What is the Point of Malicious and Healer's?

[Asum.4960]

With the new stat selections, Healers and Malicious barely have any selections left, while Assaulter's and Defender's support a vast amount of selections.

So even if you want to make a Condi DPS, Assaulters is the best category to look at over Malicious and if you want to make a Healer, Defender's and Assaulter's has what you need, with a lot of Healing power sets missing from Healer's.

 

Why not just remove Healer's and Malicious and split everything into Assaulter and Defender?

As it is currently, it's much more confusing than it was before the rework imo.

 

 

 

/E: for reference:

Total sets available from each category:

 

Assaulter: 20

Defender: 17

Malicious: 12 (with only 3 being uniquely in Malicious, _Bringer, Carrion, and Rabid_)

Healer: 11 ( with only 3 being uniquely in Healer, _Apothecary, Cleric and Magi_)

_Seraph_ being only in both Healer's and Malicious.

 

If Apothecary, Cleric, Magi and Seraph was moved to Defender, and Bringer, Carrion, Rabid and Seraph to Assaulter, there wouldn't be any need for Malicious or Healer's at all, with a choice between Assaulter for generally offensive stat combinations (Power or Condition Damage) and Defender's for generally defensive stat combinations (Boon/Heal Support or Tanky) being a much more intuitive and clear choice.

 

Alternatively, add sets with healing power, main stat or not, generally used for healers, back to Healer's, etc. to avoid confusion and miss buys.

This current categorisation has both massive overlaps, as well as missing crucial stat types generally associated with a certain category in those categories, which is quite the feat.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> With the new stat selections, Healers and Malicious barely have any selections left, while Assaulter's and Defender's support a vast amount of selections.

> So even if you want to make a Condi DPS, Assaulters is the best category to look at over Malicious and if you want to make a Healer, Defender's and Assaulter's has what you need, with a lot of Healing power sets missing from Healer's.

>

> Why not just remove Healer's and Malicious and split everything into Assaulter and Defender?

> As it is currently, it's much more confusing than it was before the rework imo.

 

More than likely because coming in this upcoming living world season and the next expansion those categories will get expanded and built upon. It's more setting up for the future to make it more accessible and more polished so adding things would be simpler and easier to do.

[Asum.4960]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > With the new stat selections, Healers and Malicious barely have any selections left, while Assaulter's and Defender's support a vast amount of selections.

> > So even if you want to make a Condi DPS, Assaulters is the best category to look at over Malicious and if you want to make a Healer, Defender's and Assaulter's has what you need, with a lot of Healing power sets missing from Healer's.

> >

> > Why not just remove Healer's and Malicious and split everything into Assaulter and Defender?

> > As it is currently, it's much more confusing than it was before the rework imo.

>

> More than likely because coming in this upcoming living world season and the next expansion those categories will get expanded and built upon. It's more setting up for the future to make it more accessible and more polished so adding things would be simpler and easier to do.

 

It's exceptionally counter intuitive though that if you want to for example make a Healing Scourge, Assaulter, Defender and Malicious all have the healing stat sets you need, while they are largely missing from Healer's.

 

Harrier isn't "Assaulter", just because it has Power as main stat, it's a support set.

Shaman is a healing set, but is in everything but Healer's, because Healing Power isn't a main stat.

Diviner isn't a healing set just because it has Concentration.

At the same time, Harrier is also in Defender's, even though it doesn't have any Toughness or Vitality.

 

Even if these categories are to be expanded in the future, this current selection/categorisation just doesn't make sense and is less accessible than before the change.

 

There is no reason for Malicious or Healer's to exist currently as they are just a very limited selection of what is also mostly in Assaulter's and Defender's, all while missing crucial stat sets associated with Condition and Support stat sets, making them worse than Assaulter's and Defender's in every way.

Even if they are to be expanded in the future, it will still be more confusing than ever.

 

Either add everything with Healing Power and Concentration to Healer's and everything with Condition Damage and Expertise to Malicious, regardless of Main stats, or condense everything into simply Assaulter's and Defender's, because this is a confusing mess.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

I can't speak to whether ANet's version is best for the game in the long run. It is, however, simple to learn and explain.

****

 

> Harrier isn't "Assaulter", just because it has Power as main stat, it's a support set.

That's exactly why Harrier belongs in Assaulter: because it has power as a main stat. ANet didn't used a specific set of criteria. Those might not match your vision of how to divide stats into four groups; that doesn't make it wrong or bad.

 

The advantage of ANet's system is that it doesn't require any build-crafting expertise to know which set to pick from a vendor. I want power as a primary? I go to Assaulter's.

