saerni.2584 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 I’d like to comment that this is the first time we’ve had a solid “design level” statement by Anet about how they want the game to operate. We also have seen a lot of complaints over the years invoking the unintended synergy between Elite specializations and Core mechanics. This is a solid first step in reducing the sense that’s elite specializations must be better in every way. We might be angry about how poorly this played out with Daredevil. But that doesn’t change the fact that Daredevil didn’t have a trade off. It had an extra endurance bar and retained all the functionality of a core thief. It didn’t just play differently it played better. That Core S/D was able to work in the meta speaks more to the relatively small power gain that Daredevil eventually represented (in light of later nerfs to its more used traits). I’d note that many Elites reflect a trade off in which a core mechanic changes to something new. Deadeye in this way reflected a better execution of a sidegrade rather than an upgrade. Longer range, different stolen skills and a new malice mechanic all with a cast time and no teleport. In this sense, the Daredevil tradeoff was relatively simple. Same stolen skills and same teleport, albeit with lower range and the dubious addition of unblockable. If Deadeye was intended to engage from range and maintain its distance then Daredevil was meant to stay closer and stick to its target. This doesn’t help much with that idea, given that the range on the teleport is significantly lower. Which brings me to a proposal. One which isn’t a simple 900 range bandaid. * Steal becomes “Harmony Strike” * Harmony Strike: Rapidly strike a target (unblockable) and gain access to a leap skill based on the target class type. Range 180-240. * Harmony Leap (general example): Leap forward X units and strike a target. If the leap hits then another Harmony Leap of the class struck will be available. * Harmony of Elements (Ele): Burning * Harmony of Death (Necro): Fear * Harmony of Illusion (Mesmer): Confusion * Harmony of Shadow (Thief): Blind * Harmony of Purpose (Engi): Cripple * Harmony of Nature (Ranger): Immobilize * Harmony of Resolve (Guard): Poison * Harmony of the Mists (Rev): Slow * Harmony of Battle (War): Weakness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reddie.5861 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"Bigpapasmurf.5623" said: > > @"reddie.5861" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > @"Moirg.7560" said: > > > > I get you guys want there to be 'tradeoffs' in e specs but the 50% CD and more importantly, 600 range nerf to steal was completely unnecessary. > > > > > > > > Daredevil dp burst is pmuch gutted as result. > > > > > > U really shoulda posted in the thief forum.most of the community dislikes thief as a class and want it deleted/gutted. Ull just get replies like the nerf wasn't enough and that the class is still a op class with infinite stealth,infinite teleports,infinite ini to infinitely spam skills that all one shot any class and cant be hit due to infinite dodges that have no punishable evade frames. Did I get it right? > > > > no that sounds like a mirage. > > > > thief is like has 3 dodges then is a 1 shot for any class > > hits like a wet noodle > > has zero sustain cant fight any1 equally "skilled" in a 1v1 > > is a kitten character that will always pick on you while ur fighting 1v1 with some1 else. > > > > all in all thief pretty kitten good at nothing :D > > Yeah I will have to disagree. > > hits like a wet noodle? It has some of the highest burst damage > 0 sustain? If you dont utilize the mobility offered by the class then yes (and also means you need to learn to play it). It does have sustain. > The last part is natural for any class that can hot fast and hard...its not exclusive to DrD highest burst? last time i checked my warrior 1111 nearly as hard as backstab from a thief. thief dmg has been nerfed into the ground maybe u think it has highest burst cus u get caught by surprise? mobility yes nice but we get gimped all the time on everything there hasnt been a patch saying removed the nerf on AA from thief removed nerf from backstab increased base toughness of thief increased base health of a thief increase w/e all u see is decrease decrease decrease and then u get some shitty things in return +450? hp on dodge or -10% dmg woohooo when most classes already swing u for 5k+ that 10% or 450 hp is gonna cut it but then u probably would say slap on some other armor sure np bro and end up not being able to sustain a crap not being able to "burst" at all.. im still playing thief but as far i understood guild wars thief should be among top dps why other classes can poo same dps and have far more sustain. as for mobility maybe in sPvP thief is still king which i doubt. but when u take ur ass to WvW ull see thief doesnt have mobility at all anymore unless ur talking about S/D weapon set which forces u into core thief anyway. thief used to have unique things it no longer has anything unique if u ask me every1 can jump over the map now every1 can burst like a idiot <-- 2 thief things but most of the "every1" also have sustain or invuls or other crap where as thief has nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kolly.9872 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > Losing 600 range is pretty huge, but baseline unblockable is also huge. With standard trickery traits, this now gives it the only instant unblockable interrupt that also ignores stability that I can think of. Of course basi venom is a thing but that is much less reliable due to the long cast to prep the venom and this way you can have unblockable with daggerstorm at the same time. This can be used as an on demand interrupt against all the channeled blocks found across most classes which can be huge. Shield stance, echo of memory, shock shield, warding rift, even full counter and many more all get shut down instantly by swipe regardless of stability presence which is a totally unique and powerful quality swipe now has. We'll see if anything comes of this or if 600 range loss is too much, but I think it's too early to write it off as trash. Swipe doesn't interrupt channeled blocks.. it just damage through it for **"the excellent amount of about 1k"** but the block is still up for the full duration. Swipe should at least make all attacks unblocable for the next 3 secs. Also at the moment the cd is not reduced by trickery and acrobatic traits. So in pvp we have a new steal with range and cd nerfed that doesn't interrupt any blocks. But don't worry, we have still infinite dodges, infinite stealth and teleports.