Nerf the Mirage Daze spam

[Tayga.3192]

> @"Xstein.2187" said:

> > @"Dreddo.9865" said:

> > Because they can be countered and are not spammable - thief has initiative attrition and also takes a big risk at these moves something the mirage is unaware of.

>

> What are you talking about? Thief replenishes initiative 1 every second. Infiltrator's strike uses 3 initiative out of a pool of 12. Mantra of distraction has 2 dazes every 14 1/4 sec with the 2.25 sec activation time that is 'apparently' too short for you to interrupt. You can do the math yourself.

> The comparison is ridiculously strong in thief's favor.

> No amount of complaining is going to change that.

> Numbers don't lie.

 

Thief sword 2 can only be "spammed" if you return, so 5 initiative in total unless you want to wait for 15 seconds.

In my opinion, sword 2 is way better than the interrupt trait. It's a LoS ignoring gap closer (can cleanse a condition and be a gap opener if you give 2 more initiative), gives immobile and is more versatile in general (can be activated without a target and does not depend on your opponent's actions).

[Curunen.8729]

The only additional dazes __mirage__ posseses are Sword Ambush and Trident Ambush (trident being a stun... more of a wvw thing) - together with IH clones doing the same.

 

Rest of it is all core mesmer. To be fair even Chrono potentially has more cc potential and synergy than Mirage (if mirage doesn't use Sword+IH), due to shield 5, GW and F5 combos together with the slow traits. Mirage on it's own, without Sword has barely any control.

 

Funny how since BD got wrecked that the true power of CI has been rediscovered. Last time I played condirupt with MoD+CI was before specialisations. Now it seems an outcome of Anet having nerfed everything else homogenising the build potential even further.

 

For the record I do agree CI+MoD is excessive with the immobilise, though as others have said it's a case of reducing cc and anti-cc potential all around (eg mindless stab uptime for neutering interrupt builds - one of the big reasons power interrupt doesn't work so well. Condi works because the interrupts are icing on the cake, not the foundation of the damage/survival etc).

 

Even then, be very glad they removed Mistrust or you'd be in real kitten now.

[Xstein.2187]

> @"Tayga.3192" said:

> > @"Xstein.2187" said:

> > > @"Dreddo.9865" said:

> > > Because they can be countered and are not spammable - thief has initiative attrition and also takes a big risk at these moves something the mirage is unaware of.

> >

> > What are you talking about? Thief replenishes initiative 1 every second. Infiltrator's strike uses 3 initiative out of a pool of 12. Mantra of distraction has 2 dazes every 14 1/4 sec with the 2.25 sec activation time that is 'apparently' too short for you to interrupt. You can do the math yourself.

> > The comparison is ridiculously strong in thief's favor.

> > No amount of complaining is going to change that.

> > Numbers don't lie.

>

> Thief sword 2 can only be "spammed" if you return, so 5 initiative in total unless you want to wait for 15 seconds.

> In my opinion, sword 2 is way better than the interrupt trait. It's a LoS ignoring gap closer (can cleanse a condition and be a gap opener if you give 2 more initiative), gives immobile and is more versatile in general (can be activated without a target and does not depend on your opponent's actions).

 

Thank you, my bad, forgot to take that into consideration.

So, after 2 sword 2s, you have to wait 6-8 seconds to spam it two more times vs mantra's 14.25 seconds.

I know there will never be a perfect comparison with skills like roll for initiative and traits like Preparedness.

However, it still makes a good point.

 

 

 

[Snellibee.2761]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> Just curious how all people who complain about immobilize on rupt manage things like :

> - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Infiltrator's_Strike

> - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Panic_Strike <= the best passive autoproc in this game imo ...

> - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shackling_Wave

> - https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Binding_Shadow

>

> Just to name a few of other nearly instant immobilize.

> Like how did you survive versus them ?

 

Shackling wave is a 1s cast immobilize that immobilizes for 1s unless more enemies were hit, it's very easy to avoid this

 

You forgot Engi rifle 2 btw

[Dreddo.9865]

> @"Xstein.2187" said:

> What are you talking about? Thief replenishes initiative 1 every second. Infiltrator's strike uses 3 initiative out of a pool of 12. Mantra of distraction has 2 dazes every 14 1/4 sec with the 2.25 sec activation time that is 'apparently' too short for you to interrupt. You can do the math yourself.

