Consume Plasma

[Quadox.7834]

ANET: posted in pvp general instead, this one can be removed / merged I guess.

 

Consume plasma has been the strongest stolen skill since 2012.

 

Lets look at the stolen skills:

 

* **Mace crack**- melee, removed with stunbreak

 

* **Essence sap** - needs target, can be dodged (though 2nd strongest stolen skill)

 

* **Whirling axe** - melee, long channel that you can get damaged in.

 

* **Throw gunk** - small radius, weak effect.

 

* **Healing seed** - stationary, has cooldown.

 

* **Blinding tuft** - short duration, s/d thief doesn't benefit much from stealth, harder to get because you need to steal on a thief, only benefits the opener/escape not mid combat.

 

* **Ice shard** - melee, can be cleansed

 

* **Skull fear** - long channel, can be dodged.

 

Stolen skills are either attacks that need to hit a target (and either melee or slow cast), or defense with limited useability and cooldown like healing seed. This means that the thief must take risks and be think about it in order to get value out of the 2nd stolen still from improv, by going in melee range or doing a slow channel for instance. With plasma the thief just steals, jumps behind LoS, and uses it twice. Because it doesn't need to hit a target, doesn't need LoS, doesn't need melee, doesn't need to be spread out because it stacks so well. It scales too much with improv + sleight of hand + swindler's equilibrium.

 

Doesn't matter the situation, thieves will steal on the mesmer to get the boons, any opportunity cost is lost because it is *always* worth it. Playing a squishier build (e.g. power chrono) feels like playing the floor is lava vs top thief (try facing sind, pain, etc). It feels a bit like playing the "gas station" class.

 

Consume plasma has recently garnered attention due to boonbeast, and *surprise* it is broken there as well. Just Imagine if there was a utility that gave all boons in the game, on a <20 second cooldown.

 

Even thematically, why does mesmer stolen skill give boons while guardian's gives daze and engi's gives etheral field? That seems backwards.

 

Now I am aware some will take this an april fools joke because it contains the words "thief", "broken", and "nerf". This thread is about one skill, consume plasma, not about the entire class.

 

(last thread got closed)

[viquing.8254]

Again what cause me many trouble is boons durations considered the amount of steal they can does.

If it was at the same duration as signet of inspiration (which I supposed was the concept at the beginning.), there will not be that much trouble.

Basically :

* 10 sec aegis mean a free block.

* 10 sec fury mean free damage boost.

* 10 sec protection mean free damage reduction.

* 10 sec regen mean free temporisation.

* 5 sec retaliation mean free damage&tempo access (lol at thief who output 8k+ retal damage.).

* 5 sec 1 stack Stability mean you can't counter this by insta rupt.

* 10 swiftness + 10 sec vigor mean thieves are basically under perma vigor, perma swiftness.

* 2.5 quickness + 3 alacrity + 2.5 resistance + 1 stack 10sec might(combo well with some runes.) mean Cherry on the cake.

 

All in a instant cast 1200 range steal with some cd reductions.

In a glasscanon vs glasscanon duel where 1 fail = die, this give thieves a hudge margin of error.

[Dawdler.8521]

So thief (a roamer) has a certain mechanic in steal to keep a mesmer (another roamer) in check by countering it.

 

Whats the problem?

 

I fail to see how this is any difference to a mesmer having certain mechanics to counter ranged builds. If you're better than your enemy, you will win the fight on a mesmer or thief or whatever roamer regardless of what you meet. Consume plasma is as much of a crutch as anything the else the thief and the mesmer has to fight with.

[Quadox.7834]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> So thief (a roamer) has a certain mechanic in steal to keep a mesmer (another roamer) in check by countering it.

>

> Whats the problem?

>

> I fail to see how this is any difference to a mesmer having certain mechanics to counter ranged builds. If you're better than your enemy, you will win the fight on a mesmer or thief or whatever roamer regardless of what you meet. Consume plasma is as much of a crutch as anything the else the thief and the mesmer has to fight with.

 

Thief counters squishy roamers (like fa ele and shatter mes) by virtue of their mechanics, even without plasma existing.