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted April 24, 2019 Share Posted April 24, 2019 People will still keep playing it and its gonna stay as it is except slight of hand fix whenever that comes. If the past is repeated as usually is classes will slowly get more powercrept while thief gets more gutted due to the general dislike the community and aperantly the development team have for the class.its a shame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highlie.7641 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 The balance team is biased. there is no point banging your head against a brick wall guys. Most thieves in NA have already quit so any valid points you have are going to be lost in the cry of "Thief OP". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 I think it's worth mentioning how messed up it is that they're introducing this years after HoT as though it's a mechanic exclusive to DD just as mark is exclusive to DE. Mark was like it is from the start, for DD it is and always will be steal, they just halved the range, made it unblockable, and put a new name on it. Straight up nerf to an already overnerfed spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TorQ.7041 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 > @"ArthurDent.9538" said: > Losing 600 range is pretty huge, but baseline unblockable is also huge. With standard trickery traits, this now gives it the only instant unblockable interrupt that also ignores stability that I can think of. Of course basi venom is a thing but that is much less reliable due to the long cast to prep the venom and this way you can have unblockable with daggerstorm at the same time. This can be used as an on demand interrupt against all the channeled blocks found across most classes which can be huge. Shield stance, echo of memory, shock shield, warding rift, even full counter and many more all get shut down instantly by swipe regardless of stability presence which is a totally unique and powerful quality swipe now has. We'll see if anything comes of this or if 600 range loss is too much, but I think it's too early to write it off as trash. Why is unblockable huge? We already have it with ageis removal. Stealing is used to interupt. If they are actively blocking like sheild stance and all the skills you listed. You just wasted your steal lol. You want to steal when they are using mercy, you want to use steal when they are activating rampage not when they are using sheild stance xD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennypig.6428 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 Those ppl are just so bad at this game they didnt know steal already 100% go thru agies and stab and 100% interrupt with trickery which is mandatory for all build before they said unblockable steal gives us enough advantages. Lmao, l2p first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dadnir.5038 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > While I still don't think that daredevil needed this change, I must say that you "main" thiefs should get over it and just do a minor change to your rotation as daredevil. Unlike _steal_, _Swipe_ just isn't a gap closer, however used properly in fight it's very powerfull. It give the daredevil a lot more CC pressure in melee fight. > > It isnt. It literally has one (not two, not three, ***one***) use case where it has *any* advantage. Channeled blocks. And my question is, do you ever want to interrpt a channeled block? The answer is no. That's why players like you can't be taken seriously. _Swipe_ is an almost instant CC which allow you to interrupt both heal skills and threatening skills that tend to have a cast time. The ability to break channeled block is just icing on the cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UNOwen.7132 Posted April 25, 2019 Share Posted April 25, 2019 > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > @"UNOwen.7132" said: > > > @"Dadnir.5038" said: > > > While I still don't think that daredevil needed this change, I must say that you "main" thiefs should get over it and just do a minor change to your rotation as daredevil. Unlike _steal_, _Swipe_ just isn't a gap closer, however used properly in fight it's very powerfull. It give the daredevil a lot more CC pressure in melee fight. > > > > It isnt. It literally has one (not two, not three, ***one***) use case where it has *any* advantage. Channeled blocks. And my question is, do you ever want to interrpt a channeled block? The answer is no. > > That's why players like you can't be taken seriously. _Swipe_ is an almost instant CC which allow you to interrupt both heal skills and threatening skills that tend to have a cast time. The ability to break channeled block is just icing on the cake. And Steal already did that. Im talking about swipes advantage (or more accurate, complete lack thereof) over steal. Swipe isnt "very powerful", nor does it "give the daredevil more CC pressure in a melee fight". Its a strict downgrade and a poor skill as a result. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 Welcome to spellbreaker's world. FC used to deal damage too. Edit: Port -> Dagger storm -> Steal -> Dagger storm -> steal -> Dagger storm Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lincolnbeard.1735 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 The profession that always says sw3 without unblockable is useless is the same that says unblockable steal sucks and isn't needed. Why would we need unblockable steal, we can wait until block runs out! Because even half a brain thieves used basi to unblockable steal through echo of memory for example, or the fact that war regens a ton while blocking, and so on. Kitten victim complex. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomNexus.5324 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > Edit: Port -> Dagger storm -> Steal -> Dagger storm -> steal -> Dagger storm > Just saying. What are you talking about? I guess you are implying you can reset daggerstorm with improv by stealing? First of all Steal has >20s cooldown so it's not even remotely spamable (not even with s/d core since the swindler's equilibrium nerf). Second there are 6 different skill categories (deception, signet, trick, trap, venom, physical) and which one gets reset is random so you only have a ~17% chance of actually resetting daggerstorm. Third: Steal is a crucial tool for thieves.. you don't want to waste it for a 17% chance. Also daggerstorm doesn't make thief invul but evade so you still get dmg from conditions, retaliation, some AoE, etc and you can still be CC'd from pulls/tethers or guard walls etc which also ends the evasion so it's not like it's a god-mode button. The dmg output - especially on single target - is also pretty mediocre. I honestly can't see why ppl complain about daggerstorm so much, it's annoying at the most.. And no - I'm not using daggerstorm, I'm running basi venom on daredevil. But since this thread is about Swipe: Yes I also think 600 range is too short... In my opinion it would be a better solution to just remove the unblockable again and raise the range to 900 or even just to 750 would be a big improvement really. I also can't see why they counterbalanced the range reduction with unblockable in the first place.. wasn't the range reduction meant to be a tradeoff for Daredevil in itself? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alatar.7364 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > Welcome to spellbreaker's world. FC used to deal damage too. > > Edit: Port -> Dagger storm -> Steal -> Dagger storm -> steal -> Dagger storm > Just saying. And now reality: Port -> no valid path to target -> Dead Now reality if lucky: Port -> dagger storm -> enemy went invul or block for 90% of its duration -> cg, you just wasted DS, Dead Now reality if impossibly dream lucky: Port -> dagger storm -> dealth good dmg -> enemy either passively or instantly healed it -> enemy out damaged you with one or two skills instantly -> dead or running away and crying Now DS is a strong skill without doubt and I don't care a bit if it gets nerfed, but if I as a thief can stand in the middle of enemy DS using just one Dodge and take barely any dmg, then what's the problems all the powercrept professions got with it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > Welcome to spellbreaker's world. FC used to deal damage too. > > > > Edit: Port -> Dagger storm -> Steal -> Dagger storm -> steal -> Dagger storm > > Just saying. > > And now reality: Port -> no valid path to target -> Dead > > Now reality if lucky: Port -> dagger storm -> enemy went invul or block for 90% of its duration -> cg, you just wasted DS, Dead > > Now reality if impossibly dream lucky: > Port -> dagger storm -> dealth good dmg -> enemy either passively or instantly healed it -> enemy out damaged you with one or two skills instantly -> dead or running away and crying > > Now DS is a strong skill without doubt and I don't care a bit if it gets nerfed, but if I as a thief can stand in the middle of enemy DS using just one Dodge and take barely any dmg, then what's the problems all the powercrept professions got with it? > Two can play that game. My "reality" then: since teef is a +1 almost always, you're getting caught with your pants down, say, 80% of the time and then the reality is: Port -> CC -> Dagger storm -> Dead Also, my real complaint is not that DS is OP (that's why I wrote "just saying". Should have clarified that probably because I sense a storm (heh, get it?) coming from teef mains). If I get +1d it's not even that bad, I should die there. But I would love to see DS considered as invuln and not cap points during it's animation. That way I can at least leave the node to kite/LoS the damage and not forced to pop defensive abilities (which I probably don't have since It's a +1) to not loose a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alatar.7364 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > Welcome to spellbreaker's world. FC used to deal damage too. > > > > > > Edit: Port -> Dagger storm -> Steal -> Dagger storm -> steal -> Dagger storm > > > Just saying. > > > > And now reality: Port -> no valid path to target -> Dead > > > > Now reality if lucky: Port -> dagger storm -> enemy went invul or block for 90% of its duration -> cg, you just wasted DS, Dead > > > > Now reality if impossibly dream lucky: > > Port -> dagger storm -> dealth good dmg -> enemy either passively or instantly healed it -> enemy out damaged you with one or two skills instantly -> dead or running away and crying > > > > Now DS is a strong skill without doubt and I don't care a bit if it gets nerfed, but if I as a thief can stand in the middle of enemy DS using just one Dodge and take barely any dmg, then what's the problems all the powercrept professions got with it? > > > > Two can play that game. > My "reality" then: since teef is a +1 almost always, you're getting caught with your pants down, say, 80% of the time and then the reality is: > Port -> CC -> Dagger storm -> Dead > > Also, my real complaint is not that DS is OP (that's why I wrote "just saying". Should have clarified that probably because I sense a storm (heh, get it?) coming from teef mains). If I get +1d it's not even that bad, I should die there. But I would love to see DS considered as invuln and not cap points during it's animation. That way I can at least leave the node to kite/LoS the damage and not forced to pop defensive abilities (which I probably don't have since It's a +1) to not loose a point. It's difficult with skill like DS and ideas like not contributing to node