> The comparison is ridiculously strong in thief's favor.

> No amount of complaining is going to change that.

> Numbers don't lie.

Unless you are playing in a lab environment where thieves have permanently 12 initiative , this doesn't apply in the real world - in matches with competition of course.

Also please take a minute and comment in what Zenix wrote. Explain us the risks involved on the thief actions - feel free to compare it with the mirage.

[rng.1024]

I don't get the issue, since you can dodge while dazed. Who on earth wastes a stunbreak on a daze? You can move to LoS even, you can still proc passive defenses and even better avoid getting hit by the big ones (pistol for mesmer f.ex) by just looking at the animations

 

The daze mantra is meant for exactly that, to interrupt key skills at a moments notice, and the duration is to allow for follow-up since every other weapon skill has a cast time and usually a projectile portion, it cannot be cast back to back and leaves you at a massive disadvantage when on cd. It's not unblockable, do the standard amount of damage if traited and takes a massive window to charge up - what more do you want? The counterplay is simply to stop autoattacking when you see it's being charged.

 

As for the mirage sword, I agree it's a little too much, especially since when combined with sword 3 clone it allows 2×2 dazes back to back, but we can cleave that clone easily and avoid 2 of those dazes in one evasion frame so it's not like it can't be outplayed.

 

 

[Vague Memory.2817]

I'm starting to get used to Mes threads where people shamelessly exaggerate things to try to make an invalid point. Mantras have already been nerfed several times. Charges were reduced from 3 to 2, and a CD introduced between the 2. Mes used to be able to trait all dazes to stuns in the domination line, but this was also nerfed a while ago to only the distraction shatter skill, which is on a 38sec CD. The only other stun is a signet that is on a 45 CD. So the OP's assertation that Mes can chain stun is absurd. Also Mes dazes can immobilize an opponent if it is traited, and only if the daze interrupts a skill. Which is really not as easy as it sounds. The immob lasts for 2secs and not 10 as stated. So basically another person who has no clue what they are talking about who wants nerfs over something that doesn't exist.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

Another player who wants to get carried by the "balance" team. Nothing new.

[phokus.8934]

It’s people like the OP and supporters that continue to ruin pvp balance.

 

Mesmer interrupt builds have been around for years and were nerfed heavily. What we have now is just a daze where you don’t need to burn a stun break and you can still easily survive.

[Snellibee.2761]

> @"Lincolnbeard.1735" said:

> Another player who wants to get carried by the "balance" team. Nothing new.

 

> @"phokus.8934" said:

> It’s people like the OP and supporters that continue to ruin pvp balance.

>

> Mesmer interrupt builds have been around for years and were nerfed heavily. What we have now is just a daze where you don’t need to burn a stun break and you can still easily survive.

 

Imagine thinking this is great engaging gameplay and requires skill to spam this many dazes. Mirages aren't even trying to daze for interrupts they'll just spam it untill they get an interrupt and feed of it to stunlock the enemy untill he's dead.

 

It's people like me that are trying to make PvP a more skilled and engaging environment and not a spamfest.

[Safandula.8723]

"hehe im thief. hehe i spam sword 2 to put immobilize on enemy. hehe i cant do anything else than auto attacking cuz im out of init. hehe had so much fun with puting this immobilizes. hehe im dead cuz im out of init"

true story 2k19

[mortrialus.3062]

I'm personally hoping the uptick in Power Mesmer over Condition Mesmers between the May Balance Patch and now resulted in Mantra of Distraction taking a hit coincidentally hitting the new CI Condi Mirages that have shown up the past couple of weeks. Condition Mirage is the only class I have ever seen in a game repeatedly get more powerful as it gets nerfed because it awakens people to more broken stuff in the kit that was being overlooked.

