Kovu.7560 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > Cast maul, inventory swap to x/wh, cast 5, weapon swap to lb, continue with your combo. All of these precasts are done outside of combat so you can abuse all modifiers with ease. However, maul isnt even necessary on longbow combo, it's mostly used for winters bite or other one hit skills. That's certainly an option, I actually don't rely on the unblockable so heavily so I keep a warhorn at the time of my inventory for additional boons pre combat and go in with longbow and greatsword. I guess keeping a greatsword at the top of your inventory for a maul->winter's bite is an option. If they changed it so that effects like maul's AoO or Warhorn's unblockable are removed if the relevant weapons are unequipped that'd at least force the ranger to commit to those weapons. > There's a massive difference between a build that suicides for a chance to kill and a build that can kill from safety while still having a way to escape (or you can simply do it from a cliff/wall or other safe spot). Not to mention that literally no one does that on ele (too much effort, not much reward) compared to at least 50% of all soulbeasts in the game. Besides, even if they nerfed churning earth it wouldn't achieve absolutely anything because the skill is useless already. The elementalist example is just one of many where players see big numbers and assume they're constant, and call for nerfs without digging deeper into how those numbers are achieved and how often. I wasn't specifically intending to compare an augmented churning earth to an augmented rapid fire. Though with that in mind, its true that a soulbeast can use sic 'em, might, AoO, and the traits in marksmanship, skirmishing and soulbeast that outright increase damage, but all of those modifiers are not going to be up _all of the time_. It _is_ easy to do and I do feel the ceiling on soulbeast damage could do to be lowered with minimal effect to their average output. I can't speak off the top of my head what I'd do to change these traits that are basically "+x% damage", but I feel no sympathy for people who demand they be deleted with no constructive suggestions. People put too much value in ranged attacks as a form of _defense_. Its easy for the opposition to close the gap against a ranger with either leaps or teleports and then all of a sudden that benefit of range has been entirely negated leaving the ranger with three options. Turn tail and run, in which case the ranger is not an offensive threat; continue attacking with that ranged weapon at which point whatever mobility the ranger has is not being utilized and they're at a dps disadvantage or switch to a melee weapon and hope the they can outsustain whoever they're engaged with (which isn't going to happen on a spec achieving 10k longbow autos). > I'm all for having less attacks that deal >15k damage, regardless of how hard they are to pull off. But of course, priority should always be on easier/more popular ones. Yeah, this game needs to lower the cap on damage potential _and_ the ability to tank. My necro got sniped by a 24k gunflame from the enemy zerg the other day, that was a sad moment. ~ Kovu edit- sorry for the late reply, I pretty much only ever check this forum during my lunch break out of boredom. cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > @"steki.1478" said: > > Cast maul, inventory swap to x/wh, cast 5, weapon swap to lb, continue with your combo. All of these precasts are done outside of combat so you can abuse all modifiers with ease. However, maul isnt even necessary on longbow combo, it's mostly used for winters bite or other one hit skills. > That's certainly an option, I actually don't rely on the unblockable so heavily so I keep a warhorn at the time of my inventory for additional boons pre combat and go in with longbow and greatsword. I guess keeping a greatsword at the top of your inventory for a maul->winter's bite is an option. If they changed it so that effects like maul's AoO or Warhorn's unblockable are removed if the relevant weapons are unequipped that'd at least force the ranger to commit to those weapons. > I don't see why they would, guardians have been sneaking a focus 5 in before combat since the game was new > > I'm all for having less attacks that deal >15k damage, regardless of how hard they are to pull off. But of course, priority should always be on easier/more popular ones. > Yeah, this game needs to lower the cap on damage potential _and_ the ability to tank. My necro got sniped by a 24k gunflame from the enemy zerg the other day, that was a sad moment. > Power creep is bad, everybody including Anet knows it causes more problems than it fixes. Blame the ugly nexus of art and commerce, free-to-play games have free-to-play customer manipulation issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vlad Morbius.1759 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 The fact that this hasn't been addressed yet is a bloody disgrace. If this was my work, my doing, i'd hang my head in shame and to leave it this long is a clear sign that this team is so out of touch it's laughable. Patch this crap before we lose even more players! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoV.5139 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 > @"Celestia.9128" said: > You can always load up your full glass perma stealth one-shot DE to teach those rascals a lesson! Yep, either this or a mesmer. This game is not balanced on "sameness" but on counter play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Lol cheers OP. Similar thing with me. Killing randoms on the side of a zerg is funny. If you call me a no skill ganker, well cool, I have never been too afraid to admit that. Blame mounts imo. It does give a false sense of security though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strider Pj.2193 Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 Said it from the start of the introduction to mounts: more ranged high damage was going to be seen because of the mount being introduced without its own balance. People want to be able to dismount them. The use of more glass ranged options was inevitable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substance E.4852 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > Least I admit it. > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > Simple as. > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > -stone heart weavers > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > Wrong quote. > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > edit: > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > -stone heart weavers > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > edit: > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Ele can't deeps now? I know a guy who could give you lessons for a modest fee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. > > Ele can't deeps now? > I know a guy who could give you lessons for a modest fee It cant hit for 30k at range with one combo. It can barely even hit for 10k with a single skill in a reallistic scenario. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > > > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. > > > > Ele can't deeps now? > > I know a guy who could give you lessons for a modest fee > > It cant hit for 30k at range with one combo. It can barely even hit for 10k with a single skill in a reallistic scenario. So then yes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectrito.8513 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 People comparing the most shitty class in the game with soulbeast rofl Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"spectrito.8513" said: > People comparing the most kitten class in the game with soulbeast rofl > @"LetoII.3782" said: > I know a guy who could give you lessons for a modest fee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectrito.8513 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > People comparing the most kitten class in the game with soulbeast rofl > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > I know a guy who could give you lessons for a modest fee > > Why would i pay for lessons if i can bring my guild of soulbeasts and press 2 for the win? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoV.5139 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. Other classes have their own one shot / one combo kill gimmick builds. The claim that is not there for others is false. I have no issue with SB on my mesmer. Its pretty easy to hard counter them, being able to go from range to being right on top of them, evade and DPS at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > People comparing the most kitten class in the game with soulbeast rofl > > > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > I know a guy who could give you lessons for a modest fee > > > > > > Why would i pay for lessons if i can bring my guild of soulbeasts and press 2 for the win? If you could actually do that would you be raging on the forums? 5x soulbeast would be a junk comp and you know it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectrito.8513 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > People comparing the most kitten class in the game with soulbeast rofl > > > > > > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > I know a guy who could give you lessons for a modest fee > > > > > > > > > > Why would i pay for lessons if i can bring my guild of soulbeasts and press 2 for the win? > > If you could actually do that would you be raging on the forums? > 5x soulbeast would be a junk comp and you know it. Some people feel good to kill people by simply pressing a button, im not one of those. Bad balance is just one of the reasons people are mad and why WvW population is shrinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > People comparing the most kitten class in the game with soulbeast rofl > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > I know a guy who could give you lessons for a modest fee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would i pay for lessons if i can bring my guild of soulbeasts and press 2 for the win? > > > > If you could actually do that would you be raging on the forums? > > 5x soulbeast would be a junk comp and you know it. > > Some people feel good to kill people by simply pressing a button > Wait, we're talking about warrior now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > > People comparing the most kitten class in the game with soulbeast rofl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > > I know a guy who could give you lessons for a modest fee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would i pay for lessons if i can bring my guild of soulbeasts and press 2 for the win? > > > > > > If you could actually do that would you be raging on the forums? > > > 5x soulbeast would be a junk comp and you know it. > > > > Some people feel good to kill people by simply pressing a button > > > > > Wait, we're talking about warrior now? Don't engage in such obvious lies. Warriors need to kill people by mashing the button. Big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > > > People comparing the most kitten class in the game with soulbeast rofl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > > > I