GW2 is not dying or ending.

[Leo G.4501]

> @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> While I agree that GW2 won't be ending anytime soon, I don't see a point in your MMO comparisons (except maybe Runescape). GW2 is nowhere near the same ballpark as B-rated titles like Secret World or Requiem (is that still online?). WoW, FFXIV, ESO, BDO and to an extent SWTOR are this game's direct competition and what GW2 has to be measured against.

>

 

SWTOR!?

 

Not Blade and Soul? Considering they are kind of sort of competing within the same company that *will* axe a game to keep their other games healthy, and considering how it makes more money...

 

 

[Konig Des Todes.2086]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> So what you're saying is, there is some validity to the rumors that the game is dying. Otherwise, I'd say let the game speak for itself or at the very least not entertain outlandish claims you feel aren't true.

>

> That being said, I'm still waiting for them to put in some of the pieces of content I'm interested in. Been crossing my fingers for a while. Come on, Anet. Shake things up, pls.

 

I said the exact opposite of the rumors having validity. People spouting invalidated rumors can affect people's opinion, and mass opinion affects the sales of things. The rumors have no validity in of themselves, but people believing them will cause the outcome to lean towards those rumors.

 

The more people that believe "the game is dying", the worse sales for the game will be, and the lower the population will become, thus harming the game. It can end up being the rumors that become the root cause, regardless of the validity of those rumors.

 

I don't really entertain outlandish claims, but that doesn't mean I don't acknowledge that outlandish claims unabated will have effect. And this doesn't just go towards sales and profits of products. It's an intrinsic part of human society and human gullibility.

[Leo G.4501]

> @"Konig Des Todes.2086" said:

> > @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > So what you're saying is, there is some validity to the rumors that the game is dying. Otherwise, I'd say let the game speak for itself or at the very least not entertain outlandish claims you feel aren't true.

> >

> > That being said, I'm still waiting for them to put in some of the pieces of content I'm interested in. Been crossing my fingers for a while. Come on, Anet. Shake things up, pls.

>

> I said the exact opposite of the rumors having validity.

 

If all it takes is a rumor that people spread about any MMO for the game to die, I'd say it probably wasn't just the rumors that killed it...which was the point I was making.

 

You wouldn't be wrong in the fact that people are gullible but I think you're off base claiming it's intrinsic. Perhaps initially or for people that don't mature... I may not have a high opinion of human society on the whole but I believe at least some can form their own opinions and there would be others that are willing to listen to those opinions just like they'd listen to any old rumor.

 

Personally, I don't think GW2 is dying but the genre as a whole is drifting into obscurity as advancements in interconnectivity and technology morph the market whole scale.

[mauried.5608]

What does it matter?

Are you going to stop playing the game NOW, because it might die at some future undefined date ?

 

[AlexxxDelta.1806]

> @"Leo G.4501" said:

> > @"AlexxxDelta.1806" said:

> > While I agree that GW2 won't be ending anytime soon, I don't see a point in your MMO comparisons (except maybe Runescape). GW2 is nowhere near the same ballpark as B-rated titles like Secret World or Requiem (is that still online?). WoW, FFXIV, ESO, BDO and to an extent SWTOR are this game's direct competition and what GW2 has to be measured against.

> >

>

> SWTOR!?

>

> Not Blade and Soul? Considering they are kind of sort of competing within the same company that *will* axe a game to keep their other games healthy, and considering how it makes more money...

>

>

 

I wouldn't consider BnS to be direct competitor to GW2 since they are aimed at different target groups within the market. BnS is a big mmo in the asian market but I could never see that p2w cash grab being as popular as any of these other titles in the west. With the exception of BDO (for some reason), east and west have very different preferences in mmos. I can only hope NCsoft makes the same distinctions of course.

 

I was a bit hesitant to include SWTOR because it has fallen from grace over the years. But it still has a giant publisher and the power of the SW franchise behind it.

[Mickey Chi.3178]

I think they just need to put more people on a map to make it seem more crowded, and we can finish group events easier.

PVE is getting harder in areas where no one is seen for hours, this is main reason I think gw2 seems hmmm not as popular as before?