 

Right now the Mantra Ammo Counts have a 24 second cooldown. If you spam and double cast the mantra rather than waiting on the ammo the cooldown for recharging the mantra is only 12 seconds to get both charges back, which also shaves 30s off of the Diversion the F3 Daze. So not only are you _not_ punished for using it as frequently as possible rather than saving it and waiting on the ammo, you're actually rewarded with more frequent dazes and cooldown reduction on Diversion if you use it off cooldown.

 

That seems backwards to me. Like the ammo recharge should go down to 15 seconds on recharge and the full mantra cooldown should be 40 seconds on recharge. So if you're patient, if you time your interrupts better, you get more value out of them. But if you want to interrupt twice very frequently you have to pay for it with a higher cooldown to use interrupts again. And if face a mesmer and you see the two 2 mantra dazes done back to back you know they aren't going to be able to do so again for some time.

 

Mantra of Daze and Mantra of Pain should probably be turned into Projectiles with travel time as well, just to add some counterplay to the abilities.

 

Also I get the whole randomness is part of the flavor for Chaos themed skills, but randomly pulsing daze on Chaos Storm (Aegis too for that matter) is just too much high value randomness that this game was always trying to get away from.

[Tayga.3192]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> Right now the Mantra Ammo Counts have a 24 second cooldown. If you spam and double cast the mantra rather than waiting on the ammo the cooldown for recharging the mantra is only 12 seconds to get both charges back, which also shaves 30s off of the Diversion the F3 Daze. So not only are you _not_ punished for using it as frequently as possible rather than saving it and waiting on the ammo, you're actually rewarded with more frequent dazes and cooldown reduction on Diversion if you use it off cooldown.

>

> That seems backwards to me. Like the ammo recharge should go down to 15 seconds on recharge and the full mantra cooldown should be 40 seconds on recharge. So if you're patient, if you time your interrupts better, you get more value out of them. But if you want to interrupt twice very frequently you have to pay for it with a higher cooldown to use interrupts again. And if face a mesmer and you see the two 2 mantra dazes done back to back you know they aren't going to be able to do so again for some time.

 

It works as intended, the ammo cd is just added because of this: Before, when you cast only one ammo in a duel and win, you needed to cast the other ammo without targeting anything and recast mantra to get your 2nd cast. Now, you can wait and it'll replenish itself.

[praqtos.9035]

> @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> It's people like me that are trying to make PvP a more skilled and engaging environment and not a spamfest.

And thats comes from biased REV main defending it in every thread about revs, trying to downplay their strength...?

Out of ALL META braindead unskilled spammers you complain only about the mesmer... literally begging to nerf rev counter, clearly not biased /s while holo and rampagemain and the main duo that dominate every competitive mode since PoF release its fine, lmao

[praqtos.9035]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

>Like the ammo recharge should go down to 15 seconds on recharge and the full mantra cooldown should be 40 seconds on recharge.

40 seconds ?!?!?!?! To save ths aids immob proc? Are you okay there?

> Mantra of Daze and Mantra of Pain should probably be turned into Projectiles with travel time as well, just to add some counterplay to the abilities.

Yes, sure, why bother interrupting close to instant skills, lets just make it slow moving projectile and make it 3 time worse than distracting daggers that has inbuild power block, 3 charges recharging automatically, you are genius ! /s

> Also I get the whole randomness is part of the flavor for Chaos themed skills, but randomly pulsing daze on Chaos Storm (Aegis too for that matter) is just too much high value randomness that this game was always trying to get away from.

Improvisation ?

 

 

[Snellibee.2761]

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > It's people like me that are trying to make PvP a more skilled and engaging environment and not a spamfest.

> And thats comes from biased REV main defending it in every thread about revs, trying to downplay their strength...?

> Out of ALL META braindead unskilled spammers you complain only about the mesmer... literally begging to nerf rev counter, clearly not biased /s while holo and rampagemain and the main duo that dominate every competitive mode since PoF release its fine, lmao

 

Every class counters rev in 1v1, rev isn't a 1v1 class it's a teamfighter

Also I can literally say the same about you because everywhere I've seen you you've been defending Mesmer so what does that say about you?

 

Also Rev is one of the hardest classes to play and one of the most engaging and skillfull, all experienced players agree with this. Sorry that I want your no brain spam buttons class to be balanced mate, go cry somewhere else

[Koen.1327]

> @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > It's people like me that are trying to make PvP a more skilled and engaging environment and not a spamfest.

