Will GW2 survive as NCSoft's second least profitable title?

[Inculpatus cedo.9234]

> @"Zuldari.3940" said:

> I think the problem is marketing and appeal. I never see anything about gw2 they need to get their presence out there, and they need to change/add some things that will appeal to new players. They need a bigger presence at gaming and fantasy cons, now would be a great time to announce an expansion and really get the advertising out there. I dont understand why they barely promote the game, it makes it seem like they have no interest in expanding it, just keeping it where it is.

>

> Also do the people at arena net get free reign on their game? Because we all know the devil that corporations are over their game companies. Look no further than Bobby the devil Kotick lol

 

According to Mike O'Brien's statements in the past, ArenaNet does, pretty much, have 'free reign' on content/design decisions in Guild Wars 2.

Now, it may be different concerning other projects.

[Tiviana.2650]

> @"Zaklex.6308" said:

> > @"Cynder.2509" said:

> > In my opinion ArenaNet should get rid of NCSoft and make a partnership/deal with another company which is much fairer in this case. If all things go down I'd even say they should be bought by Blizzard even though that isn't the nicest company either but at least they're more stabilized in revenue matters so they won't have to rely on one studio making the money for them.

>

> Next to impossible to do since NCSoft owns ArenaNet, unless someone with very deep pockets offered NCSoft a boat load of money to take the company off their hands, and it would have to be a significant boat load of money in order for NCSoft to make up for the loss in revenue that would have their shareholders jumping down the boards throats.

>

> Still, this is the only game ArenaNet makes, there's nothing else to replace it should NCSoft decide for what ever stupid reason to shut down GW2(or more likely put it in maintenance mode like GW1).

 

Blizzard could do that, but i doubt they want another MMO either, seems like game companies are moving away from mmos. They found they can make boatloads of money on mobile with little invested. Unless they pull the plug on lootboxes then they will forgo mobile too.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Faline.8795" said:

> Is NCSoft willing to give up profit just to have a virtual presence in the West?

 

It's the opposite, NCSoft is making profit in the West so why would they stop their projects that are making profit?

Guild Wars 2 is their highest profit maker, the other 3 games are not performing very well.

 

Your post is like asking why is Activision-Blizzard still releasing expansions for World of Warcraft and why they keep their servers running, since Candy Crash makes about $100 million more money than Blizzard, which includes all Blizzard IPs, not just WoW, which means Starcraft, Diablo AND Overwatch included.

Why do they keep the less profitable games going?

 

As long as games make profit, even if it's smaller than other games they will continue existing, because they apply to different players.

[Thornwolf.9721]

1. Guild wars 2 is obscure at best, no one really talks about this game anymore. We don't get good marketing and we don't get much in the way of trailers to try and hook new players.

2. We are in a slight content drought

3. nothing much has changed, the game is the same despite the expansions.

4. cosmetics are lousy

5. Our races are kind of lack lust in the way of WOW factor

6. classes are a mess right now

7. The game has no direction, its a jack of all trades and a master of none. It also caters heavily to the casual audience so there are players out there disinterested

8. people are more educated on gaming now, they look up how the game is doing and if its worth getting into before coming over. With how the game is now (If I were new, looking to get in) Id say nah to guild wars 2. With all the negativity everywhere and how the community is, id be turned off by that and how the game handles specific things. Its the nature of the beast.

9. We have nothing really new and awe inspiring

10. Competitive play is a joke, and has been dead for years now. We have literally no pvp or wvw competitions and nothing to really drag in the competitive crowd, and raids are meh at best. Doesn't help the story messed up the lore from the first game and has little respect for their source material anymore, this makes following or keeping track of it pointless.

[Amineo.8951]

Worst case scneario: They pull a FFXV and cancel everything after LS Season 5, ending GW2 life immediately but reveal GW3 aswell at the same time.

 

Honestly I think they should release GW3 for the next generation.

[Diesel Stelar.3709]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> 1. Guild wars 2 is obscure at best, no one really talks about this game anymore. We don't get good marketing and we don't get much in the way of trailers to try and hook new players.

....

 

I completely agree. I've played GW1 competitive mode since Factions and the game was pretty lively until the end with decent dungeons added later on, but what GW1 GvG was in the MMORPG genre I don't know if any other game could best.