[AsiraasiB.7165]

Lmao here goes another cry to nerf thief again... In the recent year its been : omg DJ hits too hard and unblockable. Anet complies

Omg DJ still hits hard and they can stealth easy. Anet complies

Omg the dodge on stealth is too OP. Anet complies. Now deadeye is pretty useless in pvp.. Wvw you have to plus one to be effective vs nonbaddies

 

Yal done with recking deadeye back to the whole class again huh.. Piece by piece.. I mean unhindering combat, nerfd. Lead attacks, nerfd. What more do you need to beat thief?.. The most nerfd class

[viquing.8254]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> So thief (a roamer) has a certain mechanic in steal to keep a mesmer (another roamer) in check by countering it.

>

> Whats the problem?

The problem is the 50-75% uptime with really easy access.

> I fail to see how this is any difference to a mesmer having certain mechanics to counter ranged builds. If you're better than your enemy, you will win the fight on a mesmer or thief or whatever roamer regardless of what you meet. Consume plasma is as much of a crutch as anything the else the thief and the mesmer has to fight with.

The differences are that :

* There is few build that throw 100% projectiles attacks.

* It work the same versus every mesmers builds and thief didn"t have to spec into it to have access to plasma. Aka when you see a reflect mesmer, you change your builds to have less/no projectiles but when you see a plasma thief, you will alaways fight a 50-75% boon uptime thief. (Apart if you anticipate the steal or if the thief cast plasma where you can rupt (pretty rare.).)

* Problem is that it also buff everything : damage(fury, quickness, might.), sustain (aegis, protection, regen, vigor, swiftness, resistance), and 2 in the same time (retal, alacrity.).

 

> @"AsiraasiB.7165" said:

> Lmao here goes another cry to nerf thief again... In the recent year its been : omg DJ hits too hard and unblockable. Anet complies

> Omg DJ still hits hard and they can stealth easy. Anet complies

> Omg the dodge on stealth is too OP. Anet complies. Now deadeye is pretty useless in pvp.. Wvw you have to plus one to be effective vs nonbaddies

>

> Yal done with recking deadeye back to the whole class again huh.. Piece by piece.. I mean unhindering combat, nerfd. Lead attacks, nerfd. What more do you need to beat thief?.. The most nerfd class

Considering the amount of time thieves came here to whine about mesmers and the number of builds that get hurts because of whine, DE nerfs are verry little in comparison. And considering thieves always counter power mes even without plasma, the "lmao here goes another cry to nerf thief" can be put where I think to be polite.

 

 

[Solori.6025]

> @"AsiraasiB.7165" said:

> Lmao here goes another cry to nerf thief again... In the recent year its been : omg DJ hits too hard and unblockable. Anet complies

> Omg DJ still hits hard and they can stealth easy. Anet complies

> Omg the dodge on stealth is too OP. Anet complies. Now deadeye is pretty useless in pvp.. Wvw you have to plus one to be effective vs nonbaddies

>

> Yal done with recking deadeye back to the whole class again huh.. Piece by piece.. I mean unhindering combat, nerfd. Lead attacks, nerfd. What more do you need to beat thief?.. The most nerfd class

 

Are you really wanting to compare how many times Anet caves to cry threads in the forums. Cause I can guarantee you, you will lose that battle if we compared mes vs thief for the past year.

 

Thief the nost nerfed. ( LOL) and was meta the entirety of this games early life. The sole roamer and plus 1 of the game. The class other roamers, side noders, decappers are weighed against in terms of speed and efficiency.

I cant name another class that stayed relevant in this games PvP and WvW like thief.

 

But lyssa forbid a direct hard counter to another class be softened to allow other classes a competitive chance.

