Rytlock's negative development (possible spoilers)

[Ashantara.8731]

I don't know about you, but ever since Season 3, Rytlock has been a huge annoyance in my eyes.

 

Actually, I already saw tendencies of his personality change in Season 2, when he was being pretty mean to Rox who only showed him the utmost respect. Okay, in fact, the first time he hit me as more than just "being a grumpy, thickheaded charr" was when he talked down to Logan during the personal story, but you could still excuse his behavior back then by the circumstances.

 

However, by now, he has grown completely arrogant, disrespectful, egocentric, and whiney. He is even more infantile than Taimi and Braham combined, and that says a lot about him. How can this be the once great charr leader, Tribune of the Blood Legion, someone supposedly possessing a certain level of diplomatic skill and brains?

 

I am so annoyed by him and his constant childish growling. I would like the Rytlock back that I encountered during my charr character's early stages of the personal story, instead of having to deal with this big crybaby. (_"Pfff, I know. Respect. Show it."_ This, just one of many examples, made me want to grab one of the many tomes in Kormir's library, and stuff it down his loudmouth's throat.)

[Artemis Thuras.8795]

He strikes me as a grumpy middle aged dude (with army history).

"I'm getting too old for this" mentality.

 

[Mea.5491]

I agree but I actually never liked him.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @"Artemis Thuras.8795" said:

> He strikes me as a grumpy middle aged dude (with army history).

> "I'm getting too old for this" mentality.

 

Oh, I would _like_ that... **if that was the case.** But it's not. If you played PoF, it should have hit you in the face like a baseball bat that, most of the time, this guy shows the maturity level of a thirteen-year old "rebelious teenanger".

[TheOrlyFactor.8341]

> @Ashantara.8731 said:

> I don't know about you, but ever since Season 3, Rytlock has been a huge annoyance in my eyes.

>

> Actually, I already saw tendencies of his personality change in Season 2, when he was being pretty mean to Rox who only showed him the utmost respect. Okay, in fact, the first time he hit me as more than just "being a grumpy, thickheaded charr" was when he talked down to Logan during the personal story, but you could still excuse his behavior back then by the circumstances.

>

> However, by now, he has grown completely arrogant, disrespectful, egocentric, and whiney. He is even more infantile than Taimi and Braham combined, and that says a lot about him. How can this be the once great charr leader, Tribune of the Blood Legion, someone supposedly possessing a certain level of diplomatic skill and brains?

>

> I am so annoyed by him and his constant childish growling. I would like the Rytlock back that I encountered during my charr character's early stages of the personal story, instead of having to deal with this big crybaby. (_"Pfff, I know. Respect. Show it."_ This, just one of many examples, made me want to grab one of the many tomes in Kormir's library, and stuff it down his loudmouth's throat.)

 

And yet Anet's gonna continue to try to push him down our throats because he's supposed to be "cool" and "edgy".

 

Rytlock Brimstone, to me, is GW2's variant of Coldsteel the Hedgeheg. Anet tries way too hard to make him this grimdark cooldude and in the process he comes across as a jerk, an irredeemable jerk at that. The fact that he abandoned DE, especially two members who were incapacitated at the time, to make DW is just another notch on his jerkhole belt. I hope when/if Zojja returns she gives him a verbal beatdown and a wake up call for abandoning her, Logan, and DE.

 

The fact that Zojja got fridged/bused for this clown is appalling to me. Despite liking other members of DW, I've been very much against the existence of the guild because of how it was handled. It doesn't help that there's no choice to do anything about it. The PC is now just a vehicle to spoon feed the (in my opinion) mediocre to awful story and unless you're a role player and/or story writer (like myself) who can weave your tales then you're pretty much stuck with this kind of abhorrent storytelling.

 

Rytlock is not a character I can relate to. I don't think he's likable. I don't think he has any redeemable qualities. He doesn't learn or grow or develop other than becoming a bigger jerk than he was before. The only saving grace of PoF's story was that Canach was there to (in my opinion) counter Rytlock's verbal diarrhea and that I could talk to Taimi before and after each mission step. Without either character, I personally wouldn't have bought PoF.