 

> because this is a confusing mess.

On the contrary, I find it simpler than your original alternative of grouping stats by theoretical utility.

The very advantage of your proposal is that it's not simplistic.

 

 

[Asum.4960]

> @"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:

> I can't speak to whether ANet's version is best for the game in the long run. It is, however, simple to learn and explain.

> ****

>

> > Harrier isn't "Assaulter", just because it has Power as main stat, it's a support set.

> That's exactly why Harrier belongs in Assaulter: because it has power as a main stat. ANet didn't used a specific set of criteria. Those might not match your vision of how to divide stats into four groups; that doesn't make it wrong or bad.

>

> The advantage of ANet's system is that it doesn't require any build-crafting expertise to know which set to pick from a vendor. I want power as a primary? I go to Assaulter's.

>

> > because this is a confusing mess.

> On the contrary, I find it simpler than your original alternative of grouping stats by theoretical utility.

> The very advantage of your proposal is that it's not simplistic.

 

 

Getting Healing/Support stat sets from Healer's, Power DPS sets from Assaulters, Condi DPS sets from Malicious and Tanky/Support sets from Defenders, or simply choosing between Assaulter and Defender seems pretty simplistic to me.

Not sure why that would requite build-crafting expertise, on the contrary.

 

I can't imagine a new playing thinking, "I want to make a Healer, so Assaulter, Malicious or Defender's is obviously what I have to get, since almost all the good support builds people have crafted aren't actually using Healing Power or Concentration as main stat, making Healer's irrelevant."

Without build crafting expertise, I imagine you would suspect the Healer's subset to provide you with all the gear used on healers, not having to put it together from multiple different sets, including everything but Healer's in some cases.

But if that's just me, then fair enough.

 

The only thing that's easy to explain about it, is that you can say to always just get Assaulter, since it contains the meta Power DPS stats, Condi DPS stats and Support/Healer stats, while everything more niche you have to search together by main stat distribution (or not, in cases like Harrier also being in Defender's for no reason), because that makes sense or is indicative of the purpose of the stat set...

 

It's hardly some theoretical utility, rather than the practical application of the stat sets since launch, or whenever they were introduced later.

Harrier was never and will never be used as a power DPS set, associated with Assaulter.

When you think Harrier you think Healing Power and Concentration, not power damage. The reason Anet decided to put Harrier into Defender's, even though by their own categorisation it doesn't belong there, I think pretty clearly shows that even they thought it would be confusing not to find it there, but in Assaulter's instead.

 

Main stats are not necessarily indicative of the function of a stat set, especially when it comes to Support sets, which is where this categorisation falls flat.

Almost everything sports Power as Main stat, even support and condi sets, and it shows by how bloated Assaulter's is, while categories like Healer's and Malicious struggle to find an excuse to exist within this categorisation.

[Trise.2865]

Why does it matter how many options each category has if you will always get the (available) stat set that you want?

[VDAC.2137]

I see the point in making it more straightforward, based purely on main stat what is in what box, but it does make some of the options, specifically Healer’s much less useful as has been detailed above. Maybe every spec should be in every box any of its stats apply to (Harrier’s in Assaulter and Healer, Soldier in Assaulter and Defender, etc.). Or why do we need these categories at all instead of just select a weight and then select a stat — any stat?

 

I’m not complaining about how it is now but these categories seem to be a complication without benefit that I can see. And I fear it will hurt newer players most as they may get drops not useful to them (except what can be changed in forge) or, not knowing how gear is arranged, buy Healer’s for something like Harrier because it is obviously a support stat having both healing power and concentration.

 

 

[Asum.4960]

> @"Trise.2865" said:

> Why does it matter how many options each category has if you will always get the (available) stat set that you want?

 

If it didn't matter they would hardly have changed it.

It's important QoL and useful for streamlining the player experience. Aside from that, the point is you will not always get the stat sets you want any more.

 

My heal scourge for example was geared with the Meta Shaman/Marshal mix, utilizing some Healer's trinkets, which have been reset with the patch and now don't offer Shaman any more, forcing me to regear it, since the Healer's category is now missing that commonly used healing stat set, which is now instead only in Defender's and Malicious.

Now for me, having piles of gear in my bank after playing for 7 years, that's not an issue to figure out and do. For new/less involved players I see this being more confusing than before, if not downright counter intuitive or frustrating.

If I get some Healer's gear, I would expect it to have at least all commonly used Healing Power sets in it.

 

The point is, categorizing by main stats doesn't make sense, especially when it comes to support stat sets, and is bound to confuse especially new players, more so than the previous iteration.

