I Play LB Soulbeast in WvW cuz so many are crying around about it.

[Etterwyn.5263]

> @"EremiteAngel.9765" said:

> Just curious but based on the recent poll, there are 3 other classes above Soulbeasts but they don't seem to be getting the same amount of attention ?

>

> 2.8Mesmer

> 3.3Engineer

> 3.5Warrior

> 3.6Ranger

> 5.3Revenant

> 5.3Thief

> 6.7Elementalist

> 6.9Guardian

> 7.5Necromancer

 

Mesmer and Engineer have a higher skill floor. I will engage, but I know it's a guaranteed loss if the other person is the least bit competent. Warrior is strong and has a few really sick bursts but the key is playing defensively, keeping them at range and wearing them down.

 

I've even faced a few good Weavers out there and they're as hard to kill as Scrappers in capable hands.

 

I'm not a big Soulbeast hater, but I see the issue people have is its low skill floor for such a high burst, and at a safe distance. But be careful what you ask for, because I'd rather go 1v1 against a noob camping bow than have a skilled axe ranger up in my face.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said:

> > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc)

> > > > > >

> > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler.

> > > > > >

> > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p

> > > > >

> > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people?

> > > > Sic 'Em: 30 second cooldown

> > > > One Wolf Pack: 60 second cooldown

> > > >

> > > >

> > >

> > > 30 sec cd, 10 sec duration, 40% more damage. Nuff said.

> >

> > What was said is

> >

> > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time

> >

> > A once a minute burst is not

> >

> > > all the time

>

> You can burst without sick em, but you need it to 1-shot people.

 

Sick 'Em is not how 1--shot is done. Attack of Opportunity is

 

> 10k+ damage is nothing to laugh about when you can do it every 10 seconds.

>

>

 

Ever class can do that.

Rev can do it every 4 seconds with a single skill.

 

 

I mean, I'm not even telling you guys you're wrong about soulbeast. But all the low-information opinions presented in these threads aren't helping... The devs that make the class know what's pure BS, why would they take obviously erroneous data seriously?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> A 60 second cooldown is not a 25 second cooldown

 

> @"GaijinGuy.8476" said:

> Math is hard for some people, show some sympathy.

 

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22

35 second cooldown - 10 second duration = 25 second actual cooldown

 

so I just scrolled up and the 60 second cd was one wolf pack. why you brought up something that no one has a problem with I don't know.

[steki.1478]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > > > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said:

> > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc)

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler.

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p

> > > > > >

> > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people?

> > > > > Sic 'Em: 30 second cooldown

> > > > > One Wolf Pack: 60 second cooldown

> > > > >

> > > > >

> > > >

> > > > 30 sec cd, 10 sec duration, 40% more damage. Nuff said.

> > >

> > > What was said is

> > >

> > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time

> > >

> > > A once a minute burst is not

> > >

> > > > all the time

> >

> > You can burst without sick em, but you need it to 1-shot people.

>

> Sick 'Em is not how 1--shot is done. Attack of Opportunity is

>

> > 10k+ damage is nothing to laugh about when you can do it every 10 seconds.

> >

> >

>

> Ever class can do that.

> Rev can do it every 4 seconds with a single skill.

>

>

> I mean, I'm not even telling you guys you're wrong about soulbeast. But all the low-information opinions presented in these threads aren't helping... The devs that make the class know what's pure BS, why would they take obviously erroneous data seriously?

 

And maul has whole 4 seconds of cooldown... you don't even need to hit with it. You can counter rev skill by standing on a rock or strafing, just like any ground following skill.

[DemonSeed.3528]

They still haven't fixed the bug where sbeast can have another pet out while merged either. Moar deeps there too. Thought I was imagining it when I see them merged with a pet still running around.

[Bezerker.2379]

The issue with soulbeast has noithing to do with the abilities. It has to do with the stat boosts. You can run full wanderers, still have 2k power, near 40% crit, and decent ferocity.

[LetoII.3782]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said:

> > > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc)

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler.

> > > > > > > >

> > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p

> > > > > > >

> > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people?

> > > > > > Sic 'Em: 30 second cooldown

> > > > > > One Wolf Pack: 60 second cooldown

> > > > > >

> > > > > >

> > > > >

> > > > > 30 sec cd, 10 sec duration, 40% more damage. Nuff said.

> > > >

> > > > What was said is

> > > >

> > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time

> > > >

> > > > A once a minute burst is not

> > > >

> > > > > all the time

> > >

> > > You can burst without sick em, but you need it to 1-shot people.