 

[AsiraasiB.7165]

Lmao either yal haven't played thief enough or never made one. Thief hasn't been a solo roamer in forever, save a few really good players. Even as a plus one. Most aoe's ( since yal are mesmers all shatters. Staff 5 shield 5 pistol bounce torch 5 is a bounce i believe. And there's more) either keeps thieves away or at bay most of the fight. When fighting a thief 1v1 once again.. Aoe's and tracking skills on stealth helps so much. As well as timing and knowing the other class. You should know when a thief will steal, anticipate it, dodge, block stealth, f3, mesmer has a abdunace of resources... Thief has one unblockable, low hp, cool down on stealthed auto if missed, blocked or blinded, all stealth applications have been nerfed in someway, same with ports, dmg, initiative cost, endurance regen, condi removal been nerfd, and you wanna nerf thief more.

 

Do what i did make a class u hate.. I use to hate mesmer because I couldn't understand how they get all these clones and which to attack, ignore etc. Now I have 2 mesmers and laugh/look foward to facing theives on mesmer. At the sametime, that helped me improve so much vs mesmer it's meme.

 

Mesmer and ranger are both better thieves then theives are.

Ranger: stealth? Check. multiple applications? Check. High dmg? Check. One shot capable? Check. Escapes/mobility? Check. How is it a better thief? High sustain, long bow. Pet dmg, blocks, access to almost every boon, and not just vs one class, reveals and more

Mesmer: stealth? Check. multiple applications? Check. High dmg? Check. One shot capable? Check. Escapes/mobility? Check. Ports? Check. Multiple? Check. How is it a better thief? Well u can build for a tank and be a tank and either still hit hard or condis. Build for condis and still hit like a power build. Chronos get boons for days. Mirage evade. Clones on stealths and evades. Can have all clones use a better auto attack then thief stealth autos with no cool downs.

 

I can go on lol

 

Yal wanna complain about a skill we have to land to even get.

[Quadox.7834]

> @"AsiraasiB.7165" said:

> Lmao either yal haven't played thief enough or never made one. Thief hasn't been a solo roamer in forever, save a few really good players. Even as a plus one. Most aoe's ( since yal are mesmers all shatters. Staff 5 shield 5 pistol bounce torch 5 is a bounce i believe. And there's more) either keeps thieves away or at bay most of the fight. When fighting a thief 1v1 once again.. Aoe's and tracking skills on stealth helps so much. As well as timing and knowing the other class. You should know when a thief will steal, anticipate it, dodge, block stealth, f3, mesmer has a abdunace of resources... Thief has one unblockable, low hp, cool down on stealthed auto if missed, blocked or blinded, all stealth applications have been nerfed in someway, same with ports, dmg, initiative cost, endurance regen, condi removal been nerfd, and you wanna nerf thief more.

>

> Do what i did make a class u hate.. I use to hate mesmer because I couldn't understand how they get all these clones and which to attack, ignore etc. Now I have 2 mesmers and laugh/look foward to facing theives on mesmer. At the sametime, that helped me improve so much vs mesmer it's meme.

>

> Mesmer and ranger are both better thieves then theives are.

> Ranger: stealth? Check. multiple applications? Check. High dmg? Check. One shot capable? Check. Escapes/mobility? Check. How is it a better thief? High sustain, long bow. Pet dmg, blocks, access to almost every boon, and not just vs one class, reveals and more

> Mesmer: stealth? Check. multiple applications? Check. High dmg? Check. One shot capable? Check. Escapes/mobility? Check. Ports? Check. Multiple? Check. How is it a better thief? Well u can build for a tank and be a tank and either still hit hard or condis. Build for condis and still hit like a power build. Chronos get boons for days. Mirage evade. Clones on stealths and evades. Can have all clones use a better auto attack then thief stealth autos with no cool downs.

>

> I can go on lol

>

> Yal wanna complain about a skill we have to land to even get.

 

Thief isn't stronger than Mesmer. And I never said otherwise. Let's not make the thread a competition on who is more victimized.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Thief: more stealth than mesmer? Check. Stealth on demand? Check. High dmg? Check. One shot capable? Check. More escapes/mobility than mesmer? Check. More ports than mesmer? Check.

Poor thieves.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> Thief: more stealth than mesmer? Check. Stealth on demand? Check. High dmg? Check. One shot capable? Check. More escapes/mobility than mesmer? Check. More ports than mesmer? Check.

