With the focus on Soulbeast, did we forget about Holo?

[Solori.6025]

> @"Noha.3749" said:

> IMO

> Boonfarting is the issue on both holo and soulbeast.

> Without the massive boonoutput their damage and sustain would probably be on par with most.

>

> Also this is probably more of an issue on Soulbeast than Holo due to Holo animations being INCREDIBLY telegraphed and relatively slow.

> I mean you can see a Photonsayan miles away due to all sparkling effects and animations? You know the moment he goes supersayan he will slam the head on the keyboard so as long as you are expecting the combo you should be able to evade it (unless you getting +1 by holo..)

 

 

Holo forge skills are very short CD skills and have a very large impact. Just like with the warrior. These skills are very telegraphed, but the CD ( especially for an AoE CC that has vertical properties AND can also go through walls) is a little short, and the significance of the majority of these skills means you MUST dodge, or waste DCD's.

In a prolonged fight. Engineer has very little contest.

It is the perfect example of giving people the illusion that they are having a fair fight. When in reality it was in favor of the holosmith from the initial engagement.

[Dirame.8521]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Dirame.8521" said:

> > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > > @"Dirame.8521" said:

> > > > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > > @"Dirame.8521" said:

> > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > > > > @"Dirame.8521" said:

> > > > > > > > > Condi Deadeye can beat Prot Holo..... researched and tested.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" said:

> > > > > > > > > > > [https://clips.twitch.tv/PluckyImportantSandstormArsonNoSexy](https://clips.twitch.tv/PluckyImportantSandstormArsonNoSexy "https://clips.twitch.tv/PluckyImportantSandstormArsonNoSexy") Just going to share this here from last nights stream.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > But i was told no holo worth their salt would continue pressing the attack after using their healing skill.

> > > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > > Also tWeNtTy PeRcEnT tO nInEtY pErCeNt IsN't A fUlL hEaL.

> > > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > > The Holo clearly had cooldowns to win that fight. The Holo hadn't even used his overcharged shot. Mr Angel could've won that in the blink of an eye. That burst he got was glorious, if he had used Shield of Wrath a few seconds before teleport spin to win, that would have been an even more glorious burst. But he popped his shield of courage instead which was just a bad decision at that moment. @"AngelLovesFredrik.6741" Never pop your shield of courage against an Engie power spec, it's the most annoying thing you have against them. Only pop it if you're REALLY desperate, you weren't desperate there. You could've won that easy.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > time ability is just asking to get dodged. In which case I would have had nothing.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Well, watching that video, you would have landed it. But hindsight is 20-20 really. Either way, you could've won that. Your VIRTUE of courage (sorry i mistyped earlier) if it was up, could've save you from the Overcharged shot (possibly not definitely). But again hindsight is 20-20.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > And I'm not here for ego. If you can't take constructive criticism, then that's okay. I won't reply to you any longer.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Without the F3, my burst wouldn't have been nearly as big as I used it for the 20% damage modifier. I will never beat holo in an extended fight.

> > > > > Why dont you listen to 1270 rated player? He knows how to play guardian better than you !

> > > >

> > > > HAHAHAHAHAHAH... wait wait wait, you think rating means something? ......HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

> > > >

> > > > Oh boy, i'm sorry that I don't have time to play as much as other people who are higher rated. I really only came back to play GW2 to test out weird specs that people weren't playing. I've spent enough time chasing rank in this game. It gets boring after a while, you know.

> > > Not always,but thats more than hilarious to see how bottom gold players trying to teach actually good players how to play their main.

> > > You found time to play 120+ games. Not all high rated people play that much as you think.

> >

> > 120+ games in 2-3 months? During a season as well? Dude that's nothing compared to what other people have done in the same amount of time.

> >

> > Are you sure you want my credentials? You might be here all day reading them ?

>

> Playing more =/= correlate with high rating. Like, at all. A lot of people who really try hard actually play as few of games as they need to on their main accounts so they are risking their rating less.

 

I did that and I still played more than 120 games across two seasons when I was playing the game more frequently.