cap, it's an evade skill after all, this way why doesn't Blurred frenzy, Bulls Charge, Pistol Whip or Instant Reflexes also prevent it? Since Thief is not sidenoder and doesn't need to hold the node then I don't think it is necessary for DS to allow cap contribution, however I still don't think it's good to couple that restriction with evade skills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > Welcome to spellbreaker's world. FC used to deal damage too. > > > > > > > > Edit: Port -> Dagger storm -> Steal -> Dagger storm -> steal -> Dagger storm > > > > Just saying. > > > > > > And now reality: Port -> no valid path to target -> Dead > > > > > > Now reality if lucky: Port -> dagger storm -> enemy went invul or block for 90% of its duration -> cg, you just wasted DS, Dead > > > > > > Now reality if impossibly dream lucky: > > > Port -> dagger storm -> dealth good dmg -> enemy either passively or instantly healed it -> enemy out damaged you with one or two skills instantly -> dead or running away and crying > > > > > > Now DS is a strong skill without doubt and I don't care a bit if it gets nerfed, but if I as a thief can stand in the middle of enemy DS using just one Dodge and take barely any dmg, then what's the problems all the powercrept professions got with it? > > > > > > > Two can play that game. > > My "reality" then: since teef is a +1 almost always, you're getting caught with your pants down, say, 80% of the time and then the reality is: > > Port -> CC -> Dagger storm -> Dead > > > > Also, my real complaint is not that DS is OP (that's why I wrote "just saying". Should have clarified that probably because I sense a storm (heh, get it?) coming from teef mains). If I get +1d it's not even that bad, I should die there. But I would love to see DS considered as invuln and not cap points during it's animation. That way I can at least leave the node to kite/LoS the damage and not forced to pop defensive abilities (which I probably don't have since It's a +1) to not loose a point. > > It's difficult with skill like DS and ideas like not contributing to node cap, it's an evade skill after all, this way why doesn't Blurred frenzy, Bulls Charge, Pistol Whip or Instant Reflexes also prevent it? > > Since Thief is not sidenoder and doesn't need to hold the node then I don't think it is necessary for DS to allow cap contribution, however I still don't think it's good to couple that restriction with evade skills. I would add those sill to the list too. This is thief topic after all. Ofc other similar skills should get the same treatment in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alatar.7364 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > Welcome to spellbreaker's world. FC used to deal damage too. > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Port -> Dagger storm -> Steal -> Dagger storm -> steal -> Dagger storm > > > > > Just saying. > > > > > > > > And now reality: Port -> no valid path to target -> Dead > > > > > > > > Now reality if lucky: Port -> dagger storm -> enemy went invul or block for 90% of its duration -> cg, you just wasted DS, Dead > > > > > > > > Now reality if impossibly dream lucky: > > > > Port -> dagger storm -> dealth good dmg -> enemy either passively or instantly healed it -> enemy out damaged you with one or two skills instantly -> dead or running away and crying > > > > > > > > Now DS is a strong skill without doubt and I don't care a bit if it gets nerfed, but if I as a thief can stand in the middle of enemy DS using just one Dodge and take barely any dmg, then what's the problems all the powercrept professions got with it? > > > > > > > > > > Two can play that game. > > > My "reality" then: since teef is a +1 almost always, you're getting caught with your pants down, say, 80% of the time and then the reality is: > > > Port -> CC -> Dagger storm -> Dead > > > > > > Also, my real complaint is not that DS is OP (that's why I wrote "just saying". Should have clarified that probably because I sense a storm (heh, get it?) coming from teef mains). If I get +1d it's not even that bad, I should die there. But I would love to see DS considered as invuln and not cap points during it's animation. That way I can at least leave the node to kite/LoS the damage and not forced to pop defensive abilities (which I probably don't have since It's a +1) to not loose a point. > > > > It's difficult with skill like DS and ideas like not contributing to node cap, it's an evade skill after all, this way why doesn't Blurred frenzy, Bulls Charge, Pistol Whip or Instant Reflexes also prevent it? > > > > Since Thief is not sidenoder and doesn't need to hold the node then I don't think it is necessary for DS to allow cap contribution, however I still don't think it's good to couple that restriction with evade skills. > > I would add those sill to the list too. This is thief topic after all. Ofc other similar skills should get the same treatment in my opinion. Nah, this way Scrapper, Boonbeast and Hybrid FB will **completely** dominate Conquest with no way for other professions to put pressure or sustain in the node to prevent the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > Welcome to spellbreaker's world. FC used to deal damage too. > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Port -> Dagger storm -> Steal -> Dagger storm -> steal -> Dagger storm > > > > > > Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > And now reality: Port -> no valid path to target -> Dead > > > > > > > > > > Now reality if lucky: Port -> dagger storm -> enemy went invul or block for 90% of its duration -> cg, you just wasted DS, Dead > > > > > > > > > > Now reality if impossibly dream lucky: > > > > > Port -> dagger storm -> dealth good dmg -> enemy either passively or instantly healed it -> enemy out damaged you with one or two skills instantly -> dead or running away and crying > > > > > > > > > > Now DS is a strong skill without doubt and I don't care a bit if it gets nerfed, but if I as a thief can stand in the middle of enemy DS using just one Dodge and take barely any dmg, then what's the problems all the