> Poor thieves.

 

Wow the world u live in lmao. Ur right tho all thief players must just be so bad at the class for it to be widely known as the worst 1v1 spec and delegated to +1 roles and decap. I'm sure with it having more dps,mobility,ports etc it would surely have been considered one of the best dueling specs up there at the top with mesmers if thief players just l2p right? Or ur biased,exaggerating and wrong in ur opinion, hmm what's more likely

Poor poor mesmers I wonder if it's the class that gives itself such a bad rep?

Who knows?

[cryorion.9532]

> @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> So thief (a roamer) has a certain mechanic in steal to keep a mesmer (another roamer) in check by countering it.

>

> Whats the problem?

>

> I fail to see how this is any difference to a mesmer having certain mechanics to counter ranged builds. If you're better than your enemy, you will win the fight on a mesmer or thief or whatever roamer regardless of what you meet. Consume plasma is as much of a crutch as anything the else the thief and the mesmer has to fight with.

 

The problem is not about that thief has mechanics to counter mesmer, but rather that the mechanic itself is way overtuned when compared to other boon providing skills in the game. Imo, the duration of those boons is way overtuned, giving too much reward for too little effort. E.g. 3 second boons duration would make more sense.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

> > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > So thief (a roamer) has a certain mechanic in steal to keep a mesmer (another roamer) in check by countering it.

> >

> > Whats the problem?

> >

> > I fail to see how this is any difference to a mesmer having certain mechanics to counter ranged builds. If you're better than your enemy, you will win the fight on a mesmer or thief or whatever roamer regardless of what you meet. Consume plasma is as much of a crutch as anything the else the thief and the mesmer has to fight with.

>

> The problem is not about that thief has mechanics to counter mesmer, but rather that the mechanic itself is way overtuned when compared to other boon providing skills in the game. Imo, the duration of those boons is way overtuned, giving too much reward for too little effort. E.g. 3 second boons duration would make more sense.

 

Lol so thief steal is OP compared to other boon generating skills? I've read it all now lmao it's literally one of the worst. Look at soulbeast,guard,rev,engi list goes on way better self and party boon generating skills and their applications cant be evaded like steal. Maybe if boons were applied whether steal hits or not.

[cryorion.9532]

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > @"cryorion.9532" said:

> > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > So thief (a roamer) has a certain mechanic in steal to keep a mesmer (another roamer) in check by countering it.

> > >

> > > Whats the problem?

> > >

> > > I fail to see how this is any difference to a mesmer having certain mechanics to counter ranged builds. If you're better than your enemy, you will win the fight on a mesmer or thief or whatever roamer regardless of what you meet. Consume plasma is as much of a crutch as anything the else the thief and the mesmer has to fight with.

> >

> > The problem is not about that thief has mechanics to counter mesmer, but rather that the mechanic itself is way overtuned when compared to other boon providing skills in the game. Imo, the duration of those boons is way overtuned, giving too much reward for too little effort. E.g. 3 second boons duration would make more sense.

>

> Lol so thief steal is OP compared to other boon generating skills? I've read it all now lmao it's literally one of the worst. Look at soulbeast,guard,rev,engi list goes on way better self and party boon generating skills and their applications cant be evaded like steal. Maybe if boons were applied whether steal hits or not.

 

Well yes, other professions have overtuned boon generation, too. But this is about one skill that provides all boons and most of them have 10 second duration while the Steal has 30/26 sec CD.

Personally, I would welcome big boon spam/convert/removal reduction across the game because currently, it is pretty disgusting.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"cryorion.9532" said:

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > > @"cryorion.9532" said:

> > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said:

> > > > So thief (a roamer) has a certain mechanic in steal to keep a mesmer (another roamer) in check by countering it.

> > > >

> > > > Whats the problem?

> > > >

> > > > I fail to see how this is any difference to a mesmer having certain mechanics to counter ranged builds. If you're better than your enemy, you will win the fight on a mesmer or thief or whatever roamer regardless of what you meet. Consume plasma is as much of a crutch as anything the else the thief and the mesmer has to fight with.

