Sparrow.5936 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 I always thought the trade off for being a Staff Daredevil was the lack of access to stealth? Not sure the range nerf on steal / swipe was really justified. Why would a melee build need a gap close anyway? /s smh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 If arenet wanted to make dd a melee spec why not change steal to monks focus wherethe spec hones its focus and has a new set of cool staff attacks like reaper shroud but no player morph just an aura.the skills could be heavily favored toward sustaining and performing well in a 1v1 etc. I donno anything better than this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 >lack of access to stealth? wot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > >lack of access to stealth? > > wot? Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > wot? > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > wot? > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"kash.9213" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > @"kash.9213" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? you can still use those with daredevil, you don't lose those and you don't have to take staff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > you can still use those with daredevil, you don't lose those and you don't have to take staff "Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth" If you're just trying to be opposition defiant and want to feel like you're making a point with posts like "wot?" you still need to at least unpack some responses so people don't think you're just lazy trolling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"kash.9213" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > you can still use those with daredevil, you don't lose those and you don't have to take staff > > "Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth" > > If you're just trying to be opposition defiant and want to feel like you're making a point with posts like "wot?" you still need to at least unpack some responses so people don't think you're just lazy trolling. > > lack off stealth is not a trade-off since you still have access to all the stealth of core as a DrD. if you want stealth simply don't camp/take staff. it's like arguing that scourge's trade-off is less mobility since torch replaces warhorn. let's try different wording: a stealth DrD has the same amount of stealth as a core stealth thief. the reason staff DrD doesn't have much stealth isn't because of a trade-off but because staff DrD isn't a stealth build Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"kash.9213" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > you can still use those with daredevil, you don't lose those and you don't have to take staff > > "Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth" > > If you're just trying to be opposition defiant and want to feel like you're making a point with posts like "wot?" you still need to at least unpack some responses so people don't think you're just lazy trolling. > > To be fair, we can say that S/P or P/P Thief has zero access to stealth in the same way. Taking staff does not remove the option of having X/Dagger or Dagger/Pistol in your second set of weapons. Shortbow is not a requirement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"Turk.5460" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > > > you can still use those with daredevil, you don't lose those and you don't have to take staff > > > > "Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth" > > > > If you're just trying to be opposition defiant and want to feel like you're making a point with posts like "wot?" you still need to at least unpack some responses so people don't think you're just lazy trolling. > > > > > > To be fair, we can say that S/P or P/P Thief has zero access to stealth in the same way. Taking staff does not remove the option of having X/Dagger or Dagger/Pistol in your second set of weapons. Shortbow is not a requirement. Shortbow is most definitely a requirement if you don't want to get flamed by your team. SB5 is single handedly the only skill that keeps thieves on life support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > > > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > > > > > you can still use those with daredevil, you don't lose those and you don't have to take staff > > > > > > "Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth" > > > > > > If you're just trying to be opposition defiant and want to feel like you're making a point with posts like "wot?" you still need to at least unpack some responses so people don't think you're just lazy trolling. > > > > > > > > > > To be fair, we can say that S/P or P/P Thief has zero access to stealth in the same way. Taking staff does not remove the option of having X/Dagger or Dagger/Pistol in your second set of weapons. Shortbow is not a requirement. > > Shortbow is most definitely a requirement if you don't want to get flamed by your team. SB5 is single handedly the only skill that keeps thieves on life support. short bow is "required" because of balance, not design Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > > > > > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > > > > > > > you can still use those with daredevil, you don't lose those and you don't have to take staff > > > > > > > > "Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth" > > > > > > > > If you're just trying to be opposition defiant and want to feel like you're making a point with posts like "wot?" you still need to at least unpack some responses so people don't think you're just lazy trolling. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > To be fair, we can say that S/P or P/P Thief has zero access to stealth in the same way. Taking staff does not remove the option of having X/Dagger or Dagger/Pistol in your second set of weapons. Shortbow is not a requirement. > > > > Shortbow is most definitely a requirement if you don't want to get flamed by your team. SB5 is single handedly the only skill that keeps thieves on life support. > > short bow is "required" because of balance, not design You can drop the airquotes, its literally required. And eh, its more design than balance. In sPvP Thief now, as a class, is from the ground up designed around its central mechanic, shortbow 5. Every trait, every weapon, every utility skill, is designed to support that central mechanic without breaking it. If a build came to be that would be good at 1v1ing, it would be nerfed because it doesnt fit the design of the shortbow 5 class. Shortbow 5 at this point cannot be changed without requiring a full rework of the class, and nerfing it would immideatly render the class unplayable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > @"Turk.5460" said: > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > > > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > > > > > you can still use those with daredevil, you don't lose those and you don't have to take staff > > > > > > "Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth" > > > > > > If you're just trying to be opposition defiant and want to feel like you're making a point with posts like "wot?" you still need to at least unpack some responses so people don't think you're just lazy trolling. > > > > > > > > > > To be fair, we can say that S/P or P/P Thief has zero access to stealth in the same way. Taking staff does not remove the option of having X/Dagger or Dagger/Pistol in your second set of weapons. Shortbow is not a requirement. > > Shortbow is most definitely a requirement if you don't want to get flamed by your team. SB5 is single handedly the only skill that keeps thieves on life support. I wasn't aware that this thread was regarding sPvP-only. Was that mentioned somewhere? Because it's absolutely *not* a requirement in WvW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kash.9213 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"Turk.5460" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > > > you can still use those with daredevil, you don't lose those and you don't have to take staff > > > > "Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth" > > > > If you're just trying to be opposition defiant and want to feel like you're making a point with posts like "wot?" you still need to at least unpack some responses so people don't think you're just lazy trolling. > > > > > > To be fair, we can say that **S/P or P/P** Thief has zero access to stealth in the same way. Taking staff does not remove the option of having X/Dagger or Dagger/Pistol in your second set of weapons. Shortbow is not a requirement. You're probably not taking d/p with s/p or p/p either, even if you didn't take shortbow before, you're likely taking it now with new range on Steal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turk.5460 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > You can drop the airquotes, its literally required. And eh, its more design than balance. In sPvP Thief now, as a class, is from the ground up designed around its central mechanic, shortbow 5. Every trait, every weapon, every utility skill, is designed to support that central mechanic without breaking it. If a build came to be that would be good at 1v1ing, it would be nerfed because it doesnt fit the design of the shortbow 5 class. Shortbow 5 at this point cannot be changed without requiring a full rework of the class, and nerfing it would immideatly render the class unplayable. Apparently Rifle + S/P DE was never viable? I remember it doing quite well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omgdracula.6345 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"Turk.5460" said: > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > > > > @"kash.9213" said: > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > @"omgdracula.6345" said: > > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > > >lack of access to stealth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > wot? > > > > > > > > > > > > Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth unless you take blinding powder. That is what they mean. > > > > > > > > > > they have about the same stealth access as core thief last i checked (and don't counter that with specific build) > > > > > > > > Staff has something comparable to CnD or Black Powder? > > > > > > you can still use those with daredevil, you don't lose those and you don't have to take staff > > > > "Staff Daredevil has 0 access to stealth" > > > > If you're just trying to be opposition defiant and want to feel like you're making a point with posts like "wot?" you still need to at least unpack some responses so people don't think you're just lazy trolling. > > > > > > To be fair, we can say that S/P or P/P Thief has zero access to stealth in the same way. Taking staff does not remove the option of having X/Dagger or Dagger/Pistol in your second set of weapons. Shortbow is not a requirement. It was not explicitly stated sPvP only. I think that is just more or less the major issue everyone is having. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 23, 2019 Share Posted April 23, 2019 > @"Turk.5460" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > You can drop the airquotes, its literally required. And eh, its more design than balance. In sPvP Thief now, as a class, is from the ground up designed around its central mechanic, shortbow 5. Every trait, every weapon, every utility skill, is designed to support that central mechanic without breaking it. If a build came to be that would be good at 1v1ing, it would be nerfed because it doesnt fit the design of the shortbow 5 class. Shortbow 5 at this point cannot be changed without requiring a full rework of the class, and nerfing it would immideatly render the class unplayable. > > Apparently Rifle + S/P DE was never viable? I remember it doing quite well. > @"Turk.5460" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > You can drop the airquotes, its literally required. And eh, its more design than balance. In sPvP Thief now, as a class, is from the ground up designed around its central mechanic, shortbow 5. Every trait, every weapon, every utility skill, is designed to support that central mechanic without breaking it. If a build came to be that would be good at 1v1ing, it would be nerfed because it doesnt fit the design of the shortbow 5 class. Shortbow 5 at this point cannot be changed without requiring a full rework of the class, and nerfing it would immideatly render the class unplayable. > > Apparently Rifle + S/P DE was never viable? I remember it doing quite well. It was a bad cheese build, yeah. It did well in the lower ranks since stealth hadnt been a major thing thief has used in-combat for a long time, and people werent used to dodging the telegraph yet, but fell off hard as you went up in ranks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparrow.5936 Posted April 24, 2019 Author Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > lack off stealth is not a trade-off since you still have access to all the stealth of core as a DrD. if you want stealth simply don't camp/take staff. > > it's like arguing that scourge's trade-off is less mobility since torch replaces warhorn. > > let's try different wording: a stealth DrD has the same amount of stealth as a core stealth thief. the reason staff DrD doesn't have much stealth isn't because of a trade-off but because staff DrD isn't a stealth build Your snark is noted, and your logic is faulty. So what you're saying is... the range nerf on steal/swipe is totally justifiable as long you are NOT a Staff Daredevil?? GG But yes, Let's try different wording: A Staff Daredevil is NOT a stealth build as you pointed out, but you can still make a stealth Daredevil build with other weapon sets. Yes, BUT... that was the trade off when you became a STAFF Daredevil.. no longer taking advantage of the stealth mechanics other builds enjoy. A staff build IS however a melee build and thus needs a gap closer. It no longer has one on it's own. Your solution: Take a different secondary weapon, or don't use Staff at all. If I'm being forced to take either a different weapon / secondary weapon / utility skill / or grandmaster trait, there's a high probability that I just won't play Daredevil at all when I can now do more with different trait lines without the drawback . So it's not a trade off, it's forcing me into a different spec altogether. It was a garbage move by the developers, and I'm not sure why you're defending it? I think that other guy was right, and you're just being devils advocate for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"Sparrow.5936" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > lack off stealth is not a trade-off since you still have access to all the stealth of core as a DrD. if you want stealth simply don't camp/take staff. > > > > it's like arguing that scourge's trade-off is less mobility since torch replaces warhorn. > > > > let's try different wording: a stealth DrD has the same amount of stealth as a core stealth thief. the reason staff DrD doesn't have much stealth isn't because of a trade-off but because staff DrD isn't a stealth build > > Your snark is noted, and your logic is faulty. > So what you're saying is... the range nerf on steal/swipe is totally justifiable as long you are NOT a Staff Daredevil?? GG > > But yes, Let's try different wording: A Staff Daredevil is NOT a stealth build as you pointed