know a guy who could give you lessons for a modest fee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would i pay for lessons if i can bring my guild of soulbeasts and press 2 for the win? > > > > > > > > If you could actually do that would you be raging on the forums? > > > > 5x soulbeast would be a junk comp and you know it. > > > > > > Some people feel good to kill people by simply pressing a button > > > > > > > > > Wait, we're talking about warrior now? > > Don't engage in such obvious lies. Warriors need to kill people by mashing the button. Big difference. I'll have you know I've spent 3 hours mastering warrior and am well aware of how much forehead pressure is required. I simply assumed it went without mentioning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted June 27, 2019 Share Posted June 27, 2019 > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > > > > People comparing the most kitten class in the game with soulbeast rofl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > > > > I know a guy who could give you lessons for a modest fee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would i pay for lessons if i can bring my guild of soulbeasts and press 2 for the win? > > > > > > > > > > If you could actually do that would you be raging on the forums? > > > > > 5x soulbeast would be a junk comp and you know it. > > > > > > > > Some people feel good to kill people by simply pressing a button > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait, we're talking about warrior now? > > > > Don't engage in such obvious lies. Warriors need to kill people by mashing the button. Big difference. > > I'll have you know I've spent 3 hours mastering warrior and am well aware of how much forehead pressure is required. > > I simply assumed it went without mentioning. It probably didn't but I was a noob and hurt my head banging it on the keyboard. What is the meta direction for rolling the face across keyboard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Substance E.4852 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. Post these videos then and make sure they're ones where I can see the person's gear. We're not doing this bullshit "oh noes I got nuked on my marauder gimmick build!" song and dance anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > @"ArchonWing.9480" said: > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > > > > > People comparing the most kitten class in the game with soulbeast rofl > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"LetoII.3782" said: > > > > > > > > > I know a guy who could give you lessons for a modest fee > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Why would i pay for lessons if i can bring my guild of soulbeasts and press 2 for the win? > > > > > > > > > > > > If you could actually do that would you be raging on the forums? > > > > > > 5x soulbeast would be a junk comp and you know it. > > > > > > > > > > Some people feel good to kill people by simply pressing a button > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Wait, we're talking about warrior now? > > > > > > Don't engage in such obvious lies. Warriors need to kill people by mashing the button. Big difference. > > > > I'll have you know I've spent 3 hours mastering warrior and am well aware of how much forehead pressure is required. > > > > I simply assumed it went without mentioning. > > It probably didn't but I was a noob and hurt my head banging it on the keyboard. > > What is the meta direction for rolling the face across keyboard? You just need to develop a forehead callus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. > > Post these videos then and make sure they're ones where I can see the person's gear. > > We're not doing this kitten "oh noes I got nuked on my marauder gimmick build!" song and dance anymore But if they are both in marauder, why should one deal 15k damage and other 30k damage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoV.5139 Posted June 28, 2019 Share Posted June 28, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > @"Noha.3749" said: > > > > > > Montages doesnt change anything really. > > > > > > > > > > > > Most profession got weird cheese-glasscannon burst builds, and those are probably the most common ones you find in WvW (Soulbeast pew, deadeyes, gunflames etc) > > > > > > > > > > > > The same builds mostly loses in fights with *cough* proper *cough* roaming builds which includes a well balanced set of damage and defence, utility and mobility. > > > > > > > > > > > > Also, no profession is really "hard" after playing it for some time, what makes anything hard in this game is most likely upping reactiontime and getting a sharp eye on what abilities the enemy is casting, and learning their moveset, abilities and common rotations. > > > > > > > > > > > > Glasscannon soulbeasts are no exception, dealing incredible damage but dies to a sneeze once engaged by a brawler. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rapid fire is annoying from 1800 range, but man. So is getting meteor showered from ~1800 range (from 1200 range fire4-5 + teleport) which instead of downing 1 player, it potentially downs like 5+ people and deals ~200k dmg. But aint no one complaining bout staff weavers :p > > > > > > > > > > You can rapid fire from that range all the time though, you can't with MS. Also MS is a delayed aoe, rapid fire can kill someone before meteors even start falling. Who says that rapid fire cant hit and down 5 people? > > > > > > > > > > Besides, those 200k dmg happen over 9 seconds, rapid fire takes 2 at most. Not to mention that blocking/absorbing MS lets you facetank it later because it does 3k per hit at most and you can freely walk outside of aoe at that point. No LoS, no blinks, no evades, no leaps...simply walk out. > > > > > > > > > > There's also no point of comparing an aoe field with a point and click skill because they serve different purposes. Why does pile driver not hit for 30k? It's also a channel and pierces. You get 10k at most if you're lucky and have might that you got from others. Why doesn't plasma beam hit for over 10k? It has half range of rapid fire. > > > > > > > > > > No one here is complaining about rapid fire though. It's balanced on core ranger, it's sick em and might sharing from F5 merge that are broken and make every single skill hit for at least ~10k for 10 seconds. > > > > > > > > > > And no, this doesn't make herald damage not too strong, might output on holo/herald/warr not OP etc. They just aren't as broken as soulbeast. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > @"Substance E.4852" said: > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > >well yeah the sic em build is at range but if a reaper ever gets in close than it's not so much a hard counter as sic em centric builds fall fast when pressured in melee range unless the ranger is actually good at the class but most arnt and only use pew pew sic em cheese to get downs, like me :) > > > > > > > Least I admit it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Doesn't matter how good you are tbh, the pew pew requires traits and skills that don't help in sustained melee fights. If you close the gap, the ranger dies. > > > > > > > > > > > > Simple as. > > > > > > > > > > > > All this complaining is just from people who want to be able to waltz around on their own one shot cheese build without danger. > > > > > > > > > > > > Classes that make a total mockery of pewpew ranger: > > > > > > > > > > > > -Any war with long duration phys immunity and greatword > > > > > > -Mesmer with constant evades and blinks > > > > > > -stone heart weavers > > > > > > -scrappers with barrier spam > > > > > > -thieves that run dagger storm instead of bask venom for once > > > > > > > > > > Wrong quote. > > > > > > > > > > There's already a video posted (probably in other SLB thread,) where he failed to do burst from range and still stomped the target in melee range because axe, GS and/or F skills were also critting for 10k and they are all in melee range. You'd eventually hit at least one of those and an auto which is enough to down someone, which is exactly what happened in said video. > > > > > > > > > > It's pretty stupid how a build can get 24 might, have unblockable attacks and insane damage output for 10 seconds (all in 4 skills, of which 2 are instant) while having highest range and decent enough mobility. There's no arguments in saying that it's balanced compared to other builds, especially roaming ones. > > > > > > > > > > edit: > > > > > > > > > > Mesmer cant evade when it's dead. Stone heart is literally never used (love how you say ranger requires traits to do damage, like weaver doesnt...) and thief also cant evade when it's dead. Warr can maybe survive, depending on how you approach one (winter's bite will ignore passive procs though because it can kill a warr when it's above 50%). There's plenty of posts where even tankier builds get hit for over 20k with one skills, just because a build has barrier doesnt mean that it can pop everything instantly as soon as it takes damage (and that damage is far higher than both healthpool and the barrier that can be applied). > > > > > > > > > > Again, you have no valid arguments. With same logic I could say that you can equip an owl pet, GS and stone signet, proc stealth from lb3 and fly 2k range away with your leaps while being immune to damage whenever you fail your 1-shot combo, which makes it the 0 risk, best reward build in the game. > > > > > > > > I laid out plenty of arguments but you just hand wave them away with tall tales of 20k winter's bites instagibing roam warriors. > > > > > > > > When you have to literally lie to make a point, it's not a very good one. > > > > > > There's no tales, only videos. You can call them all cherry-picked montages, but considering that combo is pretty hard to fail it's far from being unrealistic. > > > > > > Your arguments also don't say why it's justified for soulbeast to do very high damage, but it's not for others. Or why it can have oneshots from range and stealth while others dont. Or why it can have oneshots from 1800 range while others dont. Or why it can have high mobility on top of those. > > > > Post these videos then and make sure they're ones where I can see the person's gear. > > > > We're not doing this kitten "oh noes I got nuked on my marauder gimmick build!" song and dance anymore > > But if they are both in marauder, why should one deal 15k damage and other 30k damage? Because the one dealing 15K didnt push the other two buttons needed for an optimal burst combo. What people are REALLY mad at is that SB does a burst by pushing two buttons, while the other gimmick marauder builds have to push 4-5 buttons to combo the same damage in the same amount of time. Since "I'm mad I have to take three more actions" isnt a good platform to argue from, they couch their agenda in terms of game balance, claiming unbalanced game due to this comparison. GW2 simply is not balanced based on ability homogenization. Its balanced on rock-paper-scissors philosophy. The constant demand for a nerf by comparing this one thing to these other things fails to see this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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