[Dante.1508]

Well at least on my server the populations are far diminished compared to 4 years ago.. There are maps in tyria i go to that never see other players at all.. And this was before the Halloween event.

 

Not dying no but very diminished over the years.

 

Gw2 is its own worst enemy.. Its biggest problem is how much it costs in game to play it.. You either farm your life away like a drone to afford things or buy Gems at an insane price to buy gold.. That over time is self defeating and it shows by the diminishing populations.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

The player base and population is certainly dying down, that's unarguable. Look at the population and activity for WvW, PvP, Raids, Fractals, and even the new map releases. All of it's diminished heavily. The only activity we see is a meta-train here and there on reset, and new maps don't hold interest outside of 2 weeks now. Try placing yourself in LFG to complete an achievement and you'll likely not have 1 person join all day, it is what it is. Even running core Tyria to get Gifts of exploration, one can full complete multiple maps before seeing another player. This is not indicative of a game that's "alive" and/or "well"

 

Now the game is quite big, there is lots to do, especially for new players. Players like this coming in "think" the game is doing well, but the fact remains, these players still likely have years of exploration before hitting the end of the road like hoards of players already have. Bbop.9706 is a perfect example of this, much to do, doesn't care if there are major updates, and been here a year. This doesn't mean the game is alive and well, the population drop dictates the game is on is approaching the end of it's life. By that I mean it will no longer make sense or benefit Anet to release any additional updates (or major updates at that).

 

 

[Obtena.7952]

I just chuckle when people wave the "DYING GAME" banner. In case people haven't noticed, it's normal evolution of a game. The question isn't if it's dying and the decline of a game is never a reason to jump to conclusions about having to change it.

 

Population is definitely important; obviously we want enough people around to be able to do things like Dragonstand, etc ... The real indicator from the business side of 'health' isn't how many people play though .. it's how much the people that do play spend.

[FrigginPaco.4178]

I also get very frustrated when I see the Forums in a frenzy over the perceived decline of the game. However, it's not without *some* merit, after all, those layoffs hit like a very hard sucker punch and massively disrupted player perceptions - to this day I would say. I'm glad to see Anet have taken a number of their "shopping list" items off of the list they set out in April, I believe it was, and that's definitely good.

 

However, the fact that all of the dirty laundry was aired out and many unfortunate truths had to be heard have done the damage we see to the community's trust today. That is currently in attempts at mending with the current Saga, but also on other game modes with the alleged Alliance System changes for WvW and Micro-Seasons for PvP, etc. My constant issue has always been pacing for releases though. That aside, the Jury is still out on Sagas, Alliances are still an ethereal idea and not tangible yet, PvP skill balance is finally under the competitive team's purview (something I thought was always the case?), so... Yeah the pace needs to pick up.

[Eclavdra.8016]

This made me laugh too. I have been playing MMORPG's since then were pen and paper. I see a post almost everyday about every MMO I play/played is dying. My fiancee and myself just bought Gw2, 2 days ago. I also play WoW and ESO.

I wouldn't care if only 100 people still played. As long as the servers are up, I have a few friends and we can play together. I think people grow out of MMO's or started one when they were 14 and now the magic is gone because they have responsibilities, and so do their friends so it seems to them it is dying.

I don't know how long I will play Gw2. I am out of bag and bank space after playing for 2 days and don't see how I will continue without paying a lot of cash for more space. But even if we get to 80 and never play again, I have already gotten my monies worth in the 14 hours I played this weekend.

I am enjoying the game for now, when I don't, I won't play anymore. No dramatic posts telling everyone else the sky is falling because I don't want to play anymore.

[Cristalyan.5728]

> @"ZerotheFang.5890" said:

> i have seen dead mmo's i played firefall, and many other flops that became unplayable do to way to many bots or lack of intrest. i been through Phantasy Star online 1 and 2 server shut down trust me gw2 is alive and well and i still love it and come back to it.

 

Usually I'm not impressed by this kind of topics. I don't need a third party opinion to realize that the game I play is dead or alive. But something in your post made me think:

- You played Firefall. Now Firefall is dead (closed servers)

- You played Phantasy Star 1 - now it is dead too.

