banners dps is higher or lower than an additional dps role. Here we can use gw2raidar to get a bit of a hint for specific bosses (https://www.gw2raidar.com/). > > Lets use some very loose counting and rounding the numbers a bit, and I will also start with MO as it is the closest we have to a golem. The average power dps player has around 23k dps where about 3k came from banners. The average banner slave personal dps is 19k, where 2k came from banners. The total damage banners give is then 5*3 +2 = 17k, giving the banner slave a total dps of 19-2 + 5*3+2 = 34k dps vs the 23 -3 = 20k that an additional dps role would bring to the table. 34 is a bigger number than 20, so a banner slave is better when paired with 5 power dps players. With the nerf we can simply half that banners effect making the warrior doing 19-2 + (5*3 +2)/2 = 25.5. 25.5 is also a bigger number than 20. > > Now for the other bosses you get more noise, but lets just decide from a glance on Samarog that a dps role should hit around 13k and a bs around 10k. The banner brought 1.5k for the dps and 1k for the bs. 9 + 1.5*5 + 1 = 17.5k vs 11.5k. With the nerf the bs does 13.25k vs 11.5k that a additional power role would bring. > > What about condi? Lets start with golem cairn: 20k average for condi dps and 14k for average condi banner. Banners bring in this case half the effectiveness, so we get 1.5k per dps and 1k for the warrior. 13+1.5*5 +1 = 21.5k vs 18.5k that an additional dps role would bring. With the nerf the warrior does 13 + (15*5+1)/2 = 17 vs 18.5k that a dps role bring. 17k is less than 18.5k, so in cairn you should no longer bring a banner warrior if you use 5 condi dps and 5 support. > > I was about to do the same calculations for matt which is a more complicated condition boss, but the numbers are basically identical. > > The margins and additional consideration is when you consider groups with fewer support roles and the dps from support roles. The general rule of banner slaves always being good is not as true as it once was, but it is likely still true for power encounter. For condition encounters I would claim that it depends on the group. ^ now reduce warrior personnal dps by even 1k, which is very minor, and check the results yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skotlex.7580 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 I am of the opinion that discipline is the ideal trait line for using two melee weapon sets. Without discipline, warrior plays a lot more like the other classes, in the sense that one would use a combat weapon set, and the second would either be ranged or utility (used to disengage, or for movement). Thus, if discipline is as popular as it is, it's because players prefer having all melee weapon skills available on short notice. I would personally improve the ranged weapons warrior has, they are pretty meh, which might be also why they aren't as used. I would also change around arms so that it's usable for condition or power builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Warrior has alot that could change but i truely think Berserker is in a need of a rework. The same as other HoT specs got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.5684 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 Berserker, arms and tactics all require changes. I voted other, cuz they all are equally struggling. Arms need to provide more damage to become an alternative to either strength, SB and/or discipline. Tactics need to work better helping support builds. I think this will require rework of warhorn as well (again...). Berserker, damage is there (probably a slight buff in PvE), but it needs better sustainability options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > Baseline fast hands. Not too broken, not too bad. > > Then we can decide which traits are TRULY underperforming (It's really just tactics ATM, unblockable signet is actually not bad on a power build) > > As long as they do not give Warrior instant cast burst damage, stealth, or non-endurance evade spam, baseline fast hands should be enough of a balanced change. lmao, funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KittyRiv.5291 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 I feel like warrior has already been balanced around having fast hands and that is a primary reason why warrior doesn't work in a competitive game mode without it. I wish the skill balance team would acknowledge this and just make fast hands baseline. Warrior feels very stale at the moment and part of the reason is because there is a lack of build diversity. Almost all builds are going to be taking defense, discipline, a great sword, and a shield. If fast hands was baseline they could start tweaking other trait lines to introduce some diversity and pull warrior out of the trap it is currently stuck in. Their recent updates with banners was a misfire in bringing any relevant changes to the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melandru.3876 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 > @"KittyRiv.5291" said: > I feel like warrior has already been balanced around having