out, but you can still make a stealth Daredevil build with other weapon sets. Yes, BUT... that was the trade off when you became a STAFF Daredevil.. no longer taking advantage of the stealth mechanics other builds enjoy. > A staff build IS however a melee build and thus needs a gap closer. It no longer has one on it's own. Your solution: Take a different secondary weapon, or don't use Staff at all. If I'm being forced to take either a different weapon / secondary weapon / utility skill / or grandmaster trait, there's a high probability that I just won't play Daredevil at all when I can now do more with different trait lines without the drawback . So it's not a trade off, it's forcing me into a different spec altogether. > > It was a garbage move by the developers, and I'm not sure why you're defending it? I think that other guy was right, and you're just being devils advocate for whatever reason. because from a design perspective this change makes sense, anet however has a history of poorly balancing their design changes. on the other hand the whole "devs don't know what they're doing" complaints after every balance patch would hold more weight if they where less predictable then the sun rising (and no, those complaints aren't exclusive towards anet). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimmyTim.3215 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 or > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"Sparrow.5936" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > lack off stealth is not a trade-off since you still have access to all the stealth of core as a DrD. if you want stealth simply don't camp/take staff. > > > > > > it's like arguing that scourge's trade-off is less mobility since torch replaces warhorn. > > > > > > let's try different wording: a stealth DrD has the same amount of stealth as a core stealth thief. the reason staff DrD doesn't have much stealth isn't because of a trade-off but because staff DrD isn't a stealth build > > > > Your snark is noted, and your logic is faulty. > > So what you're saying is... the range nerf on steal/swipe is totally justifiable as long you are NOT a Staff Daredevil?? GG > > > > But yes, Let's try different wording: A Staff Daredevil is NOT a stealth build as you pointed out, but you can still make a stealth Daredevil build with other weapon sets. Yes, BUT... that was the trade off when you became a STAFF Daredevil.. no longer taking advantage of the stealth mechanics other builds enjoy. > > A staff build IS however a melee build and thus needs a gap closer. It no longer has one on it's own. Your solution: Take a different secondary weapon, or don't use Staff at all. If I'm being forced to take either a different weapon / secondary weapon / utility skill / or grandmaster trait, there's a high probability that I just won't play Daredevil at all when I can now do more with different trait lines without the drawback . So it's not a trade off, it's forcing me into a different spec altogether. > > > > It was a garbage move by the developers, and I'm not sure why you're defending it? I think that other guy was right, and you're just being devils advocate for whatever reason. > > because from a design perspective this change makes sense, anet however has a history of poorly balancing their design changes. on the other hand the whole "devs don't know what they're doing" complaints after every balance patch would hold more weight if they where less predictable then the sun rising (and no, those complaints aren't exclusive towards anet). or just make the steal/swipe not a very hard nerf from 600 range to 900 range?? gap close anyways Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"Sparrow.5936" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > lack off stealth is not a trade-off since you still have access to all the stealth of core as a DrD. if you want stealth simply don't camp/take staff. > > > > > > it's like arguing that scourge's trade-off is less mobility since torch replaces warhorn. > > > > > > let's try different wording: a stealth DrD has the same amount of stealth as a core stealth thief. the reason staff DrD doesn't have much stealth isn't because of a trade-off but because staff DrD isn't a stealth build > > > > Your snark is noted, and your logic is faulty. > > So what you're saying is... the range nerf on steal/swipe is totally justifiable as long you are NOT a Staff Daredevil?? GG > > > > But yes, Let's try different wording: A Staff Daredevil is NOT a stealth build as you pointed out, but you can still make a stealth Daredevil build with other weapon sets. Yes, BUT... that was the trade off when you became a STAFF Daredevil.. no longer taking advantage of the stealth mechanics other builds enjoy. > > A staff build IS however a melee build and thus needs a gap closer. It no longer has one on it's own. Your solution: Take a different secondary weapon, or don't use Staff at all. If I'm being forced to take either a different weapon / secondary weapon / utility skill / or grandmaster trait, there's a high probability that I just won't play Daredevil at all when I can now do more with different trait lines without the drawback . So it's not a trade off, it's forcing me into a different spec altogether. > > > > It was a garbage move by the developers, and I'm not sure why you're defending it? I think that other guy was right, and you're just being devils advocate for whatever reason. > > because from a design perspective this change makes sense, anet however has a history of poorly balancing their design changes. on the other hand the whole "devs don't know what they're doing" complaints after every balance patch would hold more weight if they where less predictable then the sun rising (and no, those complaints aren't exclusive towards anet). They should have changed what it does from a design perspective. Swipe could stay short ranged, but the trade off should have been losing stealing abilities and gaining a daredevil f skill. I mean look at DE. A clear and acceptable trade off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"Sparrow.5936" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > lack off stealth is not a trade-off since you still have access to all the stealth of core as a DrD. if you want stealth simply don't camp/take staff. > > > > > > > > it's like arguing that scourge's trade-off is less mobility since torch replaces warhorn. > > > > > > > > let's try different wording: a stealth DrD has the same amount of stealth as a core stealth thief. the reason staff DrD doesn't have much stealth isn't because of a trade-off but because staff DrD isn't a stealth build > > > > > > Your snark is noted, and your logic is faulty. > > > So what you're saying is... the range nerf on steal/swipe is totally justifiable as long you are NOT a Staff Daredevil?? GG > > > > > > But yes, Let's try different wording: A Staff Daredevil is NOT a stealth build as you pointed out, but you can still make a stealth Daredevil build with other weapon sets. Yes, BUT... that was the trade off when you became a STAFF Daredevil.. no longer taking advantage of the stealth mechanics other builds enjoy. > > > A staff build IS however a melee build and thus needs a gap closer. It no longer has one on it's own. Your solution: Take a different secondary weapon, or don't use Staff at all. If I'm being forced to take either a different weapon / secondary weapon / utility skill / or grandmaster trait, there's a high probability that I just won't play Daredevil at all when I can now do more with different trait lines without the drawback . So it's not a trade off, it's forcing me into a different spec altogether. > > > > > > It was a garbage move by the developers, and I'm not sure why you're defending it? I think that other guy was right, and you're just being devils advocate for whatever reason. > > > > because from a design perspective this change makes sense, anet however has a history of poorly balancing their design changes. on the other hand the whole "devs don't know what they're doing" complaints after every balance patch would hold more weight if they where less predictable then the sun rising (and no, those complaints aren't exclusive towards anet). > > They should have changed what it does from a design perspective. Swipe could stay short ranged, but the trade off should have been losing stealing abilities and gaining a daredevil f skill. I mean look at DE. A clear and acceptable trade off. perhaps but on the otherhand DE doesn't get something like DrD dodges so it has to be slightly worse then core thief. you could argue that if the trade-off anet was aiming for was "better dodges for a worse steal" they missed the mark one it but that's not the discussion i see happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"derd.6413" said: > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > @"Sparrow.5936" said: > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > lack off stealth is not a trade-off since you still have access to all the stealth of core as a DrD. if you want stealth simply don't camp/take staff. > > > > > > > > > > it's like arguing that scourge's trade-off is less mobility since torch replaces warhorn. > > > > > > > > > > let's try different wording: a stealth DrD has the same amount of stealth as a core stealth thief. the reason staff DrD doesn't have much stealth isn't because of a trade-off but because staff DrD isn't a stealth build > > > > > > > > Your snark is noted, and your logic is faulty. > > > > So what you're saying is... the range nerf on steal/swipe is totally justifiable as long you are NOT a Staff Daredevil?? GG > > > > > > > > But yes, Let's try different wording: A Staff Daredevil is NOT a stealth build as you pointed out, but you can still make a stealth Daredevil build with other weapon sets. Yes, BUT... that was the trade off when you became a STAFF Daredevil.. no longer taking advantage of the stealth mechanics other builds enjoy. > > > > A staff build IS however a melee build and thus needs a gap closer. It no longer has one on it's own. Your solution: Take a different secondary weapon, or don't use Staff at all. If I'm being forced to take either a different weapon / secondary weapon / utility skill / or grandmaster trait, there's a high probability that I just won't play Daredevil at all when I can now