 

The content drought is serious. The game has been out for 7 years and has 1 new class. I get it, the balancing of new classes will create serious problems and turmoil, but if you don't even try to refreshen the core gameplay why even bother supporting the game.

The HoT map content and mechanics were amazing and revolutionising the way you interact with the map in a mmo game, but after that it's been all downhill. PoF content is bland and not appealing to repeat, which is why the maps stay nearly empty. The living stories are great for the first... couple of days of their release, after that they are empty. I completed my story when the beetle mount was released, but couldn't bother at the time with the mount itself. A few weeks later, I can't find anyone on party search doing the bounty quest so I gave up. And let's face it, after each episode the previous maps are being abandoned.

 

Truth is the majority of GW 1 playerbase was pvp oriented and they felt kicked in the bollocks with how gutted pvp in GW2 is. The PvE aspect is way better than GW1, but with the lowest skill and content cealing I've seen in a mmorpg game of this scale. So neglected and gutted pvp with low ceiling on pve equals....GW2. I didn't back in 2012/13 and still don't get why they took a 180 degree turn from the pvp aspect, why compete with the true king of west pve mmorpg in WoW (and I say it with prolly 10 hours of WoW gameplay), when you can be the dominant pvp mmorpg. Anet made a really poor analysis on the future of the genre and game scene and they are paying the price for their choices. Right now there could've been more than 50k viewers on twitch and major tournaments, bringing revenue if the game was the pvp from the original game and upgraded pve. Instead the peak viewership gets MightyTeapot on balance changes streams with 400-500 viewers on average and ingame constant decreasing population.

 

I personally don't think there's anything to salvage, the game is pretty much on autopilot with a living story team and mmorpg is long dead compared to other genres to even bother investing in a major overhaul.

In conclusion GW 1 was ahead of its time and GW2 is late to the party.

 

 

[EmmetOtter.8542]

> @"Faline.8795" said:

> I stated an economic fact (GW2 is the second-lowest revenue producer), a business fact (why spend money on a low-profit venture when you can spend it on a high-profit venture) and then asked a question based on those facts.

Profits=Revenue-Expenses

That's a fact

Only Revenue was reported by game. Neither Profits nor Expenses were reported by game. That's also a fact.

 

Your statement was fiction.

[Schwarzwald.9078]

> @"Randulf.7614" said:

> If Anarchy Online can survive 18 years with a handful of players and no major content for just about 15 years, I feel pretty confident GW2 will be fine

>

>

 

I'd be too, but this is NCSoft. They've shut down other famous MMOs instead of pleasing the remaining fanbase. I think the top management at NCSoft would rather move on to their Next Big Thing rather than spend the administrative cost of having to delegate and work with a "maintenance" crew for their titles that are not as successful as they want them to be. The idea is, they'd rather have you move to another of their MMOs where they spend the same amount to develop gem store type content but receive a far greater profit out of it due to the higher player base that's interested and them coming over into completely clean accounts that will require "sprucing" up with those purchases. Guild Wars 2 is also their last major Western developer, they've killed off all the others (correct me if I'm wrong), and NCSoft seems to be shifting to having more control over their IP and shifting it closer to home.

 

NCSoft doesn't seem to want independent sources of revenue that could potentially affect the shift of players into their newer titles, a flawed logic since this is already going to happen in today's saturated gaming market. Yet this sort of logic still makes the rounds at the executive marketing level. NCSoft has admitted they are interested in and are working on developing a Guild Wars mobile title, so I think we have until such a title is released and its potential failure before we have to worry about ArenaNet getting closed down. They aren't going to kill off IP that could potentially negatively affect new IP in development.

 

All I can say is that if Guild Wars 2 closes, this will be the last NCSoft related MMO I ever become interested in. ArenaNet still manages to do a great job, even after all this time, and I hope NCSoft recognizes that. I'm glad I've had the opportunity to come back to it, enjoy it, and contribute to its longevity financially and through participation.

[Opopanax.1803]

They are doing fine. Their other projects are still in the works, albeit with set back timelines.

 

I'm looking forward to what Anet does next.

