EremiteAngel.9765 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 > @"EnderzShadow.2506" said: > > @"Nocturnal Lunacy.8563" said: > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > @"Nocturnal Lunacy.8563" said: > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > @"Nocturnal Lunacy.8563" said: > > > > > > After seeing everybody's builds, I am seeing why necro is such a ...... show right now. None of you have absolutely no clue as to the intention of the necro or what a necro can actually do. You're all severely limiting yourselves. Taking metabattle builds and changing some things lol. Learn the class, learn the game, quit making builds where all you have to do is spam to win. Seriously, spite? curses? rofl > > > > > > > > > > If you're so much better than all of us. You should definitely share your build > > > > > > > > I have and hey i even have record vids of me dominating all of you > > > > > > Lol. > > > > > > You might have never even met me. You on EU or na? > > > > > > And I never saw your name here in the necro sub before, as far as I remember. So you shared builds 2years ago? Cause that's when I went active in the forum. > > > Or you never posted a good build or a very bad build either, cause else I'd remember you. > > > > > > So afraid to post your build? > > > > I've posted the build multiple times under various accounts. Its not my fault you weren't here don't try to shame me cuz you missed out. Thats called narcissism. And my build isn't for the average blob mentality spammer. My builds you have to think about what youre doing or youll get deleted. There's only been a few that have been able to run my builds successfully. And if you think curses and spite are good trait lines for necro then you obv will never be one of them. And i'm rarely on these forums > > Sigmund Freud, you are not. > > Please tell me more about YOUR amazing builds , how great YOU are and how so few people have mastered YOUR builds. > Oh, while you're at it share some clips of YOU dominating everyone. > > Narcissism Definition-Personality qualities include thinking very highly of oneself, needing admiration, believing others are inferior, and lacking empathy for others Oh no...I think I fit the Narcissism Definition :o Kindly allow me to plug my own video shamelessly. 6 year of Necromancy in 1 video :3 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1z0WytS4tQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted May 12, 2019 Share Posted May 12, 2019 Reaper has some ridiculous melee dps right now lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeceiverX.8361 Posted May 16, 2019 Share Posted May 16, 2019 > @"Nocturnal Lunacy.8563" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"Nocturnal Lunacy.8563" said: > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > @"Nocturnal Lunacy.8563" said: > > > > > After seeing everybody's builds, I am seeing why necro is such a ...... show right now. None of you have absolutely no clue as to the intention of the necro or what a necro can actually do. You're all severely limiting yourselves. Taking metabattle builds and changing some things lol. Learn the class, learn the game, quit making builds where all you have to do is spam to win. Seriously, spite? curses? rofl > > > > > > > > If you're so much better than all of us. You should definitely share your build > > > > > > I have and hey i even have record vids of me dominating all of you > > > > Lol. > > > > You might have never even met me. You on EU or na? > > > > And I never saw your name here in the necro sub before, as far as I remember. So you shared builds 2years ago? Cause that's when I went active in the forum. > > Or you never posted a good build or a very bad build either, cause else I'd remember you. > > > > So afraid to post your build? > > I've posted the build multiple times under various accounts. Its not my fault you weren't here don't try to shame me cuz you missed out. Thats called narcissism. And my build isn't for the average blob mentality spammer. My builds you have to think about what youre doing or youll get deleted. There's only been a few that have been able to run my builds successfully. And if you think curses and spite are good trait lines for necro then you obv will never be one of them. And i'm rarely on these forums That's cute. Come back when you want to share something innovative or actually have some basis of proof for the claims you make. This subforum's members may not be innovative or historically correct about reaper at all save a few people (sorry, but it's true), but let's see the sauce. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhF6kZTodTsaTwmGgDHsUMYx7wg4SMKA8tKAUDhrQtC-jFCDQBCU9H5pPQKKDAwTAgo7PAGlgT4UAYFlekC4ilRA-w currently leaning towards this for a wvw zerg build. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 > @"DeceiverX.8361" said: > > @"Nocturnal Lunacy.8563" said: > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > @"Nocturnal Lunacy.8563" said: > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > > @"Nocturnal Lunacy.8563" said: > > > > > > After seeing everybody's builds, I am seeing why necro is such a ...... show right now. None of you have absolutely no clue as to the intention of the necro or what a necro can actually do. You're all severely limiting yourselves. Taking metabattle builds and changing some things lol. Learn the class, learn the game, quit making builds where all you have to do is spam to win. Seriously, spite? curses? rofl > > > > > > > > > > If you're so much better than all of us. You should definitely share your build > > > > > > > > I have and hey i even have record vids of me dominating all of you > > > > > > Lol. > > > > > > You might have never even met me. You on EU or na? > > > > > > And I never saw your name here in the necro sub before, as far as I remember. So you shared builds 2years ago? Cause that's when I went active in the forum. > > > Or you never posted a good build or a very bad build either, cause else I'd remember you. > > > > > > So afraid to post your build? > > > > I've