Bazooka.3590 Posted July 2, 2019 Share Posted July 2, 2019 Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Rampage, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm Sooo kitten booooooooring. Nerf them to the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 > @"Bazooka.3590" said: > Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Rampage, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm > Sooo kitten booooooooring. > Nerf them to the ground. Rampage, yes. Warrior has enough sustain, mightgen and hard cc to take the hit to rampage. Dagger Storm, no. It is being used as a stopgap to keep thief from being completely useless in the current meta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praqtos.9035 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"Bazooka.3590" said: > > Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Rampage, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm > > Sooo kitten booooooooring. > > Nerf them to the ground. > > Rampage, yes. Warrior has enough sustain, mightgen and hard cc to take the hit to rampage. > > Dagger Storm, no. It is being used as a stopgap to keep thief from being completely useless in the current meta. . Its not a card game, you shouldnt kill/win people because of LUCK/rng and get 2-3 daggerstorms in a row with heal/breakstun recharge. That bs not does like 12k + damage but also contest the point. Busted DS+improv must stay busted because ... thief would be useless otherwise? People logic...I have no words. A small example: scepter 3 on mesmer made chrono somewhat competitive(only 1 team had it on mAT and no one else and they didnt make it to finals or semis anyway) and it was gutted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > @"Bazooka.3590" said: > > > Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Rampage, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm > > > Sooo kitten booooooooring. > > > Nerf them to the ground. > > > > Rampage, yes. Warrior has enough sustain, mightgen and hard cc to take the hit to rampage. > > > > Dagger Storm, no. It is being used as a stopgap to keep thief from being completely useless in the current meta. > . Its not a card game, you shouldnt kill/win people because of LUCK/rng and get 2-3 daggerstorms in a row with heal/breakstun recharge. > That bs not does like 12k + damage but also contest the point. > Busted DS+improv must stay busted because ... thief would be useless otherwise? People logic...I have no words. > A small example: scepter 3 on mesmer made chrono somewhat competitive(only 1 team had it on mAT and no one else and they didnt make it to finals or semis anyway) and it was gutted. Nobody said anything about improv. If you want to fix the relationship between improv and Daggerstorm, that's fine. Objectively the skill is functioning as a stopgap, however. Improvisation is RNG anyway. If they can find a way to modify the trait so it is more reliable and also doesnt lead to daggerstorm chaining, that's fine. > . Its not a card game, you shouldnt kill/win people because of LUCK/rng and get 2-3 daggerstorms in a row with heal/breakstun recharge. > That bs not does like 12k + damage but also contest the point. Agreed. I'm also fine with it not contesting the point. You shouldnt be able to contest a point while autoreflecting and evading anyway. It is like the only defense they have that isnt hard countered by several passives in the game at the moment, though. It needs to functionally remain how it is for sustain purposes right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > @"Bazooka.3590" said: > > > Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Rampage, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm > > > Sooo kitten booooooooring. > > > Nerf them to the ground. > > > > Rampage, yes. Warrior has enough sustain, mightgen and hard cc to take the hit to rampage. > > > > Dagger Storm, no. It is being used as a stopgap to keep thief from being completely useless in the current meta. > . Its not a card game, you shouldnt kill/win people because of LUCK/rng and get 2-3 daggerstorms in a row with heal/breakstun recharge. > That bs not does like 12k + damage but also contest the point. > Busted DS+improv must stay busted because ... thief would be useless otherwise? People logic...I have no words. > A small example: scepter 3 on mesmer made chrono somewhat competitive(only 1 team had it on mAT and no one else and they didnt make it to finals or semis anyway) and it was gutted. > Give me back my damage and I'll take executioner and basilisk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted July 3, 2019 Share Posted July 3, 2019 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > @"Bazooka.3590" said: > > > > Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Rampage, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm > > > > Sooo kitten booooooooring. > > > > Nerf them to the ground. > > > > > > Rampage, yes. Warrior has enough sustain, mightgen and hard cc to take the hit to rampage. > > > > > > Dagger Storm, no. It is being used as a stopgap to keep thief from being completely useless in the current meta. > > . Its not a card game, you shouldnt kill/win people because of LUCK/rng and get 2-3 daggerstorms in a row with heal/breakstun recharge. > > That bs not does like 12k + damage but also contest the point. > > Busted DS+improv must stay busted because ... thief would be useless otherwise? People logic...I have no words. > > A small example: scepter 3 on mesmer made chrono somewhat competitive(only 1 team had it on mAT and no one else and they didnt make it to finals or semis anyway) and it was gutted. > > > > Give me back my damage and I'll take executioner and basilisk. They cant handle thief with decent damage cuz boo hoo they might get killed by the thief and that hurts their poor feels lmao Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZhouX.8742 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Go ahead, keep nerfing thief, turn every last one of them into rev players Thief is fine relax , so much more busted shit in the game and thief isn't close to one of them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praqtos.9035 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > @"Bazooka.3590" said: > > > > Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Rampage, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm > > > > Sooo kitten booooooooring. > > > > Nerf them to the ground. > > > > > > Rampage, yes. Warrior has enough sustain, mightgen and hard cc to take the hit to rampage. > > > > > > Dagger Storm, no. It is being used as a stopgap to keep thief from being completely useless in the current meta. > > . Its not a card game, you shouldnt kill/win people because of LUCK/rng and get 2-3 daggerstorms in a row with heal/breakstun recharge. > > That bs not does like 12k + damage but also contest the point. > > Busted DS+improv must stay busted because ... thief would be useless otherwise? People logic...I have no words. > > A small example: scepter 3 on mesmer made chrono somewhat competitive(only 1 team had it on mAT and no one else and they didnt make it to finals or semis anyway) and it was gutted. > > > > Give me back my damage and I'll take executioner and basilisk. When thief lose all his mobility and get actual cooldowns instead of skill spam like monkeys, only then would be reasonable to give them more damage. If you want to do "DaMaGe" there is DE. @"Azure The Heartless.3261" Thief wouldnt lose his role even if DS would be removed entirely because of his unmatched mobility. I'm glad you agree with me. Its very simple to do - do not allow it to recharge elite skill or remove "trick" category from DS(so no recharge anymore). Rampage however need like 150/180s cd and 50% damage nerfs - HP boost(20.000 lol), low cd mobility (immob break), damage reduction(certain condis reduced as well), two-shot level damage paired with hard CC on 72/90s cd... Thats ridiculous that this wasnt nerfed after first month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoomNexus.5324 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > @"Bazooka.3590" said: > > > > Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Rampage, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm > > > > Sooo kitten booooooooring. > > > > Nerf them to the ground. > > > > > > Rampage, yes. Warrior has enough sustain, mightgen and hard cc to take the hit to rampage. > > > > > > Dagger Storm, no. It is being used as a stopgap to keep thief from being completely useless in the current meta. > > . Its not a card game, you shouldnt kill/win people because of LUCK/rng and get 2-3 daggerstorms in a row with heal/breakstun recharge. > > That bs not does like 12k + damage but also contest the point. > > Busted DS+improv must stay busted because ... thief would be useless otherwise? People logic...I have no words. > > A small example: scepter 3 on mesmer made chrono somewhat competitive(only 1 team had it on mAT and no one else and they didnt make it to finals or semis anyway) and it was gutted. > I'm also fine with it not contesting the point. You shouldnt be able to contest a point while autoreflecting and evading anyway. Yes you should actually because it's only an evade (not a block or invul) and daggerstorm is by far not the only autoreflecting skill in the game. If thief was invulnerable during the time I would say ofc remove the point contest. But listen: 1) Dagger Storm can be interrupted by quite a few CCs and will stop immediately 2) Thief still gets damage from retaliation and is susceptible to condi damage 3) Thief still gets affected by wells and other AoE fields 4) Dagger Storm only deals a decent amount of damage if you stand right next to the thief, if you are only at a slight distance you will only get like 1 or 2k damage. It's not a godmode skill a lot of people are claiming it to be, it's just there. Maybe annoying but not really an issue in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praqtos.9035 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > @"Bazooka.3590" said: > > > > > Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Rampage, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm > > > > > Sooo kitten booooooooring. > > > > > Nerf them to the ground. > > > > > > > > Rampage, yes. Warrior has enough sustain, mightgen and hard cc to take the hit to rampage. > > > > > > > > Dagger Storm, no. It is being used as a stopgap to keep thief from being completely useless in the current meta. > > > . Its not a card game, you shouldnt kill/win people because of LUCK/rng and get 2-3 daggerstorms in a row with heal/breakstun recharge. > > > That bs not does like 12k + damage but also contest the point. > > > Busted DS+improv must stay busted because ... thief would be useless otherwise? People logic...I have no words. > > > A small example: scepter 3 on mesmer made chrono somewhat competitive(only 1 team had it on mAT and no one else and they didnt make it to finals or semis anyway) and it was gutted. > > I'm also fine with it not contesting the point. You shouldnt be able to contest a point while autoreflecting and evading anyway. > > Yes you should actually because it's only an evade (not a block or invul) and daggerstorm is by far not the only autoreflecting skill in the game. > If thief was invulnerable during the time I would say ofc remove the point contest. But listen: > 1) Dagger Storm can be interrupted by quite a few CCs and will stop immediately Not true, you have to play meme builds like DH AND land your spear to be able to stop it. Hammer meme guardian AND thief must be DUMB to walk into hammer5. SPB must land burst AND break the distance to make it pull the thief but its unrealistically as he has no problems to follow you with boosted movespeed and throwing crippling daggers all over the place. Meme shield offhand holo. Mainhand dagger elementalist. 4 seconds of evasion+reflects and DPS mode in the same time its beyond dumb, then recharge it with a steal and its 8 seconds and all the time you contest the node. Just to counter 1 skill I have to play special class and have special circumstances for it, thats alone a reason to smiter's boon it to hell. > 2) Thief still gets damage from retaliation and is susceptible to condi damage Your 1k hp loss incomparable how much damage you do to them. Thief cleanses are instant and can be used in DS,what the problem with it? > 3) Thief still gets affected by wells and other AoE fields what... > 4) Dagger Storm only deals a decent amount of damage if you stand right next to the thief, if you are only at a slight distance you will only get like 1 or 2k damage. Damage done by daggers is not reduced with the range, the damage is always the same, even if it bounce up to 1200 range. > It's not a godmode skill a lot of people are claiming it to be, it's just there. Maybe annoying but not really an issue in my opinion. 