powercrept professions got with it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two can play that game. > > > > My "reality" then: since teef is a +1 almost always, you're getting caught with your pants down, say, 80% of the time and then the reality is: > > > > Port -> CC -> Dagger storm -> Dead > > > > > > > > Also, my real complaint is not that DS is OP (that's why I wrote "just saying". Should have clarified that probably because I sense a storm (heh, get it?) coming from teef mains). If I get +1d it's not even that bad, I should die there. But I would love to see DS considered as invuln and not cap points during it's animation. That way I can at least leave the node to kite/LoS the damage and not forced to pop defensive abilities (which I probably don't have since It's a +1) to not loose a point. > > > > > > It's difficult with skill like DS and ideas like not contributing to node cap, it's an evade skill after all, this way why doesn't Blurred frenzy, Bulls Charge, Pistol Whip or Instant Reflexes also prevent it? > > > > > > Since Thief is not sidenoder and doesn't need to hold the node then I don't think it is necessary for DS to allow cap contribution, however I still don't think it's good to couple that restriction with evade skills. > > > > I would add those sill to the list too. This is thief topic after all. Ofc other similar skills should get the same treatment in my opinion. > > Nah, this way Scrapper, Boonbeast and Hybrid FB will **completely** dominate Conquest with no way for other professions to put pressure or sustain in the node to prevent the cap. There are tons of pulls, knock backs in the game. Just saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alatar.7364 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > Welcome to spellbreaker's world. FC used to deal damage too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Port -> Dagger storm -> Steal -> Dagger storm -> steal -> Dagger storm > > > > > > > Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > And now reality: Port -> no valid path to target -> Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > Now reality if lucky: Port -> dagger storm -> enemy went invul or block for 90% of its duration -> cg, you just wasted DS, Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > Now reality if impossibly dream lucky: > > > > > > Port -> dagger storm -> dealth good dmg -> enemy either passively or instantly healed it -> enemy out damaged you with one or two skills instantly -> dead or running away and crying > > > > > > > > > > > > Now DS is a strong skill without doubt and I don't care a bit if it gets nerfed, but if I as a thief can stand in the middle of enemy DS using just one Dodge and take barely any dmg, then what's the problems all the powercrept professions got with it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two can play that game. > > > > > My "reality" then: since teef is a +1 almost always, you're getting caught with your pants down, say, 80% of the time and then the reality is: > > > > > Port -> CC -> Dagger storm -> Dead > > > > > > > > > > Also, my real complaint is not that DS is OP (that's why I wrote "just saying". Should have clarified that probably because I sense a storm (heh, get it?) coming from teef mains). If I get +1d it's not even that bad, I should die there. But I would love to see DS considered as invuln and not cap points during it's animation. That way I can at least leave the node to kite/LoS the damage and not forced to pop defensive abilities (which I probably don't have since It's a +1) to not loose a point. > > > > > > > > It's difficult with skill like DS and ideas like not contributing to node cap, it's an evade skill after all, this way why doesn't Blurred frenzy, Bulls Charge, Pistol Whip or Instant Reflexes also prevent it? > > > > > > > > Since Thief is not sidenoder and doesn't need to hold the node then I don't think it is necessary for DS to allow cap contribution, however I still don't think it's good to couple that restriction with evade skills. > > > > > > I would add those sill to the list too. This is thief topic after all. Ofc other similar skills should get the same treatment in my opinion. > > > > Nah, this way Scrapper, Boonbeast and Hybrid FB will **completely** dominate Conquest with no way for other professions to put pressure or sustain in the node to prevent the cap. > > There are tons of pulls, knock backs in the game. Just saying. Vs Scrapper, Boonbeast and Hybrid FB all those you mention are virtually useless they always have either block or stab and I don't even think that _**always**_ is exaggerating in their case... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > > Welcome to spellbreaker's world. FC used to deal damage too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Port -> Dagger storm -> Steal -> Dagger storm -> steal -> Dagger storm > > > > > > > > Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now reality: Port -> no valid path to target -> Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now reality if lucky: Port -> dagger storm -> enemy went invul or block for 90% of its duration -> cg, you just wasted DS, Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now reality if impossibly dream lucky: > > > > > > > Port -> dagger storm -> dealth good dmg -> enemy either passively or instantly healed it -> enemy out damaged you with one or two skills instantly -> dead or running away and crying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now DS is a strong skill without doubt and I don't care a bit if it gets nerfed, but if I as a thief can stand in the middle of enemy DS using just one Dodge and take barely any dmg, then what's the problems all the powercrept professions got with it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two can play that game. > > > > > > My "reality" then: since teef is a +1 almost always, you're getting caught with your pants down, say, 80% of the time and then the reality is: > > > > > > Port -> CC -> Dagger storm -> Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, my real complaint is not that DS