Why change something if you make it worse?

 

How is it not confusing to get Assaulter's gear no matter if you want to gear a Harrier Healer, Viper Condi DPS or Berserker Power DPS, and what is the point of having Malicious or Healer's at all, if the single somewhat useful/commonly used stat set exclusive to them is Magi in Healer's, with even that being somewhat niche?

 

Why not condense them into simply Assaulter's and Defender's to reduce confusion and miss buys, as well as increasing loot parity?

Getting Healer's gear, unless you specifically want to make some Magi gear, is just a dud now, compared to dropping Assaulter or Defender.

Similarly Malicious, which was sought after primarily for Viper's, is now largely irrelevant with that being added to the long list of things in Assaulter's.

[starlinvf.1358]

> @"VDAC.2137" said:

> I see the point in making it more straightforward, based purely on main stat what is in what box, but it does make some of the options, specifically Healer’s much less useful as has been detailed above. Maybe every spec should be in every box any of its stats apply to (Harrier’s in Assaulter and Healer, Soldier in Assaulter and Defender, etc.). Or why do we need these categories at all instead of just select a weight and then select a stat — any stat?

>

> I’m not complaining about how it is now but these categories seem to be a complication without benefit that I can see. And I fear it will hurt newer players most as they may get drops not useful to them (except what can be changed in forge) or, not knowing how gear is arranged, buy Healer’s for something like Harrier because it is obviously a support stat having both healing power and concentration.

>

>

 

They're divided up because of drops. Its pretty obvious they don't want all items to be perfectly matching, for a pretty big list of reasons concerning player psychology. And no.... not all of them are predatory. A similar reason Fractal drops are mostly stat specific; as at one point they were trying to replicate WoW dungeon and some of its gear grinding tactics.

[Jski.6180]

Illusion of chose and build diversity.

[VDAC.2137]

> @"starlinvf.1358" said:

> > @"VDAC.2137" said:

> > I see the point in making it more straightforward, based purely on main stat what is in what box, but it does make some of the options, specifically Healer’s much less useful as has been detailed above. Maybe every spec should be in every box any of its stats apply to (Harrier’s in Assaulter and Healer, Soldier in Assaulter and Defender, etc.). Or why do we need these categories at all instead of just select a weight and then select a stat — any stat?

> >

> > I’m not complaining about how it is now but these categories seem to be a complication without benefit that I can see. And I fear it will hurt newer players most as they may get drops not useful to them (except what can be changed in forge) or, not knowing how gear is arranged, buy Healer’s for something like Harrier because it is obviously a support stat having both healing power and concentration.

> >

> >

>

> They're divided up because of drops. Its pretty obvious they don't want all items to be perfectly matching, for a pretty big list of reasons concerning player psychology. And no.... not all of them are predatory. A similar reason Fractal drops are mostly stat specific; as at one point they were trying to replicate WoW dungeon and some of its gear grinding tactics.

 

Who said anything about it being predatory??? I see that word being thrown around far too much these days. :unamused: I am not making any nonsensical accusations or even complaining. I only think that the categories could be improved, if they’re going to be kept. That is all.

[VDAC.2137]

I (and perhaps others here?) misunderstood how these stat sets were being changed: I bought a Raider’s headgear with healing stats yesterday for Minstrel but I saw that Harrier was still an option along with many others. :)

[Asum.4960]

The current selections are:

 

Assaulter:

>! 1. Assassin

>! 2. Berserker

>! 3. Cavalier

>! 4. Celestial

>! 5. Commander

>! 6. Crusader

>! 7. Diviner

>! 8. Grieving

>! 9. Harrier

>! 10. Knight

>! 11. Marauder

>! 12. Marshal

>! 13. Rampager

>! 14. Sinister

>! 15. Soldier

>! 16. Valkyrie

>! 17. Vigilant

>! 18. Viper

>! 19. Wanderer

>! 20. Zealot

 

Defender:

>! 1. Cavalier

>! 2. Celestial

>! 3. Crusader

>! 4. Dire

>! 5. Giver

>! 6. Harrier

>! 7. Knight

>! 8. Minstrel

>! 9. Nomad

>! 10. Plaguedoctor

>! 11. Sentinel

>! 12. Settler

>! 13. Shaman

>! 14. Soldier

>! 15. Trailblazer

>! 16. Vigilant

>! 17. Wanderer

 

Healer:

>! 1. Apothecary

>! 2. Celestial

>! 3. Cleric

>! 4. Diviner

>! 5. Giver

>! 6. Harrier

>! 7. Magi

>! 8. Marshal

>! 9. Minstrel

>! 10. Plaguedoctor

>! 11. Seraph

 