4s evade-reflect, 8-12k damage, can be rng'd twice-three times - thats a huge issue for me . Its not a god mode because rampage took the crown. Somewhere in my universe this skill would be balanced if it had:same damage per dagger, no reflect, 3s evade, cant be recharged by anything, 60-75s cd. (if reflect is kept then damage from daggers reduced by ~33%) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yannir.4132 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Concerning Dagger Storm, I think it should be shorter duration. 3 second duration would be consistent with skills like Renewed Focus on Guardian. I would also change how Improvisation interacts with Elite skills. So instead of fully recharging Elites, it would only recharge them by 50%. So that if you would normally have 40 seconds of cooldown left, it would be reduced to 20. Either that or it would just reduce a flat 20 seconds off of the cooldown. Rampage should get a variety of slight nerfs rather than overkill panic reactions. IMO Rampage doesn't need Stability at all, or maybe just a single Stab in the beginning. Just doing this would open up counterplay options for classes that actually contest into them. The damage from the autoattack should be tuned down a bit. Those autos are fast and they hit for 3k, 3k, and 5k vs a guy in a demo ammy currently. Around a 20% damage shave seems about right. A 50% damage shave for Dash is also warranted. This skill is a gap closer/creator, it doesn't need massive damage as well. Other skills in Rampage I would leave be. Then finally bump the cooldown up to 120 seconds, and make Rampage so that it cancels Berserk mode on entry. These changes I think would still keep the skills in question viable options but should be seen less because it would make other options more appealing. And give Thieves their damage back as compensation for the DS nerfs. Especially on dagger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyus.4610 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > @"Bazooka.3590" said: > > > > > > Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Rampage, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm > > > > > > Sooo kitten booooooooring. > > > > > > Nerf them to the ground. > > > > > > > > > > Rampage, yes. Warrior has enough sustain, mightgen and hard cc to take the hit to rampage. > > > > > > > > > > Dagger Storm, no. It is being used as a stopgap to keep thief from being completely useless in the current meta. > > > > . Its not a card game, you shouldnt kill/win people because of LUCK/rng and get 2-3 daggerstorms in a row with heal/breakstun recharge. > > > > That bs not does like 12k + damage but also contest the point. > > > > Busted DS+improv must stay busted because ... thief would be useless otherwise? People logic...I have no words. > > > > A small example: scepter 3 on mesmer made chrono somewhat competitive(only 1 team had it on mAT and no one else and they didnt make it to finals or semis anyway) and it was gutted. > > > I'm also fine with it not contesting the point. You shouldnt be able to contest a point while autoreflecting and evading anyway. > > > > Yes you should actually because it's only an evade (not a block or invul) and daggerstorm is by far not the only autoreflecting skill in the game. > > If thief was invulnerable during the time I would say ofc remove the point contest. But listen: > > 1) Dagger Storm can be interrupted by quite a few CCs and will stop immediately > Not true, you have to play meme builds like DH AND land your spear to be able to stop it. Hammer meme guardian AND thief must be DUMB to walk into hammer5. > SPB must land burst AND break the distance to make it pull the thief but its unrealistically as he has no problems to follow you with boosted movespeed and throwing crippling daggers all over the place. Meme shield offhand holo. Mainhand dagger elementalist. > 4 seconds of evasion+reflects and DPS mode in the same time its beyond dumb, then recharge it with a steal and its 8 seconds and all the time you contest the node. > Just to counter 1 skill I have to play special class and have special circumstances for it, thats alone a reason to smiter's boon it to hell. > > 2) Thief still gets damage from retaliation and is susceptible to condi damage > Your 1k hp loss incomparable how much damage you do to them. Thief cleanses are instant and can be used in DS,what the problem with it? > > 3) Thief still gets affected by wells and other AoE fields > what... > > 4) Dagger Storm only deals a decent amount of damage if you stand right next to the thief, if you are only at a slight distance you will only get like 1 or 2k damage. > Damage done by daggers is not reduced with the range, the damage is always the same, even if it bounce up to 1200 range. > > It's not a godmode skill a lot of people are claiming it to be, it's just there. Maybe annoying but not really an issue in my opinion. > 4s evade-reflect, 8-12k damage, can be rng'd twice-three times - thats a huge issue for me . > Its not a god mode because rampage took the crown. > Somewhere in my universe this skill would be balanced if it had:same damage per dagger, no reflect, 3s evade, cant be recharged by anything, 60-75s cd. (if reflect is kept then damage from daggers reduced by ~33%) You clearly never played with thief. Atleast one time im gonna be interrupted in every match or a support player will completely negate my DS by a projectile blocking field, im playing a core d/p build with 3k power yet i do 8-12k in ever 5th match, if like 4 out of 5 enemy players presented on mid, what @"DoomNexus.5324" said is compeltely legit, if you stand like 300 distance away from the thief, you gonna get like max 4k cos of the rng projectile throwing. You are quite biassed against thief, are u playing a zerker staff ele or what m8? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praqtos.9035 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > > @"Bazooka.3590" said: > > > > > > > Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Rampage, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm > > > > > > > Sooo kitten booooooooring. > > > > > > > Nerf them to the ground. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rampage, yes. Warrior has enough sustain, mightgen and hard cc to take the hit to rampage. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dagger Storm, no. It is being used as a stopgap to keep thief from being completely useless in the current meta. > > > > > . Its not a card game, you shouldnt kill/win people because of LUCK/rng and get 2-3 daggerstorms in a row with heal/breakstun recharge. > > > > > That bs not does like 12k + damage but also contest the point. > > > > > Busted DS+improv must stay busted because ... thief would be useless otherwise? People logic...I have no words. > > > > > A small example: scepter 3 on mesmer made chrono somewhat competitive(only 1 team had it on mAT and no one else and they didnt make it to finals or semis anyway) and it was gutted. > > > > I'm also fine with it not contesting the point. You shouldnt be able to contest a point while autoreflecting and evading anyway. > > > > > > Yes you should actually because it's only an evade (not a block or invul) and daggerstorm is by far not the only autoreflecting skill in the game. > > > If thief was invulnerable during the time I would say ofc remove the point contest. But listen: > > > 1) Dagger Storm can be interrupted by quite a few CCs and will stop immediately > > Not true, you have to play meme builds like DH AND land your spear to be able to stop it. Hammer meme guardian AND thief must be DUMB to walk into hammer5. > > SPB must land burst AND break the distance to make it pull the thief but its unrealistically as he has no problems to follow you with boosted movespeed and throwing crippling daggers all over the place. Meme shield offhand holo. Mainhand dagger elementalist. > > 4 seconds of evasion+reflects and DPS mode in the same time its beyond dumb, then recharge it with a steal and its 8 seconds and all the time you contest the node. > > Just to counter 1 skill I have to play special class and have special circumstances for it, thats alone a reason to smiter's boon it to hell. > > > 2) Thief still gets damage from retaliation and is susceptible to condi damage > > Your 1k hp loss incomparable how much damage you do to them. Thief cleanses are instant and can be used in DS,what the problem with it? > > > 3) Thief still gets affected by wells and other AoE fields > > what... > > > 4) Dagger Storm only deals a decent amount of damage if you stand right next to the thief, if you are only at a slight distance you will only get like 1 or 2k damage. > > Damage done by daggers is not reduced with the range, the damage is always the same, even if it bounce up to 1200 range. > > > It's not a godmode skill a lot of people are claiming it to be, it's just there. Maybe annoying but not really an issue in my opinion. > > 4s evade-reflect, 8-12k damage, can be rng'd twice-three times - thats a huge issue for me . > > Its not a god mode because rampage took the crown. > > Somewhere in my universe this skill would be balanced if it had:same damage per dagger, no reflect, 3s evade, cant be recharged by anything, 60-75s cd. (if reflect is kept then damage from daggers reduced by ~33%) > > You clearly never played with thief. > Atleast one time im gonna be interrupted in every match or a support player will completely negate my DS by a projectile blocking field, im playing a core d/p build with 3k power yet i do 8-12k in ever 5th match, if like 4 out of 5 enemy players presented on mid, what @"DoomNexus.5324" said is compeltely legit, if you stand like 300 distance away from the thief, you gonna get like max 4k cos of the rng projectile throwing. > You are quite biassed against thief, are u playing a zerker staff ele or what m8? :) And that you main the thief doesnt make you not biased, more like makes you even more biased. You even pissed off sind in your thread? Wew. What I have said is not legit ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyus.4610 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 I really dislike bluri since the times i used to "compete", it makes me a bit biased indeed cos its my main, but i play other classes frequently and i can tell you that no DS is not a problem with thief especially with thief current state, but your hate towards DS and thieves is just lol, also i already said what is not legit what you just claimed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widmo.3186 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Imagine crying about teef after so many nerfs, lmao. Ofc I wouldnt call teef useless, but there are many other things that should be cleared in first place and teef is none of them. DE whining? Byebye silent scope and things. DD whining? Byebye steal. Core whining? What now, byebye off-hands and only Repeater shall be played? Hillarious xD. _Btw DS contesting points, Q_Q im playing power spec and enemy warrior uses enduring pain and FC, how am I supposted to cap it, its so busted Q_Q (not even elite skill btw)_ PS: I like how whole thread went into DS discussion and at least everyone agrees that Rampage is busted, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > > @"DoomNexus.5324" said: > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > > > > > @"Azure The Heartless.3261" said: > > > > > > > @"Bazooka.3590" said: > > > > > > > Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Rampage, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Rampage, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm, Dagger Storm > > > > > > > Sooo kitten booooooooring. > > > > > > > Nerf them to the ground. > > > > > > > > > > > > Rampage, yes. Warrior has enough sustain, mightgen and hard cc to take the hit to rampage. > > > > > > > > > > > > Dagger Storm, no. It is being used as a stopgap to keep thief from being completely useless in the current meta. > > > > > . Its not a card game, you shouldnt kill/win people because of LUCK/rng and get 2-3 