 

We've kind of gone away from the topic to trying to discredit my points by saying I don't have the experience to be a critic so we might just want to move away from that and back to the topic.

 

I understand Holosmith to be beatable even with what maths may call 'incredible healing'.

 

If a Condi Deadeye can give a Prot Holo a run for his money then i guess the Condi Deadeye has all the tools to beat a Holosmith and the builds you run against Holos, don't.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Solori.6025" said:

> > @"Noha.3749" said:

> > IMO

> > Boonfarting is the issue on both holo and soulbeast.

> > Without the massive boonoutput their damage and sustain would probably be on par with most.

> >

> > Also this is probably more of an issue on Soulbeast than Holo due to Holo animations being INCREDIBLY telegraphed and relatively slow.

> > I mean you can see a Photonsayan miles away due to all sparkling effects and animations? You know the moment he goes supersayan he will slam the head on the keyboard so as long as you are expecting the combo you should be able to evade it (unless you getting +1 by holo..)

>

>

> Holo forge skills are very short CD skills and have a very large impact. Just like with the warrior. These skills are very telegraphed, but the CD ( especially for an AoE CC that has vertical properties AND can also go through walls) is a little short, and the significance of the majority of these skills means you MUST dodge, or waste DCD's.

> In a prolonged fight. Engineer has very little contest.

> It is the perfect example of giving people the illusion that they are having a fair fight. When in reality it was in favor of the holosmith from the initial engagement.

 

Another thing thing a lot of players also don't realize is that holosmith is tuned to have melee DPS in Photon forge but everything including the auto attack actually have a and extended range, almost twice the range of actual melee range; 130 vs 240.

 

Just like how a lot of players were surprised to find out Mirage actually had a longer 1s dodge instead of the normal 0.75s.

 

Which is just leagues more forgiving as not only is your range larger as you get kited but your cleave area is significantly larger because it still follows melee cleave rules, just with the hight of the triangular damage area extended further.

 

This makes just using photon forge really easy to use and forgiving compared to actual melee. Just compare how much easier it is to actually land melee attacks in Photon Forge compared to something actually melee like a dagger thief.

[Noha.3749]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > @"Noha.3749" said:

> > > IMO

> > > Boonfarting is the issue on both holo and soulbeast.

> > > Without the massive boonoutput their damage and sustain would probably be on par with most.

> > >

> > > Also this is probably more of an issue on Soulbeast than Holo due to Holo animations being INCREDIBLY telegraphed and relatively slow.

> > > I mean you can see a Photonsayan miles away due to all sparkling effects and animations? You know the moment he goes supersayan he will slam the head on the keyboard so as long as you are expecting the combo you should be able to evade it (unless you getting +1 by holo..)

> >

> >

> > Holo forge skills are very short CD skills and have a very large impact. Just like with the warrior. These skills are very telegraphed, but the CD ( especially for an AoE CC that has vertical properties AND can also go through walls) is a little short, and the significance of the majority of these skills means you MUST dodge, or waste DCD's.

> > In a prolonged fight. Engineer has very little contest.

> > It is the perfect example of giving people the illusion that they are having a fair fight. When in reality it was in favor of the holosmith from the initial engagement.

>

> Another thing thing a lot of players also don't realize is that holosmith is tuned to have melee DPS in Photon forge but everything including the auto attack actually have a and extended range, almost twice the range of actual melee range; 130 vs 240.

>

> Just like how a lot of players were surprised to find out Mirage actually had a longer 1s dodge instead of the normal 0.75s.

>

> Which is just leagues more forgiving as not only is your range larger as you get kited but your cleave area is significantly larger because it still follows melee cleave rules, just with the hight of the triangular damage area extended further.

>

> This makes just using photon forge really easy to use and forgiving compared to actual melee. Just compare how much easier it is to actually land melee attacks in Photon Forge compared to something actually melee like a dagger thief.

 

I agree on Holo being forgiving to play, but i still think the main issue is the boonfarting :p

 

Any supersayain mode should be STRONG;

Photon Forge - deepsmode / cc

Reaper shroud - deepsmode

Rampage - burst / cc

 

But still IMO, its the boons that makes it shoot through the roof...