> > >

> > > The problem is not about that thief has mechanics to counter mesmer, but rather that the mechanic itself is way overtuned when compared to other boon providing skills in the game. Imo, the duration of those boons is way overtuned, giving too much reward for too little effort. E.g. 3 second boons duration would make more sense.

> >

> > Lol so thief steal is OP compared to other boon generating skills? I've read it all now lmao it's literally one of the worst. Look at soulbeast,guard,rev,engi list goes on way better self and party boon generating skills and their applications cant be evaded like steal. Maybe if boons were applied whether steal hits or not.

>

> Well yes, other professions have overtuned boon generation, too. But this is about one skill that provides all boons and most of them have 10 second duration while the Steal has 30/26 sec CD.

> Personally, I would welcome big boon spam/convert/removal reduction across the game because currently, it is pretty disgusting.

 

That I agree with 100%

[AsiraasiB.7165]

> @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > @"AsiraasiB.7165" said:

> > Lmao either yal haven't played thief enough or never made one. Thief hasn't been a solo roamer in forever, save a few really good players. Even as a plus one. Most aoe's ( since yal are mesmers all shatters. Staff 5 shield 5 pistol bounce torch 5 is a bounce i believe. And there's more) either keeps thieves away or at bay most of the fight. When fighting a thief 1v1 once again.. Aoe's and tracking skills on stealth helps so much. As well as timing and knowing the other class. You should know when a thief will steal, anticipate it, dodge, block stealth, f3, mesmer has a abdunace of resources... Thief has one unblockable, low hp, cool down on stealthed auto if missed, blocked or blinded, all stealth applications have been nerfed in someway, same with ports, dmg, initiative cost, endurance regen, condi removal been nerfd, and you wanna nerf thief more.

> >

> > Do what i did make a class u hate.. I use to hate mesmer because I couldn't understand how they get all these clones and which to attack, ignore etc. Now I have 2 mesmers and laugh/look foward to facing theives on mesmer. At the sametime, that helped me improve so much vs mesmer it's meme.

> >

> > Mesmer and ranger are both better thieves then theives are.

> > Ranger: stealth? Check. multiple applications? Check. High dmg? Check. One shot capable? Check. Escapes/mobility? Check. How is it a better thief? High sustain, long bow. Pet dmg, blocks, access to almost every boon, and not just vs one class, reveals and more

> > Mesmer: stealth? Check. multiple applications? Check. High dmg? Check. One shot capable? Check. Escapes/mobility? Check. Ports? Check. Multiple? Check. How is it a better thief? Well u can build for a tank and be a tank and either still hit hard or condis. Build for condis and still hit like a power build. Chronos get boons for days. Mirage evade. Clones on stealths and evades. Can have all clones use a better auto attack then thief stealth autos with no cool downs.

> >

> > I can go on lol

> >

> > Yal wanna complain about a skill we have to land to even get.

>

> Thief isn't stronger than Mesmer. And I never said otherwise. Let's not make the thread a competition on who is more victimized.

 

I'm not im merely stating that nerfing plasma one of thieves only crutch because players want to down everyone fast but not die themselves or have counters/competition /learning new classes is not fair when thief gets sneezed at and could die if they aren't paying attention. It's not as easy as it looks to play thief. Otherwise everyone would. *ahem* look at mesmer, Mirage more specifically. Soulbeast. Scrapper. Scourge was poppin for a bit. Remember tablet Rev? Yea everyone flocked because it's easy. No1 plays thief. Even shorts plays other classes now. Yishis switched to engi from thief before he quit gw.

 

Stop crying and make a thief

 

[Quadox.7834]

> @"AsiraasiB.7165" said:

> > @"Quadox.7834" said:

> > > @"AsiraasiB.7165" said:

> > > Lmao either yal haven't played thief enough or never made one. Thief hasn't been a solo roamer in forever, save a few really good players. Even as a plus one. Most aoe's ( since yal are mesmers all shatters. Staff 5 shield 5 pistol bounce torch 5 is a bounce i believe. And there's more) either keeps thieves away or at bay most of the fight. When fighting a thief 1v1 once again.. Aoe's and tracking skills on stealth helps so much. As well as timing and knowing the other class. You should know when a thief will steal, anticipate it, dodge, block stealth, f3, mesmer has a abdunace of resources... Thief has one unblockable, low hp, cool down on stealthed auto if missed, blocked or blinded, all stealth applications have been nerfed in someway, same with ports, dmg, initiative cost, endurance regen, condi removal been nerfd, and you wanna nerf thief more.