daggerstorms in a row with heal/breakstun recharge. > > > > > That bs not does like 12k + damage but also contest the point. > > > > > Busted DS+improv must stay busted because ... thief would be useless otherwise? People logic...I have no words. > > > > > A small example: scepter 3 on mesmer made chrono somewhat competitive(only 1 team had it on mAT and no one else and they didnt make it to finals or semis anyway) and it was gutted. > > > > I'm also fine with it not contesting the point. You shouldnt be able to contest a point while autoreflecting and evading anyway. > > > > > > Yes you should actually because it's only an evade (not a block or invul) and daggerstorm is by far not the only autoreflecting skill in the game. > > > If thief was invulnerable during the time I would say ofc remove the point contest. But listen: > > > 1) Dagger Storm can be interrupted by quite a few CCs and will stop immediately > > Not true, you have to play meme builds like DH AND land your spear to be able to stop it. Hammer meme guardian AND thief must be DUMB to walk into hammer5. > > SPB must land burst AND break the distance to make it pull the thief but its unrealistically as he has no problems to follow you with boosted movespeed and throwing crippling daggers all over the place. Meme shield offhand holo. Mainhand dagger elementalist. > > 4 seconds of evasion+reflects and DPS mode in the same time its beyond dumb, then recharge it with a steal and its 8 seconds and all the time you contest the node. > > Just to counter 1 skill I have to play special class and have special circumstances for it, thats alone a reason to smiter's boon it to hell. > > > 2) Thief still gets damage from retaliation and is susceptible to condi damage > > Your 1k hp loss incomparable how much damage you do to them. Thief cleanses are instant and can be used in DS,what the problem with it? > > > 3) Thief still gets affected by wells and other AoE fields > > what... > > > 4) Dagger Storm only deals a decent amount of damage if you stand right next to the thief, if you are only at a slight distance you will only get like 1 or 2k damage. > > Damage done by daggers is not reduced with the range, the damage is always the same, even if it bounce up to 1200 range. > > > It's not a godmode skill a lot of people are claiming it to be, it's just there. Maybe annoying but not really an issue in my opinion. > > 4s evade-reflect, 8-12k damage, can be rng'd twice-three times - thats a huge issue for me . > > Its not a god mode because rampage took the crown. > > Somewhere in my universe this skill would be balanced if it had:same damage per dagger, no reflect, 3s evade, cant be recharged by anything, 60-75s cd. (if reflect is kept then damage from daggers reduced by ~33%) > > You clearly never played with thief. > Atleast one time im gonna be interrupted in every match or a support player will completely negate my DS by a projectile blocking field, im playing a core d/p build with 3k power yet i do 8-12k in ever 5th match, if like 4 out of 5 enemy players presented on mid, what @"DoomNexus.5324" said is compeltely legit, if you stand like 300 distance away from the thief, you gonna get like max 4k cos of the rng projectile throwing. > You are quite biassed against thief, are u playing a zerker staff ele or what m8? :) Mesmer prob lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praqtos.9035 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 @"Psycoprophet.8107" Indeed. Want me to complain about plasma as well?:D Double-triple DS concerns me the most. The point I made about RNG is valid. Yet > @"Menyus.4610" said: > I really dislike bluri since the times i used to "compete", it makes me a bit biased indeed cos its my main, but i play other classes frequently and i can tell you that no DS is not a problem with thief especially with thief current state, but your hate towards DS and thieves is just lol, also i already said what is not legit what you just claimed Or because of your "thief is bad" thread? If you pretend its bad why Sind is top1 and winning monthlies against beyond broken teamcomps? My hate towards DS is absolutely justified, I dont want to play in cardstone and be "outskilled" by rng when its alrdy ridiculously strong elite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZeroTheCat.2684 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Honestly how can people complain about these skills..?? None of them is OP. Strong, yes but not OP. So you get killed by a duelist and come to the forum to cry. Really..? Would be interesting to hear what class the op (and all nerf-instigators) is playing. There are so much other crap that needs attention in spvp than these skills. I reeeally hope the devs doesn’t look at the forums sometimes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 Sind is a great player period. If he had or chose to play any number of the power crept classes I'd be afraid to see the results after he spent time on em. He also plays with other great players. Let's be honest thief's meta in pvp because sb5 and its mobility to reach cap points to decap them lol thier +1 is better done on rev now. So with good rotations their mobility with sb5 fits well into contributing in a conquest style pvp. Decapping is very effective for for being successful in that type of game mode for sure but is it fun? Is it somthing other classes with mobility could do if they tried? Is it enough to be good in a mode because one skill even if it happens to be effective in this one mode for winning matches. I'm sure thief players would rather between the three specs have a different more enjoyable/impactful role than running to decap nodes,or maybe have another weapon set be viable in higher tiers lol. Notice how DS didnt even equate into the post lol. Noody a thief player that does vids recently started learning chrono and his latest vid says their insane so they cant be all bad right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praqtos.9035 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > Sind is a great player period. If he had or chose to play any number of the power crept classes I'd be afraid to see the results after he spent time on em. He also plays with other great players. Let's be honest