posted the build multiple times under various accounts. Its not my fault you weren't here don't try to shame me cuz you missed out. Thats called narcissism. And my build isn't for the average blob mentality spammer. My builds you have to think about what youre doing or youll get deleted. There's only been a few that have been able to run my builds successfully. And if you think curses and spite are good trait lines for necro then you obv will never be one of them. And i'm rarely on these forums > > That's cute. > Come back when you want to share something innovative or actually have some basis of proof for the claims you make. > > This subforum's members may not be innovative or historically correct about reaper at all save a few people (sorry, but it's true), but let's see the sauce. Yeah, if there's no video it probably doesn't work =/ > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNBHhF6kZTodTsaTwmGgDHsUMYx7wg4SMKA8tKAUDhrQtC-jFCDQBCU9H5pPQKKDAwTAgo7PAGlgT4UAYFlekC4ilRA-w > > currently leaning towards this for a wvw zerg build. Try this: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?vRAQNAndRnc0At0g12AWbC0bilcBjaL8GaWQBgGwKI+KmFHjA-jlSBQBA4IAcgDBglUvQDnAgF8AASoKK5TfQGV+dl9HMpSQSBs6yI-w you don't need much toughness since shroud reduces damage by 50% with an additional 20% while RS3 is up. Move towards more berserker gear as you get comfortable, shoot for a 45.6% crit rate since that caps you out with bloodlust, fury, and death perception while in shroud. Skip the other shouts, NCSY! and CTTB! are the only two with value in a zerg. shout trait isn't worth as much as the -66% movement condition durations in a fight too, without it if you get immobilized you're pretty much dead. You don't go into shroud often enough to make use of the reduced CD on NCSY!, 20s CD matches up with the flow of fights better. rotation ex: Well, NCSY, SA, RS burst for 10s, leave shroud, 10s until it's back up with NCSY. Go scholars or eagle runes, the damage increase is phenomenal. Eagles gives 10% increased damage against targets under 50% hp and close to death gives another 20%, they stack to increase your damage to targets under 50% by 32%. Almost everything you do will execute people under 50% health. reaper doesn't fill the same role as scourge in zerg fights, it fills the same role as berserker and staff DD. Heavy, heavy melee damage that generates downs for your group to work off. Because of this, you want to maximize your damage potential instead of diluting it with curses. Curses reaper does have slightly better corrupts per minute than scourge, but only does comparable damage while scourge brings much better group support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > snips nah I like mine better lol. toughness is good. the elite shout sucks balls. shout trait is awesome, -66% trait is useless since superspeed ignores those anyways (not immob). I don't mind trading a bit of damage for tankiness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > snips > nah I like mine better lol. toughness is good. the elite shout sucks balls. shout trait is awesome, -66% trait is useless since superspeed ignores those anyways (not immob). I don't mind trading a bit of damage for tankiness. > Toughness provides about 3% damage reduction per 100 from 2k armor until just under 3k armor, then hits diminishing returns. It does not stack additivly with other modifers. Protection is a .67 modifers Shroud is .5 RS3 is .8 Food is .9 So with 0 toughness you have 75.8% damage reduction in shroud. With 800 toughness, or a .76 modifier, you have a total 81.6% damage reduction. 5.8% damage reduced is not worth 20%+ more damage in any scenario man Shout crits for 6k+, gives you stab to set up a shroud bomb, chills (+10% damage), and stuns. It is amazing for killing anyone that gets separated from the stack. Lich form has.... projectile AAs that do half the damage gs does? And makes you a giant target? Immob is the only condition that matters since you have no way to remove it in shroud, which is why it's a death sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted May 28, 2019 Share Posted May 28, 2019 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > snips right well, there is plenty of time to get hit out of shroud. especially if you aren't fighting potato farmer groups. elite shout is basically war hammer stun with a chill. its crap. don't need stab if you got rs3 and a guard. to each their own though. lich auto is 2.34, that is massive damage. almost gravedigger on an auto attack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted May 29, 2019 Author Share Posted May 29, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > snips > nah I like mine better lol. toughness is good. the elite shout sucks balls. shout trait is awesome, -66% trait is useless since superspeed ignores those anyways (not immob). I don't mind trading a bit of damage for tankiness. > Wow, the elite shout is maybe the best skill, necro/reaper has access to. In my opinion. Close to nothing can save ya > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > snips > > nah I like mine better lol. toughness is good. the elite shout sucks balls. shout trait is awesome, -66% trait is useless since superspeed ignores those anyways (not immob). I don't mind trading a bit of damage for tankiness. > > > > Toughness provides about 3% damage reduction per 100 from 2k armor until just under 3k armor, then hits diminishing returns. It does not stack additivly with other modifers. > > Protection is a .67 modifers > Shroud is .5 > RS3 is .8 > Food is .9 > > So with 0 toughness you have 75.8% damage reduction in shroud. > > With 800 toughness, or a .76 modifier, you have a total 81.6% damage reduction. > > 5.8% damage reduced is not worth 20%+ more damage in any scenario man > > Shout crits for 6k+, gives you stab to set up a shroud bomb, chills (+10% damage), and stuns. It is amazing for killing anyone that gets separated from the stack. Lich form has.... projectile AAs that do half the damage gs does? And makes you a giant target? > > Immob is