> > And thats comes from biased REV main defending it in every thread about revs, trying to downplay their strength...?

> > Out of ALL META braindead unskilled spammers you complain only about the mesmer... literally begging to nerf rev counter, clearly not biased /s while holo and rampagemain and the main duo that dominate every competitive mode since PoF release its fine, lmao

>

> Every class counters rev in 1v1, rev isn't a 1v1 class it's a teamfighter

> Also I can literally say the same about you because everywhere I've seen you you've been defending Mesmer so what does that say about you?

>

> Also Rev is one of the hardest classes to play and one of the most engaging and skillfull, all experienced players agree with this. Sorry that I want your no brain spam buttons class to be balanced mate, go cry somewhere else

 

rev trashes daze mirages hard who have no mobility, stunbreak or stealth to even get away.

also not sure who said rev is the most engaging, hardest and skillful class to play when it's obviously not - i like the recent changes but rev is still pretty braindead and EASY to play. Nothing skillful about rotating into a favorable fight, *very important* close your eyes and press random buttons

 

seeing your post gets most thumbs up im all fine with nerfing "daze spam" to the ground but it won't make pvp more skilled and engaging

[praqtos.9035]

> @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > It's people like me that are trying to make PvP a more skilled and engaging environment and not a spamfest.

> > And thats comes from biased REV main defending it in every thread about revs, trying to downplay their strength...?

> > Out of ALL META braindead unskilled spammers you complain only about the mesmer... literally begging to nerf rev counter, clearly not biased /s while holo and rampagemain and the main duo that dominate every competitive mode since PoF release its fine, lmao

>

> Every class counters rev in 1v1, rev isn't a 1v1 class it's a teamfighter

Thats why Pain kept a capped point in 1x1 against tramadex on PURE 1x1 strenght rampage spellbreaker and killed him? Cant 1x1 ?! Teamfighter? He cant outnumber/roam now too?

> Also I can literally say the same about you because everywhere I've seen you you've been defending Mesmer so what does that say about you?

I defend its from misinformation and exaggerations, I'm one of these mesmer mains that want to see chaos interrupt burn

> Also Rev is one of the hardest classes to play and one of the most engaging and skillfull, all experienced players agree with this. Sorry that I want your no brain spam buttons class to be balanced mate, go cry somewhere else

AHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahaah

 

[Nath Forge Tempete.1645]

> @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> This is actually out of control, the amount of dazes mirage posesses is completely broken and utterly stupid to have in this game. You get stunned, you stunbreak, you instantly get stunned again and you're now not able to move or use a skill for the next 10 seconds. Theres literally nothing more annoying in this game than this. Fix it.

 

Dazes or stuns? not the same things mate. First try to point out what you are complaining about .

[bravan.3876]

> @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> I'm personally hoping the uptick in Power Mesmer over Condition Mesmers between the May Balance Patch and now resulted in Mantra of Distraction taking a hit coincidentally hitting the new CI Condi Mirages that have shown up the past couple of weeks. Condition Mirage is the only class I have ever seen in a game repeatedly get more powerful as it gets nerfed because it awakens people to more broken stuff in the kit that was being overlooked.

>

> Right now the Mantra Ammo Counts have a 24 second cooldown. If you spam and double cast the mantra rather than waiting on the ammo the cooldown for recharging the mantra is only 12 seconds to get both charges back, which also shaves 30s off of the Diversion the F3 Daze. So not only are you _not_ punished for using it as frequently as possible rather than saving it and waiting on the ammo, you're actually rewarded with more frequent dazes and cooldown reduction on Diversion if you use it off cooldown.

>

> That seems backwards to me. Like the ammo recharge should go down to 15 seconds on recharge and the full mantra cooldown should be 40 seconds on recharge. So if you're patient, if you time your interrupts better, you get more value out of them. But if you want to interrupt twice very frequently you have to pay for it with a higher cooldown to use interrupts again. And if face a mesmer and you see the two 2 mantra dazes done back to back you know they aren't going to be able to do so again for some time.