- **Now you play GW2**!

 

This started to worry me.

[Arden.7480]

GW2 has some big issues with what it's exactly about, the devs must make a decision what they want to prioritize, as we can only see that PvE gets big updates, so it looks like that GW2 is not dying, but the challenging, WvW, PvP content is.

 

Also this announcement... it kinda proved that the devs don't really want to please WvW or PvP or Raid not even Fractals community, not even a single sound that Legendary weapons set will come...

 

There is so many, many questions that we are basically scared to get answer to.....

 

If you are into story, environment, role-playing GW2 will be the best place for you. But if you come from more challenging games like WoW - GW2 is not a place to find so many ways to challenge yourself.

 

 

[starlinvf.1358]

so its worse then being dead....... Its Zombie Simpsons?

[Fellwitch.4536]

I am going to apply what I do at work (IT Project Mgr) to Guild Wars 2.

 

When we have huge implementations like company mergers or new ERP systems, the other employees (and the management) expect there to be a captain at the head of the ship, who knows where the ship is going. Even if they get lost, the captain still is there and is confident.

 

Unfortunately, the team here seems to be reactive & passive instead of being proactive and having leadership.

This is a horrible downwards spiral and we can see what it has done to other games of this sort (Rift is the most recent, in my opinion).

Communication becomes progressively worse, promised deliverables do not appear, and massive firings as well as the executive mgmt jumping ship happen.

 

I've sank both time and money into Guild Wars 2 and as much as I enjoy it, the signs are on the wall.

Unless they brought in someone with massive personality & leadership, and announced a new expansion was well underway, this ship is going under.

 

 

[thepenmonster.3621]

Nah. It's fine.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"Arden.7480" said:

> GW2 has some big issues with what it's exactly about, the devs must make a decision what they want to prioritize, as we can only see that PvE gets big updates, so it looks like that GW2 is not dying, but the challenging, WvW, PvP content is.

>

> Also this announcement... it kinda proved that the devs don't really want to please WvW or PvP or Raid not even Fractals community, not even a single sound that Legendary weapons set will come...

>

 

I would argue that this doesn't have to be a mutually exclusive choice..... A better design all around would avoid that contention, because too many bespoke solutions for each mode is how that problem gets out of hand in the first place. Or a better design philosophy and approach within each game mode, to get more mileage out of what little content can be made.

 

I also make the argument that the nature of WvW, sPvP and Raids outright prevents them from being happy. They rely too much on the "best in slot" mind set, and goes so far as being counter productive, or even self defeating, with a paradoxical sense of trying to be "the best" while also requiring something better then them to compete against. And having spent enough time in sPvP and WvW, I can easily establish that the majority work on the same psychology as PvE players, just with a different set of obsessions. More importantly, only listening to the Top players of a game mode sounds good on paper, but causes you to ignore the situation in the massive player base "beneath" them. Same going the opposite direction, where the masses don't understand design interaction, and overly fixated on Outcomes; leading them to create the shortest path to it, often at the cost of collateral damage to things around it.

 

A big issue across the board, especially after Raids were released, is that the game doesn't actively play to its own strengths anymore. In fact it fights itself to try and fit in with more conventional game design paradigms that it was fundamentally made to break. Raids are bad, because it rewards/requires a numerical magnitude focused mindset, when the class system was designed around PvP sensibilities of action/counter-action. sPvP is failing by trying to create too much definition between classes and especs, which started shifting soft counters into practical hard counters. WvW is borked because the game mode doesn't know how to handle the scaling problem, and further amplified by the player's clear preference for open field battles. And Openworld PvE's problem is almost never having an opportunity for a dynamic battle on a personal level, which ends up off loading most of the player focus onto the reward system. Fractals is the one thing that does what it needs to do right...... but ends up overstaying its welcome due to repetition from the low number of them, and a scaling system that eventually creates the Raid problem but with fewer solutions.

