Kovu.7560 Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 edit- Actually disregard this post. If nothing else, you're right that this isn't the place for three year old guild drama. This forum desperately needs a delete post option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > Anything you can do out of combat that takes less than 2 seconds is not setup. > If you need more than 2 seconds to analyze an incoming threat popping skills to buff to 25 might I understand the problem. > What does this have to do with anything? Warrior thief and reapers burst damage all relies on a mechanic that's built into the class that requires setup. As in you need to fight in order to build your burst up. Ranger presses 3 buttons out of combat and its ready to hit you for max damage. I don't understand why you're bringing up irrelevant issues like situational awareness and might stacking. Did you read my post? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted July 6, 2019 Share Posted July 6, 2019 > @"Doug.4930" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > Actually a DE, DD and core Thief can dismount you easily too. Which from my point of view is fair and needed for the game. > > > > You literally can't in enemy territory and MAYBE in your own and only if the enemy is completely clueless and you would have to blow your whole kit to do it. > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > > > > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. > > > > How does this make any sense? Boonbeast is literally more broken than longbow yet you say longbow is better and you'd rather fight a boonbeast? Heck, Holo is better than longbow and Rev is as good. > > > > You are talking about glassbeast which folds to anything evading their burst or balanced longbow which is better for dueling but doesn't hit AA's over 5k or what? Because you are making zero sense here, any glass build can oneshot things and they are almost all bad. unless it is a Mesmer or Thief build. > > > > Can we see some duels between LB soulbeasts and sword revs, boonbeasts condi mes and holo's? If it is the most broken thing it should win these matchups every time right? Because LB should lose these matchups every time lol. > > > > So yeah stop being a necro complaining about rock when you say paper is fine. > > Oh I wouldn't say any of those classes are fine. My gripe is that If a terrible player runs one of those builds, they aren't very dangerous. Sure if a decent player runs them its pretty broken thats true. But I would still rather face one of those builds over a SB longbow simply because a terrible player running SB + Sicem + longbow is one of the most dangerous things in WvW at the moment. They can press 3 buttons and deal upwards of 25k of damage without any setup or thought. No matter how bad they are those 3 buttons force any player to drop very expensive cool downs to survive. It requires 100% no thought or ability whatsoever. Im not saying the other builds are extremely hard to play mind you, but I am saying that SB longbow is so mindbogglingly easy that a player who has never played WvW before can be told "hey press these 3 buttons" and they become more dangerous than 90% of players on the field. Because they can output a ridiculous amount of damage with absolutely no setup from 1,800 range. > > You can't balance a game solely around 1v1's anyway. SB longbow is far far to good at its job. Killing enemies in 0.5 seconds from 1,800 range. Its the most overpowered broken thing in this game at the moment. I'd rather die to an overpowered holosmith or boonbeast who at least has to have some semblance of what they are doing over a player running SB + sicem + longbow who only needs to press 3 buttons inorder to deliver an unblockable rapid fire from 1,800 range capable of dealing anywhere between 15k-30k depending on how glassy they are. > > No Im not talking about glass beast. Glass beast can hit auto attacks for 17k and winters bite for 35k (google it im not making this up). That is overkill. Nobody runs that except for meme value. (the fact that going full glass on SB can give us these numbers is still insanely broken). Whats far more frustrating are SB longbows who build a bit of surivabilty, and can still deal 6k auto attacks with a 20k rapid fire. The amount of damage modifies soul beast gets is broken. > > An easy fix would be to change sicem to "your pets skills do 40% more damage". This way core rangers pets would still deal 40% more damage while the effect is active. But longbow soul beasts won't be able to abuse the 40% instant damage modifier to turn their longbow into a gau-8 avenger. > > My main point though is alot of people think SB + sicem is broken as all hell, and its not because its the only build that counters the more over powered stupid mounts. We shouldn't balance around bad players incompetence. > @"SoV.5139" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > Actually a DE, DD and core Thief can dismount you easily too. Which from my point of view is fair and needed for the game. > > > > You literally can't in enemy territory and MAYBE in your own and only if the enemy is completely clueless and you would have to blow your whole kit to do it. > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > > > > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. > > > > How does this make any sense? Boonbeast is literally more broken than longbow yet you say longbow is better and you'd rather fight a boonbeast? Heck, Holo is better than longbow and Rev is as good. > > > > You are talking about glassbeast which folds to anything evading their burst or balanced longbow which is better for dueling but doesn't hit AA's over 5k or what? Because you are making zero sense here, any glass build can oneshot things and they are almost all bad. unless it is a Mesmer or Thief build. > > > > Can we see some duels between LB soulbeasts and sword revs, boonbeasts condi mes and holo's? If it is the most broken thing it should win these matchups every time right? Because LB should lose these matchups every time lol. > > > > So yeah stop being a necro complaining about rock when you say paper is fine. > > Blowing whole kit to do 10K damage? > > Reads all the other threads about 25K HP / 3K armor characters being one shot killed. > > Someones lying, heh. I duel a guardian often and they don't lose more than half their HP, you can't win, only if i go full glass and get lucky, if they dodge i autolose because there is zero followup, hence the glass version is bad and just a noobstomper. > @"Doug.4930" said: > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > My main point though is alot of people think SB + sicem is broken as all hell, and its not because its the only build that counters the more over powered stupid mounts. > > Alot by what metric? I rarely see them. Most days roaming is just fighting meta holo/spellbreaker/rev/fb/scourge heavy melee stacked groups. The more players they are, the more to the right part of this setup they lean. When these groups have a soulbeast... oh boy. That poor thing. More targeted than a scourge. Sure I encounter solo soulbeasts too, but exceedingly few have the build or the skills to be any threat. And when they are a threat and defeat me, regardless of being a boonbeast or sic em then everytime its *if there was only one more of me here we would have won*. Because thats how WvW works. > > > > This doomsaying really remind me of the mirage arguments half a year ago, when according to the forums 99% of roamers was *apparently* running mirages that instakilled you while being immortal, yet ingame you saw one good mirage like... once a month. > > > > Its a strong build, with lots of damage no denying that. Maybe it even need nerfs. But just like any strong build in the hands of terrible players, it becomes pretty meh in WvW where half the fights is sustaining outmanned. > > I can agree with a lot of what you're saying, but would reiterate that just because builds like holosmith etc are overpowered or more overpowered doesn't mean SB longbow isn't. I think that the ability to one shot players with no setup and no risk is unhealthy for the game. At least with most 1 shot burst builds they need to actually build adrenaline/malice before delivering half of the sort of damage a soul beast can dish out. Furthermore a ranger by default has so much mobility that the longbow builds can usually escape any fight when they choose too. But I certainly wouldn't want to nerf rangers mobility because I think rangers should be mobile, its sort of half the point of a "ranger" to be quick and nimble. But that much mobility with that much damage is broken. So the damage needs to be toned down. > > Years ago when the game was more balanced this was the only build that could reliably 1 shot without setup: > > > > The tradeoff was that you needed to be on top of the target, and use pretty much every cool down to deliver the burst, which could be negated by a block, as unlike soul beast its burst was block able. If you failed to kill the target you had no condi clears, no mobility, no stealth, no blocks and no invulns. You were dead. Now a soul beast has every single one of those tools i just mentioned. On top of being able to deliver its full burst at 1,800 range. > > Something needs to be done about it, i sorry but I just can't understand how the existence of that build is in anyway good for the game. Balance is relative, there isn't more broken or less broken, there is a standard that is set awhich is balanced around, the problem is this whole game is broken, this game uses the "ifeverything is broken nothing is" philosophy for balance which i myself don't like either, but isn't unfair. Also, you don't have to build jack, pop signet and full adrenaline. Thief doesn't have to build malice, you just pop mark and 2 signets proceed to backstab, mesmer blows 7 cds but doesn't require setup. But yeah what setup did i need here again? This is with the wrong heal skill, you'd normally be able to do it 3 times in a row, not 2. Like jeez this comment of yours shows you know nothing about glass builds, they all don't require setup, just cds. All of them are also outclassed by balanced and bunker builds too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > Actually a DE, DD and core Thief can dismount you easily too. Which from my point of view is fair and needed for the game. > > > > > > You literally can't in enemy territory and MAYBE in your own and only if the enemy is completely clueless and you would have to blow your whole kit to do it. > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > > > > > > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. > > > > > > How does this make any sense? Boonbeast is literally more broken than longbow yet you say longbow is better and you'd rather fight a boonbeast? Heck, Holo is better than longbow and Rev is as good. > > > > > > You are talking about glassbeast which folds to anything evading their burst or balanced longbow which is better for dueling but doesn't hit AA's over 5k or what? Because you are making zero sense here, any glass build can oneshot things and they are almost all bad. unless it is a Mesmer or Thief build. > > > > > > Can we see some duels between LB soulbeasts and sword revs, boonbeasts condi mes and holo's? If it is the most broken thing it should win these matchups every time right? Because LB should lose these matchups every time lol. > > > > > > So yeah stop being a necro complaining about rock when you say paper is fine. > > > > Oh I wouldn't say any of those classes are fine. My gripe is that If a terrible player runs one of those builds, they aren't very dangerous. Sure if a decent player runs them its pretty broken thats true. But I would still rather face one of those builds over a SB longbow simply because a terrible player running SB + Sicem + longbow is one of the most dangerous things in WvW at the moment. They can press 3 buttons and deal upwards of 25k of damage without any setup or thought. No matter how bad they are those 3 buttons force any player to drop very expensive cool downs to survive. It requires 100% no thought or ability whatsoever. Im not saying the other builds are extremely hard to play mind you, but I am saying that SB longbow is so mindbogglingly easy that a player who has never played WvW before can be told "hey press these 3 buttons" and they become more dangerous than 90% of players on the field. Because they can output a ridiculous amount of damage with absolutely no setup from 1,800 range. > > > > You can't balance a game solely around 1v1's anyway. SB longbow is far far to good at its job. Killing enemies in 0.5 seconds from 1,800 range. Its the most overpowered broken thing in this game at the moment. I'd rather die to an overpowered holosmith or boonbeast who at least has to have some semblance of what they are doing over a player running SB + sicem + longbow who only needs to press 3 buttons inorder to deliver an unblockable rapid fire from 1,800 range capable of dealing anywhere between 15k-30k depending on how glassy they are. > > > > No Im not talking about glass beast. Glass beast can hit auto attacks for 17k and winters bite for 35k (google it im not making this up). That is overkill. Nobody runs that except for meme value. (the fact that going full glass on SB can give us these numbers is still insanely broken). Whats far more frustrating are SB longbows who build a bit of surivabilty, and can still deal 6k auto attacks with a 20k rapid fire. The amount of damage modifies soul beast gets is broken. > > > > An easy fix would be to change sicem to "your pets skills do 40% more damage". This way core rangers pets would still deal 40% more damage while the effect is active. But longbow soul beasts won't be able to abuse the 40% instant damage modifier to turn their longbow into a gau-8 avenger. > > > > My main point though is alot of people think SB + sicem is broken as all hell, and its not because its the only build that counters the more over powered stupid mounts. > > We shouldn't balance around bad players incompetence. Yes. Yes we should. A super easy to play build that can out damage every other class and is vastly easier to play should be balanced accordingly. If this build was extremely hard to play and only 5% of players were capable of using it to the potential we currently see in WvW I'd probably not have too much of an Issue with it. So yes we absolutely should balance around what the average player can do with a class/build. > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > Actually a DE, DD and core Thief can dismount you easily too. Which from my point of view is fair and needed for the game. > > > > > > You literally can't in enemy territory and MAYBE in your own and only if the enemy is completely clueless and you would have to blow your whole kit to do it. > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > > > > > > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. > > > > > > How does this make any sense? Boonbeast is literally more broken than longbow yet you say longbow is better and you'd rather fight a boonbeast? Heck, Holo is better than longbow and Rev is as good. > > > > > > You are talking about glassbeast which folds to anything evading their burst or balanced longbow which is better for dueling but doesn't hit AA's over 5k or what? Because you are making zero sense here, any glass build can oneshot things and they are almost all bad. unless it is a Mesmer or Thief build. > > > > > > Can we see some duels between LB soulbeasts and sword revs, boonbeasts condi mes and holo's? If it is the most broken thing it should win these matchups every time right? Because LB should lose these matchups every time lol. > > > > > > So yeah stop being a