 

I want there to be actual consequences for Rytlock being a jerk, for abandoning his guild mates. I think that's what bothers me most of all about this. He's a jerk that gets away with it. He gets no comeuppance, no real reprimand for being a jerk. None of my characters would have let him talk the kind of smack he was talking, especially after the reveal later on in the story (I would have booted him smooth the heck out of DW when I found out what he had done). However, as stated before, the PC now only serves to be a vehicle in which the story is fed to the player, making them less your character and more like a doormat. Granted, I also want the PC to face consequences for going along with this decision to abandon DE in favor of making DW as well but this is about Rytlock at the moment.

 

I realize this post as been more of a rant than anything actually coherent. However, I really, really, REALLY don't like Rytlock and my hate for him as a character has grown the longer the story goes on. :|

[Mirdave.2014]

He offended my great mesmerizing magic and my beautiful elementalist in a single sentence. For me this guy is just a big NO. And probably he stinks worst than a wet dog.

[TexZero.7910]

I actually think they've done a good job with the character.

 

He's probably had the 2nd most character growth next to only Canach.

Sure he's a surly, brazen and ultimately isolated but can you really a blame the guy whose seen 2 close allies die, 2 more gravely injured, and now has to share his mental state with 4 other voices/personalities for having moments that are off-key/not perceived to be his normal ?

[Mikeskies.1536]

He was awfully apologetic and remorseful in the PoF story...

[Rauderi.8706]

> @Mirdave.2014 said:

>And probably he stinks worst than a wet dog.

 

Given the story dialog, that might be canon. :|

 

[Donari.5237]

> @Ashantara.8731 said:

> > @"Artemis Thuras.8795" said:

> > He strikes me as a grumpy middle aged dude (with army history).

> > "I'm getting too old for this" mentality.

>

> Oh, I would _like_ that... **if that was the case.** But it's not. If you played PoF, it should have hit you in the face like a baseball bat that, most of the time, this guy shows the maturity level of a thirteen-year old "rebelious teenanger".

 

Actually he's a lot better in all of the game story than he was in the Edge of Destiny novel. In that book, he and Logan sound like snickering early-teens western terran civilization boys, rather than seasoned combatants and leaders. Maybe he sounds a bit like that in game, too, but Steve Blum's deep growl adds a bit of weight to comments that might not come across so well in text.

 

I do cut him some slack for not being human. While ANet tends to portray non-human cultures with quirks rather than deep differences in world view, the kernel is there to support Rytlock's irascible bluntness as feasible for a Tribune.

 

(Side note: I used "snickering" because I fully expect the more apt word with different letters replacing the ck to be felined even though it is not at all a foul word. But that more apt word has all the right connotations for their 'banter' in the novel).

[Ashantara.8731]

> @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> He was awfully apologetic and remorseful in the PoF story...

 

Not really. His apology came across as half-hearted and casual. But that was the least that bothered me about him in PoF. He is just completely immature for a charr of his (former) grandeur.

 

> @Donari.5237 said:

> Actually he's a lot better in all of the game story than he was in the Edge of Destiny novel. In that book, he and Logan sound like snickering early-teens western terran civilization boys, rather than seasoned combatants and leaders.

 

Okay, that's just sad.

[Zaltys.7649]

I do hope that he's written out soon. Maybe in a heroic sacrifice.

That'd fit his character arch: failed to protect Glint, had a chat with her in the mists and became a revenant, released Balthazar which resulted in Vlast dying... would be fitting if he died to save Aurene, last of Glints' lineage.

[Orpheal.8263]

The whole storytelling of lastly doesn't really fit for my personal taste since the moment of Eir's Death, things have turned out to become really weird and the whole outcome of it could have ben written in a similar way, but with a story telling, that would have ended up smoother, more epic and in a more logical way, without having to press into all of this also raids into. Sure, Anet would have had to make a different way then to introduce Balthazar, if certain storytelling elements would have been changed.