the only condition that matters since you have no way to remove it in shroud, which is why it's a death sentence. Yeah, in shroud you get a lot of dmg reduction. But What about the time out of shroud, also what if you don't have RS3 ready when going into shroud? In zergs you can instantly die even while in shroud. (I still don't think the dmg reduction of shroud does always work. As getting hit by a 12k coalescence of ruin shouldn't drop you out of shroud with 12k lifeforce left, but sometimes it does exactly that. Finally I found someone that has good knowledge about the thoughness scaling xD a lot of people don't seem to know about this, even veteran theory-crafters. > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > snips > right well, there is plenty of time to get hit out of shroud. especially if you aren't fighting potato farmer groups. > elite shout is basically war hammer stun with a chill. its kitten. don't need stab if you got rs3 and a guard. to each their own though. lich auto is 2.34, that is massive damage. almost gravedigger on an auto attack. Yes lich can do massive dmg but first problem: -most of the times you will kill your allies with lich autos, due to some reflects Second: -going into lich is like putting a huge mark on your head, saying: "here I am, pls kill me" If lich was smaller, like normal Character size, it would be much better. If I would give an advice: play scourge in zergs. Yes reaper can be fun, but isn't anywhere near as effective as scourge. Reaper cannot be healed in shroud, doesn't give barrier to allies or cleanses conditions, isn't as good in corrupting as scourge. Reaper works best in small-scale, but even there it's not as good as scourge. Necro is meant to be corrupt boons, so pls corrupt boons. That may not amplify your dmg, but the dmg of the whole group you're playing with, while reducing enemies offensive power. Reaper seems to only work real good against maximum of 5 enemies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertow.2389 Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > So with 0 toughness you have 75.8% damage reduction in shroud. > > With 800 toughness, or a .76 modifier, you have a total 81.6% damage reduction. > > 5.8% damage reduced is not worth 20%+ more damage in any scenario man That's not how percentages work really, they always need to be used in the relative sense. If a hypothetical hit would have done 4000 damage with 75.8% damage reduction, then it would have done 3041 with 81.6% damage reduction. 3041 is a 24% reduction relative to 4000, not 5.8%. This is the same percentage reduction no matter the size of hit. Also, there are no "diminishing returns" on armor/toughness, in the literal, proper sense. All points of toughness increase your time to live vs power damage by the same amount of time. Hypothetically if a certain amount of toughness increases your time to live vs a certain dps source from 10 seconds to 15 seconds, then another equal amount of toughness on top of that will increase it from 15 seconds to 20 seconds. Now relatively, the first is a 50% increase in TTL, while the second is a 33% increase, but that is not the same as diminishing returns and the same effect holds true for power: if a certain amount of power would make one of your attacks do 1500 instead of 1000 (50% increase), then an additional equal amount of power would make it do 2000 instead of 1500 (33% increase). Actual diminishing returns would be something like the first 1000 toughness increases your TTL by 5 seconds, but the next 1000 increases it by only 2 seconds. Now you can make plenty of cases that toughness isn't good because it doesn't affect condition damage, or it's better to kill faster and you'll live long enough anyway, but I'd say that comes down to a judgement call based on the personal experience of the player and the types of situations/groups/encounters they find themselves in, not any mathematical inferiority of the stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted May 29, 2019 Author Share Posted May 29, 2019 > @"Undertow.2389" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > So with 0 toughness you have 75.8% damage reduction in shroud. > > > > With 800 toughness, or a .76 modifier, you have a total 81.6% damage reduction. > > > > 5.8% damage reduced is not worth 20%+ more damage in any scenario man > > That's not how percentages work really, they always need to be used in the relative sense. > > If a hypothetical hit would have done 4000 damage with 75.8% damage reduction, then it would have done 3041 with 81.6% damage reduction. 3041 is a 24% reduction relative to 4000, not 5.8%. This is the same percentage reduction no matter the size of hit. > > Also, there are no "diminishing returns" on armor/toughness, in the literal, proper sense. All points of toughness increase your time to live vs power damage by the same amount of time. >Hypothetically if a certain amount of toughness increases your time to live vs a certain dps source from 10 seconds to 15 seconds, then another equal amount of toughness on top of that will increase it from 15 seconds to 20 seconds. Now relatively, the first is a 50% increase in TTL, while the second is a 33% increase, but that is not the same as diminishing returns and the same effect holds true for power: if a certain amount of power would make one of your attacks do 1500 instead of 1000 (50% increase), then an additional equal amount of power would make it do 2000 instead of 1500 (33% increase). Actual diminishing returns would be something like the first 1000 toughness increases your TTL by 5 seconds, but the next 1000 increases it by only 2 seconds. Yeah and that's exactly how it works. I don't know the exact armor value anymore, but if you make a ~5k hit on a light armor class without thoughness. Then increase the toughness the hit gets lowered by the amount of dmg reduction you get from that thoughness. But as soon as we went over 2,8-2,9k (like I said, don't know the exact number anymore) the dmg reduction wasn't based on % anymore. Anything above that armor