> >

> > Sick 'Em is not how 1--shot is done. Attack of Opportunity is

> >

> > > 10k+ damage is nothing to laugh about when you can do it every 10 seconds.

> > >

> > >

> >

> > Ever class can do that.

> > Rev can do it every 4 seconds with a single skill.

> >

> >

> > I mean, I'm not even telling you guys you're wrong about soulbeast. But all the low-information opinions presented in these threads aren't helping... The devs that make the class know what's pure BS, why would they take obviously erroneous data seriously?

>

> And maul has whole 4 seconds of cooldown... you don't even need to hit with it. You can counter rev skill by standing on a rock or strafing, just like any ground following skill.

 

And so we talk about mauls cooldown and not target of opportunities. Then we talk about rev like CoR is the only hard hitter rev has.

 

Sigh

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > A 60 second cooldown is not a 25 second cooldown

>

> > @"GaijinGuy.8476" said:

> > Math is hard for some people, show some sympathy.

>

> https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/%22Sic_%27Em!%22

> 35 second cooldown - 10 second duration = 25 second actual cooldown

>

> so I just scrolled up and the 60 second cd was one wolf pack. why you brought up something that no one has a problem with I don't know.

 

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

> > @"LetoII.3782" said:

> > A once a minute burst is not

> >

> > all the time

>

> correct, its every 25 seconds. doesn't need sic em to deal big dmg tho.

>

 

You don't think OWP is strong because you think 10k autoattacks are from sic 'em

they are not

 

Tl;Dr why don't you break down and make a soulbeast already?

You contribute to these threads a lot but what you're presenting as fact is... Nearly indecipherable

[anduriell.6280]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> They still haven't fixed the bug where sbeast can have another pet out while merged either. Moar deeps there too. Thought I was imagining it when I see them merged with a pet still running around.

You can do the same to have your pet out while mounted. However the pets don't attack or do anything, i guess that's why the bug is still there.

However i'll try it more extensively to check if it's possible to use the second pet.

 

[GaijinGuy.8476]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > They still haven't fixed the bug where sbeast can have another pet out while merged either. Moar deeps there too. Thought I was imagining it when I see them merged with a pet still running around.

> You can do the same to have your pet out while mounted. However the pets don't attack or do anything, i guess that's why the bug is still there.

> However i'll try it more extensively to check if it's possible to use the second pet.

>

 

If you can use the second pet that is a major bug.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> You don't think OWP is strong because you think 10k autoattacks are from sic 'em

> they are not

>

> Tl;Dr why don't you break down and make a soulbeast already?

> You contribute to these threads a lot but what you're presenting as fact is... Nearly indecipherable

 

I never said that lol, but sic em is a big contributor. how about using facts instead of supposition.

I posted a 10k lb auto pic in pvp forums months ago, I know how it works.

[Twilight Tempest.7584]

The difficulty when discussing why Soulbeast is problematic is that the overtuned mechanics lie beneath the surface and are usually the sum of multiple synergies. Below are links to two comments by knowledgeable players as to why SLB is busted. I didn't really see these issues covered here. They're in PvP context, but they apply in WvW just as well.

 

[best in game damage multiplier stacking](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/941977/#Comment_941977 "Best in game damage multiplier stacking")

 

[Too much unblockable](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/948011/#Comment_948011 "Too much unblockable")

 

I know links are annoying, but they're within this forum, and I didn't want to create a text wall here.

[Legendary Defender.5631]

I told you it would get worse

Here we learn to make wvw into a shooter battle royale:

[How To Make WvW Into A Shooter Battle Royale](https://drive.google.com/open?id=1BdXlL99Q506AM-1TLXWPlODDykfeEL3g "https://drive.google.com/open?id=1BdXlL99Q506AM-1TLXWPlODDykfeEL3g")

[Kovu.7560]

> @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> The difficulty when discussing why Soulbeast is problematic is that the overtuned mechanics lie beneath the surface and are usually the sum of multiple synergies. Below are links to two comments by knowledgeable players as to why SLB is busted. I didn't really see these issues covered here. They're in PvP context, but they apply in WvW just as well.

>

> [best in game damage multiplier stacking](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/941977/#Comment_941977 "Best in game damage multiplier stacking")

>

> [Too much unblockable](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/948011/#Comment_948011 "Too much unblockable")

>

> I know links are annoying, but they're within this forum, and I didn't want to create a text wall here.