Photon Forge compared to Reaper shroud doesnt suffer as much against CC since it got plenty of stab, "panic" buttons & vigor uptime.

Its almost always safe to go Photon Forge compared to enter Reaper shroud for those reasons...

Rampage is on another level but atleast its locked behind a decent CD (and for engineers part its slightly weaker than for the warrior, though lower CD due to trait........)

 

Reduce stab/vigor uptime and it should be more "fair" to deal with imo.

[bravan.3876]

In terms of reducing power and sustain creep Holo also clearly needs less of both. And Anet needs to decide if it is a dmg build than it can keep like 70- 80% of the current dmg (what i like to call perma mini burst) and sustain needs to be reduced way more. Or if it is a sustain build, then dmg needs to be reduced way more and it can keep 70-80% of its current sustain/ resustain ability. In a 1v1 when you finally get him down to 5% hp after he brainless facetanked everything he just goes in stealth and few secs later he is back full hp. To add some more skill into this class the Holo cds need to be clearly higher and autoattackspam needs to be less rewarding. Atm a bad Holo doesn't get punished for brainless skillspam because of these 2 points. Holo isn't the best side noder correct (means it needs a +1 sooner than other side noder but still can hold a cap very long, too long for the dmg and mobility it has) and that with it wasn't even meant to be able to side node at all, from the basic idea it looks more like a rotational dmg class with good mobility that has too much sustain so it is good to very good in every role you find in conquest.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Noha.3749" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > @"Noha.3749" said:

> > > > IMO

> > > > Boonfarting is the issue on both holo and soulbeast.

> > > > Without the massive boonoutput their damage and sustain would probably be on par with most.

> > > >

> > > > Also this is probably more of an issue on Soulbeast than Holo due to Holo animations being INCREDIBLY telegraphed and relatively slow.

> > > > I mean you can see a Photonsayan miles away due to all sparkling effects and animations? You know the moment he goes supersayan he will slam the head on the keyboard so as long as you are expecting the combo you should be able to evade it (unless you getting +1 by holo..)

> > >

> > >

> > > Holo forge skills are very short CD skills and have a very large impact. Just like with the warrior. These skills are very telegraphed, but the CD ( especially for an AoE CC that has vertical properties AND can also go through walls) is a little short, and the significance of the majority of these skills means you MUST dodge, or waste DCD's.

> > > In a prolonged fight. Engineer has very little contest.

> > > It is the perfect example of giving people the illusion that they are having a fair fight. When in reality it was in favor of the holosmith from the initial engagement.

> >

> > Another thing thing a lot of players also don't realize is that holosmith is tuned to have melee DPS in Photon forge but everything including the auto attack actually have a and extended range, almost twice the range of actual melee range; 130 vs 240.

> >

> > Just like how a lot of players were surprised to find out Mirage actually had a longer 1s dodge instead of the normal 0.75s.

> >

> > Which is just leagues more forgiving as not only is your range larger as you get kited but your cleave area is significantly larger because it still follows melee cleave rules, just with the hight of the triangular damage area extended further.

> >

> > This makes just using photon forge really easy to use and forgiving compared to actual melee. Just compare how much easier it is to actually land melee attacks in Photon Forge compared to something actually melee like a dagger thief.

>

> I agree on Holo being forgiving to play, but i still think the main issue is the boonfarting :p

>

> Any supersayain mode should be STRONG;

> Photon Forge - deepsmode / cc

> Reaper shroud - deepsmode

> Rampage - burst / cc

>

> But still IMO, its the boons that makes it shoot through the roof...

> Photon Forge compared to Reaper shroud doesnt suffer as much against CC since it got plenty of stab, "panic" buttons & vigor uptime.

> Its almost always safe to go Photon Forge compared to enter Reaper shroud for those reasons...

> Rampage is on another level but atleast its locked behind a decent CD (and for engineers part its slightly weaker than for the warrior, though lower CD due to trait........)