do more with different trait lines without the drawback . So it's not a trade off, it's forcing me into a different spec altogether. > > > > > > > > It was a garbage move by the developers, and I'm not sure why you're defending it? I think that other guy was right, and you're just being devils advocate for whatever reason. > > > > > > because from a design perspective this change makes sense, anet however has a history of poorly balancing their design changes. on the other hand the whole "devs don't know what they're doing" complaints after every balance patch would hold more weight if they where less predictable then the sun rising (and no, those complaints aren't exclusive towards anet). > > > > They should have changed what it does from a design perspective. Swipe could stay short ranged, but the trade off should have been losing stealing abilities and gaining a daredevil f skill. I mean look at DE. A clear and acceptable trade off. > > perhaps but on the otherhand DE doesn't get something like DrD dodges so it has to be slightly worse then core thief. > > you could argue that if the trade-off anet was aiming for was "better dodges for a worse steal" they missed the mark one it but that's not the discussion i see happening. The problem there is that "better dodges" is already questionable. Each of the dodges has downsides and upsides, and funny enough, they balance each other out quite well. Too well for a grandmaster trait thats supposed to be a huge benefit. If that was their goal, then they shouldve first buffed the hell out of the dodges. Remove the endurance regeneration block from Dash alltogether. Undo the Impaling Lotus nerfs. Give bound, idk, a daze or something? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derd.6413 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > @"Sparrow.5936" said: > > > > > > @"derd.6413" said: > > > > > > lack off stealth is not a trade-off since you still have access to all the stealth of core as a DrD. if you want stealth simply don't camp/take staff. > > > > > > > > > > > > it's like arguing that scourge's trade-off is less mobility since torch replaces warhorn. > > > > > > > > > > > > let's try different wording: a stealth DrD has the same amount of stealth as a core stealth thief. the reason staff DrD doesn't have much stealth isn't because of a trade-off but because staff DrD isn't a stealth build > > > > > > > > > > Your snark is noted, and your logic is faulty. > > > > > So what you're saying is... the range nerf on steal/swipe is totally justifiable as long you are NOT a Staff Daredevil?? GG > > > > > > > > > > But yes, Let's try different wording: A Staff Daredevil is NOT a stealth build as you pointed out, but you can still make a stealth Daredevil build with other weapon sets. Yes, BUT... that was the trade off when you became a STAFF Daredevil.. no longer taking advantage of the stealth mechanics other builds enjoy. > > > > > A staff build IS however a melee build and thus needs a gap closer. It no longer has one on it's own. Your solution: Take a different secondary weapon, or don't use Staff at all. If I'm being forced to take either a different weapon / secondary weapon / utility skill / or grandmaster trait, there's a high probability that I just won't play Daredevil at all when I can now do more with different trait lines without the drawback . So it's not a trade off, it's forcing me into a different spec altogether. > > > > > > > > > > It was a garbage move by the developers, and I'm not sure why you're defending it? I think that other guy was right, and you're just being devils advocate for whatever reason. > > > > > > > > because from a design perspective this change makes sense, anet however has a history of poorly balancing their design changes. on the other hand the whole "devs don't know what they're doing" complaints after every balance patch would hold more weight if they where less predictable then the sun rising (and no, those complaints aren't exclusive towards anet). > > > > > > They should have changed what it does from a design perspective. Swipe could stay short ranged, but the trade off should have been losing stealing abilities and gaining a daredevil f skill. I mean look at DE. A clear and acceptable trade off. > > > > perhaps but on the otherhand DE doesn't get something like DrD dodges so it has to be slightly worse then core thief. > > > > you could argue that if the trade-off anet was aiming for was "better dodges for a worse steal" they missed the mark one it but that's not the discussion i see happening. > > The problem there is that "better dodges" is already questionable. Each of the dodges has downsides and upsides, and funny enough, they balance each other out quite well. Too well for a grandmaster trait thats supposed to be a huge benefit. If that was their goal, then they shouldve first buffed the hell out of the dodges. Remove the endurance regeneration block from Dash alltogether. Undo the Impaling Lotus nerfs. Give bound, idk, a daze or something? perhaps some day we'll see some DrD love from anet, but not today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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