Malicious:

>! 1. Bringer

>! 2. Carrion

>! 3. Celestial

>! 4. Dire

>! 5. Grieving

>! 6. Plaguedoctor

>! 7. Rabid

>! 8. Seraph

>! 9. Shaman

>! 10. Sinister

>! 11. Trailblazer

>! 12. Viper

 

 

 

The point I was trying to make is that with this type of categorisation for example Shaman, which is a Healer's stat set with Healing Power used on a Meta Healer, isn't in Healer's, while for example Diviner's, which has nothing to do with healing at all, is in Healer's, and how inconsistencies like that will most likely be more confusing than the old system, let alone the alternatives I proposed.

 

In addition to that, in terms of loot parity, Assaulter's and Defender's are vastly superior categories to drop than Healer's and Malicious, offering not only a wider selection of choices, but also offering almost all of the same stat sets that are in Healer's and Malicious as well, with the exception of only 3 each, making them pretty redundant.

 

If all the commonly used Condition Damage sets already are in Assaulter's, then why have Malicious at all instead of just adding the just 3 missing stat sets to Assaulter as well and scrapping Malicious, making the whole thing a lot more player friendly?

Same goes for Defender's offering almost all that Healer's offers and much more.

 

Why not just do something along the lines of:

 

 

Assaulter:

>! 1. Assassin

>! 2. Berserker

>! 3. Carrion

>! 4. Cavalier

>! 5. Celestial

>! 6. Commander

>! 7. Diviner

>! 8. Grieving

>! 9. Knight

>! 10. Marauder

>! 11. Marshal

>! 12. Rabid

>! 13. Rampager

>! 14. Seraph

>! 15. Sinister

>! 16. Soldier

>! 17. Valkyrie

>! 18. Vigilant

>! 19. Viper

>! 20. Wanderer

>! 21. Zealot

 

Defender:

>! 1. Apothecary

>! 2. Bringer

>! 3. Cavalier

>! 4. Celestial

>! 5. Cleric

>! 6. Crusader

>! 7. Dire

>! 8. Giver

>! 9. Harrier

>! 10. Knight

>! 11. Magi

>! 12. Minstrel

>! 13. Nomad

>! 14. Plaguedoctor

>! 15. Sentinel

>! 16. Settler

>! 17. Shaman

>! 18. Seraph

>! 19. Soldier

>! 20. Trailblazer

>! 21. Vigilant

>! 22. Wanderer

 

I fail to see how that's not much more simplistic and easier to understand than the current categorisation, nor do I see what the issue would be with adding let's say Healing Power sets back to Healer's, making it less meager in the process as well justifying it's namesake, in the case of wanting to keep 4 categories, even if they are mostly redundant.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> The current selections are:

>

> Assaulter:

> >! 1. Assassin

> >! 2. Berserker

> >! 3. Cavalier

> >! 4. Celestial

> >! 5. Commander

> >! 6. Crusader

> >! 7. Diviner

> >! 8. Grieving

> >! 9. Harrier

> >! 10. Knight

> >! 11. Marauder

> >! 12. Marshal

> >! 13. Rampager

> >! 14. Sinister

> >! 15. Soldier

> >! 16. Valkyrie

> >! 17. Vigilant

> >! 18. Viper

> >! 19. Wanderer

> >! 20. Zealot

>

> Defender:

> >! 1. Cavalier

> >! 2. Celestial

> >! 3. Crusader

> >! 4. Dire

> >! 5. Giver

> >! 6. Harrier

> >! 7. Knight

> >! 8. Minstrel

> >! 9. Nomad

> >! 10. Plaguedoctor

> >! 11. Sentinel

> >! 12. Settler

> >! 13. Shaman

> >! 14. Soldier

> >! 15. Trailblazer

> >! 16. Vigilant

> >! 17. Wanderer

>

> Healer:

> >! 1. Apothecary

> >! 2. Celestial

> >! 3. Cleric

> >! 4. Diviner

> >! 5. Giver

> >! 6. Harrier

> >! 7. Magi

> >! 8. Marshal

> >! 9. Minstrel

> >! 10. Plaguedoctor

> >! 11. Seraph

>

> Malicious:

> >! 1. Bringer

> >! 2. Carrion

> >! 3. Celestial

> >! 4. Dire

> >! 5. Grieving

> >! 6. Plaguedoctor

> >! 7. Rabid

> >! 8. Seraph

> >! 9. Shaman

> >! 10. Sinister

> >! 11. Trailblazer

> >! 12. Viper

>

>

>

> The point I was trying to make is that with this type of categorisation for example Shaman, which is a Healer's stat set with Healing Power used on a Meta Healer, isn't in Healer's, while for example Diviner's, which has nothing to do with healing at all, is in Healer's, and how inconsistencies like that will most likely be more confusing than the old system, let alone the alternatives I proposed.