fast hands and that is a primary reason why warrior doesn't work in a competitive game mode without it. I wish the skill balance team would acknowledge this and just make fast hands baseline. Warrior feels very stale at the moment and part of the reason is because there is a lack of build diversity. Almost all builds are going to be taking defense, discipline, a great sword, and a shield. If fast hands was baseline they could start tweaking other trait lines to introduce some diversity and pull warrior out of the trap it is currently stuck in. > > Their recent updates with banners was a misfire in bringing any relevant changes to the class. defense is not used anymore tho, check the builds. they use str/disc/spb if you honnestly believe that it is only fast hands that maks disc builds good then i have bad news for you. -warrior sprint -brawler recovery -versatile power -burst mastery ^is what makes disc warrior good, so no it's not based around fast hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melandru.3876 Posted April 2, 2019 Share Posted April 2, 2019 but hey, look at this lol > @"BlackTruth.6813" said: > Weapon master subclass for an expansion, 3 weapon swaps. Could literally be like no added mechanic other than 3 weapon swaps and I will be happy. But sad that it won't be realistic anytime soon. The new weapon is.. Warrior doesn't get one. And then you you get traits that incentivize swapping to specific weapon (for example, 2 attacks become unblockable when you swap to Rifle). > > Though the OP's idea would not be bad at launch. Nowadays, there are too many blinds and evades to make a SLOW casting time build or expansion rather in this case relatively work. > > make fast hands baseline, and then in 4 months 3 weapon swaps will not be enough, make it 4 we want more! i demand 4! i need my rifle, i need my axe/shield, i need my dagger/warhorn and i need my greatsword. this is perfectly balanced because warrior is designed to swap weapons very fast. we need to adapt to the situation very fast esp with the evade and block spam only real warriors knw what i'm taling about, amirite@BlackTruth.6813 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sneakytails.5629 Posted April 3, 2019 Share Posted April 3, 2019 I dont think its just one thing but overall Berserker needs the Scrapper treatment. If i kill another new player on a Power Bersker with Sw/Axe-LB I am gonna cry. Its like squishing kittens with clown shoes on. Its one of the top memes in WvW right now, and has been for a while now, not like when I started. After that weapon tweaks, traits, and some updated skill animations are in order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cloud Windfoot Omega.7485 Posted April 4, 2019 Share Posted April 4, 2019 i meant change berserk, its dire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannir.4132 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 I would change Discipline before Berserker because it keys directly into how Berserker performs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rotten Bones.2391 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 I play with high ping and I'd like to see my leaps hit more often, other than that I'm happy with warrior's current state in pvp and wvw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackTruth.6813 Posted April 5, 2019 Share Posted April 5, 2019 No instant cast, no more evade while attacking other than whirlwind slash, no multi-purpose weapon like Soulbeast GS. But.. here's to hoping the game stays honest enough so Warrior wouldn't be at a point that they need any of the above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 We have alot of weapons that can use a rework and arent so much viable anymore as they used to,speaking from a pvp/wvw perspective. Mace main and OH - No idea how,its just never used and i dont see a reason why to when hamm does everything better and in full aoe besides 5. Axe Oh 5 needs a rework,the dmg is fine i think but a whirling axe steal from thief is even better than our actual whirl since it has what it needs, Projectile reflect. Longbow could use some work,never being used anymore either and if it is its for pve only,we lack a proper condi or hybrid build in general currently when speaking about pvp/wvw. Atleast increase projectile velocity and give the AA a base burn effect,short duration a second or so.Remove the trait Burning Arrows in tactics and add in a completely new trait. Sword Oh needs a complete rework. Sword main has an identity crisis not knowing if its meant for power or condi,its meant for hybrid i know,but we have no option for a proper viable build to make that work.When you run it,its on power and only for the leap - immob - final thrust.Where the aa cleave is severely lacking and the burst never being used to its full duration but only to land immob. GS - Rush,turn this into Fiery gs rush animation with the small leap at the end,because Fiery gs actually lands and goes where it needs to go,unlike rush.The small leap at the end of it really helps with connecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferus.3165 