>

> Reduce stab/vigor uptime and it should be more "fair" to deal with imo.

 

Reaper Shroud aside from Soul Spiral (300) Reaper Shroud is 170 units, for example.

[Noha.3749]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Noha.3749" said:

> > > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > > @"Solori.6025" said:

> > > > > @"Noha.3749" said:

> > > > > IMO

> > > > > Boonfarting is the issue on both holo and soulbeast.

> > > > > Without the massive boonoutput their damage and sustain would probably be on par with most.

> > > > >

> > > > > Also this is probably more of an issue on Soulbeast than Holo due to Holo animations being INCREDIBLY telegraphed and relatively slow.

> > > > > I mean you can see a Photonsayan miles away due to all sparkling effects and animations? You know the moment he goes supersayan he will slam the head on the keyboard so as long as you are expecting the combo you should be able to evade it (unless you getting +1 by holo..)

> > > >

> > > >

> > > > Holo forge skills are very short CD skills and have a very large impact. Just like with the warrior. These skills are very telegraphed, but the CD ( especially for an AoE CC that has vertical properties AND can also go through walls) is a little short, and the significance of the majority of these skills means you MUST dodge, or waste DCD's.

> > > > In a prolonged fight. Engineer has very little contest.

> > > > It is the perfect example of giving people the illusion that they are having a fair fight. When in reality it was in favor of the holosmith from the initial engagement.

> > >

> > > Another thing thing a lot of players also don't realize is that holosmith is tuned to have melee DPS in Photon forge but everything including the auto attack actually have a and extended range, almost twice the range of actual melee range; 130 vs 240.

> > >

> > > Just like how a lot of players were surprised to find out Mirage actually had a longer 1s dodge instead of the normal 0.75s.

> > >

> > > Which is just leagues more forgiving as not only is your range larger as you get kited but your cleave area is significantly larger because it still follows melee cleave rules, just with the hight of the triangular damage area extended further.

> > >

> > > This makes just using photon forge really easy to use and forgiving compared to actual melee. Just compare how much easier it is to actually land melee attacks in Photon Forge compared to something actually melee like a dagger thief.

> >

> > I agree on Holo being forgiving to play, but i still think the main issue is the boonfarting :p

> >

> > Any supersayain mode should be STRONG;

> > Photon Forge - deepsmode / cc

> > Reaper shroud - deepsmode

> > Rampage - burst / cc

> >

> > But still IMO, its the boons that makes it shoot through the roof...

> > Photon Forge compared to Reaper shroud doesnt suffer as much against CC since it got plenty of stab, "panic" buttons & vigor uptime.

> > Its almost always safe to go Photon Forge compared to enter Reaper shroud for those reasons...

> > Rampage is on another level but atleast its locked behind a decent CD (and for engineers part its slightly weaker than for the warrior, though lower CD due to trait........)

> >

> > Reduce stab/vigor uptime and it should be more "fair" to deal with imo.

>

> Reaper Shroud aside from Soul Spiral (300) Reaper Shroud is 170 units, for example.

 

Well reapers still quite easily reach 100% critchance & perma quickness, so its a fair trade considering they also can get drained of lifeforce quite fast and CCd.

I think the AoE & AA range of Holo is fine but not the vigor/stab, perhaps even taking a slight dump on the might generation aswell.

 

Perhaps im a bit biased though since engineer / thief is my most played professions. I was never fond of holosmith though.

It should be a powerhouse mode but it should be an active decision if the player wants to go ham at the cost of defence OR defensive at the cost of damage.

You shouldnt get access to both with one button...

 

Every deepsmode should result in loss of sustain & durability for the sake of balance...

But there should definitely BE/Remain deepsmodes for the sake of variety and FUN

[Crab Fear.1624]

I guess holo got stealth nerfed. All is well then.

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> I guess holo got stealth nerfed. All is well then.

 

Huh? What are you talking about?

[Crab Fear.1624]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > I guess holo got stealth nerfed. All is well then.

>

> Huh? What are you talking about?

 

It was a poorly worded joke.