[SkyShroud.2865]

Ncsoft has a precedent on shutting game that was not making a loss, inorder to free resources to invest in other things. It is complete reasonable thing to do in business, business isn't charity. However, it also important to note that anet does nothing but guild wars franchise so Ncsoft is unlikely to shut it down.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"SkyShroud.2865" said:

> Ncsoft has a precedent on shutting game that was not making a loss, inorder to free resources to invest in other things. It is complete reasonable thing to do in business, business isn't charity. However, it also important to note that anet does nothing but guild wars franchise so Ncsoft is unlikely to shut it down.

 

How do you know those cancelled games were profitable?

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> They are doing fine. Their other projects are still in the works, albeit with set back timelines.

>

> I'm looking forward to what Anet does next.

 

no NCsoft closed their other projects down, and want them to double down on GW2 there is no other games in development. This is all they have for the foreseeable future and that is why we are worried. To top it off all the funds GW2 made went to these now discarded projects, so its not as though the money went to guild wars 2 at all really and it was used as the "Funding" for their other now failed ideas. (No disrespect meant.)

[sigur.9453]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > They are doing fine. Their other projects are still in the works, albeit with set back timelines.

> >

> > I'm looking forward to what Anet does next.

>

> no NCsoft closed their other projects down, and want them to double down on GW2 there is no other games in development. This is all they have for the foreseeable future and that is why we are worried. To top it off all the funds GW2 made went to these now discarded projects, so its not as though the money went to guild wars 2 at all really and it was used as the "Funding" for their other now failed ideas. (No disrespect meant.)

 

All we know is that they put 2 Projects on Ice, which does NOT mean that anet isn´t working on anything else atm and does NOT mean that the want them to focus on gw2 soley. (its a nice PR spin though) Their current hiring strategies leave some room for speculation.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > > They are doing fine. Their other projects are still in the works, albeit with set back timelines.

> > >

> > > I'm looking forward to what Anet does next.

> >

> > no NCsoft closed their other projects down, and want them to double down on GW2 there is no other games in development. This is all they have for the foreseeable future and that is why we are worried. To top it off all the funds GW2 made went to these now discarded projects, so its not as though the money went to guild wars 2 at all really and it was used as the "Funding" for their other now failed ideas. (No disrespect meant.)

>

> All we know is that they put 2 Projects on Ice, which does NOT mean that anet isn´t working on anything else atm and does NOT mean that the want them to focus on gw2 soley. (its a nice PR spin though) Their current hiring strategies leave some room for speculation.

 

See the issue with this is, even if it is something new their name is not in the lime light nor does anyone care. For example they could announce guild wars 3 tomorrow and Id not touch it with a thirty foot pole. Mainly because Id want to see it when it comes out and let others get in and see if its worth playing; I don't trust A-net and as far as we know they are mobile projects (Ew.) Which are trash anyhow. The last thing this company needs is a PR blunder like diablo immortal to come crashing in and make things a million times worse.

[sigur.9453]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > > > They are doing fine. Their other projects are still in the works, albeit with set back timelines.

> > > >

> > > > I'm looking forward to what Anet does next.

> > >

> > > no NCsoft closed their other projects down, and want them to double down on GW2 there is no other games in development. This is all they have for the foreseeable future and that is why we are worried. To top it off all the funds GW2 made went to these now discarded projects, so its not as though the money went to guild wars 2 at all really and it was used as the "Funding" for their other now failed ideas. (No disrespect meant.)

> >

> > All we know is that they put 2 Projects on Ice, which does NOT mean that anet isn´t working on anything else atm and does NOT mean that the want them to focus on gw2 soley. (its a nice PR spin though) Their current hiring strategies leave some room for speculation.

>

> See the issue with this is, even if it is something new their name is not in the lime light nor does anyone care. For example they could announce guild wars 3 tomorrow and Id not touch it with a thirty foot pole. Mainly because Id want to see it when it comes out and let others get in and see if its worth playing; I don't trust A-net and as far as we know they are mobile projects (Ew.) Which are trash anyhow. The last thing this company needs is a PR blunder like diablo immortal to come crashing in and make things a million times worse.

 

yeah, i can agree on that. even though i would be interested in a possible gw3, i won´t buy it if they stick to their "surprise release" strategy. they lost that trust after the "content heavy" expansion. a mobile could work (i also think mobile games are trash) if the announce it with another big thing (exp,whatsoever,..) but as you said correctly, almost nobody outside the community is interested in the brand anyway. (compared to the big ip´s), so it would only hurt the current playerbase if it turns into a debacle.