threshold did just give flat dmg reduction. > > Now you can make plenty of cases that toughness isn't good because it doesn't affect condition damage, or it's better to kill faster and you'll live long enough anyway, but I'd say that comes down to a judgement call based on the personal experience of the player and the types of situations/groups/encounters they find themselves in, not any mathematical inferiority of the stat. > > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > Yes lich can do massive dmg but first problem: > -most of the times you will kill your allies with lich autos, due to some reflects > Second: > -going into lich is like putting a huge mark on your head, saying: "here I am, pls kill me" > > Yes reaper can be fun, but isn't anywhere near as effective as scourge. Reaper cannot be healed in shroud, doesn't give barrier to allies or cleanses conditions, isn't as good in corrupting as scourge. > > Necro is meant to be corrupt boons, so pls corrupt boons. That may not amplify your dmg, but the dmg of the whole group you're playing with, while reducing enemies offensive power. which is why I cast nothing can save you before entering lich. which is why I have toughness and try to time it right. if support is handled, reaper can be very effective. its not unheard of to do double the damage of a scourge. reaper corrupts more boons then scourge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > Yes lich can do massive dmg but first problem: > > -most of the times you will kill your allies with lich autos, due to some reflects > > Second: > > -going into lich is like putting a huge mark on your head, saying: "here I am, pls kill me" > > > > Yes reaper can be fun, but isn't anywhere near as effective as scourge. Reaper cannot be healed in shroud, doesn't give barrier to allies or cleanses conditions, isn't as good in corrupting as scourge. > > > > Necro is meant to be corrupt boons, so pls corrupt boons. That may not amplify your dmg, but the dmg of the whole group you're playing with, while reducing enemies offensive power. > > which is why I cast nothing can save you before entering lich. > which is why I have toughness and try to time it right. > > if support is handled, reaper can be very effective. its not unheard of to do double the damage of a scourge. reaper corrupts more boons then scourge. If you were using scepter, sure. You aren't running scepter or lingering curses though If you're outdamaging scourges by 2x with this build, the scourges are doing something wrong. Like using celestial gear or the wrong traits Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > If you were using scepter, sure. You aren't running scepter or lingering curses though > > If you're outdamaging scourges by 2x with this build, the scourges are doing something wrong. Like using celestial gear or the wrong traits reaper out boonrips scourge with just rs2 (if using scepter instead of gs, which is an easy switch). was talking about reaper in general, altho even a tanky reaper should be doing way more then any scourge build. edit what I meant to say was rs2 corrupts just as much as a traited scepter, while gs4 and boonrip shout will push reaper to have more rips then scourge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > If you were using scepter, sure. You aren't running scepter or lingering curses though > > > > If you're outdamaging scourges by 2x with this build, the scourges are doing something wrong. Like using celestial gear or the wrong traits > > reaper out boonrips scourge with just rs2 (if using scepter instead of gs, which is an easy switch). > was talking about reaper in general, altho even a tanky reaper should be doing way more then any scourge build. Well, lets take a look at average damage over the course of fights from curses scourge vs spite reaper: scourge fights ending dps: 3.6, 9, 5.2, 4.5. average of ~5.6k/s reaper fights ending dps: 6.5, 9, 7.4, 9.3. average of 8.05k/s So even with ideal setups, it's not double. it's a 44% damage increase with a spite reaper, nowhere close to that with a curses reaper =/ Curses reaper does have the slight advantage in boon corrupts, but it deals similar damage with none of the group support and so is inferior to curses scourge. > @"Undertow.2389" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > So with 0 toughness you have 75.8% damage reduction in shroud. > > > > With 800 toughness, or a .76 modifier, you have a total 81.6% damage reduction. > > > > 5.8% damage reduced is not worth 20%+ more damage in any scenario man > > That's not how percentages work really, they always need to be used in the relative sense. > > If a hypothetical hit would have done 4000 damage with 75.8% damage reduction, then it would have done 3041 with 81.6% damage reduction. 3041 is a 24% reduction relative to 4000, not 5.8%. This is the same percentage reduction no matter the size of hit. > > Also, there are no "diminishing returns" on armor/toughness, in the literal, proper sense. All points of toughness increase your time to live vs power damage by the same amount of time. Hypothetically if a certain amount of toughness increases your time to live vs a certain dps source from 10 seconds to 15 seconds, then another equal amount of toughness on top of that will increase it from 15 seconds to 20 seconds. Now relatively, the first is a 50% increase in TTL, while the second is a 33% increase, but that is not the same as diminishing returns and the same effect holds true for power: if a certain amount of power would make one of your attacks do 1500 instead of 1000 (50% increase), then an additional equal amount of power would make it do 2000 instead of 1500 (33% increase). Actual diminishing returns would be something like the first 1000 toughness increases your TTL by 5 seconds, but the next 1000 increases it by only 2 seconds. > > Now you can make plenty of cases that toughness isn't good because it doesn't affect condition damage, or it's better to kill faster and you'll live long enough anyway, but I'd say that comes down to a judgement call based on