 

They are still broke and one of their things like damage, mobility, or sustain need to get nerfed to the ground, or two lowered significantly.

 

They over-perform in all three and equal to, or better than classes pigeonholed into one of those roles.

 

I play thief, and I understand that my damage needs to be lower because I have mobility.

 

These guys and soulbeast can chase me down, prevent the decap, or kill me in the process, and that is with my shortbow and shadowstep.

 

Then they can take on multiple bad guys fights, reset and run away if things get hairy.

 

They can reset because they can stealth and put some distance quickly between themselves and enemies, heal up, and come back hitting just as hard.

 

Normally these mains are the first to complain about my class and mesmer cheeze being broken, but is fine for them.

 

Like, why do they think super high mobility and 1 v x is okay?

 

1 v X is okay, but you need to be slower.

 

Mobility is okay but you need to be weaker.

 

Sustain is okay but you shouldn't be super fast or really beating DPS lords in their own game.

 

When you have the triforce on your side, is there anything you can not do?

 

I get that if I should decide to go toes with either of these, they should kick my ass, but why can they catch me?

 

 

 

 

 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > > @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> > > I guess holo got stealth nerfed. All is well then.

> >

> > Huh? What are you talking about?

>

> It was a poorly worded joke.

>

> They are still broke and one of their things like damage, mobility, or sustain need to get nerfed to the ground, or two lowered significantly.

>

> They over-perform in all three and equal to, or better than classes pigeonholed into one of those roles.

>

> I play thief, and I understand that my damage needs to be lower because I have mobility.

>

> These guys and soulbeast can chase me down, prevent the decap, or kill me in the process, and that is with my shortbow and shadowstep.

>

> Then they can take on multiple bad guys fights, reset and run away if things get hairy.

>

> They can reset because they can stealth and put some distance quickly between themselves and enemies, heal up, and come back hitting just as hard.

>

> Normally these mains are the first to complain about my class and mesmer cheeze being broken, but is fine for them.

>

> Like, why do they think super high mobility and 1 v x is okay?

>

> 1 v X is okay, but you need to be slower.

>

> Mobility is okay but you need to be weaker.

>

> Sustain is okay but you shouldn't be super fast or really beating DPS lords in their own game.

>

> When you have the triforce on your side, is there anything you can not do?

>

> I get that if I should decide to go toes with either of these, they should kick my kitten, but why can they catch me?

>

>

>

>

>

 

Because in arenanet balance fashion the keep buffing most classes to be able to deal with the strengths classes like thief/mesmer have but totally disregard what they'd need to do with thief etc to be able to now hang with classes that now can handle their strengths resulting in weak classes. A class balanced around squishy,fast burst and mobility gets its bursts lowered while other classes bursts/mobility raised making thief, mesmer or ele's strengths not so meaningful.

[Burnfall.9573]

today couple of my guild players begged me to play with them. Not even 5 minutes later, 6 of us encountered Toxic Holosmith; similar like this video. I was on my Ranger and even tried to 1vs1 this Toxicity; I died twice, I was not happy and even went to change my build to the glassiest Ranger build. That didn't have any effect on the Toxic Holosmith at all.

 

That fight lasted about 20 minutes until a Mesmer+1 shot it wearing Legendary armor with Legendary gears. This Mesmer was amazing; we were all amazed.

 

In conclusion; Holosmith need to be severely nerfed to the ground without exception. It shouldn't take a Legendary Mesmer to kill it; all professions must counter each other profession.-Not only Mesmer!!

 

 

**Most importantly, Absolutely NO professions should be rewarded with having risks all at the same time-Not Ever!!**

 

IT IS RISK VS REWARD=PERIOD!!

**NOT RISK+REWARD= ALL AT THE SAME TIME, NOT RISK+REWARD= ALL AT THE SAME TIME**

 

As a Ranger and Necromancer main; I vote for all professions to be severely dealt with but first; Thief must be removed from the game as the sole longest running most dangerous Toxic profession in the game since Guild Wars 2 release.