>

> Mantra of Daze and Mantra of Pain should probably be turned into Projectiles with travel time as well, just to add some counterplay to the abilities.

>

> Also I get the whole randomness is part of the flavor for Chaos themed skills, but randomly pulsing daze on Chaos Storm (Aegis too for that matter) is just too much high value randomness that this game was always trying to get away from.

 

Agree to the last part (with high value randomness we have too much in the game) but for everyhting else i am actually surprised this is coming from a mesmer player. With nerfing Mantra of Distraction into a non instant skill you pretty much delete the most reactive/ interactive and most skillbased playstyle a Powermes has. For an interrupt build that will have at least a chance of being viable you need instant range interrupts, otherwise you have to predict every move of your target when your own interrupt skills have casttime too. And that is not possible most of the time. Mantra of Distraction also is not the problem as long as traits don't turn it into a lock down (lock down stuff needs animation and casttime like warriors hammerskills, only a pure interrupt cc that can be dodged like daze is allowed to be instant, but CI destoys these balance by turning Mantra into an instant lock down). We even argued about how useless or not useless an interrupt build with only Power Block is. Nerfing Mantra of Distraction instead the actually overperforming traits that really cause the problems and turning Mantra into Opness would be a typical Anet low effort balance move on the wrong thing to let the traits live which are rly op by themself already.

 

1. The immobilize on Chaotic Interruption needs to get replaced by somehting else, maybe a blind which would fit into the defensive nature of the chaostraitline. It would still be annoying to fight against but not a lock down freekill on random spammed dazes anymore.

2. Also the mightstacks on CI have to go without any compensation, they don't fit into a defensive traitline at all. Anet has to learn that there needs to be remarkable opportunity costs in dmg for taking sustain (in particular passive sustain). Chaos and even Inspiration Mesmer still can have way to much dmg for the sustain they have. That is the problem for most classes, in particular side node bruiser.

3. Lost Time needs to only proc on Interrupt, should not be able to crit and (not necessary) one sec less slow uptime. Atm it is a way better Power Block without the need of an interrupt.

4. Mantra of Pain needs to be reworked into something else (or at least get cd on recharge and inbetween uses, also lower dmg and reduce the might stacks to 6 or delete them fully)

 

Mantra of Distraction will not be any problem anymore. As long as it can't be random spammed for op and low effort rewards with random interrupting autoattacks (CI) or even without any interrupt (Lost Time), when it is only rewarding enough when used on big skills, then it will be fine and has more than enough counterplay.

 

Sadly i guess it will still be Anet's way to just nerf the one utility instead doing needed changes to several traits, because it is easier to do and the average player hates on that one Mantra even though that is pretty unlogical and shortsighted. Nerfing it into a not instant skill will dumb down Powermesmer even more by deleting the most skillbased and reactive playstyle it has, without adressing the real issues. Not the first time this will happen...

 

Can we just merge all the nerf mesmer complain threads? It gets annoying to see a new one pop up every 3 days filled with the same complains over and over and the same counter arguments. In particular because none is leading anywhere and Anet will most likely do the wrong balance changes anyway. Only one thing got clear in these threads: The ppl who take more time to complain in forums instead learning how a class works and get some class- and gameknowledge before they start complaining so they can adress the right things, can't be convinced no matter how logical arguments are and how many ppl tell them. The easy way to make ppl happy is doing the changes the clueless masses crying for the loudest. Sadly that often also is the easiest way to balance and Anet seems to prefer easy over reasonable.

 

Or i just start to open complain threads about Holo, Soulbeast, FB, Weaver and so on... every 3 days one thread for each. Would be just as reasonable as for Condimesmer.

[Snellibee.2761]

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > > > @"Snellibee.2761" said:

> > > > It's people like me that are trying to make PvP a more skilled and engaging environment and not a spamfest.

> > > And thats comes from biased REV main defending it in every thread about revs, trying to downplay their strength...?