necro complaining about rock when you say paper is fine. > > > > Blowing whole kit to do 10K damage? > > > > Reads all the other threads about 25K HP / 3K armor characters being one shot killed. > > > > Someones lying, heh. > > I duel a guardian often and they don't lose more than half their HP, you can't win, only if i go full glass and get lucky, if they dodge i autolose because there is zero followup, hence the glass version is bad and just a noobstomper. > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > My main point though is alot of people think SB + sicem is broken as all hell, and its not because its the only build that counters the more over powered stupid mounts. > > > Alot by what metric? I rarely see them. Most days roaming is just fighting meta holo/spellbreaker/rev/fb/scourge heavy melee stacked groups. The more players they are, the more to the right part of this setup they lean. When these groups have a soulbeast... oh boy. That poor thing. More targeted than a scourge. Sure I encounter solo soulbeasts too, but exceedingly few have the build or the skills to be any threat. And when they are a threat and defeat me, regardless of being a boonbeast or sic em then everytime its *if there was only one more of me here we would have won*. Because thats how WvW works. > > > > > > This doomsaying really remind me of the mirage arguments half a year ago, when according to the forums 99% of roamers was *apparently* running mirages that instakilled you while being immortal, yet ingame you saw one good mirage like... once a month. > > > > > > Its a strong build, with lots of damage no denying that. Maybe it even need nerfs. But just like any strong build in the hands of terrible players, it becomes pretty meh in WvW where half the fights is sustaining outmanned. > > > > I can agree with a lot of what you're saying, but would reiterate that just because builds like holosmith etc are overpowered or more overpowered doesn't mean SB longbow isn't. I think that the ability to one shot players with no setup and no risk is unhealthy for the game. At least with most 1 shot burst builds they need to actually build adrenaline/malice before delivering half of the sort of damage a soul beast can dish out. Furthermore a ranger by default has so much mobility that the longbow builds can usually escape any fight when they choose too. But I certainly wouldn't want to nerf rangers mobility because I think rangers should be mobile, its sort of half the point of a "ranger" to be quick and nimble. But that much mobility with that much damage is broken. So the damage needs to be toned down. > > > > Years ago when the game was more balanced this was the only build that could reliably 1 shot without setup: > > > > > > > > The tradeoff was that you needed to be on top of the target, and use pretty much every cool down to deliver the burst, which could be negated by a block, as unlike soul beast its burst was block able. If you failed to kill the target you had no condi clears, no mobility, no stealth, no blocks and no invulns. You were dead. Now a soul beast has every single one of those tools i just mentioned. On top of being able to deliver its full burst at 1,800 range. > > > > Something needs to be done about it, i sorry but I just can't understand how the existence of that build is in anyway good for the game. > > Balance is relative, there isn't more broken or less broken, there is a standard that is set awhich is balanced around, the problem is this whole game is broken, this game uses the "ifeverything is broken nothing is" philosophy for balance which i myself don't like either, but isn't unfair. Also, you don't have to build jack, pop signet and full adrenaline. Thief doesn't have to build malice, you just pop mark and 2 signets proceed to backstab, mesmer blows 7 cds but doesn't require setup. > > But yeah what setup did i need here again? > > > > This is with the wrong heal skill, you'd normally be able to do it 3 times in a row, not 2. > > Like jeez this comment of yours shows you know nothing about glass builds, they all don't require setup, just cds. All of them are also outclassed by balanced and bunker builds too. Hey if the only way for Soulbeast to output its damage would be for it to be on top of its target like the gimmick zerker in you're video I think nobody would have a problem with soulbeast. Also you actually had to get into combat to build that adrenaline and not press 3 button outside of combat, so yea still setup because you were in combat. The fact that Soulbeast need not enter combat before delivering its burst is probably one of the main issues with it. But who knows, maybe I've missed the 20 threads calling out berserker warrior for being broken or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 > @"Doug.4930" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > Actually a DE, DD and core Thief can dismount you easily too. Which from my point of view is fair and needed for the game. > > > > > > > > You literally can't in enemy territory and MAYBE in your own and only if the enemy is completely clueless and you would have to blow your whole kit to do it. > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > > > > > > > > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. > > > > > > > > How does this make any sense? Boonbeast is literally more broken than longbow yet you say longbow is better and you'd rather fight a boonbeast? Heck, Holo is better than longbow and Rev is as good. > > > > > > > > You are talking about glassbeast which folds to anything evading their burst or balanced longbow which is better for dueling but doesn't hit AA's over 5k or what? Because you are making zero sense here, any glass build can oneshot things and they are almost all bad. unless it is a Mesmer or Thief build. > > > > > > > > Can we see some duels between LB soulbeasts and sword revs, boonbeasts condi mes and holo's? If it is the most broken thing it should win these matchups every time right? Because LB should lose these matchups every time lol. > > > > > > > > So yeah stop being a necro complaining about rock when you say paper is fine. > > > > > > Oh I wouldn't say any of those classes are fine. My gripe is that If a terrible player runs one of those builds, they aren't very dangerous. Sure if a decent player runs them its pretty broken thats true. But I would still rather face one of those builds over a SB longbow simply because a terrible player running SB + Sicem + longbow is one of the most dangerous things in WvW at the moment. They can press 3 buttons and deal upwards of 25k of damage without any setup or thought. No matter how bad they are those 3 buttons force any player to drop very expensive cool downs to survive. It requires 100% no thought or ability whatsoever. Im not saying the other builds are extremely hard to play mind you, but I am saying that SB longbow is so mindbogglingly easy that a player who has never played WvW before can be told "hey press these 3 buttons" and they become more dangerous than 90% of players on the field. Because they can output a ridiculous amount of damage with absolutely no setup from 1,800 range. > > > > > > You can't balance a game solely around 1v1's anyway. SB longbow is far far to good at its job. Killing enemies in 0.5 seconds from 1,800 range. Its the most overpowered broken thing in this game at the moment. I'd rather die to an overpowered holosmith or boonbeast who at least has to have some semblance of what they are doing over a player running SB + sicem + longbow who only needs to press 3 buttons inorder to deliver an unblockable rapid fire from 1,800 range capable of dealing anywhere between 15k-30k depending on how glassy they are. > > > > > > No Im not talking about glass beast. Glass beast can hit auto attacks for 17k and winters bite for 35k (google it im not making this up). That is overkill. Nobody runs that except for meme value. (the fact that going full glass on SB can give us these numbers is still insanely broken). Whats far more frustrating are SB longbows who build a bit of surivabilty, and can still deal 6k auto attacks with a 20k rapid fire. The amount of damage modifies soul beast gets is broken. > > > > > > An easy fix would be to change sicem to "your pets skills do 40% more damage". This way core rangers pets would still deal 40% more damage while the effect is active. But longbow soul beasts won't be able to abuse the 40% instant damage modifier to turn their longbow into a gau-8 avenger. > > > > > > My main point though is alot of people think SB + sicem is broken as all hell, and its not because its the only build that counters the more over powered stupid mounts. > > > > We shouldn't balance around bad players incompetence. > > Yes. Yes we should. A super easy to play build that can out damage every other class and is vastly easier to play should be balanced accordingly. If this build was extremely hard to play and only 5% of players were capable of using it to the potential we currently see in WvW I'd probably not have too much of an Issue with it. So yes we absolutely should balance around what the average player can do with a class/build. > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > Actually a DE, DD and core Thief can dismount you easily too. Which from my point of view is fair and needed for the game. > > > > > > > > You literally can't in enemy territory and MAYBE in your own and only if the enemy is completely clueless and you would have to blow your whole kit to do it. > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > > > > > > > > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. > > > > > > > > How does this make any sense? Boonbeast is literally more broken than longbow yet you say longbow is better and you'd rather fight a boonbeast? Heck, Holo is better than longbow and Rev is as good. > > > > > > > > You are talking about glassbeast which folds to anything evading their burst or balanced longbow which is better for dueling but doesn't hit AA's over 5k or what? Because you are making zero sense here, any glass build can oneshot things and they are almost all bad. unless it is a Mesmer or Thief build. > > > > > > > > Can we see some duels between LB soulbeasts and sword revs, boonbeasts condi mes and holo's? If it is the most broken thing it should win these matchups every time right? Because LB should lose these matchups every time lol. > > > > > > > > So yeah stop being a necro complaining about rock when you say paper is fine. > > > > > > Blowing whole kit to do 10K damage? > > > > > > Reads all the other threads about 25K HP / 3K armor characters being one shot killed. > > > > > > Someones lying, heh. > > > > I duel a guardian often and they don't lose more than half their HP, you can't win, only if i go full glass and get lucky, if they dodge i autolose because there is zero followup, hence the glass version is bad and just a noobstomper. > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > My main point though is alot of people think SB + sicem is broken as all hell, and its not because its the only build that counters the more over powered stupid mounts. > > > > Alot by what metric? I rarely see them. Most days roaming is just fighting meta holo/spellbreaker/rev/fb/scourge heavy melee stacked groups. The more players they are, the more to the right part of this setup they lean. When these groups have a soulbeast... oh boy. That poor thing. More targeted than a scourge. Sure I encounter solo soulbeasts too, but exceedingly few have the build or the skills to be any threat. And when they are a threat and defeat me, regardless of being a boonbeast or sic em then everytime its *if there was only one more of me here we would have won*. Because thats how WvW works. > > > > > > > > This doomsaying really remind me of the mirage arguments half a year ago, when according to the forums 99% of roamers was *apparently* running mirages that instakilled you while being immortal, yet ingame you saw one good mirage like... once a month. > > > > > > > > Its a strong build, with lots of damage no denying that. Maybe it even need nerfs. But just like any strong build in the hands of terrible players, it becomes pretty meh in WvW where half the fights is sustaining outmanned. > > > > > > I can agree with a lot of what you're saying, but would reiterate that just because builds like holosmith etc are overpowered or more overpowered doesn't mean SB longbow isn't. I think that the ability to one shot players with no setup and no risk is unhealthy for the game. At least with most 1 shot burst builds they need to actually build adrenaline/malice before delivering half of the sort of damage a soul beast can dish out. Furthermore a ranger by default has so much mobility that the longbow builds can usually escape any fight when they choose too. But I certainly wouldn't want to nerf rangers mobility because I think rangers should be mobile, its sort of half the point of a "ranger" to be quick and nimble. But that much mobility with that much damage is broken. So the damage needs to be toned down. > > > > > > Years ago when the game was more balanced this was the only build that could reliably 1 shot without setup: > > > > > > > > > > > > The tradeoff was that you needed to be on top of the target, and use pretty much every cool down to deliver the burst, which could be negated by a block, as unlike soul beast its burst was block able. If you failed to kill the target you had no condi clears, no mobility, no stealth, no blocks and no invulns. You were dead. Now a soul beast has every single one of those tools i just mentioned. On top of being able to deliver its full burst at 1,800 range. > > > > > > Something needs to be done about it, i sorry but I just can't understand how the existence of that build is in anyway good for the game. > > > > Balance is relative, there isn't more broken or less broken, there is a standard that is set awhich is balanced around, the problem is this whole game is broken, this game uses the "ifeverything is broken nothing is" philosophy for balance which i myself don't like either, but isn't unfair. Also, you don't have to build jack, pop signet and full adrenaline. Thief doesn't have to build malice, you just pop mark and 2 signets proceed to backstab, mesmer blows 7 cds but doesn't require setup. > > > > But yeah what setup did i need here again? > > > > > > > > This is with the wrong heal skill, you'd normally be able to do it 3 times in a row, not 2. > > > > Like jeez this comment of yours shows you know nothing about glass builds, they all don't require setup, just cds. All of them are also outclassed by balanced and bunker builds too. > > Hey if the only way for Soulbeast to output its damage would be for it to be on top of its target like the gimmick zerker in you're video I think nobody would have a problem with soulbeast. Also you actually had to get into combat to build that adrenaline and not press 3 button outside of combat, so yea still setup because you were in combat. The fact that Soulbeast need not enter combat before delivering its burst is probably one of the main issues with it. > But who knows, maybe I've missed the 20 threads calling out berserker warrior for being broken or something. We absolutely shouldn't that makes zero sense, have you ever played any dedicated PvP game? You don't balance around bad players incompetence, you balance about something being played optimally without any skill floor requirments takes into account, it is all about the ceiling. Just because the average player in this game isn't good doesn't mean we should balance around them, that is 100% an L2P issue. Also i literally had to just pop a signet to fill my adrenaline bar, do you even know how warrior works? Also what kind of excuse is that? SB has to get