Can "All Stats" be unified?

[Crystal Black.8190]

Hi,

 

could it please be made consistent what the game means with "all stats"?(Most?) Runes for example give true all stats including expertise and concentration. The sigil of stars and celestial equipment, which is also labeled as "all stats" doesnt include expertise and concentration. It would be less confusing if all things that talk about "all stats" mean the same. In my opinion that should include expertise and concentration, but maybe there are reasons why it doesnt, except being an old stat combination before the days of these two new stats. At least decide what it should mean instead of the blurry thing it is now.

[Erasculio.2914]

I strongly agree. ArenaNet's counter argument would probably be that Celestial gear doesn't give "all stats", rather the specific list of stats that exclude expertise and concentration; but let's be honest, that's just a technicality. Having a single definition of "all stats" and using it for all equipment types that give bonuses to most stats would be far better than the mess we have today.

[archmagus.7249]

I thought they did at some point, just not with the celestial prefix.

[Ayrilana.1396]

If those were added, the existing stats would need to be reduced to compensate.

[phs.6089]

Runes were reworked recently to include those 2 stats. Celestial with concentration and expertise, would be more meme on my cele ele, so I'm all up for it :)

[Tanner Blackfeather.6509]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> If those were added, the existing stats would need to be reduced to compensate.

 

That argument isn't 100% watertight. As I understand it (I didn't play back then), Celestial has already seen a stat *removed* once - Magic Find - with no compensation.

[Emberstone.2904]

> @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > If those were added, the existing stats would need to be reduced to compensate.

>

> That argument isn't 100% watertight. As I understand it (I didn't play back then), Celestial has already seen a stat *removed* once - Magic Find - with no compensation.

 

To be fair, that bonus didn't provide any combat benefit.

 

That said, I don't think updating the rune to include the newer stats would be a big deal. They aren't really competitive right now.

[Crystal Black.8190]

Updating the sigil and food for example will most likely have no game impact at all, except that all stats would include all stats. Adding concentration and expertise to celestial might have one. In pve it doesn't matter what you play in most content anyway and for raids it would have not t enough damage or healing or basically not enough of everything. There might be a problem in wvw, but I am not sure the impact would be too big. Once celestial was a solid choice for a hybrid play style that offered damage and sustain, but with the addition of HoT and PoF stats these exist now for a while in wvw.

 

What is more important for me personally is not to have to check the wiki what a all stat means this time.

[sephiroth.4217]

My DD Tempest would love to see concentration and expertise on Celestial gear, especially for PvP.

 

First it needs a fix though as this fire aura bug has basically gutted the class to unplayable.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I'd rather ANet updated the jargon to be more clear. I think it's arbitrary to ask for "all stats" to be used in every situation, without a compelling gameplay need.

 

 

[VDAC.2137]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> If those were added, the existing stats would need to be reduced to compensate.

 

As this does seem probable, I would rather that Celestial stats stay as they are now.

 

 

[Erasculio.2914]

> @"VDAC.2137" said:

> As this does seem probable, I would rather that Celestial stats stay as they are now.

In other hand, Celestial is so weak right now that even adding Concentration and Expertise would likely still not make it a very desired stat combination.

 

 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Cele with Exp. and Conc?

 

Give me that NOW!

[tim.4596]

> @"DanAlcedo.3281" said:

> Cele with Exp. and Conc?

>

> Give me that NOW!

 

They should do like a Gen 2.0 Celestial armor with True All stats :)

 

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> If those were added, the existing stats would need to be reduced to compensate.

Only if your goal was for them to remain useless. Honestly, they aren't really properly balanced now. Just adding expertise and concentration won't make them much more desirable. At best, it may make a few more people willing to use those for some niche builds, but in the end they'll still be underpowered.

 

[archmagus.7249]

> @"Emberstone.2904" said:

> > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > If those were added, the existing stats would need to be reduced to compensate.

> >

> > That argument isn't 100% watertight. As I understand it (I didn't play back then), Celestial has already seen a stat *removed* once - Magic Find - with no compensation.

>

> To be fair, that bonus didn't provide any combat benefit.

>

> That said, I don't think updating the rune to include the newer stats would be a big deal. They aren't really competitive right now.

 

Magic find was removed as a stat for gear, and instead we salvage for essence of luck. Runes which say "all stats" include concentration and expertise; equipping a full set of leadership runes will net you 27.4% boon duration. Celestial gear was introduced before concentration and expertise were introduced as actual stats in HoT. Before that, boon duration was only increased via runes, food, traits, or doubloons. Condition duration was even harder to increase; either traits, runes and sigils, and pizza (which was really expensive).

[Khisanth.2948]

> @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > If those were added, the existing stats would need to be reduced to compensate.

>

> That argument isn't 100% watertight. As I understand it (I didn't play back then), Celestial has already seen a stat *removed* once - Magic Find - with no compensation.

 

It has also been nerfed for providing too much.

 

There is also the ridiculously obvious fact that MF has no impact on combat which is what balance is actually based on.

[joneirikb.7506]

Pointing out that the runes and other items that does give concentration/expertize is a very recent addition, think it came with the rune-rehab update. So it's pretty recent addition, so the fact that they didn't add it to Celestial gear can be taken in different ways:

 

* They're not going to add it

* They're considering it, watching how the other upgrades play out first

* Least likely: It's on the to-do list, they just haven't had time for it yet.

[Einlanzer.1627]

They just need to add expertise and concentration to Celestial IMO. It's not like that set performs well today. My hunch is that they will eventually, but they're waiting to see if other adjustments are needed first.

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Khisanth.2948" said:

> > @"Tanner Blackfeather.6509" said:

> > > @"Ayrilana.1396" said:

> > > If those were added, the existing stats would need to be reduced to compensate.

> >

> > That argument isn't 100% watertight. As I understand it (I didn't play back then), Celestial has already seen a stat *removed* once - Magic Find - with no compensation.

>

> It has also been nerfed for providing too much.

>

> There is also the ridiculously obvious fact that MF has no impact on combat which is what balance is actually based on.

You forget that it was specifically the MF stat that made celestial so desirable initially. It was simply way better than the two other options, that had MF as a major stat in a three-stat combo. Removing it reduced the armor value many times over then.

Yes, at some point, it was a bit OP, but only in PvP (and only because you couldn't match and mix different stat sets there - it was simply the only choice for any build that benefitted from more than 3 stats). In PvE, it was always significantly underpowered compared to its alternatives, and (outside of the short stint as the MF set) was always more of a curiosity than a serious choice for anything.