> > >

> > > Do what i did make a class u hate.. I use to hate mesmer because I couldn't understand how they get all these clones and which to attack, ignore etc. Now I have 2 mesmers and laugh/look foward to facing theives on mesmer. At the sametime, that helped me improve so much vs mesmer it's meme.

> > >

> > > Mesmer and ranger are both better thieves then theives are.

> > > Ranger: stealth? Check. multiple applications? Check. High dmg? Check. One shot capable? Check. Escapes/mobility? Check. How is it a better thief? High sustain, long bow. Pet dmg, blocks, access to almost every boon, and not just vs one class, reveals and more

> > > Mesmer: stealth? Check. multiple applications? Check. High dmg? Check. One shot capable? Check. Escapes/mobility? Check. Ports? Check. Multiple? Check. How is it a better thief? Well u can build for a tank and be a tank and either still hit hard or condis. Build for condis and still hit like a power build. Chronos get boons for days. Mirage evade. Clones on stealths and evades. Can have all clones use a better auto attack then thief stealth autos with no cool downs.

> > >

> > > I can go on lol

> > >

> > > Yal wanna complain about a skill we have to land to even get.

> >

> > Thief isn't stronger than Mesmer. And I never said otherwise. Let's not make the thread a competition on who is more victimized.

>

> I'm not im merely stating that nerfing plasma one of thieves only crutch because players want to down everyone fast but not die themselves or have counters/competition /learning new classes is not fair when thief gets sneezed at and could die if they aren't paying attention. It's not as easy as it looks to play thief. Otherwise everyone would. *ahem* look at mesmer, Mirage more specifically. Soulbeast. Scrapper. Scourge was poppin for a bit. Remember tablet Rev? Yea everyone flocked because it's easy. No1 plays thief. Even shorts plays other classes now. Yishis switched to engi from thief before he quit gw.

>

> Stop crying and make a thief

>

 

You are doing the same thing again. And I don't know any of those players.

[viquing.8254]

> @"AsiraasiB.7165" said:

> Do what i did make a class u hate.. I use to hate mesmer because I couldn't understand how they get all these clones and which to attack, ignore etc. Now I have 2 mesmers and laugh/look foward to facing theives on mesmer. At the sametime, that helped me improve so much vs mesmer it's meme.

> Stop crying and make a thief ...

 

Yeah I dit that during HoT with unhindered combatant. Was pretty fun in WvW to never die, having perma swiftness and so on. Was also pretty fun in PvP having way more easy suvivability than the old chronocondi meta thanks to mobility. Recently I did some duels to see, the damage output was just way more frequent and easier to land than on a power mes/mirage/chrono.

So yeah if you want to go off topic, I look at mesmer as long as you want but thief was always THE best mobility class in this game. And mobility mean overall survival, +1 oportunities and cap/decap in PvP. And in 1v1 thieves always counter mesmers power builds.

 

So considering the advantages disadvantages concept, I don't care having thief with high mobility and bad duellist or good duellist with average mobility but conversely having thief with high mobility plus having hudge advantages over other +1 specs who have less good mobility is conceptually weird.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> Lol so thief steal is OP compared to other boon generating skills? I've read it all now lmao it's literally one of the worst. Look at soulbeast,guard,rev,engi list goes on way better self and party boon generating skills and their applications cant be evaded like steal. Maybe if boons were applied whether steal hits or not.

 

I didn't mind thief having boons builds if they have to build for it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> > @"AsiraasiB.7165" said:

> > Do what i did make a class u hate.. I use to hate mesmer because I couldn't understand how they get all these clones and which to attack, ignore etc. Now I have 2 mesmers and laugh/look foward to facing theives on mesmer. At the sametime, that helped me improve so much vs mesmer it's meme.