into combat too for their burst, this whole argument makes no sense, literally every build needs to get into combat to get their burst, that isn't setup that is just engaging. Warrior offers many things ranger doesn't in return for the range, survivability-wise. Like i said before, the only reason poeple complain is because the longbow can dismount them, unlike the berserker which can't even reach their mount. These poeple don't give a shit about actual 1v1/roaming balance and just care about being shot down while on their way farming karma. Can you show me you beating a GOOD holosmith on longbow soulbeast? I really want to see it, or a good sword rev, or a condi mes, or a waver, because the burst is so OP amirite, it's not like you will invul a glassbeast burst and then oneshot them or condibomb them rite. Why do good duelers never have problems with these SB's? It is a big L2P issue of getting shot down from your mount while trying to join the mindless blob, i see so many reapers for example and they are either a free kill or unkillable with the LOS, no inbetween, big L2P issues here, nobody i know has trouble comprehending a rapid fire being shot at you, i just use weaver evade water 2 defensive rotation try to land a condi bomb etc etc. Just tired of bads complaining when there is way better out there but they don't care because a holo isn't going to shoot you off your mount, just because you can avoid most builds because of heavilly unbalanced mechanics right now doesn't mean they aren't out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually a DE, DD and core Thief can dismount you easily too. Which from my point of view is fair and needed for the game. > > > > > > > > > > You literally can't in enemy territory and MAYBE in your own and only if the enemy is completely clueless and you would have to blow your whole kit to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. > > > > > > > > > > How does this make any sense? Boonbeast is literally more broken than longbow yet you say longbow is better and you'd rather fight a boonbeast? Heck, Holo is better than longbow and Rev is as good. > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about glassbeast which folds to anything evading their burst or balanced longbow which is better for dueling but doesn't hit AA's over 5k or what? Because you are making zero sense here, any glass build can oneshot things and they are almost all bad. unless it is a Mesmer or Thief build. > > > > > > > > > > Can we see some duels between LB soulbeasts and sword revs, boonbeasts condi mes and holo's? If it is the most broken thing it should win these matchups every time right? Because LB should lose these matchups every time lol. > > > > > > > > > > So yeah stop being a necro complaining about rock when you say paper is fine. > > > > > > > > Oh I wouldn't say any of those classes are fine. My gripe is that If a terrible player runs one of those builds, they aren't very dangerous. Sure if a decent player runs them its pretty broken thats true. But I would still rather face one of those builds over a SB longbow simply because a terrible player running SB + Sicem + longbow is one of the most dangerous things in WvW at the moment. They can press 3 buttons and deal upwards of 25k of damage without any setup or thought. No matter how bad they are those 3 buttons force any player to drop very expensive cool downs to survive. It requires 100% no thought or ability whatsoever. Im not saying the other builds are extremely hard to play mind you, but I am saying that SB longbow is so mindbogglingly easy that a player who has never played WvW before can be told "hey press these 3 buttons" and they become more dangerous than 90% of players on the field. Because they can output a ridiculous amount of damage with absolutely no setup from 1,800 range. > > > > > > > > You can't balance a game solely around 1v1's anyway. SB longbow is far far to good at its job. Killing enemies in 0.5 seconds from 1,800 range. Its the most overpowered broken thing in this game at the moment. I'd rather die to an overpowered holosmith or boonbeast who at least has to have some semblance of what they are doing over a player running SB + sicem + longbow who only needs to press 3 buttons inorder to deliver an unblockable rapid fire from 1,800 range capable of dealing anywhere between 15k-30k depending on how glassy they are. > > > > > > > > No Im not talking about glass beast. Glass beast can hit auto attacks for 17k and winters bite for 35k (google it im not making this up). That is overkill. Nobody runs that except for meme value. (the fact that going full glass on SB can give us these numbers is still insanely broken). Whats far more frustrating are SB longbows who build a bit of surivabilty, and can still deal 6k auto attacks with a 20k rapid fire. The amount of damage modifies soul beast gets is broken. > > > > > > > > An easy fix would be to change sicem to "your pets skills do 40% more damage". This way core rangers pets would still deal 40% more damage while the effect is active. But longbow soul beasts won't be able to abuse the 40% instant damage modifier to turn their longbow into a gau-8 avenger. > > > > > > > > My main point though is alot of people think SB + sicem is broken as all hell, and its not because its the only build that counters the more over powered stupid mounts. > > > > > > We shouldn't balance around bad players incompetence. > > > > Yes. Yes we should. A super easy to play build that can out damage every other class and is vastly easier to play should be balanced accordingly. If this build was extremely hard to play and only 5% of players were capable of using it to the potential we currently see in WvW I'd probably not have too much of an Issue with it. So yes we absolutely should balance around what the average player can do with a class/build. > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually a DE, DD and core Thief can dismount you easily too. Which from my point of view is fair and needed for the game. > > > > > > > > > > You literally can't in enemy territory and MAYBE in your own and only if the enemy is completely clueless and you would have to blow your whole kit to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. > > > > > > > > > > How does this make any sense? Boonbeast is literally more broken than longbow yet you say longbow is better and you'd rather fight a boonbeast? Heck, Holo is better than longbow and Rev is as good. > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about glassbeast which folds to anything evading their burst or balanced longbow which is better for dueling but doesn't hit AA's over 5k or what? Because you are making zero sense here, any glass build can oneshot things and they are almost all bad. unless it is a Mesmer or Thief build. > > > > > > > > > > Can we see some duels between LB soulbeasts and sword revs, boonbeasts condi mes and holo's? If it is the most broken thing it should win these matchups every time right? Because LB should lose these matchups every time lol. > > > > > > > > > > So yeah stop being a necro complaining about rock when you say paper is fine. > > > > > > > > Blowing whole kit to do 10K damage? > > > > > > > > Reads all the other threads about 25K HP / 3K armor characters being one shot killed. > > > > > > > > Someones lying, heh. > > > > > > I duel a guardian often and they don't lose more than half their HP, you can't win, only if i go full glass and get lucky, if they dodge i autolose because there is zero followup, hence the glass version is bad and just a noobstomper. > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > My main point though is alot of people think SB + sicem is broken as all hell, and its not because its the only build that counters the more over powered stupid mounts. > > > > > Alot by what metric? I rarely see them. Most days roaming is just fighting meta holo/spellbreaker/rev/fb/scourge heavy melee stacked groups. The more players they are, the more to the right part of this setup they lean. When these groups have a soulbeast... oh boy. That poor thing. More targeted than a scourge. Sure I encounter solo soulbeasts too, but exceedingly few have the build or the skills to be any threat. And when they are a threat and defeat me, regardless of being a boonbeast or sic em then everytime its *if there was only one more of me here we would have won*. Because thats how WvW works. > > > > > > > > > > This doomsaying really remind me of the mirage arguments half a year ago, when according to the forums 99% of roamers was *apparently* running mirages that instakilled you while being immortal, yet ingame you saw one good mirage like... once a month. > > > > > > > > > > Its a strong build, with lots of damage no denying that. Maybe it even need nerfs. But just like any strong build in the hands of terrible players, it becomes pretty meh in WvW where half the fights is sustaining outmanned. > > > > > > > > I can agree with a lot of what you're saying, but would reiterate that just because builds like holosmith etc are overpowered or more overpowered doesn't mean SB longbow isn't. I think that the ability to one shot players with no setup and no risk is unhealthy for the game. At least with most 1 shot burst builds they need to actually build adrenaline/malice before delivering half of the sort of damage a soul beast can dish out. Furthermore a ranger by default has so much mobility that the longbow builds can usually escape any fight when they choose too. But I certainly wouldn't want to nerf rangers mobility because I think rangers should be mobile, its sort of half the point of a "ranger" to be quick and nimble. But that much mobility with that much damage is broken. So the damage needs to be toned down. > > > > > > > > Years ago when the game was more balanced this was the only build that could reliably 1 shot without setup: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tradeoff was that you needed to be on top of the target, and use pretty much every cool down to deliver the burst, which could be negated by a block, as unlike soul beast its burst was block able. If you failed to kill the target you had no condi clears, no mobility, no stealth, no blocks and no invulns. You were dead. Now a soul beast has every single one of those tools i just mentioned. On top of being able to deliver its full burst at 1,800 range. > > > > > > > > Something needs to be done about it, i sorry but I just can't understand how the existence of that build is in anyway good for the game. > > > > > > Balance is relative, there isn't more broken or less broken, there is a standard that is set awhich is balanced around, the problem is this whole game is broken, this game uses the "ifeverything is broken nothing is" philosophy for balance which i myself don't like either, but isn't unfair. Also, you don't have to build jack, pop signet and full adrenaline. Thief doesn't have to build malice, you just pop mark and 2 signets proceed to backstab, mesmer blows 7 cds but doesn't require setup. > > > > > > But yeah what setup did i need here again? > > > > > > > > > > > > This is with the wrong heal skill, you'd normally be able to do it 3 times in a row, not 2. > > > > > > Like jeez this comment of yours shows you know nothing about glass builds, they all don't require setup, just cds. All of them are also outclassed by balanced and bunker builds too. > > > > Hey if the only way for Soulbeast to output its damage would be for it to be on top of its target like the gimmick zerker in you're video I think nobody would have a problem with soulbeast. Also you actually had to get into combat to build that adrenaline and not press 3 button outside of combat, so yea still setup because you were in combat. The fact that Soulbeast need not enter combat before delivering its burst is probably one of the main issues with it. > > But who knows, maybe I've missed the 20 threads calling out berserker warrior for being broken or something. > > We absolutely shouldn't that makes zero sense, have you ever played any dedicated PvP game? You don't balance around bad players incompetence, you balance about something being played optimally without any skill floor requirments takes into account, it is all about the ceiling. > > Just because the average player in this game isn't good doesn't mean we should balance around them, that is 100% an L2P issue. > > Also i literally had to just pop a signet to fill my adrenaline bar, do you even know how warrior works? Also what kind of excuse is that? SB has to get into combat too for their burst, this whole argument makes no sense, literally every build needs to get into combat to get their burst, that isn't setup that is just engaging. > > Warrior offers many things ranger doesn't in return for the range, survivability-wise. > > Like i said before, the only reason poeple complain is because the longbow can dismount them, unlike the berserker which can't even reach their mount. These poeple don't give a kitten about actual 1v1/roaming balance and just care about being shot down while on their way farming karma. > > Can you show me you beating a GOOD holosmith on longbow soulbeast? I really want to see it, or a good sword rev, or a condi mes, or a waver, because the burst is so OP amirite, it's not like you will invul a glassbeast burst and then oneshot them or condibomb them rite. > > Why do good duelers never have problems with these SB's? It is a big L2P issue of getting shot down from your mount while trying to join the mindless blob, i see so many reapers for example and they are either a free kill or unkillable with the LOS, no inbetween, big L2P issues here, nobody i know has trouble comprehending a rapid fire being shot at you, i just use weaver evade water 2 defensive rotation try to land a condi bomb etc etc. > > Just tired of bads complaining when there is way better out there but they don't care because a holo isn't going to shoot you off your mount, just because you can avoid most builds because of heavilly unbalanced mechanics right now doesn't mean they aren't out there. > I've made my arguments, I don't care that some builds/players can beat longbow soulbeasts 1v1. The fact that they cant output so much damage with such little risk is broken, but we can agree to disagree. Although I take some comfort in the fact that you are in the minority and I think we can both agree that Soulbeast longbows damage is going to be nerfed regardless on what you and I say about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 > @"Doug.4930" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually a DE, DD and core Thief can dismount you easily too. Which from my point of view is fair and needed for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > You literally can't in enemy territory and MAYBE in your own and only if the enemy is completely clueless and you would have to blow your whole kit to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this make any sense? Boonbeast is literally more broken than longbow yet you say longbow is better and you'd rather fight a boonbeast? Heck, Holo is better than longbow and Rev is as good. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about glassbeast which folds to anything evading their burst or balanced longbow which is better for dueling but doesn't hit AA's over 5k or what? Because you are making zero sense here, any glass build can oneshot things and they are almost all bad. unless it is a Mesmer or Thief build. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we see some duels between LB soulbeasts and sword revs, boonbeasts condi mes and holo's? If it is the most broken thing it should win these matchups every time right? Because LB should lose these matchups every time lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > So yeah stop being a necro complaining about rock when you say paper is fine. > > > > > > > > > > Oh I wouldn't say any of those classes are fine. My gripe is that If a terrible player runs one of those builds, they aren't very dangerous. Sure if a decent player runs them its pretty broken thats true. But I would still rather face one of those builds over a SB longbow simply because a terrible player running SB + Sicem + longbow is one of the most dangerous things in WvW at the moment. They can press 3 buttons and deal upwards of 25k of damage without any setup or thought. No matter how bad they are those 3 buttons force any player to drop very expensive cool downs to survive. It requires 100% no thought or ability whatsoever. Im not saying the other builds are extremely hard to play mind you, but I am saying that SB longbow is so mindbogglingly easy that a player who has never played WvW before can be told "hey press these 3 buttons" and they become more dangerous than 90% of players on the field. Because they can output a ridiculous amount of damage with absolutely no setup from 1,800 range. > > > > > > > > > > You can't balance a game solely around 1v1's anyway. SB longbow is far far to good at its job. Killing enemies in 0.5 seconds from 1,800 range. Its the most overpowered broken thing in this game at the moment. I'd rather die to an overpowered holosmith or boonbeast who at least has to have some semblance of what they are doing over a player running SB + sicem + longbow who only needs to press 3 buttons inorder to deliver an unblockable rapid fire from 1,800 range capable of dealing anywhere between 15k-30k depending on how glassy they are. > > > > > > > > > > No Im not talking about glass beast. Glass beast can hit auto attacks for 17k and winters bite for 35k (google it im not making this up). That is overkill. Nobody runs that except for meme value. (the fact that going full glass on SB can give us these numbers is still insanely broken). Whats far more frustrating are SB longbows who build a bit of surivabilty, and can still deal 6k auto attacks with a 20k rapid fire. The amount of damage modifies soul beast gets is broken. > > > > > > > > > > An easy fix would be to change sicem to "your pets skills do 40% more damage". This way core rangers pets would still deal 40% more damage while the effect is active. But longbow soul beasts won't be able to abuse the 40% instant damage modifier to turn their longbow into a gau-8 avenger. > > > > > > > > > > My main point though is alot of people think SB + sicem is broken as all hell, and its not because its the only build that counters the more over powered stupid mounts. > > > > > > > > We shouldn't balance around bad players incompetence. > > > > > > Yes. Yes we should. A super easy to play build that can out damage every other class and is vastly easier to play should be balanced accordingly. If this build was extremely hard to play and only 5% of players were capable of using it to the potential we currently see in WvW I'd probably not have too much of an Issue with it. So yes we absolutely should balance around what the average player can do with a class/build. > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually a DE, DD and core Thief can dismount you easily too. Which from my point of view is fair and needed for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > You literally can't in enemy territory and MAYBE in your own and only if the enemy is completely clueless and you would have to blow your whole kit to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this make any sense? Boonbeast is literally more broken than longbow yet you say longbow is better and you'd rather fight a boonbeast? Heck, Holo is better than longbow and Rev is as good. > > > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about glassbeast which folds to anything evading their burst or balanced longbow which is better for dueling but doesn't hit AA's over 5k or what? Because you are making zero sense here, any glass build can oneshot things and they are almost all bad. unless it is a Mesmer or Thief build. > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we see some duels between LB soulbeasts and sword revs, boonbeasts condi mes and holo's? If it is the most broken thing it should win these matchups every time right? Because LB should lose these matchups every time lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > So yeah stop being a necro complaining about rock when you say paper is fine. > > > > > > > > > > Blowing whole kit to do 10K damage? > > > > > > > > > > Reads all the other threads about 25K HP / 3K armor characters being one shot killed. > > > > > > > > > > Someones lying, heh. > > > > > > > > I duel a guardian often and they don't lose more than half their HP, you can't win, only if i go full glass and get lucky, if they dodge i autolose because there is zero followup, hence the glass version is bad and just a noobstomper. > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > My main point though is alot of people think SB + sicem is broken as all hell, and its not because its the only build that counters the more over powered stupid mounts. > > > > > > Alot by what metric? I rarely see them. Most days roaming is just fighting meta holo/spellbreaker/rev/fb/scourge heavy melee stacked groups. The more players they are, the more to the right part of this setup they lean. When these groups have a soulbeast... oh boy. That poor thing. More targeted than a scourge. Sure I encounter solo soulbeasts too, but exceedingly few have the build or the skills to be any threat. And when they are a threat and defeat me, regardless of being a boonbeast or sic em then everytime its *if there was only one more of me here we would have won*. Because thats how WvW works. > > > > > > > > > > > > This doomsaying really remind me of the mirage arguments half a year ago, when according to the forums 99% of roamers was *apparently* running mirages that instakilled you while being immortal, yet ingame you saw one good mirage like... once a month. > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a strong build, with lots of damage no denying that. Maybe it even need nerfs. But just like any strong build in the hands of terrible players, it becomes pretty meh in WvW where half the fights is sustaining outmanned. > > > > > > > > > > I can agree with a lot of what you're saying, but would reiterate that just because builds like holosmith etc are overpowered or more overpowered doesn't mean SB longbow isn't. I think that the ability to one shot players with no setup and no risk is unhealthy for the game. At least with most 1 shot burst builds they need to actually build adrenaline/malice before delivering half of the sort of damage a soul beast can dish out. Furthermore a ranger by default has so much mobility that the longbow builds can usually escape any fight when they choose too. But I certainly wouldn't want to nerf rangers mobility because I think rangers should be mobile, its sort of half the point of a "ranger" to be quick and nimble. But that much mobility with that much damage is broken. So the damage needs to be toned down. > > > > > > > > > > Years ago when the game was more balanced this was the only build that could reliably 1 shot without setup: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tradeoff was that you needed to be on top of the target, and use pretty much every cool down to deliver the burst, which could be negated by a block, as unlike soul beast its burst was block able. If you failed to kill the target you had no condi clears, no mobility, no stealth, no blocks and no invulns. You were dead. Now a soul beast has every single one of those tools i just mentioned. On top of being able to deliver its full burst at 1,800 range. > > > > > > > > > > Something needs to be done about it, i sorry but I just can't understand how the existence of that build is in anyway good for the game. > > > > > > > > Balance is relative, there isn't more broken or less broken, there is a standard that is set awhich is balanced around, the problem is this whole game is broken, this game uses the "ifeverything is broken nothing is" philosophy for balance which i myself don't like either, but isn't unfair. Also, you don't have to build jack, pop signet and full adrenaline. Thief doesn't have to build malice, you just pop mark and 2 signets proceed to backstab, mesmer blows 7 cds but doesn't require setup. > > > > > > > > But yeah what setup did i need here again? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is with the wrong heal skill, you'd normally be able to do it 3 times in a row, not 2. > > > > > > > > Like jeez this comment of yours shows you know nothing about glass builds, they all don't require setup, just cds. All of them are also outclassed by balanced and bunker builds too. > > > > > > Hey if the only way for Soulbeast to output its damage would be for it to be on top of its target like the gimmick zerker in you're video I think nobody would have a problem with soulbeast. Also you actually had to get into combat to build that adrenaline and not press 3 button outside of combat, so yea still setup because you were in combat. The fact that Soulbeast need not enter combat before delivering its burst is probably one of the main issues with it. > > > But who knows, maybe I've missed the 20 threads calling out berserker warrior for being broken or something. > > > > We absolutely shouldn't that makes zero sense, have you ever played any dedicated PvP game? You don't balance around bad players incompetence, you balance about something being played optimally without any skill floor requirments takes into account, it is all about the ceiling. > > > > Just because the average player in this game isn't good doesn't mean we should balance around them, that is 100% an L2P issue. > > > > Also i literally had to just pop a signet to fill my adrenaline bar, do you even know how warrior works? Also what kind of excuse is that? SB has to get into combat too for their burst, this whole argument makes no sense, literally every build needs to get into combat to get their burst, that isn't setup that is just engaging. > > > > Warrior offers many things ranger doesn't in return for the range, survivability-wise. > > > > Like i said before, the only reason poeple complain is because the longbow can dismount them, unlike the berserker which can't even reach their mount. These poeple don't give a kitten about actual 1v1/roaming balance and just care about being shot down while on their way farming karma. > > > > Can you show me you beating a GOOD holosmith on longbow soulbeast? I really want to see it, or a good sword rev, or a condi mes, or a waver, because the burst is so OP amirite, it's not like you will invul a glassbeast burst and then oneshot them or condibomb them rite. > > > > Why do good duelers never have problems with these SB's? It is a big L2P issue of getting shot down from your mount while trying to join the mindless blob, i see so many reapers for example and they are either a free kill or unkillable with the LOS, no inbetween, big L2P issues here, nobody i know has trouble comprehending a rapid fire being shot at you, i just use weaver evade water 2 defensive rotation try to land a condi bomb etc etc. > > > > Just tired of bads complaining when there is way better out there but they don't care because a holo isn't going to shoot you off your mount, just because you can avoid most builds because of heavilly unbalanced mechanics right now doesn't mean they aren't out there. > > > > I've made my arguments, I don't care that some builds/players can beat longbow soulbeasts 1v1. The fact that they cant output so much damage with such little risk is broken, but we can agree to disagree. Although I take some comfort in the fact that you are in the minority and I think we can both agree that Soulbeast longbows damage is going to be nerfed regardless on what you and I say about it. It does matter, that's how balance works. Like i said, it isn't objectively overtuned when compared in a relative way to other roaming builds. I mean if you refuse to L2P don't blame the game. The reason i am in the minority is because the amount of bads in this game is through the roof compared to any other game i play. Take your glassbeast to south sentry and duel some poeple, there is your proof. There was a core ranger there just fucking up elite specs, purely by being one of the best rangers in the game, full berserker but barely took any damage, the skillgap is so high in this game and SB is just good at killing noobs, so just L2P if you care that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steki.1478 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually a DE, DD and core Thief can dismount you easily too. Which from my point of view is fair and needed for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You literally can't in enemy territory and MAYBE in your own and only if the enemy is completely clueless and you would have to blow your whole kit to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this make any sense? Boonbeast is literally more broken than longbow yet you say longbow is better and you'd rather fight a boonbeast? Heck, Holo is better than longbow and Rev is as good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about glassbeast which folds to anything evading their burst or balanced longbow which is better for dueling but doesn't hit AA's over 5k or what? Because you are making zero sense here, any glass build can oneshot things and they are almost all bad. unless it is a Mesmer or Thief build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we see some duels between LB soulbeasts and sword revs, boonbeasts condi mes and holo's? If it is the most broken thing it should win these matchups every time right? Because LB should lose these matchups every time lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So yeah stop being a necro complaining about rock when you say paper is fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I wouldn't say any of those classes are fine. My gripe is that If a terrible player runs one of those builds, they aren't very dangerous. Sure if a decent player runs them its pretty broken thats true. But I would still rather face one of those builds over a SB longbow simply because a terrible player running SB + Sicem + longbow is one of the most dangerous things in WvW at the moment. They can press 3 buttons and deal upwards of 25k of damage without any setup or thought. No matter how bad they are those 3 buttons force any player to drop very expensive cool downs to survive. It requires 100% no thought or ability whatsoever. Im not saying the other builds are extremely hard to play mind you, but I am saying that SB longbow is so mindbogglingly easy that a player who has never played WvW before can be told "hey press these 3 buttons" and they become more dangerous than 90% of players on the field. Because they can output a ridiculous amount of damage with absolutely no setup from 1,800 range. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't balance a game solely around 1v1's anyway. SB longbow is far far to good at its job. Killing enemies in 0.5 seconds from 1,800 range. Its the most overpowered broken thing in this game at the moment. I'd rather die to an overpowered holosmith or boonbeast who at least has to have some semblance of what they are doing over a player running SB + sicem + longbow who only needs to press 3 buttons inorder to deliver an unblockable rapid fire from 1,800 range capable of dealing anywhere between 15k-30k depending on how glassy they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > No Im not talking about glass beast. Glass beast can hit auto attacks for 17k and winters bite for 35k (google it im not making this up). That is overkill. Nobody runs that except for meme value. (the fact that going full glass on SB can give us these numbers is still insanely broken). Whats far more frustrating are SB longbows who build a bit of surivabilty, and can still deal 6k auto attacks with a 20k rapid fire. The amount of damage modifies soul beast gets is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > An easy fix would be to change sicem to "your pets skills do 40% more damage". This way core rangers pets would still deal 40% more damage while the effect is active. But longbow soul beasts won't be able to abuse the 40% instant damage modifier to turn their longbow into a gau-8 avenger. > > > > > > > > > > > > My main point though is alot of people think SB + sicem is broken as all hell, and its not because its the only build that counters the more over powered stupid mounts. > > > > > > > > > > We shouldn't balance around bad players incompetence. > > > > > > > > Yes. Yes we should. A super easy to play build that can out damage every other class and is vastly easier to play should be balanced accordingly. If this build was extremely hard to play and only 5% of players were capable of using it to the potential we currently see in WvW I'd probably not have too much of an Issue with it. So yes we absolutely should balance around what the average player can do with a class/build. > > > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually a DE, DD and core Thief can dismount you easily too. Which from my point of view is fair and needed for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You literally can't in enemy territory and MAYBE in your own and only if the enemy is completely clueless and you would have to blow your whole kit to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this make any sense? Boonbeast is literally more broken than longbow yet you say longbow is better and you'd rather fight a boonbeast? Heck, Holo is better than longbow and Rev is as good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about glassbeast which folds to anything evading their burst or balanced longbow which is better for dueling but doesn't hit AA's over 5k or what? Because you are making zero sense here, any glass build can oneshot things and they are almost all bad. unless it is a Mesmer or Thief build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we see some duels between LB soulbeasts and sword revs, boonbeasts condi mes and holo's? If it is the most broken thing it should win these matchups every time right? Because LB should lose these matchups every time lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So yeah stop being a necro complaining about rock when you say paper is fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > Blowing whole kit to do 10K damage? > > > > > > > > > > > > Reads all the other threads about 25K HP / 3K armor characters being one shot killed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Someones lying, heh. > > > > > > > > > > I duel a guardian often and they don't lose more than half their HP, you can't win, only if i go full glass and get lucky, if they dodge i autolose because there is zero followup, hence the glass version is bad and just a noobstomper. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > > My main point though is alot of people think SB + sicem is broken as all hell, and its not because its the only build that counters the more over powered stupid mounts. > > > > > > > Alot by what metric? I rarely see them. Most days roaming is just fighting meta holo/spellbreaker/rev/fb/scourge heavy melee stacked groups. The more players they are, the more to the right part of this setup they lean. When these groups have a soulbeast... oh boy. That poor thing. More targeted than a scourge. Sure I encounter solo soulbeasts too, but exceedingly few have the build or the skills to be any threat. And when they are a threat and defeat me, regardless of being a boonbeast or sic em then everytime its *if there was only one more of me here we would have won*. Because thats how WvW works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This doomsaying really remind me of the mirage arguments half a year ago, when according to the forums 99% of roamers was *apparently* running mirages that instakilled you while being immortal, yet ingame you saw one good mirage like... once a month. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a strong build, with lots of damage no denying that. Maybe it even need nerfs. But just like any strong build in the hands of terrible players, it becomes pretty meh in WvW where half the fights is sustaining outmanned. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can agree with a lot of what you're saying, but would reiterate that just because builds like holosmith etc are overpowered or more overpowered doesn't mean SB longbow isn't. I think that the ability to one shot players with no setup and no risk is unhealthy for the game. At least with most 1 shot burst builds they need to actually build adrenaline/malice before delivering half of the sort of damage a soul beast can dish out. Furthermore a ranger by default has so much mobility that the longbow builds can usually escape any fight when they choose too. But I certainly wouldn't want to nerf rangers mobility because I think rangers should be mobile, its sort of half the point of a "ranger" to be quick and nimble. But that much mobility with that much damage is broken. So the damage needs to be toned down. > > > > > > > > > > > > Years ago when the game was more balanced this was the only build that could reliably 1 shot without setup: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tradeoff was that you needed to be on top of the target, and use pretty much every cool down to deliver the burst, which could be negated by a block, as unlike soul beast its burst was block able. If you failed to kill the target you had no condi clears, no mobility, no stealth, no blocks and no invulns. You were dead. Now a soul beast has every single one of those tools i just mentioned. On top of being able to deliver its full burst at 1,800 range. > > > > > > > > > > > > Something needs to be done about it, i sorry but I just can't understand how the existence of that build is in anyway good for the game. > > > > > > > > > > Balance is relative, there isn't more broken or less broken, there is a standard that is set awhich is balanced around, the problem is this whole game is broken, this game uses the "ifeverything is broken nothing is" philosophy for balance which i myself don't like either, but isn't unfair. Also, you don't have to build jack, pop signet and full adrenaline. Thief doesn't have to build malice, you just pop mark and 2 signets proceed to backstab, mesmer blows 7 cds but doesn't require setup. > > > > > > > > > > But yeah what setup did i need here again? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is with the wrong heal skill, you'd normally be able to do it 3 times in a row, not 2. > > > > > > > > > > Like jeez this comment of yours shows you know nothing about glass builds, they all don't require setup, just cds. All of them are also outclassed by balanced and bunker builds too. > > > > > > > > Hey if the only way for Soulbeast to output its damage would be for it to be on top of its target like the gimmick zerker in you're video I think nobody would have a problem with soulbeast. Also you actually had to get into combat to build that adrenaline and not press 3 button outside of combat, so yea still setup because you were in combat. The fact that Soulbeast need not enter combat before delivering its burst is probably one of the main issues with it. > > > > But who knows, maybe I've missed the 20 threads calling out berserker warrior for being broken or something. > > > > > > We absolutely shouldn't that makes zero sense, have you ever played any dedicated PvP game? You don't balance around bad players incompetence, you balance about something being played optimally without any skill floor requirments takes into account, it is all about the ceiling. > > > > > > Just because the average player in this game isn't good doesn't mean we should balance around them, that is 100% an L2P issue. > > > > > > Also i literally had to just pop a signet to fill my adrenaline bar, do you even know how warrior works? Also what kind of excuse is that? SB has to get into combat too for their burst, this whole argument makes no sense, literally every build needs to get into combat to get their burst, that isn't setup that is just engaging. > > > > > > Warrior offers many things ranger doesn't in return for the range, survivability-wise. > > > > > > Like i said before, the only reason poeple complain is because the longbow can dismount them, unlike the berserker which can't even reach their mount. These poeple don't give a kitten about actual 1v1/roaming balance and just care about being shot down while on their way farming karma. > > > > > > Can you show me you beating a GOOD holosmith on longbow soulbeast? I really want to see it, or a good sword rev, or a condi mes, or a waver, because the burst is so OP amirite, it's not like you will invul a glassbeast burst and then oneshot them or condibomb them rite. > > > > > > Why do good duelers never have problems with these SB's? It is a big L2P issue of getting shot down from your mount while trying to join the mindless blob, i see so many reapers for example and they are either a free kill or unkillable with the LOS, no inbetween, big L2P issues here, nobody i know has trouble comprehending a rapid fire being shot at you, i just use weaver evade water 2 defensive rotation try to land a condi bomb etc etc. > > > > > > Just tired of bads complaining when there is way better out there but they don't care because a holo isn't going to shoot you off your mount, just because you can avoid most builds because of heavilly unbalanced mechanics right now doesn't mean they aren't out there. > > > > > > > I've made my arguments, I don't care that some builds/players can beat longbow soulbeasts 1v1. The fact that they cant output so much damage with such little risk is broken, but we can agree to disagree. Although I take some comfort in the fact that you are in the minority and I think we can both agree that Soulbeast longbows damage is going to be nerfed regardless on what you and I say about it. > > It does matter, that's how balance works. Like i said, it isn't objectively overtuned when compared in a relative way to other roaming builds. > > I mean if you refuse to L2P don't blame the game. > > The reason i am in the minority is because the amount of bads in this game is through the roof compared to any other game i play. > > Take your glassbeast to south sentry and duel some poeple, there is your proof. There was a core ranger there just kitten up elite specs, purely by being one of the best rangers in the game, full berserker but barely took any damage, the skillgap is so high in this game and SB is just good at killing noobs, so just L2P if you care that much. Why do you keep comparing cheese builds with dueling ones? With that logic I can say that holo is underpowered because it's bad in blobs and you should l2p if you're struggling against it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted July 7, 2019 Share Posted July 7, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually a DE, DD and core Thief can dismount you easily too. Which from my point of view is fair and needed for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You literally can't in enemy territory and MAYBE in your own and only if the enemy is completely clueless and you would have to blow your whole kit to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this make any sense? Boonbeast is literally more broken than longbow yet you say longbow is better and you'd rather fight a boonbeast? Heck, Holo is better than longbow and Rev is as good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about glassbeast which folds to anything evading their burst or balanced longbow which is better for dueling but doesn't hit AA's over 5k or what? Because you are making zero sense here, any glass build can oneshot things and they are almost all bad. unless it is a Mesmer or Thief build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we see some duels between LB soulbeasts and sword revs, boonbeasts condi mes and holo's? If it is the most broken thing it should win these matchups every time right? Because LB should lose these matchups every time lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So yeah stop being a necro complaining about rock when you say paper is fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh I wouldn't say any of those classes are fine. My gripe is that If a terrible player runs one of those builds, they aren't very dangerous. Sure if a decent player runs them its pretty broken thats true. But I would still rather face one of those builds over a SB longbow simply because a terrible player running SB + Sicem + longbow is one of the most dangerous things in WvW at the moment. They can press 3 buttons and deal upwards of 25k of damage without any setup or thought. No matter how bad they are those 3 buttons force any player to drop very expensive cool downs to survive. It requires 100% no thought or ability whatsoever. Im not saying the other builds are extremely hard to play mind you, but I am saying that SB longbow is so mindbogglingly easy that a player who has never played WvW before can be told "hey press these 3 buttons" and they become more dangerous than 90% of players on the field. Because they can output a ridiculous amount of damage with absolutely no setup from 1,800 range. > > > > > > > > > > > > You can't balance a game solely around 1v1's anyway. SB longbow is far far to good at its job. Killing enemies in 0.5 seconds from 1,800 range. Its the most overpowered broken thing in this game at the moment. I'd rather die to an overpowered holosmith or boonbeast who at least has to have some semblance of what they are doing over a player running SB + sicem + longbow who only needs to press 3 buttons inorder to deliver an unblockable rapid fire from 1,800 range capable of dealing anywhere between 15k-30k depending on how glassy they are. > > > > > > > > > > > > No Im not talking about glass beast. Glass beast can hit auto attacks for 17k and winters bite for 35k (google it im not making this up). That is overkill. Nobody runs that except for meme value. (the fact that going full glass on SB can give us these numbers is still insanely broken). Whats far more frustrating are SB longbows who build a bit of surivabilty, and can still deal 6k auto attacks with a 20k rapid fire. The amount of damage modifies soul beast gets is broken. > > > > > > > > > > > > An easy fix would be to change sicem to "your pets skills do 40% more damage". This way core rangers pets would still deal 40% more damage while the effect is active. But longbow soul beasts won't be able to abuse the 40% instant damage modifier to turn their longbow into a gau-8 avenger. > > > > > > > > > > > > My main point though is alot of people think SB + sicem is broken as all hell, and its not because its the only build that counters the more over powered stupid mounts. > > > > > > > > > > We shouldn't balance around bad players incompetence. > > > > > > > > Yes. Yes we should. A super easy to play build that can out damage every other class and is vastly easier to play should be balanced accordingly. If this build was extremely hard to play and only 5% of players were capable of using it to the potential we currently see in WvW I'd probably not have too much of an Issue with it. So yes we absolutely should balance around what the average player can do with a class/build. > > > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > @"anduriell.6280" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Actually a DE, DD and core Thief can dismount you easily too. Which from my point of view is fair and needed for the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You literally can't in enemy territory and MAYBE in your own and only if the enemy is completely clueless and you would have to blow your whole kit to do it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > > > @"SoV.5139" said: > > > > > > > > > > They already cut condi down but increased duration. The higher ramp up time took most burst condi builds out of the game. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut power in half and reduce some cooldowns. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Cut healing base values in half, then increase contribution from healing power. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bruiser builds will make their way back into the META. Full on power builds will be alot riskier, but still good for those who put in the time investment, rather than mashing invuln keys then spamming DPS. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Except balanced SB is better than glass SB, heck, Boonbeast is better than either. It is still bunker meta, Boonbeasts/Prot Holo/Bunker Mes/Weaver are gking, they just don't fit the dismounting meta which is why they aren't played, poeple only hate longbow ranger because of the dismounting which is just stupid as mounts are stupidly OP still. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"alain.1659" said: > > > > > > > > > > I would like to share my experience on rangers, as I have played one a really good amount of time. Soulbeast is fine. It is really underpowered in some areas. Druid has becoma "meh" and core ranger is still what it is, an easy prey. What disturbs most of the people is the sic em build. Reworking sic em would solve most of the problem. Sic em definitely needs a good rework. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > About full zerker rangers, the comments are not justified. I had the similar thoughts so I played soulbeast for 2 weeks. It is easy to play but hellishly hard to master. Like all zerker one shot builds, it has its shortcomings. There are many professions that can deal damage from range and instadown their opponents. There are even longer ranges and /or safer professions like thief or mesmer(chrono especially). Revenants combo can easily down aynone if they are not fast enough. You can easily dismount people with rev, dh or thief. There are several skills that can nullify projectiles or reflect them. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > If you are having issues vs soulbeast, try roaming with it for 2 weeks. At first, you will feel like " kitten this is easy". Then you will face a skilled opponent that will send your tushie to oblivion. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Read my response above, Sicc Em isn't even used in the best 1v1 build, it is just salty poeple getting shot off their mount. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This just isn't true though, many of us hate mounts. I personally If i had my way would see them removed from the game. But like I've said in many previous posts, simply turning them into out of combat swiftness with 2k hp and 1 dodge would be amazing. Great for getting from point A to point B, but terrible for giving an edge in combat. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > That being said, SB longbow + sicem is currently the most broken low risk/skill high reward thing in the game. I would rather fight a boonbeast SB than one of those abominations running long bow. Dead eye was the only other class that could output so much ranged damage, and It was rightly nerfed. Now its Souldbeasts and their longbows to be next. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How does this make any sense? Boonbeast is literally more broken than longbow yet you say longbow is better and you'd rather fight a boonbeast? Heck, Holo is better than longbow and Rev is as good. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You are talking about glassbeast which folds to anything evading their burst or balanced longbow which is better for dueling but doesn't hit AA's over 5k or what? Because you are making zero sense here, any glass build can oneshot things and they are almost all bad. unless it is a Mesmer or Thief build. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Can we see some duels between LB soulbeasts and sword revs, boonbeasts condi mes and holo's? If it is the most broken thing it should win these matchups every time right? Because LB should lose these matchups every time lol. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > So yeah stop being a necro complaining about rock when you say paper is fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > Blowing whole kit to do 10K damage? > > > > > > > > > > > > Reads all the other threads about 25K HP / 3K armor characters being one shot killed. > > > > > > > > > > > > Someones lying, heh. > > > > > > > > > > I duel a guardian often and they don't lose more than half their HP, you can't win, only if i go full glass and get lucky, if they dodge i autolose because there is zero followup, hence the glass version is bad and just a noobstomper. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > @"Dawdler.8521" said: > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > > My main point though is alot of people think SB + sicem is broken as all hell, and its not because its the only build that counters the more over powered stupid mounts. > > > > > > > Alot by what metric? I rarely see them. Most days roaming is just fighting meta holo/spellbreaker/rev/fb/scourge heavy melee stacked groups. The more players they are, the more to the right part of this setup they lean. When these groups have a soulbeast... oh boy. That poor thing. More targeted than a scourge. Sure I encounter solo soulbeasts too, but exceedingly few have the build or the skills to be any threat. And when they are a threat and defeat me, regardless of being a boonbeast or sic em then everytime its *if there was only one more of me here we would have won*. Because thats how WvW works. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This doomsaying really remind me of the mirage arguments half a year ago, when according to the forums 99% of roamers was *apparently* running mirages that instakilled you while being immortal, yet ingame you saw one good mirage like... once a month. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Its a strong build, with lots of damage no denying that. Maybe it even need nerfs. But just like any strong build in the hands of terrible players, it becomes pretty meh in WvW where half the fights is sustaining outmanned. > > > > > > > > > > > > I can agree with a lot of what you're saying, but would reiterate that just because builds like holosmith etc are overpowered or more overpowered doesn't mean SB longbow isn't. I think that the ability to one shot players with no setup and no risk is unhealthy for the game. At least with most 1 shot burst builds they need to actually build adrenaline/malice before delivering half of the sort of damage a soul beast can dish out. Furthermore a ranger by default has so much mobility that the longbow builds can usually escape any fight when they choose too. But I certainly wouldn't want to nerf rangers mobility because I think rangers should be mobile, its sort of half the point of a "ranger" to be quick and nimble. But that much mobility with that much damage is broken. So the damage needs to be toned down. > > > > > > > > > > > > Years ago when the game was more balanced this was the only build that could reliably 1 shot without setup: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The tradeoff was that you needed to be on top of the target, and use pretty much every cool down to deliver the burst, which could be negated by a block, as unlike soul beast its burst was block able. If you failed to kill the target you had no condi clears, no mobility, no stealth, no blocks and no invulns. You were dead. Now a soul beast has every single one of those tools i just mentioned. On top of being able to deliver its full burst at 1,800 range. > > > > > > > > > > > > Something needs to be done about it, i sorry but I just can't understand how the existence of that build is in anyway good for the game. > > > > > > > > > > Balance is relative, there isn't more broken or less broken, there is a standard that is set awhich is balanced around, the problem is this whole game is broken, this game uses the "ifeverything is broken nothing is" philosophy for balance which i myself don't like either, but isn't unfair. Also, you don't have to build jack, pop signet and full adrenaline. Thief doesn't have to build malice, you just pop mark and 2 signets proceed to backstab, mesmer blows 7 cds but doesn't require setup. > > > > > > > > > > But yeah what setup did i need here again? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > This is with the wrong heal skill, you'd normally be able to do it 3 times in a row, not 2. > > > > > > > > > > Like jeez this comment of yours shows you know nothing about glass builds, they all don't require setup, just cds. All of them are also outclassed by balanced and bunker builds too. > > > > > > > > Hey if the only way for Soulbeast to output its damage would be for it to be on top of its target like the gimmick zerker in you're video I think nobody would have a problem with soulbeast. Also you actually had to get into combat to build that adrenaline and not press 3 button outside of combat, so yea still setup because you were in combat. The fact that Soulbeast need not enter combat before delivering its burst is probably one of the main issues with it. > > > > But who knows, maybe I've missed the 20 threads calling out berserker warrior for being broken or something. > > > > > > We absolutely shouldn't that makes zero sense, have you ever played any dedicated PvP game? You don't balance around bad players incompetence, you balance about something being played optimally without any skill floor requirments takes into account, it is all about the ceiling. > > > > > > Just because the average player in this game isn't good doesn't mean we should balance around them, that is 100% an L2P issue. > > > > > > Also i literally had to just pop a signet to fill my adrenaline bar, do you even know how warrior works? Also what kind of excuse is that? SB has to get into combat too for their burst, this whole argument makes no sense, literally every build needs to get into combat to get their burst, that isn't setup that is just engaging. > > > > > > Warrior offers many things ranger doesn't in return for the range, survivability-wise. > > > > > > Like i said before, the only reason poeple complain is because the longbow can dismount them, unlike the berserker which can't even reach their mount. These poeple don't give a kitten about actual 1v1/roaming balance and just care about being shot down while on their way farming karma. > > > > > > Can you show me you beating a GOOD holosmith on longbow soulbeast? I really want to see it, or a good sword rev, or a condi mes, or a waver, because the burst is so OP amirite, it's not like you will invul a glassbeast burst and then oneshot them or condibomb them rite. > > > > > > Why do good duelers never have problems with these SB's? It is a big L2P issue of getting shot down from your mount while trying to join the mindless blob, i see so many reapers for example and they are either a free kill or unkillable with the LOS, no inbetween, big L2P issues here, nobody i know has trouble comprehending a rapid fire being shot at you, i just use weaver evade water 2 defensive rotation try to land a condi bomb etc etc. > > > > > > Just tired of bads complaining when there is way better out there but they don't care because a holo isn't going to shoot you off your mount, just because you can avoid most builds because of heavilly unbalanced mechanics right now doesn't mean they aren't out there. > > > > > > > I've made my arguments, I don't care that some builds/players can beat longbow soulbeasts 1v1. The fact that they cant output so much damage with such little risk is broken, but we can agree to disagree. Although I take some comfort in the fact that you are in the minority and I think we can both agree that Soulbeast longbows damage is going to be nerfed regardless on what you and I say about it. > > It does matter, that's how balance works. Like i said, it isn't objectively overtuned when compared in a relative way to other roaming builds. > > I mean if you refuse to L2P don't blame the game. > > The reason i am in the minority is because the amount of bads in this game is through the roof compared to any other game i play. > > Take your glassbeast to south sentry and duel some poeple, there is your proof. There was a core ranger there just kitten up elite specs, purely by being one of the best rangers in the game, full berserker but barely took any damage, the skillgap is so high in this game and SB is just good at killing noobs, so just L2P if you care that much. Once again everything is about 1v1's. Game isn't balanced soley around 1v1's. I think glassbows are wayyy too good at their role, killing people in less than a second, you think its fine because in an honorable duel they can be beaten. Agree to disagree. I'm not gonna quit the game over this build, but I will continue to criticise it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > Why do you keep comparing cheese builds with dueling ones? With that logic I can say that holo is underpowered because it's bad in blobs and you should l2p if you're struggling against it. Because cheese builds aren't actually good, they are cheese, hence no need to balance around poeple that won't L2P being cheesed. > @"Doug.4930" said: > Once again everything is about 1v1's. Game isn't balanced soley around 1v1's. I think glassbows are wayyy too good at their role, killing people in less than a second, you think its fine because in an honorable duel they can be beaten. Agree to disagree. I'm not gonna quit the game over this build, but I will continue to criticise it. Then where are you talking? 1v2? Should have lost that anyways, blobs? They suck there, what are you even talking about here? It is about objective performance in combat, where relatively it doesn't objectively overperform compared to other builds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectrito.8513 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"steki.1478" said: > > Why do you keep comparing cheese builds with dueling ones? With that logic I can say that holo is underpowered because it's bad in blobs and you should l2p if you're struggling against it. > > Because cheese builds aren't actually good, they are cheese, hence no need to balance around poeple that won't L2P being cheesed. > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > Once again everything is about 1v1's. Game isn't balanced soley around 1v1's. I think glassbows are wayyy too good at their role, killing people in less than a second, you think its fine because in an honorable duel they can be beaten. Agree to disagree. I'm not gonna quit the game over this build, but I will continue to criticise it. > > Then where are you talking? 