is OP (that's why I wrote "just saying". Should have clarified that probably because I sense a storm (heh, get it?) coming from teef mains). If I get +1d it's not even that bad, I should die there. But I would love to see DS considered as invuln and not cap points during it's animation. That way I can at least leave the node to kite/LoS the damage and not forced to pop defensive abilities (which I probably don't have since It's a +1) to not loose a point. > > > > > > > > > > It's difficult with skill like DS and ideas like not contributing to node cap, it's an evade skill after all, this way why doesn't Blurred frenzy, Bulls Charge, Pistol Whip or Instant Reflexes also prevent it? > > > > > > > > > > Since Thief is not sidenoder and doesn't need to hold the node then I don't think it is necessary for DS to allow cap contribution, however I still don't think it's good to couple that restriction with evade skills. > > > > > > > > I would add those sill to the list too. This is thief topic after all. Ofc other similar skills should get the same treatment in my opinion. > > > > > > Nah, this way Scrapper, Boonbeast and Hybrid FB will **completely** dominate Conquest with no way for other professions to put pressure or sustain in the node to prevent the cap. > > > > There are tons of pulls, knock backs in the game. Just saying. > > Vs Scrapper, Boonbeast and Hybrid FB all those you mention are virtually useless they always have either block or stab and I don't even think that _**always**_ is exaggerating in their case... Nope. Not always and yes, there are ways to win vs them. I and many others can do that. So can you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alatar.7364 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > > > Welcome to spellbreaker's world. FC used to deal damage too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Port -> Dagger storm -> Steal -> Dagger storm -> steal -> Dagger storm > > > > > > > > > Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now reality: Port -> no valid path to target -> Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now reality if lucky: Port -> dagger storm -> enemy went invul or block for 90% of its duration -> cg, you just wasted DS, Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now reality if impossibly dream lucky: > > > > > > > > Port -> dagger storm -> dealth good dmg -> enemy either passively or instantly healed it -> enemy out damaged you with one or two skills instantly -> dead or running away and crying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now DS is a strong skill without doubt and I don't care a bit if it gets nerfed, but if I as a thief can stand in the middle of enemy DS using just one Dodge and take barely any dmg, then what's the problems all the powercrept professions got with it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two can play that game. > > > > > > > My "reality" then: since teef is a +1 almost always, you're getting caught with your pants down, say, 80% of the time and then the reality is: > > > > > > > Port -> CC -> Dagger storm -> Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, my real complaint is not that DS is OP (that's why I wrote "just saying". Should have clarified that probably because I sense a storm (heh, get it?) coming from teef mains). If I get +1d it's not even that bad, I should die there. But I would love to see DS considered as invuln and not cap points during it's animation. That way I can at least leave the node to kite/LoS the damage and not forced to pop defensive abilities (which I probably don't have since It's a +1) to not loose a point. > > > > > > > > > > > > It's difficult with skill like DS and ideas like not contributing to node cap, it's an evade skill after all, this way why doesn't Blurred frenzy, Bulls Charge, Pistol Whip or Instant Reflexes also prevent it? > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Thief is not sidenoder and doesn't need to hold the node then I don't think it is necessary for DS to allow cap contribution, however I still don't think it's good to couple that restriction with evade skills. > > > > > > > > > > I would add those sill to the list too. This is thief topic after all. Ofc other similar skills should get the same treatment in my opinion. > > > > > > > > Nah, this way Scrapper, Boonbeast and Hybrid FB will **completely** dominate Conquest with no way for other professions to put pressure or sustain in the node to prevent the cap. > > > > > > There are tons of pulls, knock backs in the game. Just saying. > > > > Vs Scrapper, Boonbeast and Hybrid FB all those you mention are virtually useless they always have either block or stab and I don't even think that _**always**_ is exaggerating in their case... > > Nope. Not always and yes, there are ways to win vs them. I and many others can do that. So can you. Both Scrapper and Boonbeast requiring either 2 good players or 3 average ones to get the decap from them _(and never cap)_ is definitely not **a way**. Only Scrapper can be stalled by one player after 5 mins of taking the node, still not boonbeast and it's 12 stacks of stability, 2 evade skills, 4sec invul _(that doesn't prevent cap)_ and 100% endure Regen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > > > > Welcome to spellbreaker's world. FC used to deal damage too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Port -> Dagger storm -> Steal -> Dagger storm -> steal -> Dagger storm > > > > > > > > > > Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now reality: Port -> no valid path to target -> Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now reality if lucky: Port -> dagger storm -> enemy went invul or block for 90% of its duration -> cg, you just wasted DS, Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now reality if impossibly dream lucky: > > > > > > > > > Port -> dagger storm -> dealth good dmg -> enemy either passively or instantly healed it -> enemy out damaged you with one or two skills instantly -> dead or running away and crying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now DS is a strong