 

 

And for the record.... calling WoW a Challenging game never meant what people thought it meant. Most of that challenge comes from actively fighting the poorly implemented game mechanics. I'm glad WoW classic took great effort to recreate that old experience as it was in reality, because it helped prove the game's design was NOT the reason it was remembered the way it was. After a month, when the novelty wore off, the player base quickly fell back into its "Normal WoW" habits. And the more adversarial design of the game flow is fostering toxicity rather then cooperation. The player's excessive self-interest is hurting the community building.... and the community building was the only thing holding WoW together, until they shifted to more casual friendly design choices.

 

GW2 is on track for a similar fate, but in reverse, as its whole underlying design is conductive to encouraging ad-hoc cooperation. But the push into hardcore elements and best in slot group comps lead to the community shutting itself off into little fiefdoms, openly talk about their superiority, and trying to purge the other game modes. Unlike WoW, there isn't a single path forward that forces the whole community to deal with itself out of necessity. So when a GW2 player meets resistance, they avoid it entirely unless absolutely forced to. See Raids, See Legendary Trinkets, See Gift of Battle, See Gift of Exploration...... but notice how no one gives a crap about sPvP's barrier for entry, outside of that time they introduced Ascended Armor rewards?

[Fellwitch.4536]

I read just now the quarterly earnings reports from NCSoft for the past two years. Frankly, it's quite shocking that Arenanet has been able to do so much with what they have available. If your company is only pulling in 50 million (USD) per year, you can't have a giant studio. I looked at when PoF was released; basically all that development work only got them another 10-12 million bucks.

 

So... it sort of makes sense when they say, yeah, no more expansions, because basically the ROI is crap. If they keep their numbers stable (as they have been doing) and just have micro-content along with gem shop stuff, it's a heck of a lot easier to deal with than a major release. That being said, I would not expect to ever seen an expansion again. Another horrible thing I read was that the mobile games segment of NCSoft keeps expanding at an obscene rate. As a PC gamer this frightens me, but I guess I am now in the over 35 segment.

 

Another thing I read yesterday was that something like 45% of the world's population is under 25. That means mobile games.

 

To put things in perspective, GW2 is roughly equivalent to Aion at this point.

 

The best thing I could see happen for GW2 would be if somehow Arenanet somehow bought its way out of NCSoft and went independent, got some investments (maybe kickstarter), hired a new CEO that kicked butt, and started working on an ambitious expansion. I think there is still life left in the game but looking at things from a financial perspective, if I were NCSoft's accountants, I would not sink any more $$$ into Arenanet and basically just keep them on maintenance mode.

 

I think the most interesting thing is that people are talking about systems or gameplay mechanics as deciding the fate of GW2 when in effect it is a bunch of accountants sitting in a room together that are determining its fate now.

[Obtena.7952]

^^ That's not unique to this game or situation.

 

[Zoid.2568]

Guild Wars 2 is the best MMOrpg. The massive multiplayer experience in GW2 is the best of the best, the cream of the crop. There is no better.

The RPG in GW2 (the story) is kind of childish and not very mature. So not the best, sadly, but could've been if the story was more like the story in GW1.

The story as a whole is good but the execution of it is a let down many times.

 

The latest update with the new zone was not really good. I did the race and i explored the zone and did a few events.

 

Hopefully the new Icebrood Saga will deliver high quality.

 

 

And one more thing. The PvP is dead. Too few people are playing it and it's just a mess mostly. Remember that ArenaNet wanted to make SPvP e-sport xD

[Xar.6279]

Big mmorpg's don't die just like that. Look at LOTRO or SWTOR. Two mmorpg's which still got their audience and fans.

IMO GW2 may end similar to them. It won't be top1 MMORPG, but it won't die too. There will be always some fans of this universe.

 

What really died in Guild Wars 2 is hardcore scene. In every game mode. PvP. PvE. And WvW.

But game can work w/o hardcore scene. As casual mmorpg.

 

So both grous are right.

For hardcore players gw2 is dead.

For casual players gw2 is fine.

 

[Rogue.8235]

Video Game Developer: "Hey, we're developing a new game we'll be releasing next year! Stay tuned for previews and betas!"