>

> In addition to that, in terms of loot parity, Assaulter's and Defender's are vastly superior categories to drop than Healer's and Malicious, offering not only a wider selection of choices, but also offering almost all of the same stat sets that are in Healer's and Malicious as well, with the exception of only 3 each, making them pretty redundant.

>

> If all the commonly used Condition Damage sets already are in Assaulter's, then why have Malicious at all instead of just adding the just 3 missing stat sets to Assaulter as well and scrapping Malicious, making the whole thing a lot more player friendly?

> Same goes for Defender's offering almost all that Healer's offers and much more.

>

> Why not just do something along the lines of:

>

>

> Assaulter:

> >! 1. Assassin

> >! 2. Berserker

> >! 3. Carrion

> >! 4. Cavalier

> >! 5. Celestial

> >! 6. Commander

> >! 7. Diviner

> >! 8. Grieving

> >! 9. Knight

> >! 10. Marauder

> >! 11. Marshal

> >! 12. Rabid

> >! 13. Rampager

> >! 14. Seraph

> >! 15. Sinister

> >! 16. Soldier

> >! 17. Valkyrie

> >! 18. Vigilant

> >! 19. Viper

> >! 20. Wanderer

> >! 21. Zealot

>

> Defender:

> >! 1. Apothecary

> >! 2. Bringer

> >! 3. Cavalier

> >! 4. Celestial

> >! 5. Cleric

> >! 6. Crusader

> >! 7. Dire

> >! 8. Giver

> >! 9. Harrier

> >! 10. Knight

> >! 11. Magi

> >! 12. Minstrel

> >! 13. Nomad

> >! 14. Plaguedoctor

> >! 15. Sentinel

> >! 16. Settler

> >! 17. Shaman

> >! 18. Seraph

> >! 19. Soldier

> >! 20. Trailblazer

> >! 21. Vigilant

> >! 22. Wanderer

>

> I fail to see how that's not much more simplistic and easier to understand than the current categorisation, nor do I see what the issue would be with adding let's say Healing Power sets back to Healer's, making it less meager in the process as well justifying it's namesake, in the case of wanting to keep 4 categories, even if they are mostly redundant.

 

Simply put it's indicative of the illusion of choice they have given us for all this time; As I stated earlier on Im sure they will be expanded upon and will be focused around the "Main" Stat. In reality this is indicative of them bringing a "Soft" Trinity within the game. We need tank specs for all classes as we need support specs for all classes and it offers fun ways to play a class someone otherwise would not of chosen because of its set role. We Have always been told how to play really we have and not even by the meta; Some skills just don't work as well as others and some stat combo's don't work as well as others on specific classes which means you are limited to X stat sets but can still choose the others (As punishing as that may be) This is just telling you where your niche is.

 

Assaulters has the majority as primarily those are what are run along with them being power as the main stat; I firmly believe they will add into the other "Schools" as I want to call them. Defenders, healers and Malicious will get tons more added probably in this expansion that is slowly waddling towards us and this "Rework" of the whole thing probably just makes it easier to have and create stat combo's based on the concept. Healers will have healing power as the main, Malicious Condi/precision, and Defenders toughness or Vitality. This then opens the door for new stat sets to come out and be placed and built around these specific and very simplistic guidelines as they must have X as a main stat. That is all that this is, and I never once said it was a good Idea because frankly it feels bloated and all these stat sets to me seem redundant.

 

* Skim us down to four stat sets, and make them the best and all you need for X role.

* Get rid of all the other bloat as then it becomes easier to balance; As it stands now we have too many stat combo's when only a few of them ever really get used.

* Healers is all about support, all the stats you need for it would be in this set and nothing else (Maybe a smidgen of condi and power to make you capable of doing open world without help.)

* Defenders are your tanks so tank spec choices.

* Assaulters is Power

* Malicious is Condi

[Tzarakiel.7490]

Healer's contain Diviner's stats. Diviner is the most annoying stat set to get and it is very good. That alone makes healer chests equal in value to all the other chests.

[VDAC.2137]

I am fine with how it is now and glad for redundancies as it makes it more likely you’ll get something immediately useful from a drop. :)

 

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

>

> * Skim us down to four stat sets, and make them the best and all you need for X role.