But in my opinion the story telling would have been better, if things would have happened this way:

 

* At the Combat with Mordrem-Faolain, not Eir, but Rytlock dies while trying to protecting Zojja and Logan, before they get kidnapped by Mordremoth

* Logan becomes at the End of the the Battle with Mordremoth the new Pact Marshall, with Sohothin being returned into Human Hands wielded now by him as Rytlocks Legacy, swearign as he hears of his death by Sohothin in his hands, that he will become a great Pact Marshall that will make his sacrifice not gonna be in vain

* Scrap the whole White Mantle Stuff and Fake Lazarus garbage and instead focus on much more on the simultanous activities of Primordus and Jormag , requiring us to get help from the Shining Blade, with an introduction of a new Champion Dragon World Boss for Primordus

* Introduce Raid Maps, that have no Story Bonding to the Living Story at all meanwhile

* Introduce the White Mantle and Return of Mursaat in a different way in regard of balthazar, that they make a cooperation, instead of beign abused by balthazar, they they literally helped him out to return, not Rytlock unknowningly

* Balthazar and his troops of Forged White mantle fanatics/mursaat defeat Jormag, before we coudl stop them instead of this Bloodstone Stuff, which is why Balthazar gains more power, so his tries next with Prmordus, but there we stop him ,so that he flees to Elona to try it instead with Kralkatorrrik

* From that point on then story liek we know of PoF

 

I think that way I would liked the story telling personally alot more, plus we woldnt have had all this Braham crybaby stuff then as well.

 

However, I''m at the general opinion, that a few more characters are overdue to die.. that some of them had by npw more than enough of screen time and should make free space for some completely fresh and new characters, like for example Livia now, which should replace Marjory (personally have so much how her, cant see her anymore)

I'd also like to see one of those characters, like Braham for example turning hostile agaisnt us, cause of following his/her completely own goals... why have such story characters always have to stay forever happy go lucky and follow exactly OUR ideals, like they are some souless puppets with absolutely no own goals, now own ideals and now own mind which tells them to do their own things... as if not out of friends could turn enemies, if the circumstances turn it into that way.

That way for exampel Braham coudl stil lget his screen tiem, but in a completely different angle of view, while our troop of heroes gets a free spot some someone else, that replaces Braham fro his spot in Dragon Watch, until we punch back some sense into Brahams thick skull eventually and he returns regretfully seeing in, that his actions were wrong or whatever he may say then in that situation.

 

I know, VAs aren't cxheap, so that you can heave like douzens of then for all kinds of new characters introuced every now and then while the story progresses... but 5 years of having constantly mostly always the same characters becomes slowly boring. There needs to happen soon soem fresh wind, some new personalities and faces to have in the group (eventually combined with introduced new playable races, like a Tengu and or a (redesigned) Largos joining DW for example. That would be the kind of fresh wind, that GW2 needs for story telling I think.

 

How awesoem would it be, if a Tengu or Largos would join DW as part of a next expansion that leads us finally for exampel to more underwater gameplay (Largos Regions/Underwater Town) or into the Dominion of Wind/Sanctum Cay area west of LA from where a tengus joins us, that has enough of living a life of isolation, which lives for the change and wants to do somethign for the better of the future as well for his race, so that they don't have to hide themself anymore - ever again, and thus joins us, as he believes, if he folows our ideals, that with our help, his dreams have the highest chances of becoming true, once first all the troubles around Tyria are over first, which endanger the Tengus a well, even if they live in isolation.

[Ayumi Spender.1082]

> @Mirdave.2014 said:

> He offended my great mesmerizing magic and my beautiful elementalist in a single sentence. For me this guy is just a big NO. And probably he stinks worst than a wet dog.

 

Would it be wrong that that comment he made got a laugh out of me?

 

> @Ashantara.8731 said:

> > @Mikeskies.1536 said:

> > He was awfully apologetic and remorseful in the PoF story...

>

> Not really. His apology came across as half-hearted and casual. But that was the least that bothered me about him in PoF. He is just completely immature for a charr of his (former) grandeur.

>

> > @Donari.5237 said:

> > Actually he's a lot better in all of the game story than he was in the Edge of Destiny novel. In that book, he and Logan sound like snickering early-teens western terran civilization boys, rather than seasoned combatants and leaders.

>

> Okay, that's just sad.

 

Didn't seem half-hearted at all. When he realized what he did he seemed a bit annoyed with his own self and not really "grumpy to others".

His attitude in PoF comes off as someone that just don't want to deal with Marmox that isn't needed. The job is going after one guy, who cares what he is/was/planning? Stop him and the mission is over.