[Opopanax.1803]

> @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > They are doing fine. Their other projects are still in the works, albeit with set back timelines.

> >

> > I'm looking forward to what Anet does next.

>

> no NCsoft closed their other projects down, and want them to double down on GW2 there is no other games in development. This is all they have for the foreseeable future and that is why we are worried. To top it off all the funds GW2 made went to these now discarded projects, so its not as though the money went to guild wars 2 at all really and it was used as the "Funding" for their other now failed ideas. (No disrespect meant.)

 

If you read some recent news with what mike o rien had said, it was that the projects were set back, not shuttered. Maybe they dis shutter 1, but certainly not all from a recent comment.

[Thornwolf.9721]

> @"sigur.9453" said:

> > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > @"sigur.9453" said:

> > > > @"Thornwolf.9721" said:

> > > > > @"Opopanax.1803" said:

> > > > > They are doing fine. Their other projects are still in the works, albeit with set back timelines.

> > > > >

> > > > > I'm looking forward to what Anet does next.

> > > >

> > > > no NCsoft closed their other projects down, and want them to double down on GW2 there is no other games in development. This is all they have for the foreseeable future and that is why we are worried. To top it off all the funds GW2 made went to these now discarded projects, so its not as though the money went to guild wars 2 at all really and it was used as the "Funding" for their other now failed ideas. (No disrespect meant.)

> > >

> > > All we know is that they put 2 Projects on Ice, which does NOT mean that anet isn´t working on anything else atm and does NOT mean that the want them to focus on gw2 soley. (its a nice PR spin though) Their current hiring strategies leave some room for speculation.

> >

> > See the issue with this is, even if it is something new their name is not in the lime light nor does anyone care. For example they could announce guild wars 3 tomorrow and Id not touch it with a thirty foot pole. Mainly because Id want to see it when it comes out and let others get in and see if its worth playing; I don't trust A-net and as far as we know they are mobile projects (Ew.) Which are trash anyhow. The last thing this company needs is a PR blunder like diablo immortal to come crashing in and make things a million times worse.

>

> yeah, i can agree on that. even though i would be interested in a possible gw3, i won´t buy it if they stick to their "surprise release" strategy. they lost that trust after the "content heavy" expansion. a mobile could work (i also think mobile games are trash) if the announce it with another big thing (exp,whatsoever,..) but as you said correctly, almost nobody outside the community is interested in the brand anyway. (compared to the big ip´s), so it would only hurt the current playerbase if it turns into a debacle.

 

Honestly that is what im worried about the most, I love this game and this franchise and grew up with it. I don't want what happened to warhammer online to happen here. A mobile title would be good later on but right now fixing this game is what matters, because this game would be here long after the mobile one crashes and burns now if they announced a Pollymock mobile, or a guild chat mobile? Id be down with that. But a fully fledged game? Nah. I don't see mobile as gaming I see it as cash grabbing and that is the way a lot of gamers feel. As for Guild wars 3 Id want them to bring back the trinity, and take the best of both GW1 and GW2 and put them together and I doubt they would do that because the A-net of today is not the A-net of Gw1.

 

Despite all my gripes and criticism I love this game, and I want A-net to succeed. I am worried and I might be a bit harsh on them at times; But it is because I know this can be better and I believe in them fully to do so. Im just tired of being disappointed...

[Obtena.7952]

> @"Ben K.6238" said:

> Shutting down all your products except for a small handful that make the most money is not always a good way of doing business; the customers that don't pay as much are still customers and are still paying. Until you're operating at a loss it's always better to have them than not to.

 

While this is true ... NCSoft dumped Tabula Rasa and IIRC, it was profitable.

[Faline.8795]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Faline.8795" said:

> > Is NCSoft willing to give up profit just to have a virtual presence in the West?

>

> It's the opposite, NCSoft is making profit in the West so why would they stop their projects that are making profit?

 

How do you know that? How do you know that they aren't breaking even or even posting a loss?

 

> Guild Wars 2 is their highest profit maker, the other 3 games are not performing very well.

 

How do you know that, too?