Posted April 6, 2019 Share Posted April 6, 2019 > @"Zexanima.7851" said: > Discipline has way too many useful traits packed into one trait line. I think it would help to replace or swap traits in other lines with ones from discipline to promote taking other lines more. (I still want fast hands baseline, I'm allowed to dream.) yeah discipline is kinda viable ... nerf please, should not be stronger than tactics is right now.... a thousand things need to be changed for warrior... greatsword skill #2 and #4 and #5 need a rework. Sword f1, #3, #4 and #5 need a rework. Those skills are clunky, easy to avoid and/or don't hit anything and have no purpose when compared to their long cast times/cds. mace #2 (block) needs a cd reduction. (mesmer cepter #2 is range+ has an additional evade+ deals 5 times more dmg+ has 6/4.8 sec cd compared to 10/8 sec cd+ won't miss if the target runs behind you...) utility skills. warrior has some that are useable. but most are trash. look at berserker utilities, even if you'd decrease the cd on every berserker utility by 50% they would still suck. 4 bleeding with a skill... or a knockback with 3/4 sec cast time in melee range or the jump without range... maybe the stunbreak would be fine but berserker would still suck and noone would play as berserker. banners need a reduced casting time now that they last for a shorter time and you have to summon them more often (ult banner cast time reduction only in pve) + many other things arms needs some minor rework for some traits only, because there are some really good traits in that line already. tactics needs a complete overhaul. garbage as it is right now. And overall the "clunkyness" of warrior needs to be adressed. almost every gapcloser has a huge aftercast and many of them often miss the target entirely while being in range. Give greatsword #5 the animation of ranger gs leap because that one always hits (and even hits 3 targets and not just one, minus the evade because that is broken). Axe f1 and sword #2 need help aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pati.2438 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Berserker cause of ist unplayable in pvp. Cause of two reasons. Near no Stability (Maybe lesser balance stance but then you have 0 condition remove) and no good adrenal Health stacking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 > @"Pati.2438" said: > Berserker cause of ist unplayable in pvp. Cause of two reasons. Near no Stability (Maybe lesser balance stance but then you have 0 condition remove) and no good adrenal Health stacking. Tbh,Berserk is the king of stabi and breaking cc's with eternal champ pulsing and every cc break granting 3 sec stabi aswell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InsaneQR.7412 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 Make fast hands baseline to untie discipline from most use builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted April 7, 2019 Share Posted April 7, 2019 > @"InsaneQR.7412" said: > Make fast hands baseline to untie discipline from most use builds. Disc adds more than fast hands only,the entire line is too good to lose.If they make fast hands baseline,i'd still run disc for Brawler recovery ( Remove conditions when you swap weapons. ) + Burst mastery ( Burst skills deal more damage, grant swiftness, and restore a portion of adrenaline spent. ) + the passive Versatile power ( Gain might on weapon swap. Burst skills recharge 15% faster. ), It really won't make me ditch disc over any other line,theres no need to make fast hands baseline,i rather have they added the speed granted on melee to range aswell from warri sprint in disc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melandru.3876 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > @"Pati.2438" said: > > Berserker cause of ist unplayable in pvp. Cause of two reasons. Near no Stability (Maybe lesser balance stance but then you have 0 condition remove) and no good adrenal Health stacking. > > Tbh,Berserk is the king of stabi and breaking cc's with eternal champ pulsing and every cc break granting 3 sec stabi aswell. uhm what eternal champion isn't pulsing stability for like allmost 2 years now (17 may 2017) so your info is a bit outdated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caedmon.6798 Posted April 8, 2019 Share Posted April 8, 2019 > @"melandru.3876" said: > > @"Caedmon.6798" said: > > > @"Pati.2438" said: > > > Berserker cause of ist unplayable in pvp. Cause of two reasons. Near no Stability (Maybe lesser balance stance but then you have 0 condition remove) and no good adrenal Health stacking. > > > > Tbh,Berserk is the king of stabi and breaking cc's with eternal champ pulsing and every cc break granting 3 sec stabi aswell. > > uhm what eternal champion isn't pulsing stability for like allmost 2 years now (17 may 2017) > so your info is a bit outdated Sorry meant to say with eternal champ And balanced stance pulsing.And every cc break granting 3 sec stabi which is super easy to do with headbutt + outrage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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