> * Get rid of all the other bloat as then it becomes easier to balance; As it stands now we have too many stat combo's when only a few of them ever really get used.

> * Healers is all about support, all the stats you need for it would be in this set and nothing else (Maybe a smidgen of condi and power to make you capable of doing open world without help.)

 

Nooo, don’t reduce our many stat sets!!! Options are good for both build and crafting purposes and I like to be able to tweak stats and try deviations from meta!

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"VDAC.2137" said:

> I am fine with how it is now and glad for redundancies as it makes it more likely you’ll get something immediately useful from a drop. :)

>

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> >

> > * Skim us down to four stat sets, and make them the best and all you need for X role.

> > * Get rid of all the other bloat as then it becomes easier to balance; As it stands now we have too many stat combo's when only a few of them ever really get used.

> > * Healers is all about support, all the stats you need for it would be in this set and nothing else (Maybe a smidgen of condi and power to make you capable of doing open world without help.)

>

> Nooo, don’t reduce our many stat sets!!! Options are good for both build and crafting purposes and I like to be able to tweak stats and try deviations from meta!

 

I mean why when they will just balance stuff down until if you want to do anything you can only run X, X, and X. Which is kind of what they have been doing for a while now; After HoT the choice aspect got kinda removed and while its still there I can see them pushing us towards sets and stats that THEY deem good. Which is what all MMO-Rpg's have begun doing, the watering down and destroying of player choice to make it more like a MoBa so they don't have to balance as much.

[VDAC.2137]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"VDAC.2137" said:

> > I am fine with how it is now and glad for redundancies as it makes it more likely you’ll get something immediately useful from a drop. :)

> >

> > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > >

> > > * Skim us down to four stat sets, and make them the best and all you need for X role.

> > > * Get rid of all the other bloat as then it becomes easier to balance; As it stands now we have too many stat combo's when only a few of them ever really get used.

> > > * Healers is all about support, all the stats you need for it would be in this set and nothing else (Maybe a smidgen of condi and power to make you capable of doing open world without help.)

> >

> > Nooo, don’t reduce our many stat sets!!! Options are good for both build and crafting purposes and I like to be able to tweak stats and try deviations from meta!

>

> I mean why when they will just balance stuff down until if you want to do anything you can only run X, X, and X. Which is kind of what they have been doing for a while now; After HoT the choice aspect got kinda removed and while its still there I can see them pushing us towards sets and stats that THEY deem good. Which is what all MMO-Rpg's have begun doing, the watering down and destroying of player choice to make it more like a MoBa so they don't have to balance as much.

 

That doesn’t mean that I’ll ever encourage them in that direction. I hate having our choices whittled down all in the name of “balance.” :disappointed:

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"VDAC.2137" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > @"VDAC.2137" said:

> > > I am fine with how it is now and glad for redundancies as it makes it more likely you’ll get something immediately useful from a drop. :)

> > >

> > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > >

> > > > * Skim us down to four stat sets, and make them the best and all you need for X role.

> > > > * Get rid of all the other bloat as then it becomes easier to balance; As it stands now we have too many stat combo's when only a few of them ever really get used.

> > > > * Healers is all about support, all the stats you need for it would be in this set and nothing else (Maybe a smidgen of condi and power to make you capable of doing open world without help.)

> > >

> > > Nooo, don’t reduce our many stat sets!!! Options are good for both build and crafting purposes and I like to be able to tweak stats and try deviations from meta!

> >

> > I mean why when they will just balance stuff down until if you want to do anything you can only run X, X, and X. Which is kind of what they have been doing for a while now; After HoT the choice aspect got kinda removed and while its still there I can see them pushing us towards sets and stats that THEY deem good. Which is what all MMO-Rpg's have begun doing, the watering down and destroying of player choice to make it more like a MoBa so they don't have to balance as much.

>

> That doesn’t mean that I’ll ever encourage them in that direction. I hate having our choices whittled down all in the name of “balance.” :disappointed:

 

Regardless if you do or don't (I don't I just have accepted the nature of the beast.) They don't care and will continue to do as they please; If it means less clutter when they for example if ever make lets say... Seraphs useless across the board? Then just remove it. If the stat set serves no purpose and looking at it a year from now its completely trash just get rid of it (Im not saying it is or isn't.) If ever a stat... well I can't even say that because celestial is still here and its trash as it gets... so there is that.

[Asum.4960]

> @"Tzarakiel.7490" said:

> Healer's contain Diviner's stats. Diviner is the most annoying stat set to get and it is very good. That alone makes healer chests equal in value to all the other chests.