1v2? Should have lost that anyways, blobs? They suck there, what are you even talking about here? It is about objective performance in combat, where relatively it doesn't objectively overperform compared to other builds. Cant dodge in 0.5 sec with protection? clearly l2p issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kovu.7560 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > Why do you keep comparing cheese builds with dueling ones? With that logic I can say that holo is underpowered because it's bad in blobs and you should l2p if you're struggling against it. > > > > Because cheese builds aren't actually good, they are cheese, hence no need to balance around poeple that won't L2P being cheesed. > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > Once again everything is about 1v1's. Game isn't balanced soley around 1v1's. I think glassbows are wayyy too good at their role, killing people in less than a second, you think its fine because in an honorable duel they can be beaten. Agree to disagree. I'm not gonna quit the game over this build, but I will continue to criticise it. > > > > Then where are you talking? 1v2? Should have lost that anyways, blobs? They suck there, what are you even talking about here? It is about objective performance in combat, where relatively it doesn't objectively overperform compared to other builds. > > Cant dodge in 0.5 sec with protection? clearly l2p issue > > > The player in the video, clearly not invested in any toughness, was down to ~10k health when the volley started, though they did have both dodges available. Moreover, that ranger clearly ran out and stood there for a couple of seconds before even firing. Not saying the damage wasn't too high, just that the player in question needed to improve their peripheral awareness. (Keep buffs were also a thing, based on the targeted ele.) Not sure why they were expecting an honest duel next to the gate of SMC. ~ Kovu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > Why do you keep comparing cheese builds with dueling ones? With that logic I can say that holo is underpowered because it's bad in blobs and you should l2p if you're struggling against it. > > > > Because cheese builds aren't actually good, they are cheese, hence no need to balance around poeple that won't L2P being cheesed. > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > Once again everything is about 1v1's. Game isn't balanced soley around 1v1's. I think glassbows are wayyy too good at their role, killing people in less than a second, you think its fine because in an honorable duel they can be beaten. Agree to disagree. I'm not gonna quit the game over this build, but I will continue to criticise it. > > > > Then where are you talking? 1v2? Should have lost that anyways, blobs? They suck there, what are you even talking about here? It is about objective performance in combat, where relatively it doesn't objectively overperform compared to other builds. > > Cant dodge in 0.5 sec with protection? clearly l2p issue > > > Why didn't you use the evade utility? Do you really use 8 for it or is it another button? Also why didn't you use water stance to heal once you disengaged? Also why aren't you using healing signet? You where also attacking someone at keep gate? Why? I literally linked a video with me on war killing someone as fast too, and mesmer, holo, thief and ele can do the same. But yeah do you really have your evade on 8 or is this a joke? Why is it that my friend whom plays condi ele can easilly kill longbow rangers? Ele has so many evades and sustain that they can just put down condi pressure after the initial burst, rangers die to condis. Also that was 1.5s, not 0.5 and you were at 10k HP, if a deadeye came out and backstabbed you for 21k it would be the exact same, or a mesmer spike, or anything else really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectrito.8513 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > Why do you keep comparing cheese builds with dueling ones? With that logic I can say that holo is underpowered because it's bad in blobs and you should l2p if you're struggling against it. > > > > > > Because cheese builds aren't actually good, they are cheese, hence no need to balance around poeple that won't L2P being cheesed. > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > Once again everything is about 1v1's. Game isn't balanced soley around 1v1's. I think glassbows are wayyy too good at their role, killing people in less than a second, you think its fine because in an honorable duel they can be beaten. Agree to disagree. I'm not gonna quit the game over this build, but I will continue to criticise it. > > > > > > Then where are you talking? 1v2? Should have lost that anyways, blobs? They suck there, what are you even talking about here? It is about objective performance in combat, where relatively it doesn't objectively overperform compared to other builds. > > > > Cant dodge in 0.5 sec with protection? clearly l2p issue > > > > > > > > The player in the video, clearly not invested in any toughness, was down to ~10k health when the volley started, though they did have both dodges available. Moreover, that ranger clearly ran out and stood there for a couple of seconds before even firing. Not saying the damage wasn't too high, just that the player in question needed to improve their peripheral awareness. (Keep buffs were also a thing, based on the targeted ele.) Not sure why they were expecting an honest duel next to the gate of SMC. > > ~ Kovu I had protection, how much toughness i need to get a 33% reduction ? I wasnt at 10k health, i used the healing skill which heals for 6.5k on earth attunement i was almost at full health (16,805) you'll notice my health going up and immediately going down as he hits me. His first arrow hits me when my attunements where on 1.9 secs cd left, i died literally 0.5 sec later the first hit on a dodge animation. @"Anput.4620" I'm almost sure you're trolling but i'll answer you anyway > @"Anput.4620" said: > Why didn't you use the evade utility? Do you really use 8 for it or is it another button? Also why didn't you use water stance to heal once you disengaged? Also why aren't you using healing signet? You where also attacking someone at keep gate? Why? 1 - because i had a full endurance bar 2- no 3- water attunement without healing power is useless for healing purposes 4- cuz it's trash 5- irrelevant > > I literally linked a video with me on war killing someone as fast too, and mesmer, holo, thief and ele can do the same. > > But yeah do you really have your evade on 8 or is this a joke? Why is it that my friend whom plays condi ele can easilly kill longbow rangers? Ele has so many evades and sustain that they can just put down condi pressure after the initial burst, rangers die to condis. > > Also that was 1.5s, not 0.5 and you were at 10k HP, if a deadeye came out and backstabbed you for 21k it would be the exact same, or a mesmer spike, or anything else really. It was 0.5s, first arrow hits when my attunements were on 1.9 cd and i die at 1.3, 0.6s precisely. Whats next ? predicting the future ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celsith.2753 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 Im the ranger in that linked vid. I stood there, clearly visible, you had plenty of time to just.. leave. You also play glassy enough to burst someone down just as quickly. I'm not saying SLB is balanced at all, but another player on a build that can kill just as fast is laughable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > Why do you keep comparing cheese builds with dueling ones? With that logic I can say that holo is underpowered because it's bad in blobs and you should l2p if you're struggling against it. > > > > > > > > Because cheese builds aren't actually good, they are cheese, hence no need to balance around poeple that won't L2P being cheesed. > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > Once again everything is about 1v1's. Game isn't balanced soley around 1v1's. I think glassbows are wayyy too good at their role, killing people in less than a second, you think its fine because in an honorable duel they can be beaten. Agree to disagree. I'm not gonna quit the game over this build, but I will continue to criticise it. > > > > > > > > Then where are you talking? 1v2? Should have lost that anyways, blobs? They suck there, what are you even talking about here? It is about objective performance in combat, where relatively it doesn't objectively overperform compared to other builds. > > > > > > Cant dodge in 0.5 sec with protection? clearly l2p issue > > > > > > > > > > > > > The player in the video, clearly not invested in any toughness, was down to ~10k health when the volley started, though they did have both dodges available. Moreover, that ranger clearly ran out and stood there for a couple of seconds before even firing. Not saying the damage wasn't too high, just that the player in question needed to improve their peripheral awareness. (Keep buffs were also a thing, based on the targeted ele.) Not sure why they were expecting an honest duel next to the gate of SMC. > > > > ~ Kovu > > I had protection, how much toughness i need to get a 33% reduction ? > I wasnt at 10k health, i used the healing skill which heals for 6.5k on earth attunement i was almost at full health (16,805) you'll notice my health going up and immediately going down as he hits me. > His first arrow hits me when my attunements where on 1.9 secs cd left, i died literally 0.5 sec later the first hit on a dodge animation. > > @"Anput.4620" > I'm almost sure you're trolling but i'll answer you anyway > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > Why didn't you use the evade utility? Do you really use 8 for it or is it another button? Also why didn't you use water stance to heal once you disengaged? Also why aren't you using healing signet? You where also attacking someone at keep gate? Why? > 1 - because i had a full endurance bar > 2- no > 3- water attunement without healing power is useless for healing purposes > 4- cuz it's trash > 5- irrelevant > > > > I literally linked a video with me on war killing someone as fast too, and mesmer, holo, thief and ele can do the same. > > > > But yeah do you really have your evade on 8 or is this a joke? Why is it that my friend whom plays condi ele can easilly kill longbow rangers? Ele has so many evades and sustain that they can just put down condi pressure after the initial burst, rangers die to condis. > > > > > Also that was 1.5s, not 0.5 and you were at 10k HP, if a deadeye came out and backstabbed you for 21k it would be the exact same, or a mesmer spike, or anything else really. > It was 0.5s, first arrow hits when my attunements were on 1.9 cd and i die at 1.3, 0.6s precisely. > > Whats next ? predicting the future ? So if you had full endurance bar and that is the reason you didn't use your evade, why didn't you dodge? Also why is your evade literally bound to 8? Heal signet is very good actually, you play roaming ele without healing power? And yes, it is not irrelevant, play stupid games win stupid prizes. It is 1s atleast, look at the video, you get hit atr 12s, die somewhere just over 13s, also that ranger literally walked up for like 4 seconds before they did anything giving you enough time to respond. But yeah 1v1 my weaver or my friends weaver with your soulbeast and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > Why are Scourge and Firebrand allowed to be the 2 best WvW professions since PoF without any complaints? Remember when you said this? > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > Why do you keep comparing cheese builds with dueling ones? With that logic I can say that holo is underpowered because it's bad in blobs and you should l2p if you're struggling against it. > > > > > > > > > > Because cheese builds aren't actually good, they are cheese, hence no need to balance around poeple that won't L2P being cheesed. > > > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > Once again everything is about 1v1's. Game isn't balanced soley around 1v1's. I think glassbows are wayyy too good at their role, killing people in less than a second, you think its fine because in an honorable duel they can be beaten. Agree to disagree. I'm not gonna quit the game over this build, but I will continue to criticise it. > > > > > > > > > > Then where are you talking? 1v2? Should have lost that anyways, blobs? They suck there, what are you even talking about here? It is about objective performance in combat, where relatively it doesn't objectively overperform compared to other builds. > > > > > > > > Cant dodge in 0.5 sec with protection? clearly l2p issue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The player in the video, clearly not invested in any toughness, was down to ~10k health when the volley started, though they did have both dodges available. Moreover, that ranger clearly ran out and stood there for a couple of seconds before even firing. Not saying the damage wasn't too high, just that the player in question needed to improve their peripheral awareness. (Keep buffs were also a thing, based on the targeted ele.) Not sure why they were expecting an honest duel next to the gate of SMC. > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > I had protection, how much toughness i need to get a 33% reduction ? > > I wasnt at 10k health, i used the healing skill which heals for 6.5k on earth attunement i was almost at full health (16,805) you'll notice my health going up and immediately going down as he hits me. > > His first arrow hits me when my attunements where on 1.9 secs cd left, i died literally 0.5 sec later the first hit on a dodge animation. > > > > @"Anput.4620" > > I'm almost sure you're trolling but i'll answer you anyway > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > Why didn't you use the evade utility? Do you really use 8 for it or is it another button? Also why didn't you use water stance to heal once you disengaged? Also why aren't you using healing signet? You where also attacking someone at keep gate? Why? > > 1 - because i had a full endurance bar > > 2- no > > 3- water attunement without healing power is useless for healing purposes > > 4- cuz it's trash > > 5- irrelevant > > > > > > I literally linked a video with me on war killing someone as fast too, and mesmer, holo, thief and ele can do the same. > > > > > > But yeah do you really have your evade on 8 or is this a joke? Why is it that my friend whom plays condi ele can easilly kill longbow rangers? Ele has so many evades and sustain that they can just put down condi pressure after the initial burst, rangers die to condis. > > > > > > > > Also that was 1.5s, not 0.5 and you were at 10k HP, if a deadeye came out and backstabbed you for 21k it would be the exact same, or a mesmer spike, or anything else really. > > It was 0.5s, first arrow hits when my attunements were on 1.9 cd and i die at 1.3, 0.6s precisely. > > > > Whats next ? predicting the future ? > > But yeah 1v1 my weaver or my friends weaver with your soulbeast and see what happens. Yet now you say this? Its funny but couldn't I use your own logic to debate that Scourge and Firebrand are balanced because they can be beaten in 1v1's by certain classes? Its almost as If balance isn't just based around how well a build can duel, and there may be other factors that need to be taken into account. For the record I agree with you, scourge and firebrand are far too good at their roles and probably need to be toned down. Not because they're god at 1v1's but because they excel far too much in their respective roles which is cleave and boon removal/support and healing respectively. Much like how Soulbeast with sicem is far too good at its role, high burst damage and needs to be toned down. Look if you want to argue that Soulbeast when combined with sicem/longbow/unstoppable union is balanced the way it is, then stop using the fact that some builds can beat it in a duel to debate your point, because even you understand that a build can be overpowered in other ways besides dueling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anput.4620 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 > @"Doug.4930" said: > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > Why are Scourge and Firebrand allowed to be the 2 best WvW professions since PoF without any complaints? > > Remember when you said this? > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > Why do you keep comparing cheese builds with dueling ones? With that logic I can say that holo is underpowered because it's bad in blobs and you should l2p if you're struggling against it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Because cheese builds aren't actually good, they are cheese, hence no need to balance around poeple that won't L2P being cheesed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > Once again everything is about 1v1's. Game isn't balanced soley around 1v1's. I think glassbows are wayyy too good at their role, killing people in less than a second, you think its fine because in an honorable duel they can be beaten. Agree to disagree. I'm not gonna quit the game over this build, but I will continue to criticise it. > > > > > > > > > > > > Then where are you talking? 