shion.2084 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 I get frustrated when I earn 4+ top scores and am on the losing side and watch my rank slide. I mean if I score top kills, offence and defence.... it probably really ain't me that lost the game. It'd be really nice for you to lose no (or less) rank if you get some large subset of the top scores. And yes I see that you'd want to make sure it wasn't something like healing, revives, defence that was enough to grant this immunity to rank loss. I think if this happens Anet's match making algorithm should lose rank instead :) Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ollbirtan.2915 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 So you think that healing and revives are inferior to dps? Care to explain? I'm so curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 I think this is a stupid idea that’ll get abused by people farming stats and not trying to win the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 > @"ollbirtan.2915" said: > So you think that healing and revives are inferior to dps? Care to explain? I'm so curious. You wouldn't want duo queue where the alt account kept nose diving in order to spare the other guy rank loss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shion.2084 Posted July 30, 2019 Author Share Posted July 30, 2019 > @"phokus.8934" said: > I think this is a stupid idea that’ll get abused by people farming stats and not trying to win the game. If you can farm top kills, offence and defence and damage.... I'm all good with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phokus.8934 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 > @"shion.2084" said: > > @"phokus.8934" said: > > I think this is a stupid idea that’ll get abused by people farming stats and not trying to win the game. > > > If you can farm top kills, offence and defence and damage.... I'm all good with that. You’re not understanding that the top stats on a losing team means nothing. Stats in general mean very little when the point of the mode is to win. For example you can have someone just 1v1ing all day at a point and not get a kill and have too damage. There’s more in between there but if you can’t see why stats are not a good indicator on match performance then I’m not sure what else to tell you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArenaNet Staff Ben Phongluangtham.1065 Posted July 30, 2019 ArenaNet Staff Share Posted July 30, 2019 We're not likely to every alter the skill rating change formulas based on top stats. As others have noted, it would motivate bad behavior. People would chase top stats at all costs, even sacrificing the win to do so. Top stats are not always indicative on how much you helped your team and many important strategies may not net you any top stats at all. We do reward top stats by giving an extra pip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > We're not likely to every alter the skill rating change formulas based on top stats. As others have noted, it would motivate bad behavior. People would chase top stats at all costs, even sacrificing the win to do so. Top stats are not always indicative on how much you helped your team and many important strategies may not net you any top stats at all. > > We do reward top stats by giving an extra pip. Thanks Ben. I have to agree. The times when I synergize the most with my team are also the times when I get the fewest top stats. I get a bunch of top stats when my team and I don't jive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hesacon.8735 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > We're not likely to every alter the skill rating change formulas based on top stats. As others have noted, it would motivate bad behavior. People would chase top stats at all costs, even sacrificing the win to do so. Top stats are not always indicative on how much you helped your team and many important strategies may not net you any top stats at all. > > We do reward top stats by giving an extra pip. I feel like you could _scale_ rating changes in a logistic way for idle players, at least at the bottom end of the scale. My biggest gripe with spvp is if I play 10 matches, I feel like I get at least 1-2 partners who would rather idle at spawn than contribute. Either they are legitimately afk or have given up because the score is 200-100 (which is still winnable). The full rating loss is a big penalty for the other 4 players, when perhaps the idle player should lose most of the rating for the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorem.9157 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Maybe have some top stats that actually make sense then. I mean, it is not rocket science to reach this conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadowpass.4236 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"Sorem.9157" said: > Maybe have some top stats that actually make sense then. > > I mean, it is not rocket science to reach this conclusion. This. If top stats were actually reliable indicators of who is helping their team win, farming them would be a _good thing_. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/53443/new-scoreboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multicolorhipster.9751 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Top stats definitely wouldn't be the best way to determine rank gain/loss, but maybe taking into account personal performance would be. At the end of the game, there's a stat screen that shows healing, damage, kills, etc. Basically your entire contribution to the match. If someone were to contribute ~60% into their role, as well as others; wouldn't it make sense to reward those players more for their effort and skill? Similarly so, if someone were pulling say %0 or %10 in a role, wouldn't that indicate they aren't quite at the same skill level as their team and/or the enemy team? To me, that seems like just cause to reward the people doing better and actually trying, and punish the people doing worse, or not trying at all. Such a system would reward people putting in effort and skill by ensuring they lose slightly less rating for losses they tried to turn around, and win more for games they carry. On the opposite end people afking, disconnecting, or being carried would lose more for losses and gain less for wins. Of course, stats would have to be adjusted or even added to accommodate such a system, because; thieves would be pretty out of luck otherwise, and some other classes would be too in luck with being able to pull multiple top stats, and we can't be unfair to people getting matched against or with others hundreds of rating below or above themselves, but then again; that shouldn't really be a thing to begin with. Win/loss streaks should also play a part I think. Better than pure RNG based on people's ratings. I don't think people are going to be more inclined to lose just to bump up their stats either. In the end they still have to win to gain rating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master Ketsu.4569 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 The only time rating should be affected by accolades is when a player gets the combination of BOTH top offense AND top defense in the same match. Any other possible combination of top scores may or may not mean anything, but I've found it's impossible for a player to get both those two unless the rest of their team was basically doing jack all the entire time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crab Fear.1624 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 They should consider closer scores and lowering the rating loss a little. I mean does a game that goes 500-496 deserve the same loss in rating as a loss of 