 

Diviner is also in Assaulter's though, so is Harrier. And almost everything else in Healer's is also in Defender's.

And if Healer's was removed or expanded with other Healing sets like Shaman etc., which it used to have, it's not like that would affect your ability of obtaining Diviner's.

You would still have a 50/50 chance of getting Diviners upon an ascended chest drop, just instead of currently being in Assaulter+Healers vs not being in Malicious+Defender's, it would be just Assaulter vs Defender.

So I'm not quite sure what you mean.

 

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"VDAC.2137" said:

> > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > @"VDAC.2137" said:

> > > > I am fine with how it is now and glad for redundancies as it makes it more likely you’ll get something immediately useful from a drop. :)

> > > >

> > > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > >

> > > > > * Skim us down to four stat sets, and make them the best and all you need for X role.

> > > > > * Get rid of all the other bloat as then it becomes easier to balance; As it stands now we have too many stat combo's when only a few of them ever really get used.

> > > > > * Healers is all about support, all the stats you need for it would be in this set and nothing else (Maybe a smidgen of condi and power to make you capable of doing open world without help.)

> > > >

> > > > Nooo, don’t reduce our many stat sets!!! Options are good for both build and crafting purposes and I like to be able to tweak stats and try deviations from meta!

> > >

> > > I mean why when they will just balance stuff down until if you want to do anything you can only run X, X, and X. Which is kind of what they have been doing for a while now; After HoT the choice aspect got kinda removed and while its still there I can see them pushing us towards sets and stats that THEY deem good. Which is what all MMO-Rpg's have begun doing, the watering down and destroying of player choice to make it more like a MoBa so they don't have to balance as much.

> >

> > That doesn’t mean that I’ll ever encourage them in that direction. I hate having our choices whittled down all in the name of “balance.” :disappointed:

>

> Regardless if you do or don't (I don't I just have accepted the nature of the beast.) They don't care and will continue to do as they please; If it means less clutter when they for example if ever make lets say... Seraphs useless across the board? Then just remove it. If the stat set serves no purpose and looking at it a year from now its completely trash just get rid of it (Im not saying it is or isn't.) If ever a stat... well I can't even say that because celestial is still here and its trash as it gets... so there is that.

 

What gives you the impression that that's where the game is going?

They never removed stats and added quite a bit since launch, and it's not like for example Berserker ever wasn't meta and that a few stats primarily being used is a new thing.

Plus there isn't only PvE, Celestial for example has been meta in WvW on Scourge for over a year.

 

I do a lot of build crafting, so I'm not at all in favour of reducing stat variety, quite the opposite.

Instead, especially as someone who does use all these different and sometimes niche stats quite a bit, I find this new system of categorising stats quite terrible and would like to see them organized in a more intuitive way, that's all.

[Trise.2865]

> @"Asum.4960" said:

> > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > Why does it matter how many options each category has if you will always get the (available) stat set that you want?

>

> If it didn't matter they would hardly have changed it.

> It's important QoL and useful for streamlining the player experience. Aside from that, the point is you will not always get the stat sets you want any more.

>

> My heal scourge for example was geared with the Meta Shaman/Marshal mix, utilizing some Healer's trinkets, which have been reset with the patch and now don't offer Shaman any more, forcing me to regear it, since the Healer's category is now missing that commonly used healing stat set, which is now instead only in Defender's and Malicious.

> Now for me, having piles of gear in my bank after playing for 7 years, that's not an issue to figure out and do. For new/less involved players I see this being more confusing than before, if not downright counter intuitive or frustrating.

> If I get some Healer's gear, I would expect it to have at least all commonly used Healing Power sets in it.

>

> The point is, categorizing by main stats doesn't make sense, especially when it comes to support stat sets, and is bound to confuse especially new players, more so than the previous iteration.

> Why change something if you make it worse?

>

> How is it not confusing to get Assaulter's gear no matter if you want to gear a Harrier Healer, Viper Condi DPS or Berserker Power DPS, and what is the point of having Malicious or Healer's at all, if the single somewhat useful/commonly used stat set exclusive to them is Magi in Healer's, with even that being somewhat niche?

>

> Why not condense them into simply Assaulter's and Defender's to reduce confusion and miss buys, as well as increasing loot parity?

> Getting Healer's gear, unless you specifically want to make some Magi gear, is just a dud now, compared to dropping Assaulter or Defender.

> Similarly Malicious, which was sought after primarily for Viper's, is now largely irrelevant with that being added to the long list of things in Assaulter's.