 

**Thief is the only profession who remain immune to nerfs**

 

**Of course; to redesign Thief in a healthy competitive risk-reward way**

 

(Also not to forget; nerf Warrior's bow-Ranger bow should be the only long range weapon that should hit the hardest-NOT Warriors!!)

 

 

 

[Math.5123]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> today couple of my guild players begged me to play with them. Not even 5 minutes later, 6 of us encountered Toxic Holosmith; similar like this video. I was on my Ranger and even tried to 1vs1 this Toxicity; I died twice, I was not happy and even went to change my build to the glassiest Ranger build. That didn't have any effect on the Toxic Holosmith at all.

>

> That fight lasted about 20 minutes until a Mesmer+1 shot it wearing Legendary armor with Legendary gears. This Mesmer was amazing; we were all amazed.

>

> In conclusion; Holosmith need to be severely nerfed to the ground without exception. It shouldn't take a Legendary Mesmer to kill it; all professions must counter each other profession.-Not only Mesmer!!

>

>

> **Most importantly, Absolutely NO professions should be rewarded with having risks all at the same time-Not Ever!!**

>

> IT IS RISK VS REWARD=PERIOD!!

> **NOT RISK+REWARD= ALL AT THE SAME TIME, NOT RISK+REWARD= ALL AT THE SAME TIME**

>

> As a Ranger and Necromancer main; I vote for all professions to be severely dealt with but first; Thief must be removed from the game as the sole longest running most dangerous Toxic profession in the game since Guild Wars 2 release.

>

> **Thief is the only profession who remain immune to nerfs**

>

> **Of course; to redesign Thief in a healthy competitive risk-reward way**

>

> (Also not to forget; nerf Warrior's bow-Ranger bow should be the only long range weapon that should hit the hardest-NOT Warriors!!)

>

>

>

>

 

Obligatory link to a wvw video in the PvP discord. You never fail us buddy.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

Lol wonder if Berny had a straight face when he typed only thief remains immune to nerfs lmao. A ranger player calling thief toxic and op, gw2 forum members never cease to amaze me. Berny no offence but ur biased rally to delete thief is to the point of being extremely TOXIC lol

[White Kitsunee.4620]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> **Thief is the only profession who remain immune to nerfs**

>

> **Of course; to redesign Thief in a healthy competitive risk-reward way**

 

>

 

I'm really curious how you would make a healthy competitive class, please enlighten us.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"White Kitsunee.4620" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > **Thief is the only profession who remain immune to nerfs**

> >

> > **Of course; to redesign Thief in a healthy competitive risk-reward way**

>

> >

>

> I'm really curious how you would make a healthy competitive class, please enlighten us.

 

Lmoa I just asked him the same question on another post. How would he design a rogue like class that's very squishy and slippery by nature. How would he design this classic archetype to be viable against classes designed with higher hp/sustain lol. Be a interesting read

[mortrialus.3062]

> @"White Kitsunee.4620" said:

> > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > **Thief is the only profession who remain immune to nerfs**

> >

> > **Of course; to redesign Thief in a healthy competitive risk-reward way**

>

> >

>

> I'm really curious how you would make a healthy competitive class, please enlighten us.

 

Burnfall's answer is just going to be "Look at Guild Wars 1!"

[Psycoprophet.8107]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> > @"White Kitsunee.4620" said:

> > > @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> > > **Thief is the only profession who remain immune to nerfs**

> > >

> > > **Of course; to redesign Thief in a healthy competitive risk-reward way**

> >

> > >

> >

> > I'm really curious how you would make a healthy competitive class, please enlighten us.

>

> Burnfall's answer is just going to be "Look at Guild Wars 1!"

 

No he posted article on proper rogue balancing stating their usually balanced around being squishy/low hp with high evasion and massive dps or if not massive dps access to massive critical multipliers to counter balance their squishy nature. Also stated they usually use increased mobility, stealth and underhanded tactics to apply their either massive dps or massive crit multipliers. I told him not so sure what point of article was cuz sounds exactly like something he'd call OP and toxic lmao. Definitely sounded like what Andy tried going for before they listened and started nerfing their damage among other things. Its funny cuz article mentioned its similar to a squishy mage usually having massive dps due to its squishy mess and difficulty to get all its spell casts off. Remember ele staff? Lol a class that's squishy and more complex to play isn't even allowed to do massive dps in this game lmao but sic em etc is fine. That's why as bad as it sounds arenet should not listen to the majority of its players whining.