the personal experience of the player and the types of situations/groups/encounters they find themselves in, not any mathematical inferiority of the stat. > > Okay, so here's the calculation for a warrior's earthshaker without any %+ damage modifiers: Earthshaker, 1.0 modifier, weapon strength avg. 1100, @4000 power= skill damage 4,400,000 Reaper shroud= 1.50 RS3= 1.20 Protection= 1.33 total= 2.394 Vs armor 1967 base = 2237 With Prot = 1682 (24.8% reduction) With RS+RS3+Prot = 934 (58.2% reduction) With build listed: Vs armor 2717 base = 1619 (27.6% reduction) With Prot = 1217 (45.6% reduction) With RS+RS3+Prot= 677 (69.7% reduction) With 1k armor: Vs armor 2967 base = 1483 ( 33.7% reduction) With Prot = 1115 (50.2% reduction) With RS+RS3+Prot = 619 (72.3% reduction) adding 1k toughness causes you to take 14.1% less damage in shroud. which is the only time you should be taking heavy damage, none of the melee power classes stay in the enemy zerg. you go in, burst, get out and reset CDs while using filler skills. With the build listed, it takes 20.8% less damage out of shroud with protection. with shroud and protection it takes 11.5% less damage than base. You can see from this that toughness becomes less valuable the more defensive modifiers you stack. With no modifiers, 1k more toughness gives you a 33.7% damage reduction. with 3 modifiers, that drops to a 14.1% damage reduction. This continues to get smaller when you factor in rite of the great dwarf, damage food, bulwark gyro, and epilogue: unbroken lines. TL;DR: Don't run toughness, when buffed it provides less total gain than adding more offensive stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stand The Wall.6987 Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > snips so its not double, wasn't being literal lol. go ahead and use whatever build you want, I don't care, I didn't post mine looking to get into some debate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Undertow.2389 Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > You can see from this that toughness becomes less valuable the more defensive modifiers you stack. With no modifiers, 1k more toughness gives you a 33.7% damage reduction. with 3 modifiers, that drops to a 14.1% damage reduction. You are repeating the same mistake I tried to explain. You can't add/subtract percentages like that. You have to multiply/divide. Going from > With RS+RS3+Prot = 934 (58.2% reduction) to > With RS+RS3+Prot = 619 (72.3% reduction) is **not** a 14.1% damage reduction. Look at the actual amount of damage you take, relative to each other. Reducing a hit for 934 to 619 is a 33.7% damage reduction. Exactly the same as with no modifiers. > @"Nimon.7840" said: > But as soon as we went over 2,8-2,9k (like I said, don't know the exact number anymore) the dmg reduction wasn't based on % anymore. Anything above that armor threshold did just give flat dmg reduction. No, here's the damage formula right here: [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage"). It is very simple, Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor). There are no breakpoints or limitations. It is simply "divided by target's Armor". Like I said, you can make plenty of arguments against toughness (and I'm not claiming it is great) such as it doesn't help against condition damage or that doing more damage and killing faster is a superior strategy, but you can't claim that toughness is bad because it simply doesn't stack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted May 29, 2019 Author Share Posted May 29, 2019 > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > Yes lich can do massive dmg but first problem: > > -most of the times you will kill your allies with lich autos, due to some reflects > > Second: > > -going into lich is like putting a huge mark on your head, saying: "here I am, pls kill me" > > > > Yes reaper can be fun, but isn't anywhere near as effective as scourge. Reaper cannot be healed in shroud, doesn't give barrier to allies or cleanses conditions, isn't as good in corrupting as scourge. > > > > Necro is meant to be corrupt boons, so pls corrupt boons. That may not amplify your dmg, but the dmg of the whole group you're playing with, while reducing enemies offensive power. > > which is why I cast nothing can save you before entering lich. > which is why I have toughness and try to time it right. > > if support is handled, reaper can be very effective. its not unheard of to do double the damage of a scourge. reaper corrupts more boons then scourge. Reaper doesn't corrupt more boons than scourge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted May 29, 2019 Author Share Posted May 29, 2019 > @"Undertow.2389" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > You can see from this that toughness becomes less valuable the more defensive modifiers you stack. With no modifiers, 1k more toughness gives you a 33.7% damage reduction. with 3 modifiers, that drops to a 14.1% damage reduction. > > You are repeating the same mistake I tried to explain. You can't add/subtract percentages like that. You have to multiply/divide. > > Going from > > With RS+RS3+Prot = 934 (58.2% reduction) > to > > With RS+RS3+Prot = 619 (72.3% reduction) > > is **not** a 14.1% damage reduction. Look at the actual amount of damage you take, relative to each other. Reducing a hit for 934 to 619 is a 33.7% damage reduction. Exactly the same as with no modifiers. > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > But as soon as we went over 2,8-2,9k (like I said, don't know the exact number anymore) the dmg reduction wasn't based on % anymore. Anything above that armor threshold did just give flat dmg reduction. > > No, here's the damage formula right here: [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage"). It is very simple, Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor). There are no breakpoints or limitations. It is simply "divided by target's Armor". Just that it doesn't work that way, even if it's intended to work that way. > > Like I said, you can make plenty of