If anything, I couldn't stand Kasmeer one bit.

[Chadramar.8156]

Rytlock gets props from me for being the ONLY one who shows any reaction, however brief and miniscule, to the PC _dying and coming back to life_. The others can't be bothered at all, with either grief or joy, which fits my impression that the post-PS storytelling is pretty much all about the NPCs emoting at each other while nobody really gives a toss about the so-called protagonist. Which in turn makes me not give a toss about any of them either.

 

I don't think it's fair to blame him for proposing that embarassing failure of a new guild -- that is entirely on the writers. And it is a move I massively disagree with myself as well, I never wanted to abandon the Pact or ditch Destiny's Edge. It does make him (and the PC, too!) look uncaring and inconsistent, though, and that is on the writers as well. I have a hard time believing that someone who still shows so much grief and guilt over Snaff, Glint and Eir would at the same time turn his back on the rest of them _and_ let a certain a-hole brat hijack Destiny's Edge at the same time. And while we're at it, since he does feel guilt for Glint _and_ channels her legend, you'd think he'd care more about Aurene? The only time he speaks about her at all, he sneers about not wanting to be a babysitter.

 

I also have a hard time believing that a hardened veteran and ranking officer from a culture that is famously suspicious (at best) towards magic and frequently has to fight hostile ghosts and spirits to boot would just casually free Balthazar without a moment's thought. Braham, yeah, I could see him do that. Not Rytlock. You don't become Tribune without a brain.

 

So yeah, I think the writing didn't do him any favors lately, except in that introspective moment in Glint's lair. And that's a shame, because I do want to like him.

[Ashantara.8731]

> @Chadramar.8156 said:

> Rytlock gets props from me for being the ONLY one who shows any reaction, however brief and miniscule, to the PC _dying and coming back to life_. The others can't be bothered at all, with either grief or joy

 

Maybe you should have looked closer. Kasmeer was crying at the sight of the Commander laying dead in front of her.

[Lorienys.5407]

Rytlock used to be my favourite :( he looks great and has the vibes of that epic character everybody respects.

 

But instead he's a big baby personality wise and also getting all this special treatment like being the only still relevant DE member and receiving all those key roles (for example starting the entire story with Balthazar pretty much)

[zealex.9410]

Rytlock wasnt with us during most of the events of se3 so he doesnt know we know first hand about balance dragons etc. Hes also really hateful toward kralky who killed a firend of his disbanded his guild and killed glint. Id say is understandable that he doesn't follow ur way of thinkig as commander that easily and is been hold to his past experiences with the dragons etc.

[Chadramar.8156]

> @Ashantara.8731 said:

> Maybe you should have looked closer. Kasmeer was crying at the sight of the Commander laying dead in front of her.

 

I must have missed that in some brief moment between the screen flare and the pseudo comic relief about "poking the Commander". I'll grant you it's slightly better than nothing at all, but it definitely shouldn't be a literal "blink and you'll miss it" thing either, especially compared to the explicit emotional reactions various NPCs show towards other NPCs.

 

[Artemis Thuras.8795]

> @Ashantara.8731 said:

> > @"Artemis Thuras.8795" said:

> > He strikes me as a grumpy middle aged dude (with army history).

> > "I'm getting too old for this" mentality.

>

> Oh, I would _like_ that... **if that was the case.** But it's not. If you played PoF, it should have hit you in the face like a baseball bat that, most of the time, this guy shows the maturity level of a thirteen-year old "rebelious teenanger".

 

1) don't assume my progress on an expansion ( FYI, completed twice, on 2 different characters).

2) The "maturity level of a thirteen year old" also fits most grumpy old people i've met.

[Artemis Thuras.8795]

> @Mirdave.2014 said:

> He offended my great mesmerizing magic and my beautiful elementalist in a single sentence. For me this guy is just a big NO. And probably he stinks worst than a wet dog.

 

the have a cultural hated from elementalists, and probably mesmers by extension.

 

Flame legion being "kicked out" of the high legions and all.

[JaddynnStarr.5201]

He has become the jar jar binks of GW2.... oh sheet! mesa accidently opena missah balthazarsa chains!!! okey day?