[Burnfall.9573]

[Holo] Outnumbered Roaming--so many rewards for free risks?/ Unbelievable seriously!!

(It's not the player but Toxic balancing is to blamed for it)

 

[FtoPScrub.5476]

Heat therapy is a stupid amount of sustain especially for a minor master. Shit needs to be halved and holo will be good

[Burnfall.9573]

was hit with over 5k damage by Engineer skill; Mortar Shot. With a bad design 1/2 second cool-down, this Engineer was spamming this broken skill happily.

 

**Can i really blame this Engineer for being given unlimited free rewards without risking anything for it really?**

 

I was not only alarmed by its bad design cool-down but its damage entirely. (Of course this shouldn't come down as a total surprise because its Guild Wars 2 aftereall where a game where you can spam the most bad design broken skill and mechanics all you want unlimitedly, freely, without repercussion)

 

--whoever spams the most= Wins---

 

( **Don't Let Toxicity Get The Last Laugh Of You** :3 )

 

So in conclusion; smile and have a good day :)

[MrForz.1953]

> @"Burnfall.9573" said:

> was hit with over 5k damage by Engineer skill; Mortar Shot. With a bad design 1/2 second cool-down, this Engineer was spamming this broken skill happily.

 

That's usually what happens when you're butt naked with 25 vuln stacks.

 

> @"FtoPScrub.5476" said:

> Heat therapy is a stupid amount of sustain especially for a minor master. kitten needs to be halved and holo will be good

 

Yeah I'm sure it will fix everything.

 

 

[Crab Fear.1624]

I don't feel like holo really got brought to a reasonable level with this last balance patch.

 

Still seems to easy to do everything, and who overheats anymore?

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"Crab Fear.1624" said:

> I don't feel like holo really got brought to a reasonable level with this last balance patch.

>

> Still seems to easy to do everything, and who overheats anymore?

 

Most of the nerfs affected PvE holo more than they affected PvP holo. PvE builds relied upon [Photonic Blasting Module](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Photonic_Blasting_Module "Photonic Blasting Module") as part of their rotation, which means intentionally overheating.

 

However, there was one nerf in PvP that did reduce the overall damage holo does -- that was the nerf to [laser's edge](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Laser%27s_Edge "laser's edge"). Dynamic damage increases are less reliable, and almost always mean you will never do the exact maximum listed because you never can do anything at 100% heat without overheating and facing much harsher penalties.

 

The multiplicative bit is a very tiny buff, but not as important as the dynamic scaling, because if you do the math, it's a relatively small improvement. Say you have a sigil of exploitation (+5%), rune of strength (+5%), and the laser's edge buff (at maximum), your damage would be calculated like this:

 

* Additive Example: 1 + 0.15 + 0.10 = 1.25

* Multiplicative Example: 1 x 1.15 x 1.10 = 1.265

 

Even in hypothetical, ideal scenarios, the multiplicative buff never increases damage by more than a percentage point or two.

[ZhouX.8742]

People will never stop complaining about ranger. People even complain about druid still and nobody plays the elite spec.

 

"Most of the nerfs affected PvE holo more than they affected PvP holo. PvE builds relied upon Photonic Blasting Module as part of their rotation, which means intentionally overheating."

 

Are utilities a part of holo rotation in PvE for damage? I didn't think they were but could be wrong.

 

The reason why holo is such a big deal now is because rangers were taking unstoppable union and eating through holo's 1 block causing him to force S early on in fights and if a holo can't land corona he has no stab which is pretty much an auto S pop anyway if you get 1 cc on him.

 

This is why clueless people who don't know how to fight holo cry about him. Avoid corona , no stab = cc, They have 1 block. Bait it. You can no force s elixir in fight. It changes the fight drastically.