> > > Out of ALL META braindead unskilled spammers you complain only about the mesmer... literally begging to nerf rev counter, clearly not biased /s while holo and rampagemain and the main duo that dominate every competitive mode since PoF release its fine, lmao

> >

> > Every class counters rev in 1v1, rev isn't a 1v1 class it's a teamfighter

> Thats why Pain kept a capped point in 1x1 against tramadex on PURE 1x1 strenght rampage spellbreaker and killed him? Cant 1x1 ?! Teamfighter? He cant outnumber/roam now too?

> > Also I can literally say the same about you because everywhere I've seen you you've been defending Mesmer so what does that say about you?

> I defend its from misinformation and exaggerations, I'm one of these mesmer mains that want to see chaos interrupt burn

> > Also Rev is one of the hardest classes to play and one of the most engaging and skillfull, all experienced players agree with this. Sorry that I want your no brain spam buttons class to be balanced mate, go cry somewhere else

> AHAHAHAHAHAHahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahaah

>

 

I guess Trama fucked up bigtime because when I played against Pain in an AT he was a literally feeder and couldn't even 2v1 without dying. Also just because a class isn't a 1v1 class doesn't mean he can win 1v1s. Sindrener wins 1v1s as theif vs warrior. I guess Thief is broken duel spec and needs nerfing now right? Right?

 

I defend Rev from misinformation and exaggerations aswel, I want to see Deathstrike damage nerfed and Shiro F2 damage nerfed, these are the only broken skills on Rev. I defend against assumptioms trying to completely wipe the class by nerfing stuff that don't need nerfing.

 

If you don't think Rev is one of the hardest classes to play together with thief then theres no need to argue with you anymore, just shows the type of classes you're used to (button smashing) and your overall skillevel. Go play your mirage and spam buttons allowing you to win, use your skills that save you in situations you should die because you fucked up. As a rev I can't relate with any of these.

[ZhouX.8742]

Stow your weapon and bait rupts and don't mindlessly spam 4Headdddddddddddddddddddd

 

Nerf CI though

[viquing.8254]

> @"bravan.3876" said:

O /

Don't worry, I will not comment again the pro/cons CI etc discussed here : https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/964579

 

 

> 1. The immobilize on Chaotic Interruption needs to get replaced by somehting else, maybe a blind which would fit into the defensive nature of the chaostraitline. It would still be annoying to fight against but not a lock down freekill on random spammed dazes anymore.

> 2. Also the mightstacks on CI have to go without any compensation, they don't fit into a defensive traitline at all. Anet has to learn that there needs to be remarkable opportunity costs in dmg for taking sustain (in particular passive sustain). Chaos and even Inspiration Mesmer still can have way to much dmg for the sustain they have. That is the problem for most classes, in particular side node bruiser.

So what should happened if we do that is :

* mesmers switch to PU builds. -> New thread about perma stealth mesmers op.

* mesmers switch to full damage build like domi/duel/chrono or domi/duel/illusion or duel/illusion/mirage. -> Mesmer op burst/damage threads pop and classic mesmer too much condi threads still remain.

 

> 3. Lost Time needs to only proc on Interrupt, should not be able to crit and (not necessary) one sec less slow uptime. Atm it is a way better Power Block without the need of an interrupt.

Then welcome back to chronophantasma (literally the only one chrono GM traits used since chronorelease before the last Lost time rework.) or switch of chrono to other above dps builds. -> again mesmers too much dps, one shot threads still remains.

 

> 4. Mantra of Pain needs to be reworked into something else (or at least get cd on recharge and inbetween uses, also lower dmg and reduce the might stacks to 6 or delete them fully)

Actually I didn't see many mesmers running MoP dunno why it has issues but not a problem, rework it = switch back to other utility (saw Jazz with Illusion of Life for example or we can use another sustain utility.).

 

I mean you can nerf and nerf all you want, I can easily predict the next nerf thread chain because people will always cry. (And we still always find good reasons to nerf, skill subjective or not.)

 

[Vagrant.7206]

> @"praqtos.9035" said:

> > @"mortrialus.3062" said:

> >Like the ammo recharge should go down to 15 seconds on recharge and the full mantra cooldown should be 40 seconds on recharge.

> 40 seconds ?!?!?!?! To save ths aids immob proc? Are you okay there?

> > Mantra of Daze and Mantra of Pain should probably be turned into Projectiles with travel time as well, just to add some counterplay to the abilities.