thief's meta in pvp because sb5 and its mobility to reach cap points to decap them lol thier +1 is better done on rev now. So with good rotations their mobility with sb5 fits well into contributing in a conquest style pvp. Decapping is very effective for for being successful in that type of game mode for sure but is it fun? Is it somthing other classes with mobility could do if they tried? Is it enough to be good in a mode because one skill even if it happens to be effective in this one mode for winning matches. I'm sure thief players would rather between the three specs have a different more enjoyable/impactful role than running to decap nodes,or maybe have another weapon set be viable in higher tiers lol. Notice how DS didnt even equate into the post lol. Noody a thief player that does vids recently started learning chrono and his latest vid says their insane so they cant be all bad right? He is amazingly good thief because he know how to rotate and what to do to win. Sind playing with and against really good players and prove that thief is not useless as everyone pretend. I'm not sure if anything is fun right now, PoF is sucked all fun from the game imo. Who would I believe... A high skilled player who compete with the best or make cherry picked montages from unranked/rankeds... probably the latter /s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 I never said sind believed thief wasn't effective in pvp conquest when played right, nor did I. I actually said the opposite. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyus.4610 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > Sind is a great player period. If he had or chose to play any number of the power crept classes I'd be afraid to see the results after he spent time on em. He also plays with other great players. Let's be honest thief's meta in pvp because sb5 and its mobility to reach cap points to decap them lol thier +1 is better done on rev now. So with good rotations their mobility with sb5 fits well into contributing in a conquest style pvp. Decapping is very effective for for being successful in that type of game mode for sure but is it fun? Is it somthing other classes with mobility could do if they tried? Is it enough to be good in a mode because one skill even if it happens to be effective in this one mode for winning matches. I'm sure thief players would rather between the three specs have a different more enjoyable/impactful role than running to decap nodes,or maybe have another weapon set be viable in higher tiers lol. Notice how DS didnt even equate into the post lol. Noody a thief player that does vids recently started learning chrono and his latest vid says their insane so they cant be all bad right? > He is amazingly good thief because he know how to rotate and what to do to win. > Sind playing with and against really good players and prove that thief is not useless as everyone pretend. > I'm not sure if anything is fun right now, PoF is sucked all fun from the game imo. > Who would I believe... A high skilled player who compete with the best or make cherry picked montages from unranked/rankeds... probably the latter /s Place bluri into gold tier 1, make him soloQ and lets see if he can climb as fast as his skill level. The answer is no.(he plays thief ofc)With other classes you can achieve things much more efficiently, thieves mobility becoming more and more obsolote with all the movement skills across classes. Also that wanted to be a meme thread, but i cant upload pictures to the forum nor link, the post wanted to show me with 3k power and 247% ferocity doing 2*273 wildstrike to enemy war with no boons. Also according to your logic if one "highly competitive godlike so fancy um nyum-nyum sind player" can be top 1 and win monthly with a class then that class is easy, good balanced etc... In 1953 Edmund Hillary climbed Mt Everest, according to your logic then every human can achieve the same. Also minor factors that he had a Sherpa called Tendzing Norgaj doesnt even matter only the individual. Also for real..., thief player base is basically dissapeared over the years, in pvp i used to see atleast one in every match, now i can play 3-4 games and the only thief is me, in WvW thief totally went extinct too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > Sind is a great player period. If he had or chose to play any number of the power crept classes I'd be afraid to see the results after he spent time on em. He also plays with other great players. Let's be honest thief's meta in pvp because sb5 and its mobility to reach cap points to decap them lol thier +1 is better done on rev now. So with good rotations their mobility with sb5 fits well into contributing in a conquest style pvp. Decapping is very effective for for being successful in that type of game mode for sure but is it fun? Is it somthing other classes with mobility could do if they tried? Is it enough to be good in a mode because one skill even if it happens to be effective in this one mode for winning matches. I'm sure thief players would rather between the three specs have a different more enjoyable/impactful role than running to decap nodes,or maybe have another weapon set be viable in higher tiers lol. Notice how DS didnt even equate into the post lol. Noody a thief player that does vids recently started learning chrono and his latest vid says their insane so they cant be all bad right? > > He is amazingly good thief because he know how to rotate and what to do to win. > > Sind playing with and against really good players and prove that thief is not useless as everyone pretend. > > I'm not sure if anything is fun right now, PoF is sucked all fun from the game imo. > > Who would I believe... A high skilled player who compete with the best or make cherry picked montages from unranked/rankeds... probably the latter /s > > Place bluri into gold tier 1, make him soloQ and lets see if he can climb as fast as his skill level. The answer is no.