 

Soulbeasts spamming rapid fire and maul do not have access to call of the wild, clarion bond doesn't work because it requires an unmerged pet swap (also you'll be using marksmanship without stoneform which is kind of silly on a build that dies when its breathed on) and that unblockable signet is a reeealy trashy way to waste one of your two non-sic 'em slots.

 

This might come as a surprise, but all the soulbeasts you come across are not going to have access to every tool available to the profession at once. People need to stop plucking the best options from a profession to make it seem like its overperforming. Sic 'em needs a nerf, ranger otherwise does not.

 

Also (directed at everyone, not Twilight), don't base profession balance off of cherry picked montage videos. A while back people were calling for elementalist nerfs because of a video where a player was one-shotting groups of players with churning earth.

 

~ Kovu

[steki.1478]

> @"Kovu.7560" said:

> > @"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:

> > The difficulty when discussing why Soulbeast is problematic is that the overtuned mechanics lie beneath the surface and are usually the sum of multiple synergies. Below are links to two comments by knowledgeable players as to why SLB is busted. I didn't really see these issues covered here. They're in PvP context, but they apply in WvW just as well.

> >

> > [best in game damage multiplier stacking](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/941977/#Comment_941977 "Best in game damage multiplier stacking")

> >

> > [Too much unblockable](https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/948011/#Comment_948011 "Too much unblockable")

> >

> > I know links are annoying, but they're within this forum, and I didn't want to create a text wall here.

>

> Soulbeasts spamming rapid fire and maul do not have access to call of the wild, clarion bond doesn't work because it requires an unmerged pet swap (also you'll be using marksmanship without stoneform which is kind of silly on a build that dies when its breathed on) and that unblockable signet is a reeealy trashy way to waste one of your two non-sic 'em slots.

>

Cast maul, inventory swap to x/wh, cast 5, weapon swap to lb, continue with your combo. All of these precasts are done outside of combat so you can abuse all modifiers with ease. However, maul isnt even necessary on longbow combo, it's mostly used for winters bite or other one hit skills.

 

> This might come as a surprise, but all the soulbeasts you come across are not going to have access to every tool available to the profession at once. People need to stop plucking the best options from a profession to make it seem like its overperforming. Sic 'em needs a nerf, ranger otherwise does not.

>

People are complaining about sick em anyway, not core rangers. Well, soulbeasts because of easy boon generation and unblockable uptimes on top of all those damage boosts.

 

> Also (directed at everyone, not Twilight), don't base profession balance off of cherry picked montage videos. A while back people were calling for elementalist nerfs because of a video where a player was one-shotting groups of players with churning earth.

>

 

There's a massive difference between a build that suicides for a chance to kill and a build that can kill from safety while still having a way to escape (or you can simply do it from a cliff/wall or other safe spot). Not to mention that literally no one does that on ele (too much effort, not much reward) compared to at least 50% of all soulbeasts in the game. Besides, even if they nerfed churning earth it wouldn't achieve absolutely anything because the skill is useless already.

 

I'm all for having less attacks that deal >15k damage, regardless of how hard they are to pull off. But of course, priority should always be on easier/more popular ones.

 

 

[LetoII.3782]

> @"Stand The Wall.6987" said:

 

> I posted a 10k lb auto pic in pvp forums months ago, I know how it works.

 

Oh, you do those 10k autos in spvp now?

[Stand The Wall.6987]

> @"LetoII.3782" said:

> Oh, you do those 10k autos in spvp now?

 

no

 

[Celestia.9128]

You can always load up your full glass perma stealth one-shot DE to teach those rascals a lesson!

[anduriell.6280]

> @"GaijinGuy.8476" said:

> > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > They still haven't fixed the bug where sbeast can have another pet out while merged either. Moar deeps there too. Thought I was imagining it when I see them merged with a pet still running around.

> > You can do the same to have your pet out while mounted. However the pets don't attack or do anything, i guess that's why the bug is still there.

> > However i'll try it more extensively to check if it's possible to use the second pet.

> >

>

> If you can use the second pet that is a major bug.

 

You can have the second pet out while mounted, but again it does not attack or do anything. its like having a gigantic mini around.

I would call it a aesthetic bug which you would know if you have tested it already.

But then again you dont play with ranger, do you now?

[GaijinGuy.8476]

> @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > @"GaijinGuy.8476" said:

> > > @"anduriell.6280" said:

> > > > @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> > > > They still haven't fixed the bug where sbeast can have another pet out while merged either. Moar deeps there too. Thought I was imagining it when I see them merged with a pet still running around.

> > > You can do the same to have your pet out while mounted. However the pets don't attack or do anything, i guess that's why the bug is still there.