arguments against toughness (and I'm not claiming it is great) such as it doesn't help against condition damage or that doing more damage and killing faster is a superior strategy, but you can't claim that toughness is bad because it simply doesn't stack. > Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 > @"Undertow.2389" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > You can see from this that toughness becomes less valuable the more defensive modifiers you stack. With no modifiers, 1k more toughness gives you a 33.7% damage reduction. with 3 modifiers, that drops to a 14.1% damage reduction. > > You are repeating the same mistake I tried to explain. You can't add/subtract percentages like that. You have to multiply/divide. > > Going from > > With RS+RS3+Prot = 934 (58.2% reduction) > to > > With RS+RS3+Prot = 619 (72.3% reduction) > > is **not** a 14.1% damage reduction. Look at the actual amount of damage you take, relative to each other. Reducing a hit for 934 to 619 is a 33.7% damage reduction. Exactly the same as with no modifiers. > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > But as soon as we went over 2,8-2,9k (like I said, don't know the exact number anymore) the dmg reduction wasn't based on % anymore. Anything above that armor threshold did just give flat dmg reduction. > > No, here's the damage formula right here: [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage"). It is very simple, Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor). There are no breakpoints or limitations. It is simply "divided by target's Armor". > > Like I said, you can make plenty of arguments against toughness (and I'm not claiming it is great) such as it doesn't help against condition damage or that doing more damage and killing faster is a superior strategy, but you can't claim that toughness is bad because it simply doesn't stack. > starting from total damage, that's exactly how it works. each point of toughness reduces the remaining damage after all of the modifers have been put in. so while you will continue to take 33.7% less damage with toughness, the starting pool of damage taken remains the same and the overall gain from toughness decreases the more modifiers that are used. ie, toughness becomes less effective the more damage reduction you have. if you take 2237 base and have RS+RS3+prot you take 934 damage, or 41.8% of the original if you take 2237 base and have RS+RS3+prot+toughness you take 619 damage, or 27.7% of the original the damage reduced by toughness with buffs is 315. the damage reduced by toughness with no buffs is 754. toughness provides over 50% less benefit with damage reduction modifiers up. This means you should run damage reduction modifers instead of stacking toughness since applying them costs you no offensive stats while putting toughness on a build does. > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > Yes lich can do massive dmg but first problem: > > > -most of the times you will kill your allies with lich autos, due to some reflects > > > Second: > > > -going into lich is like putting a huge mark on your head, saying: "here I am, pls kill me" > > > > > > Yes reaper can be fun, but isn't anywhere near as effective as scourge. Reaper cannot be healed in shroud, doesn't give barrier to allies or cleanses conditions, isn't as good in corrupting as scourge. > > > > > > Necro is meant to be corrupt boons, so pls corrupt boons. That may not amplify your dmg, but the dmg of the whole group you're playing with, while reducing enemies offensive power. > > > > which is why I cast nothing can save you before entering lich. > > which is why I have toughness and try to time it right. > > > > if support is handled, reaper can be very effective. its not unheard of to do double the damage of a scourge. reaper corrupts more boons then scourge. > > Reaper doesn't corrupt more boons than scourge scourge f2 corrupts 1 boon while reaper RS2 corrupts 2, and it's on a lower CD. other than that they have all the same corruption tools unless you run harbringer's shroud on scourge, but really who are you going to hit with a 3s delay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruller.2084 Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 What the fuck is that first build thing, i dont think GodsofPvp has been updated in years. You have to go power on reaper, theres not nearly enough condi in reaper to touch anything condi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ruller.2084 Posted May 29, 2019 Share Posted May 29, 2019 > > Reaper doesn't corrupt more boons than scourge > > scourge f2 corrupts 1 boon while reaper RS2 corrupts 2, and it's on a lower CD. other than that they have all the same corruption tools unless you run harbringer's shroud on scourge, but really who are you going to hit with a 3s delay? A ton of people if youre not bad, scourge can corrupt quite a few more. Scourge has courrupts from Sand Flare, Breach, - edit nvm I wont name all of them out but literally every scourge utility skill corrupts boons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted May 30, 2019 Share Posted May 30, 2019 > @"ruller.2084" said: > > > > Reaper doesn't corrupt more boons than scourge > > > > scourge f2 corrupts 1 boon while reaper RS2 corrupts 2, and it's on a lower CD. other than that they have all the same corruption tools unless you run harbringer's shroud on scourge, but really who are you going to hit with a 3s delay? > > A ton of people if youre not bad, scourge can corrupt quite a few more. Scourge has courrupts from Sand Flare, Breach, - edit nvm I wont name all of them out but literally every scourge utility skill corrupts boons. If you're landing harbringer's shroud, you're fighting bad people or you're bombing from a wall. 3s is a long ass time in pvp/wvw. Sand flare you should be using to protect your party from Herald bombs, but the corrupt is melee range. It contributes little corrupt-wise in a fight. Trail of anguish and breach I can agree on completely though, I forgot about them corrupting. Reaper corrupts 2 + blind + chill