(he plays thief ofc)With other classes you can achieve things much more efficiently, thieves mobility becoming more and more obsolote with all the movement skills across classes. > Also that wanted to be a meme thread, but i cant upload pictures to the forum nor link, the post wanted to show me with 3k power and 247% ferocity doing 2*273 wildstrike to enemy war with no boons. > Also according to your logic if one "highly competitive godlike so fancy um nyum-nyum sind player" can be top 1 and win monthly with a class then that class is easy, good balanced etc... > In 1953 Edmund Hillary climbed Mt Everest, according to your logic then every human can achieve the same. Also minor factors that he had a Sherpa called Tendzing Norgaj doesnt even matter only the individual. > > Also for real..., thief player base is basically dissapeared over the years, in pvp i used to see atleast one in every match, now i can play 3-4 games and the only thief is me, in WvW thief totally went extinct too This ^ Sind is a amazing thief player or player in general who knows how to make almost always flawless rotations and uses the strengths thief has in mobility to do those rotations and decap points to the point he almost carries some matches. Sind arguement to thief players wasnt that thief is in a good state but more so that it isn't ineffective or weak in pvp CONQUEST which it isn't due to again the sb5 enabling thief to decap more efficiently than other classes. Though decapping is a crap job doing it wins matches so yeah thief is still viable and meta but even sind has stated having one viable build/weapon set is boring after all these years lol. I still stand by what I said though that without sb5 thief would be extinct in pvp and its roaming capabilities depend on it to a degree that thief as a roamer would be even more extinct than it is now lol. If a class was lacking in every way compared to others in pvp but had a instant port to cap points it would be meta and strong in that game mode but would it be a good design or mean that the class is strong, especially considering the non cap game modes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praqtos.9035 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > Sind is a great player period. If he had or chose to play any number of the power crept classes I'd be afraid to see the results after he spent time on em. He also plays with other great players. Let's be honest thief's meta in pvp because sb5 and its mobility to reach cap points to decap them lol thier +1 is better done on rev now. So with good rotations their mobility with sb5 fits well into contributing in a conquest style pvp. Decapping is very effective for for being successful in that type of game mode for sure but is it fun? Is it somthing other classes with mobility could do if they tried? Is it enough to be good in a mode because one skill even if it happens to be effective in this one mode for winning matches. I'm sure thief players would rather between the three specs have a different more enjoyable/impactful role than running to decap nodes,or maybe have another weapon set be viable in higher tiers lol. Notice how DS didnt even equate into the post lol. Noody a thief player that does vids recently started learning chrono and his latest vid says their insane so they cant be all bad right? > > > He is amazingly good thief because he know how to rotate and what to do to win. > > > Sind playing with and against really good players and prove that thief is not useless as everyone pretend. > > > I'm not sure if anything is fun right now, PoF is sucked all fun from the game imo. > > > Who would I believe... A high skilled player who compete with the best or make cherry picked montages from unranked/rankeds... probably the latter /s > > > > Place bluri into gold tier 1, make him soloQ and lets see if he can climb as fast as his skill level. The answer is no.(he plays thief ofc)With other classes you can achieve things much more efficiently, thieves mobility becoming more and more obsolote with all the movement skills across classes. > > Also that wanted to be a meme thread, but i cant upload pictures to the forum nor link, the post wanted to show me with 3k power and 247% ferocity doing 2*273 wildstrike to enemy war with no boons. > > Also according to your logic if one "highly competitive godlike so fancy um nyum-nyum sind player" can be top 1 and win monthly with a class then that class is easy, good balanced etc... > > In 1953 Edmund Hillary climbed Mt Everest, according to your logic then every human can achieve the same. Also minor factors that he had a Sherpa called Tendzing Norgaj doesnt even matter only the individual. > > > > Also for real..., thief player base is basically dissapeared over the years, in pvp i used to see atleast one in every match, now i can play 3-4 games and the only thief is me, in WvW thief totally went extinct too > > This ^ > Sind is a amazing thief player or player in general who knows how to make almost always flawless rotations and uses the strengths thief has in mobility to do those rotations and decap points to the point he almost carries some matches. Sind arguement to thief players wasnt that thief is in a good state but more so that it isn't ineffective or weak in pvp CONQUEST which it isn't due to again the sb5 enabling thief to decap more efficiently than other classes. Though decapping is a kitten job doing it wins matches so yeah thief is still viable and meta but even sind has stated having one viable build/weapon set is boring after all these years lol. I still stand by what I said though that without sb5 thief would be extinct in pvp and its roaming capabilities depend on it to a degree that thief as a roamer would be even more extinct than it is now lol. If a class was lacking in every way compared to others in pvp but had a instant port to cap points it would be meta and strong in that game mode but would it be a good design or mean that the class is strong, especially considering the non cap game modes? From his own thread. >I mean rifle 4 acts almost the same so wouldnt differ, dash daredevil has almost same mobility too so in order to get thief away from decap/+1 you need to nerf essentially any source of mobility of thief. >Surely if the goal is to make thief into a brawler/rev foster thief needs a massive overhaul. Doesnt matter if thief has weaker damage when you dictate the whole map due to the mobility. If I would be on Anet place I would definitely would want to know his opinion how to