 

> Your post is like asking why is Activision-Blizzard still releasing expansions for World of Warcraft and why they keep their servers running, since Candy Crash makes about

> $100 million more money than Blizzard, which includes all Blizzard IPs, not just WoW, which means Starcraft, Diablo AND Overwatch included.

> Why do they keep the less profitable games going?

>

> As long as games make profit, even if it's smaller than other games they will continue existing, because they apply to different players.

 

Well, yes and no. You do bring up very valid points, but there are answers to your questions.

 

First, killing a game sends a bad message. Keeping a title around will draw people to other titles.

 

So there is reason to keep a low-performing title around. As I said in a previous post, there are such things as "loss leaders."

 

But also there comes a point where resources are best used elsewhere. Since you brought up World of Warcraft, there is always a healthy worry over there about how much longer Blizz is going to put up with WoW, giving how much it costs to develop new stuff.

 

But if we really went the route of "any profit is good profit," Wildstar would still be around.

 

Someone, somewhere, has drawn a line in the accounting sand.

 

I know it sounds like it, but I am not trying to be doom and gloom. And I find it interesting that WoW seems to have a large chorus of people who are continually talking about its demise, while both GW2 and FF14 are the opposite. People want WoW to crash and burn while people want GW2 to continue and grow. Talk about different audiences!

 

I'm just questioning an economic reality.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Obtena.7952" said:

> While this is true ... NCSoft dumped Tabula Rasa and IIRC, it was profitable.

 

Not sure about profitable but in the quarter before Tabula Rasa was cancelled, Q4 2008, it was in the "Other" category of NCSoft and that category only had 1484 million krw in revenue. City of Heroes was shut down at 3435 million krw quarterly revenue. This is of course revenue, not profit, but in any case the numbers were very low and I think Guild Wars 2 is way too far away from reaching either of those low points.

[Obtena.7952]

> @"maddoctor.2738" said:

> > @"Obtena.7952" said:

> > While this is true ... NCSoft dumped Tabula Rasa and IIRC, it was profitable.

>

> Not sure about profitable but in the quarter before Tabula Rasa was cancelled, Q4 2008, it was in the "Other" category of NCSoft and that category only had 1484 million krw in revenue. City of Heroes was shut down at 3435 million krw quarterly revenue. This is of course revenue, not profit, but in any case the numbers were very low and I think Guild Wars 2 is way too far away from reaching either of those low points.

 

Fair enough .. it was a while back. What I do know ... no one should assume a game wouldn't shut down because it's profitable. There are thresholds that need to be met as well.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"Faline.8795" said:

> How do you know that, too?

 

To quote myself:

> NA/EU revenue is at 25192. Guild Wars 2 revenue, which is ONLY released in NA/EU is at 15882. All the other games combined reached 9310 in revenue, which is far less than what Guild Wars 2 made. If games need to shut down due to revenue it's Blade and Soul, Aion and Lineage II in the West, all combined have much lower revenue than Guild Wars 2.

 

Individually the other 3 games have 3.1k on average... 1/5th of what Guild Wars 2 makes.

 

> But if we really went the route of "any profit is good profit," Wildstar would still be around.

 

Wildstar wasn't making profit, it barely got above 5k in revenue. To quote myself again:

> Not sure about profitable but in the quarter before Tabula Rasa was cancelled, Q4 2008, it was in the "Other" category of NCSoft and that category only had 1484 million krw in revenue. City of Heroes was shut down at 3435 million krw quarterly revenue. This is of course revenue, not profit, but in any case the numbers were very low and I think Guild Wars 2 is way too far away from reaching either of those low points.

 

NCSoft has cancelled titles that were in the ~3k area of revenue. Guild Wars 2 is making 5 times that so at least for now we should be safe. It would be unreasonable to shut down a high earner like that. Games that reach under 5k and never recover are those in danger of being shut down.

[ElvenBlades.8017]

As someone who just started the game and is having a really good time playing and exploring. This is really scary to think about. I don't want GW2 to go away. :(

[Trise.2865]

Short answer: Yes.

[maddoctor.2738]

> @"ElvenBlades.8017" said:

> As someone who just started the game and is having a really good time playing and exploring. This is really scary to think about. I don't want GW2 to go away. :(

 

It won't go away. NCSoft only cancels titles that perform under 2-4k in Revenue, Guild Wars 2 is stable at 15k. There is nothing to worry about