Internet: "Game's dying/dead"

 

Developers: "Hey, the beta weekends are now up. Join us for a sneak preview of the game!"

Internet: "OMG the game's dead/dying"

 

Developers: "The game is now live! Join us for fun and adventure!"

Internet: "There's something to complain about. Game is dying/dead:

 

 

I think that sums it up. Biggest thing is that I always find people to help me as I play the game, no matter the task. There are players in every map and commodities on the TP still have a fast market velocity. There's lots of players playing. That's all I care about, what's actually happening in the game. Considering that forum posting and internet commenting is still a minority of the gaming community, I'm reasonably certain that a large segment of gamers also only care about what's actually in the game.

[Dante.1763]

> @"Xar.6279" said:

> Big mmorpg's don't die just like that. Look at LOTRO or SWTOR. Two mmorpg's which still got their audience and fans.

> IMO GW2 may end similar to them. It won't be top1 MMORPG, but it won't die too. There will be always some fans of this universe.

>

> What really died in Guild Wars 2 is hardcore scene. In every game mode. PvP. PvE. And WvW.

> But game can work w/o hardcore scene. As casual mmorpg.

>

> So both grous are right.

> For hardcore players gw2 is dead.

> For casual players gw2 is fine.

>

 

I mean i agree, they just need to make the content doable for the playerbase they have left if thats the case.

[Chichimec.9364]

*shrug...* Before coming to GW2 a couple of years ago I played Eldevin, which is an "officially dead' mmo. Hunted Cow, the parent studio, kept the game's servers going but clearly stated that they weren't going to be releasing any new content for it at all. The company had a new game they were pouring all their resources into. Even in a "dead" game there were always other players around and I could join an impromptu group if I wanted or just run solo. I enjoyed the game, played it for months, maxing several different alts and simply moved on when I got bored. So a "dead" game doesn't scare me. If GW2 shut down today, I would be a bit sad but there are so many entertainment options available these days, gaming and otherwise, that I would soon be happily immersed in something else. Let me quickly add that I don't want GW2 to shut down. At this point I've played it far longer than any other game I've ever gotten into and I've been gaming since the days of Sega Genesis and Nintendo NES. All I am saying is that it won't be the end of the world for me when and if GW2 does shut down.

 

P.S. There is one nice thing about a "dead game" - you don't get the endless stream of irritating "balance" patches you get here. ;)

[C Cspace Cowboy.5903]

> @"Lahemic.6097" said:

> I've held off on making this thread for a while. I keep seeing doomsayers say that GW2 is dying or on the brink of ending for one reason or another, which resulted in me and one of my old gamer buddies getting into a debate. I was able to stump him on some points, but I'm actually quite frustrated at how easily people are falling for rumors. I really want to break my silence on this issue, be it untimely or not. I'd like to put the players at ease here, and give some reassurance. Here's some things to keep in mind about the rumors going around, and how they are easily dismissed.

>

> 1. The player base isn't dying, nor is it dead. People that play a game for an extensive period of time tend to take breaks from them for a while. The drop in active players is simply due to people taking a break from the game. If runescape is up and running on its current playerbase, then this game is alive and well.

>

> 2. Guild wars 2 makes its mark in MMO history as one of the most well made MMORPGs with a F2P approach, rivaled only by Final Fantasy Online. The delivery of content, free events and items, cosmetics, etc, is a testament to their success.

>

> 3. The layoffs were nothing more than an investment decision on Arenas part. Just because a corporation lays off employees doesn't mean that they're in danger. If walmart lays off cashiers, it doesn't mean that the franchise is going down. It's just a business practice.

>

> GW2 is alive, it's well, and it's surpassing the playerbase of games such as Runescape, Requiem: Bloodymare, Secret World, Etc. This game has even got an aspiring RP community, which is beginning to attract newcomers (Particularly WoW veterans). Relax and enjoy the game! :)

 

> @"SexyMofo.8923" said:

> Tell that to the wvw and PvP players.

 

Gonna agree with Sexy.

 

I mean, at this point, the NA WvW population is like a 1 legged dog with a limp.

 

Keep in mind, BG"full" is in t2, and FA"very high" is in t3.