> > Stop crying and make a thief ...

>

> Yeah I dit that during HoT with unhindered combatant. Was pretty fun in WvW to never die, having perma swiftness and so on. Was also pretty fun in PvP having way more easy suvivability than the old chronocondi meta thanks to mobility. Recently I did some duels to see, the damage output was just way more frequent and easier to land than on a power mes/mirage/chrono.

> So yeah if you want to go off topic, I look at mesmer as long as you want but thief was always THE best mobility class in this game. And mobility mean overall survival, +1 oportunities and cap/decap in PvP. And in 1v1 thieves always counter mesmers power builds.

>

> So considering the advantages disadvantages concept, I don't care having thief with high mobility and bad duellist or good duellist with average mobility but conversely having thief with high mobility plus having hudge advantages over other +1 specs who have less good mobility is conceptually weird.

>

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > Lol so thief steal is OP compared to other boon generating skills? I've read it all now lmao it's literally one of the worst. Look at soulbeast,guard,rev,engi list goes on way better self and party boon generating skills and their applications cant be evaded like steal. Maybe if boons were applied whether steal hits or not.

>

> I didn't mind thief having boons builds if they have to build for it.

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

 

They do! Trickery line gives best steal boons without it what does steal do? Give u 80% useless skills lol

[viquing.8254]

Yeah the trait line to have ofc.

But I mean there should be like a GM in trickery : "buff steals effects" or something like that make steal effect more powerfull (10 sec plasma (aka the actual effect.), some upgrade on other.).

[AsiraasiB.7165]

> @"Quadox.7834" said:

 

> >

>

> You are doing the same thing again. And I don't know any of those players.

Shorts is a youtube.. But i wasnt shorts who switched (was up at 4am sleepy) it was noody.. Both youtubers and yishis was a good youtuber very informative...

 

 

And at viq. You said a key word. Thief WAS the had the most mobility. Mostly cuz noobs didn't know their classes... But now everyone know their classes, thief mobility and stealth been nerfd many times, classes have more ports, swiftness, quickness, pulls, knockdown, cripples, clones, disengages, detargets, stealth, that all kills thieves engagements or disengagements. And i forgot the count stuns and dazes for interrupts. Not to mention the ridiculous tracking skills that hit a ton

I'm looking at u mesmer specter 3.. Ranger longbow 2... Ele air a tuned specter... Warrior 5 which distance and speed is never consistent.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

These days thiefs mobility isn't the advantage it once was.rev can hunt u down and burst u while ur trying to escape,ranger can keep close enough to easily down u with long bow using gs/bird,mesmer for obvious reasons,warrior clears alot of ground fast with gs,engine's if built for it can cover alot of ground quick as well etc arenet really need to figure out what they want thiefs identity to be and make some changes to help put thief back in line with its fellow classes.

[Safandula.8723]

Yea it's rly sweet to have that mobility that let's u smack that 3k backstab at the end. Buff d/p plz

[viquing.8254]

> @"AsiraasiB.7165" said:

> And at viq. You said a key word. Thief WAS the had the most mobility. Mostly cuz noobs didn't know their classes... But now everyone know their classes, thief mobility and stealth been nerfd many times, classes have more ports, swiftness, quickness, pulls, knockdown, cripples, clones, disengages, detargets, stealth, that all kills thieves engagements or disengagements. And i forgot the count stuns and dazes for interrupts. Not to mention the ridiculous tracking skills that hit a ton

> I'm looking at u mesmer specter 3.. Ranger longbow 2... Ele air a tuned specter... Warrior 5 which distance and speed is never consistent.

It's always the best mobility class in this game.

Are you seriously mentionning scepter 3, ranger 2, ele fa, when you have **perma vigor** with many skill who refresh endurance ? The only situation where I can think about a thief being hit by a scepter burst is under a CC combo with trait who immobilize on rupt, good luck put a lock burst combo on a thief who isn't rollfacing.