500-15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > They should consider closer scores and lowering the rating loss a little. > > I mean does a game that goes 500-496 deserve the same loss in rating as a loss of 500-15? > > This is more accurate than the top stats idea. Top stats have many flaws to be adressed before they could count for something like that. If you're consistently getting 3-4 top stats your winrate is prolly higher than 60%, and soon you will stop playing with this really bad ppl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyus.4610 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 You hardly get top stats on thief except offense, if the Match going that way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menyus.4610 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > They should consider closer scores and lowering the rating loss a little. > > I mean does a game that goes 500-496 deserve the same loss in rating as a loss of 500-15? > > This tho should ahve been implemented long ago, i hate it when i loose a game to 100-500 i loose -11 then i loose a game to 495-500 and -15 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bazooka.3590 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > We're not likely to every alter the skill rating change formulas based on top stats. As others have noted, it would motivate bad behavior. People would chase top stats at all costs, even sacrificing the win to do so. Top stats are not always indicative on how much you helped your team and many important strategies may not net you any top stats at all. > > We do reward top stats by giving an extra pip. Extra pip.... I'm sorry but LOL. Pvp is over of extra pips. It is in an end state. Soon there will be not enough player to launch a match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiden The Beast.3016 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > We're not likely to every alter the skill rating change formulas based on top stats. As others have noted, it would motivate bad behavior. People would chase top stats at all costs, even sacrificing the win to do so. Top stats are not always indicative on how much you helped your team and many important strategies may not net you any top stats at all. > > We do reward top stats by giving an extra pip. Why we have the Stats At all, if I remember correctly nobody ask for the Screen anyway, ... in the End a lot of people said the screen is somehow toxic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ParadoX.3124 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"Raiden The Beast.3016" said: > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > We're not likely to every alter the skill rating change formulas based on top stats. As others have noted, it would motivate bad behavior. People would chase top stats at all costs, even sacrificing the win to do so. Top stats are not always indicative on how much you helped your team and many important strategies may not net you any top stats at all. > > > > We do reward top stats by giving an extra pip. > > Why we have the Stats At all, if I remember correctly nobody ask for the Screen anyway, ... in the End a lot of people said the screen is somehow toxic. We asked for Ranking to be shown before and/or after the match. We still can't see Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiden The Beast.3016 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"ParadoX.3124" said: > > @"Raiden The Beast.3016" said: > > > @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065" said: > > > We're not likely to every alter the skill rating change formulas based on top stats. As others have noted, it would motivate bad behavior. People would chase top stats at all costs, even sacrificing the win to do so. Top stats are not always indicative on how much you helped your team and many important strategies may not net you any top stats at all. > > > > > > We do reward top stats by giving an extra pip. > > > > Why we have the Stats At all, if I remember correctly nobody ask for the Screen anyway, ... in the End a lot of people said the screen is somehow toxic. > > We asked for Ranking to be shown before and/or after the match. > We still can't see Correct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mbelch.9028 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Love a few of the points mentioned in this thread, including: * Rating loss should be tempered in some way -- whether that's through top stats that actually make sense and have been tested/proven to be accurate for real contributors. * Top stats, as mentioned above, should just make sense. Current "top stats" are more of an indicator of who played at far all game. They also give newbies fuel to say "well I have more stats than you so you suck! Hmmph!" * Removing/punishing idle players would improve things by A LOT. I can't count the number of times I get a player who just decides to jump around in the spawn after losing one engagement, or one player who just runs to far and dies in the same suspicious way all game, effectively making it a 4v5. What does Anet plan to do about real issues that plague the game mode? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khalisto.5780 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"Mbelch.9028" said: > Love a few of the points mentioned in this thread, including: > > * Rating loss should be tempered in some way -- whether that's through top stats that actually make sense and have been tested/proven to be accurate for real contributors. > * Top stats, as mentioned above, should just make sense. Current "top stats" are more of an indicator of who played at far all game. They also give newbies fuel to say "well I have more stats than you so you suck! Hmmph!" > * Removing/punishing idle players would improve things by A LOT. I can't count the number of times I get a player who just decides to jump around in the spawn after losing one engagement, or one player who just runs to far and dies in the same suspicious way all game, effectively making it a 4v5. > > What does Anet plan to do about real issues that plague the game mode? not much, I feel like pvp is like homework to anet, ou really don't want to do but you have to, then you just rush it to get it done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagrant.7206 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 > @"Crab Fear.1624" said: > They should consider closer scores and lowering the rating loss a little. > > I mean does a game that goes 500-496 deserve the same loss in rating as a loss of 500-15? > > I definitely agree with this. I think close matches should reduce rating loss, precisely because it shows that both teams played well, one just happened to play *slightly* better. Or got lucky. 500-499 should have minimal rating loss for the losers, while 500-0 should have a MASSIVE rating loss for the losers. This incentivizes working with your team and playing until the end. Win gains shouldn't change though IMO, because a win is a win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yanniell.1236 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Yep, rating loss should be looked at. I would suggest take into consideration the outcome of the match in addition to the average skill rating of the teams. If you are expected to lose, and you lose by a large margin, you should lose little rating. If you are expected to lose, and you lose by a small margin, you should lose even less rating, maybe even gain a little rating instead. That way, you address the population/blowouts matches issues and also give a reason for people to keep playing and trying instead of give up early on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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