skill without doubt and I don't care a bit if it gets nerfed, but if I as a thief can stand in the middle of enemy DS using just one Dodge and take barely any dmg, then what's the problems all the powercrept professions got with it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two can play that game. > > > > > > > > My "reality" then: since teef is a +1 almost always, you're getting caught with your pants down, say, 80% of the time and then the reality is: > > > > > > > > Port -> CC -> Dagger storm -> Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, my real complaint is not that DS is OP (that's why I wrote "just saying". Should have clarified that probably because I sense a storm (heh, get it?) coming from teef mains). If I get +1d it's not even that bad, I should die there. But I would love to see DS considered as invuln and not cap points during it's animation. That way I can at least leave the node to kite/LoS the damage and not forced to pop defensive abilities (which I probably don't have since It's a +1) to not loose a point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's difficult with skill like DS and ideas like not contributing to node cap, it's an evade skill after all, this way why doesn't Blurred frenzy, Bulls Charge, Pistol Whip or Instant Reflexes also prevent it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Thief is not sidenoder and doesn't need to hold the node then I don't think it is necessary for DS to allow cap contribution, however I still don't think it's good to couple that restriction with evade skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > I would add those sill to the list too. This is thief topic after all. Ofc other similar skills should get the same treatment in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > Nah, this way Scrapper, Boonbeast and Hybrid FB will **completely** dominate Conquest with no way for other professions to put pressure or sustain in the node to prevent the cap. > > > > > > > > There are tons of pulls, knock backs in the game. Just saying. > > > > > > Vs Scrapper, Boonbeast and Hybrid FB all those you mention are virtually useless they always have either block or stab and I don't even think that _**always**_ is exaggerating in their case... > > > > Nope. Not always and yes, there are ways to win vs them. I and many others can do that. So can you. > > Both Scrapper and Boonbeast requiring either 2 good players or 3 average ones to get the decap from them _(and never cap)_ is definitely not **a way**. > Only Scrapper can be stalled by one player after 5 mins of taking the node, still not boonbeast and it's 12 stacks of stability, 2 evade skills, 3sec invul _(that doesn't prevent cap)_ and 100% endure Regen. You saying that does not mean it's true. And using only your words as proof does not add any more credibility to the rest of your statement. Sorry. Because I can say that I could at least re-cap the node from scrapper and boonbeast in every match I played. So yeah. That's just words. The fact that you could not do that makes me question your rating. See where I'm going? No disrespect btw. Just trying to say that your own words are not proof enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alatar.7364 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > > > > > Welcome to spellbreaker's world. FC used to deal damage too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Port -> Dagger storm -> Steal -> Dagger storm -> steal -> Dagger storm > > > > > > > > > > > Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now reality: Port -> no valid path to target -> Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now reality if lucky: Port -> dagger storm -> enemy went invul or block for 90% of its duration -> cg, you just wasted DS, Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now reality if impossibly dream lucky: > > > > > > > > > > Port -> dagger storm -> dealth good dmg -> enemy either passively or instantly healed it -> enemy out damaged you with one or two skills instantly -> dead or running away and crying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now DS is a strong skill without doubt and I don't care a bit if it gets nerfed, but if I as a thief can stand in the middle of enemy DS using just one Dodge and take barely any dmg, then what's the problems all the powercrept professions got with it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two can play that game. > > > > > > > > > My "reality" then: since teef is a +1 almost always, you're getting caught with your pants down, say, 80% of the time and then the reality is: > > > > > > > > > Port -> CC -> Dagger storm -> Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, my real complaint is not that DS is OP (that's why I wrote "just saying". Should have clarified that probably because I sense a storm (heh, get it?) coming from teef mains). If I get +1d it's not even that bad, I should die there. But I would love to see DS considered as invuln and not cap points during it's animation. That way I can at least leave the node to kite/LoS the damage and not forced to pop defensive abilities (which I probably don't have since It's a +1) to not loose a point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's difficult with skill like DS and ideas like not contributing to node cap, it's an evade skill after all, this way why doesn't Blurred frenzy, Bulls Charge, Pistol Whip or Instant Reflexes also prevent it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Thief is not sidenoder and doesn't need to hold the node then I don't think it is necessary for DS to allow cap contribution, however I still don't think it's good to couple that restriction with evade skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would add those sill to the list too. This is thief topic after all. Ofc other similar skills should get the same treatment in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah, this way Scrapper, Boonbeast and Hybrid FB will **completely** dominate Conquest with no way for other professions to put pressure or sustain in the node to prevent