every 6s in shroud, faster if you're using AAs since they reduce shroud cd. Scourge has nothing that often =/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimon.7840 Posted May 31, 2019 Author Share Posted May 31, 2019 > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"Undertow.2389" said: > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > You can see from this that toughness becomes less valuable the more defensive modifiers you stack. With no modifiers, 1k more toughness gives you a 33.7% damage reduction. with 3 modifiers, that drops to a 14.1% damage reduction. > > > > You are repeating the same mistake I tried to explain. You can't add/subtract percentages like that. You have to multiply/divide. > > > > Going from > > > With RS+RS3+Prot = 934 (58.2% reduction) > > to > > > With RS+RS3+Prot = 619 (72.3% reduction) > > > > is **not** a 14.1% damage reduction. Look at the actual amount of damage you take, relative to each other. Reducing a hit for 934 to 619 is a 33.7% damage reduction. Exactly the same as with no modifiers. > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > But as soon as we went over 2,8-2,9k (like I said, don't know the exact number anymore) the dmg reduction wasn't based on % anymore. Anything above that armor threshold did just give flat dmg reduction. > > > > No, here's the damage formula right here: [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage"). It is very simple, Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor). There are no breakpoints or limitations. It is simply "divided by target's Armor". > > > > Like I said, you can make plenty of arguments against toughness (and I'm not claiming it is great) such as it doesn't help against condition damage or that doing more damage and killing faster is a superior strategy, but you can't claim that toughness is bad because it simply doesn't stack. > > > > starting from total damage, that's exactly how it works. > > each point of toughness reduces the remaining damage after all of the modifers have been put in. so while you will continue to take 33.7% less damage with toughness, the starting pool of damage taken remains the same and the overall gain from toughness decreases the more modifiers that are used. ie, toughness becomes less effective the more damage reduction you have. > > if you take 2237 base and have RS+RS3+prot you take 934 damage, or 41.8% of the original > if you take 2237 base and have RS+RS3+prot+toughness you take 619 damage, or 27.7% of the original > > the damage reduced by toughness with buffs is 315. the damage reduced by toughness with no buffs is 754. toughness provides over 50% less benefit with damage reduction modifiers up. This means you should run damage reduction modifers instead of stacking toughness since applying them costs you no offensive stats while putting toughness on a build does. > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > Yes lich can do massive dmg but first problem: > > > > -most of the times you will kill your allies with lich autos, due to some reflects > > > > Second: > > > > -going into lich is like putting a huge mark on your head, saying: "here I am, pls kill me" > > > > > > > > Yes reaper can be fun, but isn't anywhere near as effective as scourge. Reaper cannot be healed in shroud, doesn't give barrier to allies or cleanses conditions, isn't as good in corrupting as scourge. > > > > > > > > Necro is meant to be corrupt boons, so pls corrupt boons. That may not amplify your dmg, but the dmg of the whole group you're playing with, while reducing enemies offensive power. > > > > > > which is why I cast nothing can save you before entering lich. > > > which is why I have toughness and try to time it right. > > > > > > if support is handled, reaper can be very effective. its not unheard of to do double the damage of a scourge. reaper corrupts more boons then scourge. > > > > Reaper doesn't corrupt more boons than scourge > > scourge f2 corrupts 1 boon while reaper RS2 corrupts 2, and it's on a lower CD. other than that they have all the same corruption tools unless you run harbringer's shroud on scourge, but really who are you going to hit with a 3s delay? But scourge corrupts 1 boon on 10 targets in a large area, while reaper only in small radius, also don't forget punishment skills. Breach and trail, both that reaper doesn't have access to> @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > @"ruller.2084" said: > > > > > > Reaper doesn't corrupt more boons than scourge > > > > > > scourge f2 corrupts 1 boon while reaper RS2 corrupts 2, and it's on a lower CD. other than that they have all the same corruption tools unless you run harbringer's shroud on scourge, but really who are you going to hit with a 3s delay? > > > > A ton of people if youre not bad, scourge can corrupt quite a few more. Scourge has courrupts from Sand Flare, Breach, - edit nvm I wont name all of them out but literally every scourge utility skill corrupts boons. > > If you're landing harbringer's shroud, you're fighting bad people or you're bombing from a wall. 3s is a long kitten time in pvp/wvw. > > Sand flare you should be using to protect your party from Herald bombs, but the corrupt is melee range. It contributes little corrupt-wise in a fight. Trail of anguish and breach I can agree on completely though, I forgot about them corrupting. > > Reaper corrupts 2 + blind + chill every 6s in shroud, faster if you're using AAs since they reduce shroud cd. Scourge has nothing that often =/ That's also not true, f2 on scourge is 8 seconds cd and isn't tied to shroud. While also doing cripple, torment and vulnerability in most cases. While as reaper you can't stay in rs forever. Also you can easily go spite/curses on scourge (yeah drops a bit of f2 cd) but corrupts even more boons and at this point, reaper can't compete anymore. Also reapers corrupts are almost all close range, while scourge can ranged easily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RisenHowl.2419 Posted June 1, 2019 Share Posted June 1, 2019 > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > @"Undertow.2389" said: > > > > @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > > You can see from this that toughness becomes less valuable the more defensive modifiers you stack. With no modifiers, 1k more toughness gives you a 33.7% damage reduction. with 3 modifiers, that drops to a 14.1% damage reduction. > > > > > > You are repeating the same mistake I tried to explain. You can't add/subtract percentages like that. You have to multiply/divide. > > > > > > Going from > > > > With RS+RS3+Prot = 934 (58.2% reduction) > > > to > > > > With RS+RS3+Prot = 619 (72.3% reduction) > > > > > > is **not** a 14.1% damage reduction. Look at the actual amount of damage you take, relative to each other. Reducing a hit for 934 to 619 is a 33.7% damage reduction. Exactly the same as with no modifiers. > > > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > But as soon as we went over 2,8-2,9k (like I said, don't know the exact number anymore) the dmg reduction wasn't based on % anymore. Anything above that armor threshold did just give flat dmg reduction. > > > > > > No, here's the damage formula right here: [https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage "https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Damage"). It is very simple, Damage done = (Weapon strength) * Power * (skill-specific coefficient) / (target's Armor). There are no breakpoints or limitations. It is simply "divided by target's Armor". > > > > > > Like I said, you can make plenty of arguments against toughness (and I'm not claiming it is great) such as it doesn't help against condition damage or that doing more damage and killing faster is a superior strategy, but you can't claim that toughness is bad because it simply doesn't stack. > > > > > > > starting from total damage, that's exactly how it works. > > > > each point of toughness reduces the remaining damage after all of the modifers have been put in. so while you will continue to take 33.7% less damage with toughness, the starting pool of damage taken remains the same and the overall gain from toughness decreases the more modifiers that are used. ie, toughness becomes less effective the more damage reduction you have. > > > > if you take 2237 base and have RS+RS3+prot you take 934 damage, or 41.8% of the original > > if you take 2237 base and have RS+RS3+prot+toughness you take 619 damage, or 27.7% of the original > > > > the damage reduced by toughness with buffs is 315. the damage reduced by toughness with no buffs is 754. toughness provides over 50% less benefit with damage reduction modifiers up. This means you should run damage reduction modifers instead of stacking toughness since applying them costs you no offensive stats while putting toughness on a build does. > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > @"Stand The Wall.6987" said: > > > > > @"Nimon.7840" said: > > > > > Yes lich can do massive dmg but first problem: > > > > > -most of the times you will kill your allies with lich autos, due to some reflects > > > > > Second: > > > > > -going into lich is like putting a huge mark on your head, saying: "here I am, pls kill me" > > > > > > > > > > Yes reaper can be fun, but isn't anywhere near as effective as scourge. Reaper cannot be healed in shroud, doesn't give barrier to allies or cleanses conditions, isn't as good in corrupting as scourge. > > > > > > > > > > Necro is meant to be corrupt boons, so pls corrupt boons. That may not amplify your dmg, but the dmg of the whole group you're playing with, while reducing enemies offensive power. > > > > > > > > which is why I cast nothing can save you before entering lich. > > > > which is why I have toughness and try to time it right. > > > > > > > > if support is handled, reaper can be very effective. its not unheard of to do double the damage of a scourge. reaper corrupts more boons then scourge. > > > > > > Reaper doesn't corrupt more boons than scourge > > > > scourge f2 corrupts 1 boon while reaper RS2 corrupts 2, and it's on a lower CD. other than that they have all the same corruption tools unless you run harbringer's shroud on scourge, but really who are you going to hit with a 3s delay? > > But scourge corrupts 1 boon on 10 targets in a large area, while reaper only in small radius, also don't forget punishment skills. Breach and trail, both that reaper doesn't have access to> @"RisenHowl.2419" said: > > > @"ruller.2084" said: > > > > > > > > Reaper doesn't corrupt more boons than scourge > > > > > > > > scourge f2 corrupts 1 boon while reaper RS2 corrupts 2, and it's on a lower CD. other than that they have all the same corruption tools unless you run harbringer's shroud on scourge, but really who are you going to hit with a 3s delay? > > > > > > A ton of people if youre not bad, scourge can corrupt quite a few more. Scourge has courrupts from Sand Flare, Breach, - edit nvm I wont name all of them out but literally every scourge utility skill corrupts boons. > > > > If you're landing harbringer's shroud, you're fighting bad people or you're bombing from a wall. 3s is a long kitten time in pvp/wvw. > > > > Sand flare you should be using to protect your party from Herald bombs, but the corrupt is melee range. It contributes little corrupt-wise in a fight. Trail of anguish and breach I can agree on completely though, I forgot about them corrupting. > > > > Reaper corrupts 2 + blind + chill every 6s in shroud, faster if you're using AAs since they reduce shroud cd. Scourge has nothing that often =/ > > That's also not true, f2 on scourge is 8 seconds cd and isn't tied to shroud. > While also doing cripple, torment and vulnerability in most cases. > While as reaper you can't stay in rs forever. > > Also you can easily go spite/curses on scourge (yeah drops a bit of f2 cd) but corrupts even more boons and at this point, reaper can't compete anymore. > Also reapers corrupts are almost all close range, while scourge can ranged easily. My bad, you are right man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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