make thief better but not broken but..do you really believe anet can afford this? Thier game in a mess with this Q bug and new pops out as perma map choice screen recently. Other games modes? They can split between game modes, not like its first time. DH is wastly superior at WvW just like revenant. Its not another "thief is bad pls buff" or "thief is unfun" thread. Thats alrdy pure derailing boys, you can discuss this somewhere else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycoprophet.8107 Posted July 4, 2019 Share Posted July 4, 2019 > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > @"Menyus.4610" said: > > > > @"praqtos.9035" said: > > > > > @"Psycoprophet.8107" said: > > > > > Sind is a great player period. If he had or chose to play any number of the power crept classes I'd be afraid to see the results after he spent time on em. He also plays with other great players. Let's be honest thief's meta in pvp because sb5 and its mobility to reach cap points to decap them lol thier +1 is better done on rev now. So with good rotations their mobility with sb5 fits well into contributing in a conquest style pvp. Decapping is very effective for for being successful in that type of game mode for sure but is it fun? Is it somthing other classes with mobility could do if they tried? Is it enough to be good in a mode because one skill even if it happens to be effective in this one mode for winning matches. I'm sure thief players would rather between the three specs have a different more enjoyable/impactful role than running to decap nodes,or maybe have another weapon set be viable in higher tiers lol. Notice how DS didnt even equate into the post lol. Noody a thief player that does vids recently started learning chrono and his latest vid says their insane so they cant be all bad right? > > > > He is amazingly good thief because he know how to rotate and what to do to win. > > > > Sind playing with and against really good players and prove that thief is not useless as everyone pretend. > > > > I'm not sure if anything is fun right now, PoF is sucked all fun from the game imo. > > > > Who would I believe... A high skilled player who compete with the best or make cherry picked montages from unranked/rankeds... probably the latter /s > > > > > > Place bluri into gold tier 1, make him soloQ and lets see if he can climb as fast as his skill level. The answer is no.(he plays thief ofc)With other classes you can achieve things much more efficiently, thieves mobility becoming more and more obsolote with all the movement skills across classes. > > > Also that wanted to be a meme thread, but i cant upload pictures to the forum nor link, the post wanted to show me with 3k power and 247% ferocity doing 2*273 wildstrike to enemy war with no boons. > > > Also according to your logic if one "highly competitive godlike so fancy um nyum-nyum sind player" can be top 1 and win monthly with a class then that class is easy, good balanced etc... > > > In 1953 Edmund Hillary climbed Mt Everest, according to your logic then every human can achieve the same. Also minor factors that he had a Sherpa called Tendzing Norgaj doesnt even matter only the individual. > > > > > > Also for real..., thief player base is basically dissapeared over the years, in pvp i used to see atleast one in every match, now i can play 3-4 games and the only thief is me, in WvW thief totally went extinct too > > > > This ^ > > Sind is a amazing thief player or player in general who knows how to make almost always flawless rotations and uses the strengths thief has in mobility to do those rotations and decap points to the point he almost carries some matches. Sind arguement to thief players wasnt that thief is in a good state but more so that it isn't ineffective or weak in pvp CONQUEST which it isn't due to again the sb5 enabling thief to decap more efficiently than other classes. Though decapping is a kitten job doing it wins matches so yeah thief is still viable and meta but even sind has stated having one viable build/weapon set is boring after all these years lol. I still stand by what I said though that without sb5 thief would be extinct in pvp and its roaming capabilities depend on it to a degree that thief as a roamer would be even more extinct than it is now lol. If a class was lacking in every way compared to others in pvp but had a instant port to cap points it would be meta and strong in that game mode but would it be a good design or mean that the class is strong, especially considering the non cap game modes? > From his own thread. > >I mean rifle 4 acts almost the same so wouldnt differ, dash daredevil has almost same mobility too so in order to get thief away from decap/+1 you need to nerf essentially any source of mobility of thief. > >Surely if the goal is to make thief into a brawler/rev foster thief needs a massive overhaul. Doesnt matter if thief has weaker damage when you dictate the whole map due to the mobility. > If I would be on Anet place I would definitely would want to know his opinion how to make thief better but not broken but..do you really believe anet can afford this? Thier game in a mess with this Q bug and new pops out as perma map choice screen recently. > Other games modes? They can split between game modes, not like its first time. DH is wastly superior at WvW just like revenant. > Its not another "thief is bad pls buff" or "thief is unfun" thread. Thats alrdy pure derailing boys, you can discuss this somewhere else Yeah my point doesn't matter if thief's dps is weak or if it couldn't viabley stand on even ground in a 1v1 vs any class as long as it had its mobility (sb5 namely) it will be a valuable part of a team in a mode like conquest due to its ability to rotate and decap but what if the game has multiple modes that arnt cap based? Or is it ok for a class that had 3 specs to only be a runner/decappet and have one competitive build/weapon set? Let alone for years? Is Lol thief isn't the only class hurting like this thsts for sure but thief is definitely not designed well and on top has had too many un needed nerfs and changes that need or should have been reverted long ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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