the cap. > > > > > > > > > > There are tons of pulls, knock backs in the game. Just saying. > > > > > > > > Vs Scrapper, Boonbeast and Hybrid FB all those you mention are virtually useless they always have either block or stab and I don't even think that _**always**_ is exaggerating in their case... > > > > > > Nope. Not always and yes, there are ways to win vs them. I and many others can do that. So can you. > > > > Both Scrapper and Boonbeast requiring either 2 good players or 3 average ones to get the decap from them _(and never cap)_ is definitely not **a way**. > > Only Scrapper can be stalled by one player after 5 mins of taking the node, still not boonbeast and it's 12 stacks of stability, 2 evade skills, 3sec invul _(that doesn't prevent cap)_ and 100% endure Regen. > > You saying that does not mean it's true. And using only your words as proof does not add any more credibility to the rest of your statement. Sorry. > Because I can say that I could at least re-cap the node from scrapper and boonbeast in every match I played. So yeah. That's just words. The fact that you could not do that makes me question your rating. See where I'm going? No disrespect btw. Just trying to say that your own words are not proof enough. But yours somehow are? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FyzE.3472 Posted April 26, 2019 Share Posted April 26, 2019 > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > > > > > @"Alatar.7364" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > @"FyzE.3472" said: > > > > > > > > > > > > Welcome to spellbreaker's world. FC used to deal damage too. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Edit: Port -> Dagger storm -> Steal -> Dagger storm -> steal -> Dagger storm > > > > > > > > > > > > Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > And now reality: Port -> no valid path to target -> Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now reality if lucky: Port -> dagger storm -> enemy went invul or block for 90% of its duration -> cg, you just wasted DS, Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now reality if impossibly dream lucky: > > > > > > > > > > > Port -> dagger storm -> dealth good dmg -> enemy either passively or instantly healed it -> enemy out damaged you with one or two skills instantly -> dead or running away and crying > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Now DS is a strong skill without doubt and I don't care a bit if it gets nerfed, but if I as a thief can stand in the middle of enemy DS using just one Dodge and take barely any dmg, then what's the problems all the powercrept professions got with it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Two can play that game. > > > > > > > > > > My "reality" then: since teef is a +1 almost always, you're getting caught with your pants down, say, 80% of the time and then the reality is: > > > > > > > > > > Port -> CC -> Dagger storm -> Dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, my real complaint is not that DS is OP (that's why I wrote "just saying". Should have clarified that probably because I sense a storm (heh, get it?) coming from teef mains). If I get +1d it's not even that bad, I should die there. But I would love to see DS considered as invuln and not cap points during it's animation. That way I can at least leave the node to kite/LoS the damage and not forced to pop defensive abilities (which I probably don't have since It's a +1) to not loose a point. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It's difficult with skill like DS and ideas like not contributing to node cap, it's an evade skill after all, this way why doesn't Blurred frenzy, Bulls Charge, Pistol Whip or Instant Reflexes also prevent it? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Since Thief is not sidenoder and doesn't need to hold the node then I don't think it is necessary for DS to allow cap contribution, however I still don't think it's good to couple that restriction with evade skills. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I would add those sill to the list too. This is thief topic after all. Ofc other similar skills should get the same treatment in my opinion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Nah, this way Scrapper, Boonbeast and Hybrid FB will **completely** dominate Conquest with no way for other professions to put pressure or sustain in the node to prevent the cap. > > > > > > > > > > > > There are tons of pulls, knock backs in the game. Just saying. > > > > > > > > > > Vs Scrapper, Boonbeast and Hybrid FB all those you mention are virtually useless they always have either block or stab and I don't even think that _**always**_ is exaggerating in their case... > > > > > > > > Nope. Not always and yes, there are ways to win vs them. I and many others can do that. So can you. > > > > > > Both Scrapper and Boonbeast requiring either 2 good players or 3 average ones to get the decap from them _(and never cap)_ is definitely not **a way**. > > > Only Scrapper can be stalled by one player after 5 mins of taking the node, still not boonbeast and it's 12 stacks of stability, 2 evade skills, 3sec invul _(that doesn't prevent cap)_ and 100% endure Regen. > > > > You saying that does not mean it's true. And using only your words as proof does not add any more credibility to the rest of your statement. Sorry. > > Because I can say that I could at least re-cap the node from scrapper and boonbeast in every match I played. So yeah. That's just words. The fact that you could not do that makes me question your rating. See where I'm going? No disrespect btw. Just trying to say that your own words are not proof enough. > > But yours somehow are? Not my point, but if you need explanation, here it is: Your (or mine) words are not facts. You should not use them as facts. Get it? Saying just that does makes me feel like you just want to complain, not get an advice or help. If that is the case, sorry. I misunderstood you. Wanted to help though. Have a good day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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