1v2? Should have lost that anyways, blobs? They suck there, what are you even talking about here? It is about objective performance in combat, where relatively it doesn't objectively overperform compared to other builds. > > > > > > > > > > Cant dodge in 0.5 sec with protection? clearly l2p issue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The player in the video, clearly not invested in any toughness, was down to ~10k health when the volley started, though they did have both dodges available. Moreover, that ranger clearly ran out and stood there for a couple of seconds before even firing. Not saying the damage wasn't too high, just that the player in question needed to improve their peripheral awareness. (Keep buffs were also a thing, based on the targeted ele.) Not sure why they were expecting an honest duel next to the gate of SMC. > > > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > > > I had protection, how much toughness i need to get a 33% reduction ? > > > I wasnt at 10k health, i used the healing skill which heals for 6.5k on earth attunement i was almost at full health (16,805) you'll notice my health going up and immediately going down as he hits me. > > > His first arrow hits me when my attunements where on 1.9 secs cd left, i died literally 0.5 sec later the first hit on a dodge animation. > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" > > > I'm almost sure you're trolling but i'll answer you anyway > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > Why didn't you use the evade utility? Do you really use 8 for it or is it another button? Also why didn't you use water stance to heal once you disengaged? Also why aren't you using healing signet? You where also attacking someone at keep gate? Why? > > > 1 - because i had a full endurance bar > > > 2- no > > > 3- water attunement without healing power is useless for healing purposes > > > 4- cuz it's trash > > > 5- irrelevant > > > > > > > > I literally linked a video with me on war killing someone as fast too, and mesmer, holo, thief and ele can do the same. > > > > > > > > But yeah do you really have your evade on 8 or is this a joke? Why is it that my friend whom plays condi ele can easilly kill longbow rangers? Ele has so many evades and sustain that they can just put down condi pressure after the initial burst, rangers die to condis. > > > > > > > > > > > Also that was 1.5s, not 0.5 and you were at 10k HP, if a deadeye came out and backstabbed you for 21k it would be the exact same, or a mesmer spike, or anything else really. > > > It was 0.5s, first arrow hits when my attunements were on 1.9 cd and i die at 1.3, 0.6s precisely. > > > > > > Whats next ? predicting the future ? > > > > But yeah 1v1 my weaver or my friends weaver with your soulbeast and see what happens. > > Yet now you say this? Its funny but couldn't I use your own logic to debate that Scourge and Firebrand are balanced because they can be beaten in 1v1's by certain classes? Its almost as If balance isn't just based around how well a build can duel, and there may be other factors that need to be taken into account. For the record I agree with you, scourge and firebrand are far too good at their roles and probably need to be toned down. Not because they're god at 1v1's but because they excel far too much in their respective roles which is cleave and boon removal/support and healing respectively. Much like how Soulbeast with sicem is far too good at its role, high burst damage and needs to be toned down. > > Look if you want to argue that Soulbeast when combined with sicem/longbow/unstoppable union is balanced the way it is, then stop using the fact that some builds can beat it in a duel to debate your point, because even you understand that a build can be overpowered in other ways besides dueling. Yes, and longbow is shit for zergfights, while not outperforming other roaming builds in 1v1. So where exactly is it broken? If you get outnumbered 2v1 when you should have lost anyways? I am talking about roaming/1v1 because it is obv bad in zerg. 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steki.1478 Posted July 8, 2019 Share Posted July 8, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > Yes, and longbow is kitten for zergfights, while not outperforming other roaming builds in 1v1. So where exactly is it broken? If you get outnumbered 2v1 when you should have lost anyways? It's the only build that can kill someone in the middle of 50 people so it's far from being kitten. It's useless in squad because it can buff itself, but it's far from useless in zergs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LetoII.3782 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 > @"steki.1478" said: > it's far from useless in zergs. Yet every Commander in the game will tell you to get off ranger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spectrito.8513 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > So if you had full endurance bar and that is the reason you didn't use your evade, why didn't you dodge? Also why is your evade literally bound to 8? Heal signet is very good actually, you play roaming ele without healing power? > If you pay attention to the video i died on a dodge animation, not it's not bound to 8, my utilities are bound to zxc and dodge to v, my reaction was good Why do you think everyone on a weaver NEEDS to play a sword build ? > And yes, it is not irrelevant, play stupid games win stupid prizes. > Where i died is irrelevant, what is relevant in this video is that in i died with full health(i used my healing skill which heals for 6.5k at 10k health and had no poison on me) with protection in less than a second. > It is 1s atleast, look at the video, you get hit atr 12s, die somewhere just over 13s, also that ranger literally walked up for like 4 seconds before they did anything giving you enough time to respond. > Just look at the vid, first arrow hits me when my attunements were on 1.9s cd and i die at 1.3s, if i simply runned away i would never get out of his range so i waited for his burst > But yeah 1v1 my weaver or my friends weaver with your soulbeast and see what happens. Soulbeasts can kite you forever with bird leap with a 10s cd and gs3 > @"Celsith.2753" said: > Im the ranger in that linked vid. I stood there, clearly visible, you had plenty of time to just.. leave. You also play glassy enough to burst someone down just as quickly. I'm not saying SLB is balanced at all, but another player on a build that can kill just as fast is laughable. Easy to tell others to run...... from the highest range in the game with a stupid ammount of damage and mobility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug.4930 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 > @"Anput.4620" said: > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > Why are Scourge and Firebrand allowed to be the 2 best WvW professions since PoF without any complaints? > > > > Remember when you said this? > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > @"Kovu.7560" said: > > > > > > @"spectrito.8513" said: > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > > > > @"steki.1478" said: > > > > > > > > Why do you keep comparing cheese builds with dueling ones? With that logic I can say that holo is underpowered because it's bad in blobs and you should l2p if you're struggling against it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Because cheese builds aren't actually good, they are cheese, hence no need to balance around poeple that won't L2P being cheesed. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > @"Doug.4930" said: > > > > > > > > Once again everything is about 1v1's. Game isn't balanced soley around 1v1's. I think glassbows are wayyy too good at their role, killing people in less than a second, you think its fine because in an honorable duel they can be beaten. Agree to disagree. I'm not gonna quit the game over this build, but I will continue to criticise it. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Then where are you talking? 1v2? Should have lost that anyways, blobs? They suck there, what are you even talking about here? It is about objective performance in combat, where relatively it doesn't objectively overperform compared to other builds. > > > > > > > > > > > > Cant dodge in 0.5 sec with protection? clearly l2p issue > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The player in the video, clearly not invested in any toughness, was down to ~10k health when the volley started, though they did have both dodges available. Moreover, that ranger clearly ran out and stood there for a couple of seconds before even firing. Not saying the damage wasn't too high, just that the player in question needed to improve their peripheral awareness. (Keep buffs were also a thing, based on the targeted ele.) Not sure why they were expecting an honest duel next to the gate of SMC. > > > > > > > > > > ~ Kovu > > > > > > > > I had protection, how much toughness i need to get a 33% reduction ? > > > > I wasnt at 10k health, i used the healing skill which heals for 6.5k on earth attunement i was almost at full health (16,805) you'll notice my health going up and immediately going down as he hits me. > > > > His first arrow hits me when my attunements where on 1.9 secs cd left, i died literally 0.5 sec later the first hit on a dodge animation. > > > > > > > > @"Anput.4620" > > > > I'm almost sure you're trolling but i'll answer you anyway > > > > > @"Anput.4620" said: > > > > > Why didn't you use the evade utility? Do you really use 8 for it or is it another button? Also why didn't you use water stance to heal once you disengaged? Also why aren't you using healing signet? You where also attacking someone at keep gate? Why? > > > > 1 - because i had a full endurance bar > > > > 2- no > > > > 3- water attunement without healing power is useless for healing purposes > > > > 4- cuz it's trash > > > > 5- irrelevant > > > > > > > > > > I literally linked a video with me on war killing someone as fast too, and mesmer, holo, thief and ele can do the same. > > > > > > > > > > But yeah do you really have your evade on 8 or is this a joke? Why is it that my friend whom plays condi ele can easilly kill longbow rangers? Ele has so many evades and sustain that they can just put down condi pressure after the initial burst, rangers die to condis. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Also that was 1.5s, not 0.5 and you were at 10k HP, if a deadeye came out and backstabbed you for 21k it would be the exact same, or a mesmer spike, or anything else really. > > > > It was 0.5s, first arrow hits when my attunements were on 1.9 cd and i die at 1.3, 0.6s precisely. > > > > > > > > Whats next ? predicting the future ? > > > > > > But yeah 1v1 my weaver or my friends weaver with your soulbeast and see what happens. > > > > Yet now you say this? Its funny but couldn't I use your own logic to debate that Scourge and Firebrand are balanced because they can be beaten in 1v1's by certain classes? Its almost as If balance isn't just based around how well a build can duel, and there may be other factors that need to be taken into account. For the record I agree with you, scourge and firebrand are far too good at their roles and probably need to be toned down. Not because they're god at 1v1's but because they excel far too much in their respective roles which is cleave and boon removal/support and healing respectively. Much like how Soulbeast with sicem is far too good at its role, high burst damage and needs to be toned down. > > > > Look if you want to argue that Soulbeast when combined with sicem/longbow/unstoppable union is balanced the way it is, then stop using the fact that some builds can beat it in a duel to debate your point, because even you understand that a build can be overpowered in other ways besides dueling. So where exactly is it broken? It is broken it its ability to deal EXTREME single target damage and then retreat. Its a hit and run monster, if you're in a team fight like 2v2 or 3v2 and this build happens along the fight, you die. You die instantly. There is no counter play you just die. Any other class like a warrior or a deadeye there is counter play. You get marked/the warrior literally has to run up to you. But with ranger it can burst at 1,800 range. It can even approach and begin the burst from stealth. you'll never see it until you're dead. So thats where its broken, single target burst damage from range, its ability to hit and run with impunity. Extreme low risk, extreme high reward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Straegen.2938 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 The current SB is essentially payback for Rangers being craptastic for years. That said, it is time to tone down the pew pew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celsith.2753 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 > @"spectrito.8513" said: > Easy to tell others to run...... from the highest range in the game with a stupid ammount of damage and mobility. I gave you several seconds to see me arrive right in front of you and leave. You didn't. You would have also died if a thief or mes had come out, or anyone came from behind. It happened to be a ranger this time. This topic really gives me conflicting opinions. On the one hand I agree, THAT amount of damage from what can be over 2k range away is completely overpowered. On the other hand, if you take it away the rangers that are managing to contribute in zergs now will once again be useless if it's toned down. Talking strictly about the full glass lol dead from 2k range away builds, the place they are strong is +1's, initial down in a group fight if people don't react quickly or lag. Often that down is rezzed before anyone can stomp. But pressure them and they've got to run or they die just as fast. Oh and killing cocky mounted people who think they're invincible. The last is why i'm still playing it. It need's to change but I don't know how without once again gutting it to uselessness. Knowing Anet either nothing will change or it'll be gutted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArchonWing.9480 Posted July 9, 2019 Share Posted July 9, 2019 Ranger is apparently overpowered when 2v1'ing people.... what class isn't? And yes, the balance is crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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