> Yes, sure, why bother interrupting close to instant skills, lets just make it slow moving projectile and make it 3 time worse than distracting daggers that has inbuild power block, 3 charges recharging automatically, you are genius ! /s

> > Also I get the whole randomness is part of the flavor for Chaos themed skills, but randomly pulsing daze on Chaos Storm (Aegis too for that matter) is just too much high value randomness that this game was always trying to get away from.

> Improvisation ?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism

 

Learn it, love it, live it.

 

> @"ZhouX.8742" said:

> Stow your weapon and bait rupts and don't mindlessly spam 4Headdddddddddddddddddddd

>

> Nerf CI though

 

Dazes from mesmers are different from other interrupts because they last significantly longer. For example, compare to [headshot](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Headshot "headshot") on thief pistol offhand. The daze on that skill is 1/4 of a second, which serves as an interrupt, but doesn't prevent the enemy from taking actions. I'd be in favor of more of these kinds of interrupts than what we have now.

 

Obviously, with the right traits, thief steal can be a long-lasting daze too. Knockdowns, floats, launches, etc all act as interrupts as well, but often feature way less randomness when compared to mesmer dazes. Consider [Diversion](https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Diversion "Diversion") shatter -- it's a 1 second daze, but it can be upwards of 3s of daze depending on where the illusions/phantasms are when it's activated.

[bravan.3876]

> @"viquing.8254" said:

> > @"bravan.3876" said:

> O /

> Don't worry, I will not comment again the pro/cons CI etc discussed here : https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/964579

>

>

> > 1. The immobilize on Chaotic Interruption needs to get replaced by somehting else, maybe a blind which would fit into the defensive nature of the chaostraitline. It would still be annoying to fight against but not a lock down freekill on random spammed dazes anymore.

> > 2. Also the mightstacks on CI have to go without any compensation, they don't fit into a defensive traitline at all. Anet has to learn that there needs to be remarkable opportunity costs in dmg for taking sustain (in particular passive sustain). Chaos and even Inspiration Mesmer still can have way to much dmg for the sustain they have. That is the problem for most classes, in particular side node bruiser.

> So what should happened if we do that is :

> * mesmers switch to PU builds. -> New thread about perma stealth mesmers op.

> * mesmers switch to full damage build like domi/duel/chrono or domi/duel/illusion or duel/illusion/mirage. -> Mesmer op burst/damage threads pop and classic mesmer too much condi threads still remain.

>

> > 3. Lost Time needs to only proc on Interrupt, should not be able to crit and (not necessary) one sec less slow uptime. Atm it is a way better Power Block without the need of an interrupt.

> Then welcome back to chronophantasma (literally the only one chrono GM traits used since chronorelease before the last Lost time rework.) or switch of chrono to other above dps builds. -> again mesmers too much dps, one shot threads still remains.

>

> > 4. Mantra of Pain needs to be reworked into something else (or at least get cd on recharge and inbetween uses, also lower dmg and reduce the might stacks to 6 or delete them fully)

> Actually I didn't see many mesmers running MoP dunno why it has issues but not a problem, rework it = switch back to other utility (saw Jazz with Illusion of Life for example or we can use another sustain utility.).

>

> I mean you can nerf and nerf all you want, I can easily predict the next nerf thread chain because people will always cry. (And we still always find good reasons to nerf, skill subjective or not.)

>

 

It doesn't matter what ppl will cry about next for current balance suggestions and ofc there will always be low skilled ppl without any gameknowledge crying about Mesmer, no matter how bad it is. That doesn't mean i cannot address the really broken or low skill floor/ceiling stuff that exist and actually get used. The traits/skills i mentioned are clearly low effort high reward overperforming things need to get balanced. They are not the only ones, means some future complains will even make sense (like ofc PU is a noobcarrytrait too, if it will be viable in conquest is a different story). In the end as long as Chaos and Inspirationtraitline but also from other classes like Defensetraitline on warrior exist in the current state and as long as condis are so heavily wrong designed (like bursting with condis? where is the logic in that? not to mention i still can take more def stats during having that burst) ppl will find something they can get carried by.