> > > However i'll try it more extensively to check if it's possible to use the second pet.

> > >

> >

> > If you can use the second pet that is a major bug.

>

> You can have the second pet out while mounted, but again it does not attack or do anything. its like having a gigantic mini around.

> I would call it a aesthetic bug which you would know if you have tested it already.

> But then again you dont play with ranger, do you now?

 

I do but have never experienced this, hence my post. If it happens with soul beast only, well I don’t play soul beast so I wouldn’t know

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"Nokturnal Lunacy.3186" said:

> @arenanet all this complaining and balance bs can be easily fixed. Remove all passives and boons. Simple as that. Then players can no longer be carried by the game and no more of the op burst builds. they all require being carried by the game using passive traits and boons. But hey lets just add more boons and more passive carry me traits so the not so skilled or not so fast thinkers can be carried. Um....any company in the world would know catering to them types is a failure. but here we are. And because you fail to see this is why I say what I say about you.

 

The passives are needed because game is built towards aoe spam, expect more aoe spam stronger and faster and more passives that the path Anet choosed long time ago.

[Zuldari.3940]

> @"DemonSeed.3528" said:

> They still haven't fixed the bug where sbeast can have another pet out while merged either. Moar deeps there too. Thought I was imagining it when I see them merged with a pet still running around.

 

I have never been able to do this, what kind of bug are we talking about? An actual bug in the game or a hack by the player?

[steki.1478]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"Nokturnal Lunacy.3186" said:

> > @arenanet all this complaining and balance bs can be easily fixed. Remove all passives and boons. Simple as that. Then players can no longer be carried by the game and no more of the op burst builds. they all require being carried by the game using passive traits and boons. But hey lets just add more boons and more passive carry me traits so the not so skilled or not so fast thinkers can be carried. Um....any company in the world would know catering to them types is a failure. but here we are. And because you fail to see this is why I say what I say about you.

>

> The passives are needed because game is built towards aoe spam, expect more aoe spam stronger and faster and more passives that the path Anet choosed long time ago.

 

You can just not stand in it lol.

 

I dont see how passive procs bring any value in a game with active defense system.

[Aeolus.3615]

> @"steki.1478" said:

> > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > @"Nokturnal Lunacy.3186" said:

> > > @arenanet all this complaining and balance bs can be easily fixed. Remove all passives and boons. Simple as that. Then players can no longer be carried by the game and no more of the op burst builds. they all require being carried by the game using passive traits and boons. But hey lets just add more boons and more passive carry me traits so the not so skilled or not so fast thinkers can be carried. Um....any company in the world would know catering to them types is a failure. but here we are. And because you fail to see this is why I say what I say about you.

> >

> > The passives are needed because game is built towards aoe spam, expect more aoe spam stronger and faster and more passives that the path Anet choosed long time ago.

>

> You can just not stand in it lol.

>

> I dont see how passive procs bring any value in a game with active defense system.

 

With the amount of aoe and spam where fights are just aoe/ Cleaves most of the time ur taking damage from players that don’t event have I selected, the spam is so much in those areas passives were needed to make game less broken in offensive.

It’s Anet way of balance while they keep increasing aoe being casted.

[steki.1478]

> @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > @"steki.1478" said:

> > > @"Aeolus.3615" said:

> > > > @"Nokturnal Lunacy.3186" said:

> > > > @arenanet all this complaining and balance bs can be easily fixed. Remove all passives and boons. Simple as that. Then players can no longer be carried by the game and no more of the op burst builds. they all require being carried by the game using passive traits and boons. But hey lets just add more boons and more passive carry me traits so the not so skilled or not so fast thinkers can be carried. Um....any company in the world would know catering to them types is a failure. but here we are. And because you fail to see this is why I say what I say about you.

> > >

> > > The passives are needed because game is built towards aoe spam, expect more aoe spam stronger and faster and more passives that the path Anet choosed long time ago.

> >

> > You can just not stand in it lol.

> >

> > I dont see how passive procs bring any value in a game with active defense system.

>

> With the amount of aoe and spam where fights are just aoe/ Cleaves most of the time ur taking damage from players that don’t event have I selected, the spam is so much in those areas passives were needed to make game less broken in offensive.

> It’s Anet way of balance while they keep increasing aoe being casted.

 

There's also barrier and heal spam so it's literally all in positioning. If aoes are everywhere that means that they dont do as much damage as they would if they were stacked in a smaller area. When they do low damage you can ignore them on most classes because base health with some vitality from gear as well as perma sustain from healers is enough to keep your health up.