 

Which means you're confused by a meta that doesn't stack Healing Power on it's healers. That's a community problem, not a categorical one.

[Asum.4960]

> @"Trise.2865" said:

> > @"Asum.4960" said:

> > > @"Trise.2865" said:

> > > Why does it matter how many options each category has if you will always get the (available) stat set that you want?

> >

> > If it didn't matter they would hardly have changed it.

> > It's important QoL and useful for streamlining the player experience. Aside from that, the point is you will not always get the stat sets you want any more.

> >

> > My heal scourge for example was geared with the Meta Shaman/Marshal mix, utilizing some Healer's trinkets, which have been reset with the patch and now don't offer Shaman any more, forcing me to regear it, since the Healer's category is now missing that commonly used healing stat set, which is now instead only in Defender's and Malicious.

> > Now for me, having piles of gear in my bank after playing for 7 years, that's not an issue to figure out and do. For new/less involved players I see this being more confusing than before, if not downright counter intuitive or frustrating.

> > If I get some Healer's gear, I would expect it to have at least all commonly used Healing Power sets in it.

> >

> > The point is, categorizing by main stats doesn't make sense, especially when it comes to support stat sets, and is bound to confuse especially new players, more so than the previous iteration.

> > Why change something if you make it worse?

> >

> > How is it not confusing to get Assaulter's gear no matter if you want to gear a Harrier Healer, Viper Condi DPS or Berserker Power DPS, and what is the point of having Malicious or Healer's at all, if the single somewhat useful/commonly used stat set exclusive to them is Magi in Healer's, with even that being somewhat niche?

> >

> > Why not condense them into simply Assaulter's and Defender's to reduce confusion and miss buys, as well as increasing loot parity?

> > Getting Healer's gear, unless you specifically want to make some Magi gear, is just a dud now, compared to dropping Assaulter or Defender.

> > Similarly Malicious, which was sought after primarily for Viper's, is now largely irrelevant with that being added to the long list of things in Assaulter's.

>

> Which means you're confused by a meta that doesn't stack Healing Power on it's healers. That's a community problem, not a categorical one.

 

ArenaNet is most likely never going to fundamentally redesign the game in terms of drastically increasing player Health as well as incoming damage to make such a heavy Healing Power investment worthwhile.

If players have as low as 11k HP and Healers not stacking Healing Power as Primary Attribute can already heal over 50% of that per second, then this is not a community problem, since either boon support and/or contributing at least some damage will always be more worthwhile than over healing even more.

Already the only thing than can wipe a group with a decent Healer is colossally failing mechanics which can't be out healed no matter the Healing Power, usually due to being straight up oneshot wipe mechanics, or simply because player Health is too low and healing skills being limited and running out with no way of banking enough health that more Healing Power would make a difference.

Stacking more healing power at that point is just wasted stats, and simply how the game was designed.

 

Just because this system of categorising stats looks fine on paper if you don't actually know anything about the game, it's design and how it's getting played, doesn't mean it's a good system.

 

Aside from that, I'm still waiting to hear an explanation then on how Diviner's is a Healer's set, while for example Shaman and Zealot aren't, or why suggesting to at least add these actual Healing Power sets back into Healer's to reduce player confusion about not having all healing sets in there seems to be controversial, or what a single downside of condensing the selections into Assaulter and Defender would be.

 

After all, they already made exceptions to their new categorisation with things like Harrier in Defender's even though it doesn't have any Vitality or Toughness at all, even though it's already in 2 other categories, as well as Defender's already sporting a much bigger selection than Malicious and Healer's.

 

What would be so bad about having more Healing sets in Healer's then, reassuring players that if they want to gear a healer they are fine with just buying Healer's gear, instead of possibly having to get a mix of Defender's, Assaulter's and Malicious and miss buying Healer's pieces?

[Astralporing.1957]

> @"Trise.2865" said:

> Which means you're confused by a meta that doesn't stack Healing Power on it's healers. That's a community problem, not a categorical one.

It does stack healing power. It's just it needs other stats as well, and the best choices currently tend to not be healing power primary.

 

[Funky.4861]

It's an inconsistent mess, much like the stat-select reset (which i still have items which should have but didn't). It's also an issue with terminology and expectation; no-one takes shaman's gear and expects to do decent condi damage. We have four groups loosely based on: power damage, condition damage, tanking and healing/support. The problem is that people's expectations of those groupings varies, and when they buy say malicious and don't get the choice they were expecting, that feels bad because now they have to stat-swap it in the MF or trash it, which is just a complete waste of resources and time.