Wasting an evade on thief mean literrally nothing, you can evade 2 sec later, endurance bar still ok, not even mentioning weapons evades timing.

In the worst case, burn CD, run around decap a point, in 30 sec it's back.

 

> @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> These days thiefs mobility isn't the advantage it once was.rev can hunt u down and burst u while ur trying to escape,ranger can keep close enough to easily down u with long bow using gs/bird,mesmer for obvious reasons,warrior clears alot of ground fast with gs,engine's if built for it can cover alot of ground quick as well etc arenet really need to figure out what they want thiefs identity to be and make some changes to help put thief back in line with its fellow classes.

 

no one rev, ranger, warriors can teleport up and down vertically like thief. Only staff mesmer (pretty rare in +1 direct damage builds btw.) can do strong vertical kite and it's purely defensively. I'm not even mentionning mirage mobility because if a mirage use sword to be mobile he die next 10 sec because no more endurance so can't evade attacks. Difference is that thief can kite horizontally, vertically and ignoring LoS on many skills. It's ok it's the class design but counterpart is that it's weak in duel.

And what we talk about is that wtf thief have tools to manage other less mobile class while keeping top mobility. And yeah thief having 5 sec godmode versus mesmer is really fun in +1 vs +1 matchs were 1 fail for the mes is way more punishing than for the thief.

 

Hopefully there is really few good thieves who didn't faceroll and know their class advantages.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> > @"AsiraasiB.7165" said:

> > And at viq. You said a key word. Thief WAS the had the most mobility. Mostly cuz noobs didn't know their classes... But now everyone know their classes, thief mobility and stealth been nerfd many times, classes have more ports, swiftness, quickness, pulls, knockdown, cripples, clones, disengages, detargets, stealth, that all kills thieves engagements or disengagements. And i forgot the count stuns and dazes for interrupts. Not to mention the ridiculous tracking skills that hit a ton

> > I'm looking at u mesmer specter 3.. Ranger longbow 2... Ele air a tuned specter... Warrior 5 which distance and speed is never consistent.

> It's always the best mobility class in this game.

> Are you seriously mentionning scepter 3, ranger 2, ele fa, when you have **perma vigor** with many skill who refresh endurance ? The only situation where I can think about a thief being hit by a scepter burst is under a CC combo with trait who immobilize on rupt, good luck put a lock burst combo on a thief who isn't rollfacing.

> Wasting an evade on thief mean literrally nothing, you can evade 2 sec later, endurance bar still ok, not even mentioning weapons evades timing.

> In the worst case, burn CD, run around decap a point, in 30 sec it's back.

>

> > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said:

> > These days thiefs mobility isn't the advantage it once was.rev can hunt u down and burst u while ur trying to escape,ranger can keep close enough to easily down u with long bow using gs/bird,mesmer for obvious reasons,warrior clears alot of ground fast with gs,engine's if built for it can cover alot of ground quick as well etc arenet really need to figure out what they want thiefs identity to be and make some changes to help put thief back in line with its fellow classes.

>

> no one rev, ranger, warriors can teleport up and down vertically like thief. Only staff mesmer (pretty rare in +1 direct damage builds btw.) can do strong vertical kite and it's purely defensively. I'm not even mentionning mirage mobility because if a mirage use sword to be mobile he die next 10 sec because no more endurance so can't evade attacks. Difference is that thief can kite horizontally, vertically and ignoring LoS on many skills. It's ok it's the class design but counterpart is that it's weak in duel.

> And what we talk about is that kitten thief have tools to manage other less mobile class while keeping top mobility. And yeah thief having 5 sec godmode versus mesmer is really fun in +1 vs +1 matchs were 1 fail for the mes is way more punishing than for the thief.

>

> Hopefully there is really few good thieves who didn't faceroll and know their class advantages.

 

Can revs, guard not tele vertically with targets? So cuz sb5 can tele in SOME spots vertically it deserves the spot it's in? Especially with all the no taget/terrain spots that u cant sb5 to when u should especially wvw. Lmao sb5 Is lame arguement for class being way it is